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  #31 (permalink)  
Old May 18th, 2007, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul B
The reason for Carnival making Paradise into a smoking ship is not that it was not fully booked. The simple financial fact is that smokers as a group spend more money in the casino and drink more alcohol than non smokers.

I have never smoked and have never been bothered by the minority of smokers on the ships I have cruised.

live and let live and let the smokers liver as long as they can manage.
Pleased to see that I am not the only one who has heard this statement - my understanding is that the Paradise (which I sailed on five times) had the highest load factor and lowest per passenger take of all the Carnival ships.

What I can't understand is why the cruise industry can't design a ventilation system that draws the air from the smokefree area into the smoking area, then exhausts. Hospitals are required to have negative pressure rooms to prevent the spread of airborne pathogens - a similar concept would greatly improve the enjoyability of cruises when smoking is present.

On our last cruise (January on the Carnival Liberty), you could not walk down the promenade when the casino was busy - the smoke smell billowing out was obnoxious. For those, like my wife, who have allergic reactions to second hand smoke, it can be deadly.

Smokers want to believe that the anti-smoking movement is driven by political correctness. Today, less than 20% of the US population smokes - it is a clear minority who smoke and those of us who do not smoke question the wisdom of protecting the rights of such a clear minority to the health detriment of the overwhelming majority who do not smoke.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old July 5th, 2007, 04:07 PM
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Default Smoking of Cruise Ships

As someone who is allergic and very sensitive to cigarette/cigar smoke, I would just like to say that I realize that it would be very difficult for a smoker to refrain completely from smoking for sometimes days at a time since this is an addictive behavior. But smokers should realize that second hand smoke IS bad for everyone and that most people who object to smoking are usually objecting due to health reasons.

I believe that smoking should not be allowed in any cabin or on the balcony of the cabins. In the cabins, even if I don't smell the leftover smoke from a prior cruiser, it is still there, just like pet dander would be if someone had their pet in a hotel room. On the balcony - yes you are outside (technically), but on the Freedom recently I had to leave my balcony due to someone next door smoking a cigar. The smoke ran me back into my cabin.

Again, I know that this is a difficult dilema for both the smoker and the non-smoker. On some of the ships I have been on their is a Havana bar for smokers with a bar and trivia games, etc. and there are smoking areas on the ship such as certain bars. I think if the smokers would just utilize these areas and the non-smokers would stay out of them, we would have less problems and would not need to smoke in the cabins or on the balconies.

Hope everyone (smokers and all) has lots of fun cruisin.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old July 6th, 2007, 12:43 PM
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Jst,
I'm a smoker and I agree. I usually go out on deck and even then try to stay away from others. The only time I smoke in my cabin is if I am sick (I have non-smoke related health problems) and even then, I wait until I am desperate enough to go sit in the bathroom, which has an exhaust fan!
But, I doubt very much that most smokers will ever agree to not smoke in their cabins. Even I hate the 2nd hand stuff and stay out of casinos because of it. Luckily, I'm too cheap to gamble anyway.
Marty
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old July 6th, 2007, 05:07 PM
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Default Smoking on cruise ships

Quote:
Originally Posted by colorcrazie
Jst,
I'm a smoker and I agree. I usually go out on deck and even then try to stay away from others. The only time I smoke in my cabin is if I am sick (I have non-smoke related health problems) and even then, I wait until I am desperate enough to go sit in the bathroom, which has an exhaust fan!
But, I doubt very much that most smokers will ever agree to not smoke in their cabins. Even I hate the 2nd hand stuff and stay out of casinos because of it. Luckily, I'm too cheap to gamble anyway.
Marty
At least you are staying in the bathroom. I don't know if a smoker could ever understand what I am about to say (as a non-smoker) and I don't mean to be mean-spirited or hurtful to anyone, but when you don't smoke and enter a room that has been inhabited by a smoker for a while, you immediately notice that rooms with drapes, carpets, upholstery and even some offices with only hard furniture and walls will have a stench (for lack of a better word) and a yellowish look to it. Again, if it were just the smell maybe some non-smokers could live with it. In my case and in most cases it is a health issue and I don't just mean long-term second hand smoke health issues. I am talking about immediate reactions to the smoke that is imbedded in fabrics, walls, carpets etc. To some of us, we just cannot breathe in this atmosphere.

I do carry a can of Oust with me on our cruises as it does seem to get rid of any smells, but it does not keep me from having breathing difficulties. I just wish smokers could be a little more considerate of non-smokers.

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2007, 03:13 PM
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Jst,
No problem. Smoking is a terrible habit and 2nd hand can be awful. That said, though, I am terribly allergic to most perfumes. Can't even go near the on board shops that sell them and spray samples on folks who want them. So, not defending smoking, but there are a lot of other things that people do that can affect others negatively. It's just not socially acceptable to say so!
Marty
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2007, 12:10 PM
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I live just outside a city in Texas with a sister city just 30 miles away.

Tyler/Longview.

Just a couple of years ago, Longview passed an oridinance banning smoking in all restaurants, or any establishment serving food (bowling alley, bingo hall, etc.)

Tyler did not pass the same ordinance, but most restaurants did follow the example to the extent that they now only offer outdoor smoking areas (covered).

Over the last two years, several and i do mean SEVERAL of the Longview restaurants have closed due to reduced revenue. Tyler restaurant business is booming.

This just shows that TOTAL ban on smoking CAN have an economic effect.

The truly important issue regarding the cruise issue is courtesy. Smokers should (and many do) show courtesy to non-smokers. And vice versa.

Drinkers should be courteous to non-drinkers.

Just as those with children should show courtesy to those without. Most do not, or at least not on vacations I have personally been on. And unsupervised, unruly children can raise your stress level to a point that has a huge adverse effect on overall health.

All should show common courtesy to each other. Our world would be a much better place.

I am truly hoping that these issues will not have a bad effect on our first cruise experience. I, personally, plan to show courtesy to others, as I do in everyday life, and I plan on ignoring the little things that COULD spoil my vacation if I let them.

I believe many here have made valid points and that this is an issue that will resolve itself, given time. As with most everything in our daily lives and our recreational time, economics will rule out.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2007, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
Just ONE ship (Carnival Paradise) couldn't survive being smoke-free so there's no reason to believe that a whole fleet could survive. Probably someday, but not today.

I know of another....The Renaissance was an adults only no smoking vessel.
The line failed, but moreso due to the management trying to bypass TA's than the no smoking thing.

If there were to be another adults only no smoking ship started, I would book it exclusively-no doubt in my mind.

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2007, 09:09 PM
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And what a dream boat that would be.... NO children...

If there were to EVER be a no children, no smoking cruise, I might just have to consider quitting smoking to go on that one.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old August 16th, 2007, 11:44 AM
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[quote=luv2cruise99][quote="richstacyCarnival has already proven with the failure of the Paradise that the industry is not yet ready for even one smoke-free ship. How do you expect them to survive with 100's of such ships?[/quote]
I am a smoker and I would be very upset to board a ship one day and find out that I can no longer smoke in my cabin.

1. I doubt the Star Princess fire was solely the result of a poorly discarded cigarette. I think it was a combination of things, mainly that there were no sprinkler heads on the balcony, and there were combustible materials stored out there ... such as padded loungers that were not fire-retardant, perhaps some towels or bathing suits drying ... whatever. Had that cigarette been discarded ... and it could have been tossed from an upper deck ... it did not have to be a cigarette left there by the occupants of the cabin on whose balcony the fire started ... and had there not been flammable materials on that baloncy, you would not have had a fire.

Cabins are constructed of fire-retardant materials. They also have sprinkler heads. A poorly discarded cigarette would not start a fire in a cabin ... the worst it would do is burn the bedding or leave a nasty mark on the furnishes ... damage a cabin steward would see and the cabin occupant would most likely be charged for.

2. The Carnival Paradise did not "fail." It was, from what I understand, a solidly booked ship that would have remained in service for many more years to come. The Carnival Paradise was elminated as a non-smoking ship when the other Carnival ship that plied the Caribbean at that time was moved to the West Coast. Carnival felt that it wouldn't be fair to have a totally non-smoking ship in the Caribbean if that was the only ship there. So, they began to allow smoking on it.

3. It would be a totally different situation if ALL ships went non-smoking. No one cruise line would be at a disadvantage since cruisers would have no options. If they want to cruise, they can't smoke in most areas onboard the ship. Sadly, I see this day coming ... probably in 2010 when the new SOLAS regulations take effect. I'm willing to bet when that time comes, no smoking will be permitted in any cabins or on balconies, and no smoking will be permitted indoors on any ship. There will probably be a couple of small "smoking allowed" areas out on the open decks ... maybe a small section of the outdoor Lido deck and perhaps an area on the outdoor promonade deck ... but that's it. When that day comes, we smokers are gonna have some hard choices to make. If we want to continue cruising, we're gonna have to accept that we are gonna be very limited in where we can enjoy a cigarette onboard. It might very well be that many of us will begin looking for other options for our vacation dollar.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old August 16th, 2007, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwood12043
Over the last two years, several and i do mean SEVERAL of the Longview restaurants have closed due to reduced revenue. Tyler restaurant business is booming.

This just shows that TOTAL ban on smoking CAN have an economic effect.
We had a similar situation here in Philadelphia. The city went non-smoking in all restaurants, bars (that made a certain percentage or more of their revenue on food), and many, many other public venues. However, that ban was only in the County (or city) of Philadelphia. Drive another couple miles to get outside the city and you could enjoy your cigarette right at your restaurant table.

Of course, city restaurants and especially bars are screaming. Some of the bars actually have found it cheaper to ignore the smoking ban, let the patrons smoke, and then pay the $100 or so per day fine if they are cited.

But the problem now is that the State of Pennsylvania is planning a similar ban. If it passes, there will be no place in the state that will allow smoking. New Jersey is already smoke-free.

That will be a completely different thing. Now every restaurant, bar, etc. can strictly enforce the ban because where you gonna go? You can't smoke anywhere in the state now. In short, if you want to go to a bar or a restaurant, you will not smoke there. You can't go anywhere else because the same rules apply at that establishment.

People will adapt. They will really have no choice unless they just want to sit home and drink and prepare all of their own meals. Not a likely prospect.

Blue skies ...

--rita
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old October 4th, 2007, 09:09 PM
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My family and I love to cruise. We enjoyed the Paradise several times while she was "smoke free", and even made the suggestion to Carnival to move her around and offer different itineraries. For the most part, we just try to avoid areas of the ships that are prone to smoke - like the casinos after dinner. I do believe that the cruise lines could do a better job with the ventilation! There is no reason for there to be a cloud of smoke on the promenade deck outside of the casino! We took a cruise to Alaska and booked a suite. We loved it, with this exception: our neighbors in the next suite came out on their balcony to smoke, and we no only smelled the smoke, but also smelled like smoke if we chose to stay on our balcony while they were outside. I realize this is probably a rare situation, and they have every right to smoke on their balcony. Here is my question: Don't I have the right to sit on my balcony without having to be subjected to their smoke? It seems that in order for the smokers to have their rights, non-smokers loose theirs and vice versa. Maybe the cruise lines should have smoking cabins on one side of the ship, and non-smoking cabins on the other side.
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