On the Carnival message board, we are having an intresting discussion concerning the wearing of jeans on formal night. On HAL that does not seem to be a problem. Perhaps the company will allow the excessively casual "party animal" crowd have Carnival, while keeping Holland America ships a little bit more classy. Don't get me wrong, I have sailed on both and LOVED both lines. However, things such as R-rated comedy turned me away from Carnival. When i sailed HAL, all the shows were classy and the CCL's "good" crowd was there while the crassy crowd stayed on CCL.