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Old July 28th, 2008, 11:01 AM
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Default READ ABOUT ALLEDGED CRIMES ON CRUISE SHIPS

[color=blue]To read actual cases go to the web site of "International Cruise Victims Association" scroll down to Members stories.

http://www.internationalcruisevictims.org/


Interesting web site to say the least.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 11:34 AM
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Well, I may get flamed for saying this, but it appears to me that Kerry, is, as usual, waisting his time, and our money on the less important things in life. IMO most of what this bill calls for, will accomplish nothing except raising the price of a cruise for the 99.99% of us who never experience any problems while enjoying our cruises. I suggest that Mr. Kerry work on lowering the price of energy, taking care of immigration problems, protecting social security, lowering our taxes, and keeping our roads and bridges safe, instead of this pretty much worthless bill.

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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:31 PM
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We seem to be debating the bill without the bill text. I don't trust what they say to the Media it doesn't always match the bill. Kerry's bill is S. 3204 here is the link. http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c110:S.3204: I pulled out pieces of the bill I put the fees and charges up front because this is now they plan on paying for this bill.

(b) FEES AND CHARGES- The Commandant of the Coast Guard may promulgate regulations under section 9701 of title 33, United States Code, establishing charges for services provided by the Coast Guard under section 7(b)(3)(C) of the Ports and Waterways Safety Act (33 U.S.C. 1226(b)(3)(C)) as amended by subsection (a).

Cruise vessel security and safety requirements:
(1) IN GENERAL- Each passenger vessel to which this subsection applies shall comply with the following design and construction standards:
`(A) The vessel shall be equipped with ship rails that are located not less than 4 1/2 feet above the deck.
`(B) Each passenger stateroom and crew cabin shall be equipped with entry doors that include--
`(i) peep holes;
`(ii) security latches; and
`(iii) time sensitive key technology.
`(C) Fire safety codes shall be implemented.

DETAILING COAST GUARD PERSONNEL TO ENFORCE CRUISE SHIP REQUIREMENTS.
(a) IN GENERAL- Section 7(b)(3) of the Ports and Waterways Safety Act (33 U.S.C. 1226(b)(3)) is amended to read as follows:
`(3) dispatch properly trained and qualified armed Coast Guard Personnel on vessels and public or commercial structures on or adjacent to waters subject to United States jurisdiction--
`(A) to deter or respond to acts of terrorism or transportation security incidents, as defined in section 70101 of title 46, United States Code;
`(B) to act as environmental observers for the purposes of--
`(i) monitoring compliance with the requirements of all applicable Federal laws and regulations regarding the discharge of waste into United States territorial waters;
`(ii) observing operation and maintenance procedures for onboard waste treatment systems;
`(iii) ensuring the proper handling and disposal of all hazardous wastes; and
`(iv) verifying logbook entries for all records required by the Coast Guard related to waste treatment and disposal; and
`(C) to act as public safety officers for the purposes of--
`(i) assisting vessel passengers and crew, as needed, with the reporting and investigation of potential criminal activities occurring on board vessels to which section 3507 of title 46, United States Code, applies while such vessels are in United States territorial waters;
`(ii) securing, to the degree possible, suspected crime scenes on such vessels; and
`(iii) collecting evidence of alleged crimes against passengers and crew on such vessels.'.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 02:26 PM
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I'm with Sky on this topic. 8) 8) 8)
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Old July 28th, 2008, 05:52 PM
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Kerrys' hair would fall out if he lowered taxes or won a war.....MD
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Old July 28th, 2008, 08:44 PM
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I have to wonder, did this politician consider that anyone who is NOT a US citizen or resident has NO RIGHTS at all if a crime is committed, but if it was a US citizen/resident the FBI would get involved....So if a British woman was raped/killed/went missing nothing would/could be done--but the predator would be off the ship so fast it wasn't funny. Now, an American woman would suffer the same fate the FBI would be called in to investigate....Is that fair that as a Canadian no one is there to protect me as a foreigner, but will protect it's own citizens. Am I not worthy? The only country I know of where foreigners won't see justice is Mexico. Those Mexicans can clean a crime scene up so fast and turn the story around to make it seem that it was all the dead persons fault.

Did your illustrious Senator think of that?...
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Old July 28th, 2008, 09:14 PM
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Not to mention that most cruiseships are under a foreign flag. I understand the ship has ot abide by the US maritime laws while in US waters but there is no control when the ship is outside these territories.
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Old July 29th, 2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by misguidedangel
I have to wonder, did this politician consider that anyone who is NOT a US citizen or resident has NO RIGHTS at all if a crime is committed, but if it was a US citizen/resident the FBI would get involved....So if a British woman was raped/killed/went missing nothing would/could be done--but the predator would be off the ship so fast it wasn't funny. Now, an American woman would suffer the same fate the FBI would be called in to investigate....Is that fair that as a Canadian no one is there to protect me as a foreigner, but will protect it's own citizens. Am I not worthy? The only country I know of where foreigners won't see justice is Mexico. Those Mexicans can clean a crime scene up so fast and turn the story around to make it seem that it was all the dead persons fault.

Did your illustrious Senator think of that?...
I'm not sure that is true. Title 46 section 3507 will be added by this this bill. Part (B) (i) basically says if it happens in the jurisdicition of the United States and outside the jurisdiciton of any State. Regardless of the nationality of the victim the FBI would investigate. Same as would happen if a Canadian citizen was attacked in a US city. US citizens are additional covered if the incident is committed outside the jurisdiction of any nation. But US doesn't have jurisdiction for anyone other then their our citizens outside of the USA. It would be up to each country to adopt thier own laws to cover their citizens. Somehow I doubt very seriously that you want the USA adopting laws for Canada.

`(B) INCIDENTS TO WHICH SUBPARAGRAPH (A) APPLIES- Subparagraph (A) applies to an incident involving criminal activity if--

`(i) the ship, regardless of registry, is owned, in whole or in part, by a United States person, regardless of the nationality of the victim or perpetrator, and the incident occurs when the vessel is within the admiralty and maritime jurisdiction of the United States and outside the jurisdiction of any State;

`(ii) the incident concerns an offense by or against a United States national committed outside the jurisdiction of any nation;

`(iii) the incident occurs in the Territorial Sea of the United States, regardless of the nationality of the vessel, the victim, or the perpetrator; or

`(iv) the incident concerns a victim or perpetrator who is a United States national on a vessel during a voyage that departed from or will arrive at a United States port.

`(4) AVAILABILITY OF INCIDENT DATA VIA INTERNET-

`(A) WEBSITE- The Secretary shall maintain, on an Internet site of the department in which the Coast Guard is operating, a numerical accounting of the missing persons and alleged crimes recorded in each report filed under paragraph (1)(A). The data shall be updated no less frequently than quarterly, aggregated by cruise line, and each cruise line shall be identified by name.

`(B) ACCESS TO WEBSITE- Each cruise line taking on or discharging passengers in the United States shall include a link on its Internet website to the website maintained by the Secretary under subparagraph (A).
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Old July 29th, 2008, 04:50 PM
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I agree with Ken.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 09:14 AM
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Ha Did you see Kerry's pictures on facebook today with a bunch of boozing young ladies in Nantucket? That's why he is our junior senator in Massachusetts. We really don't ever take him seriously.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 10:30 AM
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Rather, you can check BostonHerald.com, or Boston.com. Very funny pictures. We are so proud of him. So very, very proud.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 02:26 PM
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looks like Dave the Wave to me


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Old July 30th, 2008, 03:19 PM
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That looks like photoshop to me. He looks like a cardboard cutout.
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Old July 30th, 2008, 04:09 PM
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Sorry, but I think it is an unconscionable waste of the taxpayers money that this charade is allowed to continue, including these periodic "hearings."

Why aren't hotels and motels, condos, etc. required to raise their balcony rails -- the number who fall from buildings is exponentially greater than from cruise ships.

The daughter of the fellow who started International Cruise Victims it has been concluded (even, I believe by the family) killed herself and was not murdered as had been alleged! Now the wife of the alleged honeymoon murder victim from a few years ago states that foul play wasn't involved in that issue either. Good heavens, dozens of people jump from the Golden Gate Bridge every year (not to mention from probably dozens if not hundreds of other bridges around the country).

If the goal of the organization "is to contribute to growing a cruise industry where passengers and crew member are safe and secure from victimization while onboard a cruise ship," then where are similar guarantees for hundreds of high priced resorts, or virtually any other vacation spot either in or outside of the United States?

Finally, just how many people were reasonably proven to have been sexually assaulted (aside from just claims) or murdered on cruise ships that disembark in American ports so far this year (and I don't count "sexually harrassed" because these people would use the title of the song "If I told you you had a beautiful body would you hold it against me" as unmitigated sexual harrassment)? Does everyone realize probably over 12 million people cruised last year alone?

Just when is the public going to wake up and realize that behind ninety per cent of all of this .....(whoops... I can't use that term so I'll just say) "junk," are people with dollar signs in their eyes that will go to virtually any limit to make them materialize.

No industry is perfect as certainly holds true for the cruise industry. But good gracious, when is all of this stuff going to stop?

Sorry but as a retired lawman, I just call 'em as I see 'em and don't believe sugarcoating helps anything. And if it's stats you want, I'll throw 'em out there all day long.

Todd
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Old July 30th, 2008, 08:35 PM
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Yeah Dannyboy... I took down your copy of the lawyers web site, the "marytime" lawyer who advises people on what to do if they are sexually assaulted on a cruise ship such as "get a case number, file a report with the FBI, get as much information about the perpetrator as you can"

Those were all things designed to make it easier for that lawyer to sue the cruise line.

Dannyboy - there are a LOT of people out there trying to cash in on the deep pockets of the cruise lines, but you need to look at the facts. As Todd said, very very few such cases are actual crimes. So DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ.

Just because a person, who is currently in the process of suing a cruise line, says in a public web site that a crime occured on a cruise ship, that does NOT make it true. The vast majority of these claims are unsubstantiated. Once again, DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ!

The ICV was started by Kendall Carver, whos daughter committed suicide. The ICV co-founder were the family of George Allen Smith, his wife just came out publicly and said "there was NO FOUL PLAY"

And so, the two founders of "International Cruise Victims" were not victims at all, let alone cruise victims.

I am not sure why you are posting these things, but you don't have a receptive audience here. Not to mention it is a violation of copyright to repost entire pages from another web site here.
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Old July 31st, 2008, 09:45 AM
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The Politicians like to make a mountain out of a mole hill. They was scare tactics to show the "need" for a bill. They want to raise the balconies on cruises ship but ask yourself this question: "How many childern under the age of 14 have fallen off a balcony?" I can't think of a single one can you. It's all older drunk or suicidal adults and raising the balcony will not stop them. It's very sad to lose a loved one and sometimes we need someone to blame and I think that is what is happening here.

This bill is going through the leg process now the point is to perfect the bill. So which parts do you like? Which would you remove? I would like the peepholes in the doors, however, if the cost to the cruise lines is to high it isn't that important.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 02:05 PM
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I must say I am tired of seeing the predictable ICV airing their complaints from 2004 and 2005 repeatedly as if they are current events.

But what gets to me the most are the politicians who buy into their sensationistic claims of the ICV without seeking both sides of the story first. Yes, they invite th cruise lines to testify as well, but they treat them like they are already convicted.

How about a government hearing with an impartial third party expert who might actually give us some true perspective on whether we have a problem or not? Wouldn't that be interesting?

A policitician in this republic government of ours has a responsibility to seek out the truth and justice for the greater good of society. When they conduct these hearings and write up these bills based solely on the few isolated cases the ICV can produce you have to say "in normal society these cases statistically wouldn't even be a blip on our radar compared to other greater problems in our society." When politicians do this, it's called

"A Dog and Pony Show" - let's appeal to the sensibilities of those who are easily amused and see meaning in things that aren't there.

What is a dog & pony show? It is a performance where one seeks to fool the audience into thinking the dog or pony actually has intent and can think and feel like a human being.

The fact that these bills never go anywhere is a testament to the fact that deep down these politicians are no serious about getting them passed, but they know they look good holding the hearings, because they are for women & children, and anti-big business and "foreign" entities like ships that sail in international waters.

As I have said before, what about crimes in our own public schools? statistically that is a FAR bigger problem than crimes on cruise ships. Where are the hearings on that? What about crimes to US citizens in Mexico and South America? People are being kidnapped, tortured and murdered. Where are the hearings about that?

No - these hearings are just easy publicity foisted on an American public because the politicians know a certain percentage of people will buy into what they are doing and saying - without looking at the facts - and say "bravo." Meanwhile the rest of us who know better just shake our heads and wonder why they are wasting their time.

We are having a mortgage and real estate meltdown, people are losing their homes, and congress is looking at steroids in baseball and crimes on cruise ships.
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Old August 2nd, 2008, 02:43 PM
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Paul,

Hear! Hear!

Todd
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