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  #61 (permalink)  
Old December 22nd, 2005, 01:10 PM
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Default Hi there Dave!

i was born and brought up in Springfield, moved to Palmer(Bondsville actually) when i got married, know the Amherst/Hadley area very well.
Still see those trucks all over the area!
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old December 22nd, 2005, 02:25 PM
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I just got off the Dawn Princess about a month ago and I was happy to see that aboard this ship dress code seemed to be a non-issue. I had not packed any formal clothes because my family usually chooses to eat at the buffet on formal night. However, at the last minute (7:00pm on the first formal night) my sister and mom decided that they really wanted to keep our standing reservations at the personal choice dining room for that evening even though my dad and I didn't have formal wear.

I wore the nicest outfit that I had with me, which was just a pair of black slacks and a button-down blouse with black loafers. My dad wore black dockers with a casual-style button-down collared shirt and black sneakers. I'm not the type who likes to stand out in a crowd (and neither is dad) so I was really dreading the dinner, but found it to be completely not a big deal. No one seemed to give us so much as a second glance and their were others dressed similarly (or worse). I'm fairly certain that my appearance didn't ruined anyone's dinner.

When I first started cruising 15 years ago, I know I would have never been able to go to formal night in casual attire (even dressy casual) without feeling completely out of place. I, for one, am glad that the cruiselines have backed down on enforcing the dress codes and that the passengers themselves have become more relaxed about attire.

After seeing how easy it was to go completely casual on the Dawn Princess, I will never again forego lobster night to eat at the buffet!
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Old December 22nd, 2005, 05:50 PM
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While I understand that there are a number of folks that do not wish to dress up on formal nights and I would not want to force someone to do so but I am very much in favor of having a dress code in the main dining room, and yes that is on formal nights as well. You do not have to spend a fortune on fany duds but wearing at least a sports coat should be the minimum. All others should have the option of dining on the same food but in a less formal setting on the Lido deck if they choose. Nobody is going hungry or restricted to the good food simply because they do not want to dress in the requested fashion. If they were I would be against the dress code as well. This is not the case however and it is only on one or two nights so allow the rest of us the pleasure of dressing to dine with our loved ones in a formal setting.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old December 23rd, 2005, 09:38 AM
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that is my point exactly Jim, that is what i have been saying all along. The cruise line gives you CHOICES!!! so there is no excuse for not dressing up on formal nights in the MAIN DINING ROOM, and if you choose to ignore the dress code be prepared to be turned away at the door.
All we have been saying is that there are those of us who CHOOSE to dine formally and we would appreciate that you respect our wishes, as we extend the same courtesy to you.
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Old December 23rd, 2005, 10:33 AM
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But the cruiselines do not give equivalent choices. For years I avoided formal night by dining at the buffet and I didn't know what I was missing until my last cruise. I'm sorry, buffet food is just not equivalent to steak and lobster. And when you're traveling with many young children, as my family does, serving yourself (and them) at a buffet is not an attractive option (way too much work for a vacation!).

I'm not sure how badly you would have to be dressed to be turned away, but my guess is it would have to be pretty bad. I know on the Dawn Princess, my dressy casual did not even warrant so much as a second glance from any of the staff who greeted us just as pleasantly as they did others who were dressed formally.
If the cruiseline wishes to turn me away at the door, that is their right and I will accept that, but I will no longer self-relegate myself to the buffet based upon what other passengers may think of my attire (which, by the way, didn't seem to be an issue on the Dawn as nobody else seemed to care what I was wearing).
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Old December 23rd, 2005, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAsailor
But the cruiselines do not give equivalent choices. For years I avoided formal night by dining at the buffet and I didn't know what I was missing until my last cruise. I'm sorry, buffet food is just not equivalent to steak and lobster. And when you're traveling with many young children, as my family does, serving yourself (and them) at a buffet is not an attractive option (way too much work for a vacation!).

I'm not sure how badly you would have to be dressed to be turned away, but my guess is it would have to be pretty bad. I know on the Dawn Princess, my dressy casual did not even warrant so much as a second glance from any of the staff who greeted us just as pleasantly as they did others who were dressed formally.
If the cruiseline wishes to turn me away at the door, that is their right and I will accept that, but I will no longer self-relegate myself to the buffet based upon what other passengers may think of my attire (which, by the way, didn't seem to be an issue on the Dawn as nobody else seemed to care what I was wearing).
There is room service and for the most part the room service menu is the same as the dinningroom-so order the lobster and eat it on your balcony-if you do not care to dress- and I mean by dress by not showing up in blue jeans or shorts on formal night. I am not going to get bent out of shape if a man just comes in dress slacks and a shirt and tie minus the blazer-at least HE made an attempt-what I dislike if those who do not even dress what would be the proper dresscode for a casual dinner.
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Old December 23rd, 2005, 02:54 PM
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The examples you cite, while interesting, are not quite on the same level as what is being discussed. These are behaviors that would be found offensive by ANYONE, at ANYTIME and in ANYPLACE. Not quite the same thing as dressing nicely, but not formally, on formal night.

If my wearing a dressy casual outfit on formal night somehow offends your sensibilities and lessons your enjoyment of the cruise than I am truly sorry, however, it is not my responsibility to make you happy or ensure that you have a nice cruise. I have my own family to worry about. How I dress is a personal decision and I consider my only obligation to other cruisers is to dress in a way that is neat, clean, and covers appropriate body parts. That I do on every night of the cruise.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old December 23rd, 2005, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by momofmeg
and I mean by dress by not showing up in blue jeans or shorts on formal night. I am not going to get bent out of shape if a man just comes in dress slacks and a shirt and tie minus the blazer-at least HE made an attempt-what I dislike if those who do not even dress what would be the proper dresscode for a casual dinner.
This I agree with completely!
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Old December 27th, 2005, 11:54 AM
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The point that we have been trying to make is that FORMAL dress, means FORMAL dress, nothing more nothing less, the cruise lines even give you a description of what FORMAL dress entails, and there is a growing group of cruisers who wish that the cruise lines would enforce the dress codes on all nights, not just on formal night.
Just because someone gets away with dressing casual/nice for formal night and the cruise line doesn't do anything about it, doesn't make it the right thing to do. I use the example - would you show up at your best-friends evening church wedding if the invitation stated formal dress requested and the reception was at the local country club or fine hotel ,in a pair of khakis and a polo shirt if you are a man, or if you are a woman would you show up in a pair of casual pants and a blouse? I would certainly hope not, i would hope that you would make the effort to dress correctly out of deference and respect to your hosts - SAME GOES FOR A CRUISE.
What Dave said - what is so difficult about throwing on a dressy-dress,(it doesn't have to be a gown anymore) a nice pair of heels, and some jewelry if you a woman, and guys, what is so hard about putting on a pair of dress pants, a nice shirt/tie, dress shoes and a suit coat??
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old December 27th, 2005, 01:24 PM
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Default Hey Lisa

Apparently I'm being deleted for calling people names and disagreeing with posters. Last two or three posts.

Jim very clearly spelled out that this is a suggestion box to hopefully be picked up by the cruiselines. Here are some suggestions.

FASHION POLICE: If a guest IS NOT dressed appropriately they SHOULD be turned away from the dining room. This includes children. Someone who is not dresses correctly is a distraction, like having an orange in a bucket of apples. Dress code SHOULD BE ENFORCED . ( The only exception would be a passenger whos luggage was lost or misplaced by THE CRUISELINE and thus has no access to their personal belongings due to ship err. The line SHOULD do their best to accomodate the pax with appropriate wear).

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  #71 (permalink)  
Old December 27th, 2005, 06:34 PM
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Now that Dave I agree with and have supported in my own views. If you have a dress code then it should be enforced. I understand that no business wants to anger a customer but with the options available and the codes clearly stated then they should be followed except in case of emergencies such as lost luggage. If they do not wish to enforce the dress code, then simply do not make it or relax it and then enforce it. I personally have not problems with the current codes and would like them kept to the current standard and enforced. On the up side, some Maitre D's have posted signes outside the dining room and do enforce the code and on those ships I have heard some people that are very thankful for this action.
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old December 28th, 2005, 10:38 AM
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Default Thank-you Jim and Dave!

for helping me to steer this back onto topic. its amazing how the thread can just go off and create a life of its own!
Dave, i know from reading some of your previous posts that you have very strong opinions,and that is great! it makes for lively comments, however; sometimes in the "heat of the moment" we say things that we regret later those comments are things can get your posts deleted. We value everyone's opinions, we can agree or disagree which is great, but we need to keep it civil
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old December 29th, 2005, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAsailor
The examples you cite, while interesting, are not quite on the same level as what is being discussed. These are behaviors that would be found offensive by ANYONE, at ANYTIME and in ANYPLACE. Not quite the same thing as dressing nicely, but not formally, on formal night.

If my wearing a dressy casual outfit on formal night somehow offends your sensibilities and lessons your enjoyment of the cruise than I am truly sorry, however, it is not my responsibility to make you happy or ensure that you have a nice cruise. I have my own family to worry about. How I dress is a personal decision and I consider my only obligation to other cruisers is to dress in a way that is neat, clean, and covers appropriate body parts. That I do on every night of the cruise.
What you are describing as dress is pretty much what I am now seeing on Carnival and Royal Caribbean. A considerable amount of people do not dress up to code on formal night-I reaaly have no objection to a man wearing a shirt and tie and not a jacket or a woman in a nice pantsuit or dress instead of a formal gown-but I do hate those that come in blue jeans or shorts-that is not even approiate on casual nights as far as I am concerned.

Then there was one cruise I was on where table close to us-a whole family from Grandma, mom and dad, teenage son and preteen daughter-who not only wore jeans but wore sloppy old looking stuff-the kind of things most us would wear scrubbing floors, painting the house, doing yard work etc.

They were also dirty, sweaty looking-hair not combed, oily hair etc. and had an odor to them also. I was really sickened by those people.

I feel those people are a prime example why there should be rules on dress and why people should not be allowed in the dinningroom at some point-after all who wants to sit near dirty, smelly, sweaty people? I did not.

I know there was one post here that said they wanted to get a lawyer and sue for their rights not to dress for dinner. Well maybe I should have sued for the right to have not to smell and look at stinky people at my dinner. What do you guys think?
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old December 29th, 2005, 07:32 PM
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Default Back to the original intent here

Hi,
I've enjoyed this debate over enforcement of dress codes. Perhaps we should just all go naked? A naked cruise to the Carribean! Or clothing optional?! Okay calm down, gentlemen can wear a tie and ladies their pearls.

I agree that there should be a casual seating and elegante seating choices -- just like smoking and non-smoking sections of resturants in some states. I agree that a passenger should be able to have steak and lobster without having to play dress up.

I would like the art auctions to be better highlighted. There needs to be a greater generousity with the champaign flow -- to benefit not only the attendees but for increased sales. I believe they go hand-in-hand.

I'd like enforcement of the kid pools vs adult pools. I'm sure I'm not the only one that avoids the pools because the kids have taken over -- yelling, splashing and peeing in the pools. Go on a Disney cruise if you have children. PLEASE!

I'd like the ships to balance out age groups better. I'm 45, but it seems that most others are over 60.

I'd like an all inclusive ship that doesn't charge $8. per drink.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old December 30th, 2005, 11:01 AM
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happybliss, i think that there are quite a few cruisers who totally agree with you. It seems so simple, one has to wonder why the cruise lines are so afraid to enforce their own policies?
The Maitre D has the right to turn away any passenger who blatanly disregards the dress code for the evening, stand behind your Maitre D cruise lines!
My suggestion for formal night dilema; turn one dining room into a by reservation/request only formal dress required for that evening. I think that the meal should be special as an added incentive. Expect the Maitre D to turn you away if you are not dressed accordingly.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old December 31st, 2005, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaK
I use the example - would you show up at your best-friends evening church wedding if the invitation stated formal dress requested and the reception was at the local country club or fine hotel ,in a pair of khakis and a polo shirt if you are a man, or if you are a woman would you show up in a pair of casual pants and a blouse? I would certainly hope not, i would hope that you would make the effort to dress correctly out of deference and respect to your hosts - SAME GOES FOR A CRUISE.
What Dave said - what is so difficult about throwing on a dressy-dress,(it doesn't have to be a gown anymore) a nice pair of heels, and some jewelry if you a woman, and guys, what is so hard about putting on a pair of dress pants, a nice shirt/tie, dress shoes and a suit coat??
On another messageboard a person posted that very thing happened(your example)- she said she went to a formal evening upscale wedding in a large church (catheral) and that people showed up in halter tops and cut off shorts.

I too have seen similiar things. We like to go to the symphony once or twice a year-twenty years ago some women would being wearing mink stoles and evening gowns and their men in tuxes-hubby and I always felt underdressed with me in a nice dress and him in a suit.

Now when we go we see people in khakis and jeans-and you no longer see the tuxes and evening gowns. we still dress nice NOW WE are overdressed.

My ex brother inlaw died 2 years ago and I went to his funneral to support my sister and her children. (her ex-husband-their father) His step daughter a woman in her late thirties-early forties was there dressed in blue jeans and a tee shirt with some kind of slogan on it. You can imagine what my sister thought of that-as she did not exactly care for his step family anyway.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old December 31st, 2005, 03:48 PM
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Have to add my two cents. We were on Jewel of the Seas 12/11-18. My husband wears a tux on formal night and I dress up with crepe slacks and a fancy top. It is part of the cruise that we enjoy. Our tablemates were all dressed similarly (the men wore ties and jackets) and we had a blast. All summer on our boat we are very informal and enjoy great dinners. My point: you don't need to be dressed up to have a great dinner or a good time, but why not be appropriate? When we walked in the dining room the 1st formal night, my husband announed "This isn't formal night -- you were wrong!" because so many men were in t-shirts or open shirts without jackets. It wouldn't hurt for a gent to wear at least a tie or a jacket. I overheard another fellow at a show say he felt totally out of place in a tux. That's a shame. Happing cruising!
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old January 9th, 2006, 08:47 PM
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Brochures also show tanned, fit young people having fun as well. And one visit to the lido deck on any ship will return you from polyanna.com

While some may cast what they hope the cruise industry will return to they'd better look closely at the attire of the passengers on their next cruise.

The past 6 cruises we've taken ranging from 5 to 7 nights all have reflected the trends to more casual attire.

One cruise line in particular has launched a Freestyle Dining program that allows cruisers to come and go without a table and time each night. All the industry is closely evaluating a resort casual approach versus formal night.

Forget when someone goes to the Carnival website and pastes the policy, what you will see are a growing number of men wearing just what you described in the dinning room on formal nights.

I sat in a ballroom in Ft. Lauderdale last December and listened to a NCL manager describe their newer ships and the dining choices, and the topic about formal dress brought a response that most of the premium dining choices on newer vessels will keep a dress code, but you can expect most lines to relax the current polices.

Currently the cruise industry is providing newer ships, and all are after the valuable dollar the vacationer brings. With that in mind, I've not seen any enforcement of attire on the Conquest, Elation, Ecstasy, Rhapsody, Splendour, Majesty and Celebration.

What I did see is men and women dressed in slacks and khakis for formal night, jeans on the other nights, and many tee shirts.

I personally have worn shorts to dinner while in port (Cozumel, three different ships) and on sail away evening from Jamaica, Grand Cayman, and Calica (see gravel pit...)

You can bet that the fashion police on these boards try to change the real facts that the trend towards casual dress and relaxed attire is evident in shopping malls, church, movies, and local dining establishments. I didn't say I agree, I am just stating the facts.

Long-winded answer, but wear what you want, drink some wine, enjoy the music and dance with your wife after dinner. Then adjourn to the upper deck to enjoy a nice rum and Partagas cigar at sunset.

I've cruised 11 times since my first journey on the Carnival Mardi Gras, and never has someone’s attire changed or enhanced the quality of my entree...

Life's Short, Enjoy The Ride

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Old February 12th, 2006, 07:34 PM
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I think what it all boils down to is respect. Respect for yourself and the others around you. It's fine if you choose not to go with the dress code for the evening, but don't disrespect the rest of us by showing up in the dining room not in the suggested dress for the evening.
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Old February 15th, 2006, 08:48 AM
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What it all boils down to is that people no longer want to play dress up outside of a few hardy souls that think it is the bee's knees to wear a bunch of clothes that they otherwise would not wear.

Why some people persist in making this dress issue out to be anything other than the changing times and the lack of desire of the populace in general to wear uncomfortable clothing. Let's not even menttion dragging it all along with you.

Lot's of posters here always state what is so hard about putting on the shoes, and tie and coat and slacks. Nothing is hard about putting them on, but I for one don't even bring them with me anymore. Making it rather impossible to put them on.

Along with that, the new restrictions in luggage weight on airlines, and the desire to bring only one bag with me, it pretty much cuts out all the clothes that one would wear for a couple of hours twice a week. Something's got to give in a 50lb bag and that 12 lb's of coat, slacks, ties and dress shoes were the first to go, and with pleasure!

As to weddings, funerals etc, I can tell you that at both of my parents funerals, the last thing I was concerned about was what other people were wearing. As to parties and weddings, the hosts, (and here they are actual hosts, not those that state the cruiseline or captain is my host) have every right to declare their "do" as formal attire, and repel all those that don't arrive in such. In that regard I would simply not attend.

Sorry, not interested in your fantasies in the least.

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Old February 21st, 2006, 03:29 PM
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ok so the formal attire is only in the main dining room? i've never been on a cruise before, and my fiance and i are thinking of going for our honeymoon. and he HATES dressing in a suit and tie. i personally don't mind dressing up, but my selection of cocktail dresses is umm.. limited. actually i only have one. i think. anyways, if we choose not to dress up for the formal night(s) we don't have to lock ourselves away for the night, correct? can we still do whatever buffet is there?
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Old February 22nd, 2006, 11:05 AM
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greenlady1 - "technically" the dress code is supposed to be for the entire evening, but that's really not true. Yes, if you want to dine in the main dining rooms and the alternative(pay) restaurants then you should dress formally. You can dine casually at the buffets, bistros,pizzerias, and you can order room service.
Most people change into casual clothing after formal dinner unless they are going straight to a show or to a special cruise ship function.
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Old February 22nd, 2006, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LisaK
greenlady1 - "technically" the dress code is supposed to be for the entire evening, but that's really not true. Yes, if you want to dine in the main dining rooms and the alternative(pay) restaurants then you should dress formally. You can dine casually at the buffets, bistros,pizzerias, and you can order room service.
Most people change into casual clothing after formal dinner unless they are going straight to a show or to a special cruise ship function.
thanks!
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Old February 22nd, 2006, 02:09 PM
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you are welcome.
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Old February 23rd, 2006, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lv2cruise
I enjoy getting dressed up for dinner but must admit, I like getting back into casual afterwards. We went on a 12 day Celebrity cruise and they expected you to remain formal the entire night on all formal nights (I think we had 3). I didn't enjoy walking around in heels and panty hose all night and hubby hated being in a suit and tie. Celebrity was nice, but we haven't gone back to that cruise line for several reasons, but the strict dress code is at the top of the list why we choose to cruise with other lines.
I loved Celebrity and the ambiance of their formal nights.

You know you can get dress shoes that are not high heels. I have two pair of dress slide sandals with 2 inch heels that are very comfortable. I also have gowns that are comfortable.

Many women make the mistake of buying a strapless or spaghetti strapped gown which requires the horrible miserable boned strapless bra if you have some age on you and are "going south". I NEVER buy those gowns and I have found beautiful youthful looking gowns without them being spaghetti strapped or strapless.

If you buy comfortable formal clothing and shoes then it is not a "pain" to stay dressed all evening.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 10:31 AM
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momofmeg, i totally agree with you. Formal doesn't mean uncomfortable.
You cam find beautiful dress shoes that are comfortable, beautiful dresses that are comfortable, heck my gown has spandex in it!!
Platazzo pants are back in style, those are soo comfortable, flowing fabric.
Guys, if your clothes fit you properly then they should be comfortable. You can always loosen your tie a bit and take off your suit coat after dinner.
We usually stay dressed formally after dinner to attend shows, and special ship functions.
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Old May 16th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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On our last HAL cruise, DH was not feeling up to snuff on the last formal night. Too much port activity. So, I went to dinner dressed up and he found out that during dining hours, he could order off the dining room menu for room service! He still loves to talk about being able to eat filet mignon in his jammies!
I don't mind how people dress, even though I like to dress up a bit. To minimize packing, I have some very dressy accessories and I sometimes just add those to basic black pants and top.
Marty
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Old May 18th, 2006, 01:17 PM
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How in the world did I miss this thread? Dress code discussion seems to go on and on. Some of us wnat to throw the bums out of the dining room if they don't precisely adhere to the "suggested" dress code while others, like myself, are more concerned with what is on our plate. For me good taste is what is in the food.

I do believe that the vast majority of the passengers on cruise ships pretty much follow the suggested rules, whatever they may be. I did notice that the latest brochure I have from Princess makes no mention of hats for either men or women in the dining room and refers only to not wearing cutoff jeans on casual nights. RCI also makes no mention of hats and refers to the wearing of slacks or trousers. Carnival refers to the wearing of casual resort wear on non formal nights and makes no mention of caps or jeans. I don't know about Celebrity's suggested attire.

I guess that it is ok to wear caps, though I really can't see why any man would want to do so inside and out of the sun. I have never worn jeans so I don't really know if certain jeans can be viewed as slacks or trousers. Whether we like it or not, dress codes on ships will continue to become more liberal as greater numbers of people cruise.

Again, I don't feel that you can measure the true worth of a person by wealth, status or what they wear.
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Old May 18th, 2006, 01:40 PM
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Because the cruise lines put "suggested attire" in the newsletter on board, it becomes unenforceable. Even 'tho buying a cruise is a contract, you cannot enforce suggestions. But, I think the main point is that they are in the business of making money and turning people away might discourage them from sailing again. We cruise junkies may help support the cruise industry, but they would go under without the rest of the passengers.

Right or wrong, I don't see them ever enforcing a dress code.
Also, so many people nowadays don't even own dressy clothes. If I had not started cruising 30+ years ago, I might not either. And, I truly can't justify the concept of forcing people to spend a bunch of money on clothes they may never wear again or insisting they sail on a different type of ship simply because I like dressing up. Or, more to the point, because I like seeing others dressed up. It is just not that important. And, frankly, if the cruise lines startes insisting on true formal wear, which means ball gowns for the ladies, I would become one of those breaking the rules. Been there, done that, long white gloves and all, and I was glad to see it pass out of style!

Marty the old broad
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