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-   -   If irons are a fire hazard so are smoking materials (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/all-things-cruising/311232-if-irons-fire-hazard-so-smoking-materials.html)

Barb Nahoumi March 23rd, 2006 06:06 PM

If irons are a fire hazard so are smoking materials
 
If irons are a fire hazzard in passengers' cabins, so are smoking materials.

A dropped cigarette ash can easily ignite on bedding or carpeting, with deadly results. I would like to see smoking materials also banned from passengers rooms, and only allowed, in limited public areas.

The fire on the Star princess might have been caused by smoking materials.

richstacy March 23rd, 2006 08:58 PM

It apparently was started by a cigarette. You are quite right in my opinion. The inevitable demise of smoking needs to be hurried along. And I smoked for years. The Colorado legislature recently joined other states with a fairly comprehensive ban on smoking in all public places except casinos. there is no reason to all ow smoking on cruise ships outside of a carefully controlled area, say a fireproof room in the bowels of the ship.

chibertb March 25th, 2006 10:55 PM

Amen sister!!!!!

chibertb March 25th, 2006 10:56 PM

......and Amen Brother!!

The Cruise Guy March 26th, 2006 07:17 PM

Bah-Humbug!!!!!!!

luv2cruise99 March 27th, 2006 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richstacy
...there is no reason to all ow smoking on cruise ships outside of a carefully controlled area, say a fireproof room in the bowels of the ship.

Actually, there is one very good reason to allow smoking on cruiseships and that is economic.

Carnival has already proven with the failure of the Paradise that the industry is not yet ready for even one smoke-free ship. How do you expect them to survive with 100's of such ships? Better question, exactly how much are you willing to pay for your next cruise? Lose the smokers (and the family and friends that sail with them) and you may be surprised to find that you can no longer afford to cruise. You may also be surprised at how few choices you have as ships get eliminated due to low bookings.

While the incident on Star Princess was definitely tragic and must have been terrifying for all involved, it is statistically insignificant when you consider the thousands of cruises that sail each year without a cigarette-related fire. I doubt anything will change in regards to smoking because of the fire on the Star. I certainly hope not. I don't think any of us would like the changes the cruise industry would have to make to compensate for the loss of smokers. Higher prices and fewer ships. All for a "feel good" measure that would do little or nothing to improve safety.

richstacy March 27th, 2006 06:41 PM

Heard all those same arguments with respect to restaurants. Death knell for the industry and all that malarkey. Now Colorado has joined a growing number of states to make them all smoke free. (Indeed all public places except casinos) I'm a former heavy smoker, but I know the era of smoking is rapidly passing. It's on its last legs in the U.S. and Europe and Canada won't be far behind. Virtually all of my friends and relatives used to smoke (say 20 years ago), now I honestly can't think of a one who still does, though I can think of a few who died trying.

I predict that in another 10 years smoking will be severely restricted on cruise ships. It is pretty well restricted now.

luv2cruise99 March 27th, 2006 10:14 PM

Restaurants are a little different than cruiseships. The smoker only has to go an hour or two without a cigarette and can even run outside for a smoke if they feel the need. Quite a bit different than being trapped on a non-smoking ship for 24 hours a day.

No doubt, smoking is becoming less popular and someday there will not even be a need to have this discussion because there won't be enough smokers left. However, until the day comes when banning smoking becomes more profitable for the cruiselines than allowing it, I doubt we will see any major changes. And I don't think that day is going to come anytime real soon.

So far, all the ships I have been on (mostly Princess with a few Carnival and Celebrity) have had pretty liberal smoking rules with smoking allowed in all cabins, on one side of outdoor decks, and in designated areas (which seemed to be plentiful) of most bars and lounges. I don't see this changing anytime soon. The cruiselines have too much to lose and nothing to gain. I thank the Carnival Paradise has already proven that.

richstacy March 27th, 2006 11:31 PM

luvtocruise99,
I disagree, so does Ann Campbell. Have you read her piece about the probable crackdown on smoking industry-wide which is headlined on the Cruisemates home page? I'm not suggesting that all ships be non-smoking, nor is Anne. The suggestion is that smoking be much more restricted to certain areas. Smokers have far less clout now than they did even ten years ago. the PR battle and the legal battle is essentially over. They lost.

luv2cruise99 March 28th, 2006 03:14 AM

To a certain extent you are right, smokers do have less clout than they did 10 years ago. Many public places are now smoke-free and smokers have gotten used to that. They have gotten used to excusing themselves from restaurants for a smoke break or leaving other public places to smoke outdoors. However, a cruiseship is quite a bit different because people aren't only there for a couple of hours. It is their "home away from home" for 7 days or longer. Make smoking too restricted and smokers will just stop cruising. That in and of itself wouldn't hurt the industry because smokers are a relatively small percentage of the population, but when you consider the spouses, and kids, and parents, and cousins, and aunts, and uncles, and friends that cruise with the smoker, the numbers get much bigger. There are just too many other vacation alternatives for smokers to be willing to tolerate having to scamper around trying to find a place to smoke the entire cruise and their are still too many families that have at least one smoker where a non-smoking ship would be a vacation-buster.

Just ONE ship (Carnival Paradise) couldn't survive being smoke-free so there's no reason to believe that a whole fleet could survive. Probably someday, but not today.

LisaK March 28th, 2006 11:51 AM

why does it have to be all or nothing? why can't the cruise lines do what hotels do and offer smoking and non-smoking cabins, some on each deck, in each cabin catagory. Seems simple to me.

I just put on my flame retardant suit, so i am going to jump in here and voice my opinion. I am not a smoker, i suffer from severe allergies and my mother is a chronic asmatic. If ever there was a person who should complain about smokers it my mom. Interesting thing, she has cruised extensively and has never once complained about being out on her balcony and being overcome by smoke smell from another balcony, nor has she ever complained about a smoke smell in her stateroom. She does not go into the casino during "peak" hours, she will go in when it is quiet. I am the same. Personal recollection - on our last cruise, their was a gentleman one deck up from us who smoked a cigar on a regular basis. We would see him, he would wave, toast us with his cocktail and cigar. Never once did the scent of his cigar waft down to our balcony. I couldn't tell you if our neighbors were smokers or not.

Thomas March 29th, 2006 03:02 PM

I am a non-smoker who owns a restaurant which had to go non-smoking because of Florida law. You know what? I am now getting other restaurant's business because I have a covered deck for smokers. Other restaurants are suffering because of this law. I heard all the garbage from non-smokers about how much more likely they are to dine out if all restaurants were non-smoking. Statistics prove they weren't! My business is up because smokers can come to my place and sit under a roof with ceiling fans and out of the rain.

I also have a friend who owns a bar which also served food. He had to make a decision. Get rid of the food, or get rid of the smokers! He got rid of the food. Had to lay off 5 kitchen staff, two of which had been there for over 10 years. Now people sit in his bar and get drunk but can't get a cheeseburger and fries to soak up the alcohol.

Makes sense to me.

Regards,
Thomas

momofmeg March 29th, 2006 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
To a certain extent you are right, smokers do have less clout than they did 10 years ago. Many public places are now smoke-free and smokers have gotten used to that. They have gotten used to excusing themselves from restaurants for a smoke break or leaving other public places to smoke outdoors. However, a cruiseship is quite a bit different because people aren't only there for a couple of hours. It is their "home away from home" for 7 days or longer. Make smoking too restricted and smokers will just stop cruising. That in and of itself wouldn't hurt the industry because smokers are a relatively small percentage of the population, but when you consider the spouses, and kids, and parents, and cousins, and aunts, and uncles, and friends that cruise with the smoker, the numbers get much bigger. There are just too many other vacation alternatives for smokers to be willing to tolerate having to scamper around trying to find a place to smoke the entire cruise and their are still too many families that have at least one smoker where a non-smoking ship would be a vacation-buster.

Just ONE ship (Carnival Paradise) couldn't survive being smoke-free so there's no reason to believe that a whole fleet could survive. Probably someday, but not today.

Most here are NOT asking for a smoke free ship but a ship with desiginated smoking areas with extra fire proof material-which brings me to THIS. hey say the problem was from someone throwing off a lit cigerette off a balcony.

Our balconies always had ashtrays. Why can't a smoker just put his/her cigerette OUT and leave it in the ashtray for the steward to later clean INSTEAD of throwing their lit cigerette into the ocean?

If smokers would be more responsible-then this topic would not even be here-it is here only because of ONE idiot-who acted irresponsibly.

PeterV March 31st, 2006 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by momofmeg
Most here are NOT asking for a smoke free ship but a ship with desiginated smoking areas with extra fire proof material-which brings me to THIS. hey say the problem was from someone throwing off a lit cigerette off a balcony.

If smokers would be more responsible-then this topic would not even be here-it is here only because of ONE idiot-who acted irresponsibly.

I didn't realise that they had determined the cause of the fire, are you privy to some information that has not yet been made public?

Why do the ships need extra fire proof material? It is not like there have been fires springing up like weeds due to these idiots that you mention.

Would you also be so vocal about banning electricity from ships if it was determined the cause was a short-circuit?

People face risks 24 hours a day, you do what you can to minimise these, but you cannot eliminate all risk entirely. And it would be an extremely unpleasant world if they tried. Face it this whole smoking issue is based not so much on the risk, but the number of people who think it easy to bash on smokers because it is politically correct to do so.

Cheers,
Peter

momofmeg March 31st, 2006 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterV
Quote:

Originally Posted by momofmeg
Most here are NOT asking for a smoke free ship but a ship with desiginated smoking areas with extra fire proof material-which brings me to THIS. hey say the problem was from someone throwing off a lit cigerette off a balcony.

If smokers would be more responsible-then this topic would not even be here-it is here only because of ONE idiot-who acted irresponsibly.

I didn't realise that they had determined the cause of the fire, are you privy to some information that has not yet been made public?

Why do the ships need extra fire proof material? It is not like there have been fires springing up like weeds due to these idiots that you mention.

Would you also be so vocal about banning electricity from ships if it was determined the cause was a short-circuit?

People face risks 24 hours a day, you do what you can to minimise these, but you cannot eliminate all risk entirely. And it would be an extremely unpleasant world if they tried. Face it this whole smoking issue is based not so much on the risk, but the number of people who think it easy to bash on smokers because it is politically correct to do so.

Cheers,
Peter

No Peter I am not "privy" to any information-I am just adding to the OP's orginal post.

Actually I doubt that is the true cause because you KNOW GOOD AND WELL- many a slob has done that-so if that could cause a fire-then heck my guess is there would have been a cruiseship fire long before now from that.

I can tell you this-my father almost killed himself many years ago because he passed out with a lit cigerette. He was an alcoholic and drank steady all day from sun up to sundown-he barely managed to stay half-way sober while he was at work-but as soon as he came home from work-he would be drunk himself to a stuper within an hour.

When he almost killed himself-my mother and I (I was around 15 then) were out of town for the weekend. We came home that Sunday night to find my parent's bed destroyed and my father asleep (actually passed out) in my bedroom. Mom woke Dad and tried to find out what happened but he did not even know.

My brother came by about an hour later that night- (he was grown by then and not living at home)- my brother told us he had stopped by that afternoon and found the house full of smoke and our dad passed out in his bed and the bed on fire. My brother pulled my Dad out and put the fire out. He tried to take Dad to the emergency room (by this time he had woke Dad up ) but Dad would not go-so he was coming by again to make sure Dad was okay as he was not sure when we were returning.

So I can easily see how that scenerio could happen on a cruiseship-and to me- that makes more sense to me that someone passed out with a cigerette that was lit-or they could have set down a lit cigerette and being drunk left it lying somewhere in their cabin and then possibly left their cabin to go Party" some more.

Or it could be as some suggested that a person DELIBERATELY set the fire for who knows what reason-maybe because they were jerks-who knows?

I guess we could go on guessing on that all day- and we may never really KNOW what happened. The POINT though I was TRYING to make is that no one asked for a smoke free ship but that smoking be restricted to certain very fireproof areas. That is what I was answering to the person who was upset that people wanted a "smoke free" ship.


Heck give me some slack-I am not an anti-smoker hater. As long as people are not harming me-they can do what they want. I could care less-unless it is hurting me.

and I agree with you there has been too much hoopla over this-and no it has not terrifed me-we booked a cruise on Caribbean Princess the very next day. I agree I could drop dead from a heart attack or stroke-or I could die driving in my car that 1 mile to the grocry store-----------

username April 11th, 2006 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richstacy
It apparently was started by a cigarette. You are quite right in my opinion. The inevitable demise of smoking needs to be hurried along. And I smoked for years. The Colorado legislature recently joined other states with a fairly comprehensive ban on smoking in all public places except casinos. there is no reason to all ow smoking on cruise ships outside of a carefully controlled area, say a fireproof room in the bowels of the ship.

YOU CAN DEFINITLEY TELL YOU DONT SMOKE ANYMORE WITH A COMMENT LIKE THAT ONE. YOU JUST WANT WHAT YOU WANT--NOT COMPROMISE, AND THAT MY FRIEND I STHE PROBLEM. BY THE WAY MORE HOUSE FIRES ARE CAUSED BY APPLIANCES, OVERLOADED CIRCUITS, AND HEATERS THAN CIGARETTES. I WONDER HOW MANY OF THOSE APPLIANCE OWNERS SMOKED.

Barb Nahoumi July 22nd, 2006 05:28 PM

:idea:

I am not complaining about smoking because I dislike the smell. I am a former smoker so I understand. It is as much of a safety issue as a hot iron in a cabin.

Today, I read in my local paper that Marriot Corporation will be Smoke-free in September. With this move, it will be joining Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Westin Properties, which was the first hotel to go smoke free.

The article goes on to state that before the move, Marriot had become 90% smoke free in response to guest demand.

So for safety sake, remember Star Princess, I want cruise lines to be smoke-free in all cabins. Smokers can light up in a designated lounge or casino. This will be fair to all------and a bit safer.

Barb

Fieldmouse July 27th, 2006 10:34 AM

People face risks 24 hours a day, you do what you can to minimise these, but you cannot eliminate all risk entirely. And it would be an extremely unpleasant world if they tried. Face it this whole smoking issue is based not so much on the risk, but the number of people who think it easy to bash on smokers because it is politically correct to do so.

Cheers,
Peter[/quote]

You can't really believe that!

UConn1 August 4th, 2006 06:31 PM

I am one of the few polite smokers left in the world....I actually respect your right to not be subjected to my bad habit. I obey the rules, don't smoke in nonsmoking areas, ask you if my smoke blowing your way bothers you, and won't smoke in the cabin when cruising with my nonsmoking friends. I will go to a nonsmoking restaurant, I will book a nonsmoking hotel, and I will be polite to you if you tell me it bothers you (but tell me in a nice manner), then I will put it out or move to another location unless, of course, you are in one of the limited areas I have left to smoke and start rudely complaining. I also agree that the ships did a good thing by making smoking allowable on only one side of the ship, and making some of the clubs nonsmoking. I also agree that the Paradise was a prime example of why a completely nonsomking ship won't work, but why not provide nonsmoking sailings or make half of the cabins nonsmoking on every ship? I wouldn't have a problem with that, nor do I think smokers would.

Jodi

jrbear August 9th, 2006 06:46 PM

smoking
 
Unfortunately, I have to admit that I am still a smoker but I cannot stand to be indoors with people smoking. I don't smoke in my home or my vehicle and I would not enjoy a smoke-filled restaurant or cabin that smelled of stale smoke.

I feel that smoking on my balcony or in designated outdoor areas is acceptable and that non-smokers should respect that space and remove themselves from it. Appropriate ashtrays/receptacles are a way to help ensure that smokers dispose of their ashes and butts responsibly with little risk for a fire. Just as with any other trash, it is our responsiblity to keep our sidewalks or decks clean and I find that most smokers try to keep from offending the rest of the world. Those who throw theirs butts on the ground should be reprimanded or fined the way other people who litter are.

I don't wish to subject others to my vice, and I respect those who do not smoke, just as I respect those who do not drink etc. We all can give each other space and not impose on those who don't partake.

I do forsee a future where we will only be able to smoke in our own homes and I suppose that will help us to quit, but the tobacco company lobbies are still so strong, that I feel it is still a long way off. :)

Dianeisme313 August 26th, 2006 09:21 PM

I think if all cruise ships went smoke free, then they would all survive just fine. Smokers taking other trips well they could go to Vegas. On the other board it was mentioned that the UK, Scotland, Wales are all smoke free or was UK working on it. Anyway, I no longer go to Vegas. First trip in a long time my sister-in-law and her family went and we didn't go last winter. If this cruise, we are taking in the summer of '07, ends up being a smoke mess again, this will be the last cruise for me. I will just take a European trip to the land of no public smoke. Yes, you forgot about us non-smokers who will stop taking cruises if smoke is always in our face. On Carnival Valor you could eat, see the show and enjoy the music groups in the lounge, some pool areas were the only places that a non-smoker good breath easy. One evening the lounge was closed, because of a wedding, and there was nothing to do after the show for us non-smokers.

Smoking not being a problem in 10 years. I live in a town where smokers dominate (at least it feels that way). We walk every evening: I see young people walking on the streets smoking and feel so bad for them. The future they have ironed out for themselves. I've see alot of friends and family die from smoking related illnesses. Pickups and cars drive by us and I can smell the smoke. Walking by houses I can smell the smoke.

Our restaurants did go smoke free, but people stand in front to smoke. I haven't notice business slacking off at all.

I agree they should at least make most places smoke free on cruise ships, leave the cigar bar and one side of the public deck for smokers. Leave the cabins and balconies free of smoke, lounges, bars, and casinoes smoke free, and places that are smoke free now will continue. We are getting a balcony this cruise and i'm upset to hear how people can smell people smoking on other balconies. I forgot to make sure to get a smoke free cabin. I have to call my TA and see if we got a smoke free room.

Smokers I have nothing against you, just your smoke, lol. Smoke causes me to have nosebleeds, I lose my voice, and get headaches. That's why no more Vegas trips.

PeterV September 7th, 2006 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
People face risks 24 hours a day, you do what you can to minimise these, but you cannot eliminate all risk entirely. And it would be an extremely unpleasant world if they tried. Face it this whole smoking issue is based not so much on the risk, but the number of people who think it easy to bash on smokers because it is politically correct to do so.

Cheers,
Peter

You can't really believe that![/quote]

Why would I not, I did say it.

Cheers,
Peter

Fieldmouse September 7th, 2006 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PeterV
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
People face risks 24 hours a day, you do what you can to minimise these, but you cannot eliminate all risk entirely. And it would be an extremely unpleasant world if they tried. Face it this whole smoking issue is based not so much on the risk, but the number of people who think it easy to bash on smokers because it is politically correct to do so.

Cheers,
Peter

You can't really believe that!

Why would I not, I did say it.

Cheers,

Peter[/quote]

I thought that maybe you were just typing fast and didn't realize what you wrote...OR maybe after re-reading what you posted, you might have a correction or clarification. Hummmmmmm....guess not.

Paul B September 7th, 2006 11:58 AM

Peter, as a non-smoker, I basically agree with you. It you risk your health by smoking, that is your business. If I risk mine by consuming too much sugar and fat calories, that is my business. If you don't blow smoke in my face and I don't jam donuts in your mouth, we can get along just fine.

This whole second hand smoke thing has been really carried too far. There is no way I can smell or be affected by smoke from someone's cigarette 100 feet away.

I do take exception to the smell of a cigar in an enclosed room. I consider that as offensive as heavy perfume or desert perspiration. When possible, I absent myself from such surroundings.

POPPA_DADDYO December 13th, 2006 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
Quote:

Originally Posted by richstacy
...there is no reason to all ow smoking on cruise ships outside of a carefully controlled area, say a fireproof room in the bowels of the ship.

Actually, there is one very good reason to allow smoking on cruiseships and that is economic.

Carnival has already proven with the failure of the Paradise that the industry is not yet ready for even one smoke-free ship. How do you expect them to survive with 100's of such ships? Better question, exactly how much are you willing to pay for your next cruise? Lose the smokers (and the family and friends that sail with them) and you may be surprised to find that you can no longer afford to cruise. You may also be surprised at how few choices you have as ships get eliminated due to low bookings.

While the incident on Star Princess was definitely tragic and must have been terrifying for all involved, it is statistically insignificant when you consider the thousands of cruises that sail each year without a cigarette-related fire. I doubt anything will change in regards to smoking because of the fire on the Star. I certainly hope not. I don't think any of us would like the changes the cruise industry would have to make to compensate for the loss of smokers. Higher prices and fewer ships. All for a "feel good" measure that would do little or nothing to improve safety.

I just got back from the Great Wolf Lodge and it was totally smoke free inside. They are always fully booked. I spent more money in 3 days there then on a 5 day cruise on Carnival. If a hotel can do this and make money and be fully booked, a big cruise ship could do just as well or better.

Paul B December 17th, 2006 03:50 PM

The reason for Carnival making Paradise into a smoking ship is not that it was not fully booked. The simple financial fact is that smokers as a group spend more money in the casino and drink more alcohol than non smokers.

I have never smoked and have never been bothered by the minority of smokers on the ships I have cruised.

live and let live and let the smokers liver as long as they can manage.

POPPA_DADDYO December 17th, 2006 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul B
The reason for Carnival making Paradise into a smoking ship is not that it was not fully booked. The simple financial fact is that smokers as a group spend more money in the casino and drink more alcohol than non smokers.

I have never smoked and have never been bothered by the minority of smokers on the ships I have cruised.

live and let live and let the smokers liver as long as they can manage.

Yes, let them smoke, but away from the people that don't want to stink. When I leave the cabin freshly showered, I do not want to be smoke infested within minutes from rude smokers. I avoid all smoking areas but I still have smoke on me due to the rude smokers smoking wherever they choose to smoke.

TDM516 January 2nd, 2007 12:51 AM

If irons are banned, so should smoking materials be
 
I could not agree more. I have wondered about this several times. For those of you out there who smoke, you probably have no idea how the rest of us feel, when we really stop and think about it, that we are on a ship, in the middle of the ocean, and the probability of whether or not we have a fire on that ship is in large part due to whether or not you fall asleep with a cigarette in your hand, or let it fall somewhere wrong inadvertantly. There's just too much risk associated with smoking on a cruise ship, and I've always wondered why it's even allowed. It's bad enough of a risk in a high-rise hotel building, but at least there are several ways to get a lot of fire engines there on land. When you're at sea, it's a lot different.

rescuedad January 2nd, 2007 02:42 PM

Just a comment here........ I work in a hospital. We can't even get the occasional smoker to not sneak one in the bathroom of his hospital room. How would or how could they enforce this on a ship or hotel? Is the steward gonna rat and risk losing a nice gratuity?

dvrdude January 16th, 2007 08:57 AM

Quote:

There's just too much risk associated with smoking on a cruise ship, and I've always wondered why it's even allowed. It's bad enough of a risk in a high-rise hotel building, but at least there are several ways to get a lot of fire engines there on land. When you're at sea, it's a lot different
OMG!!! You're right! Come to think of it, we could lessen the risk of fire even more if the diesels were shut down, main curcuit breaker opened, and propane shut off to the kitchens! How bad could floating with the tide in the dark eating tuna salad be???


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