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  #1 (permalink)  
Old April 7th, 2010, 12:49 AM
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Default Park West Gallery Lawsuit - MUST SEE

Park west has sued a Phoenix company for defamtion and has even taken the case all the way to a jury trial currently ongoing. They are asking for $46 million in damages.

The company being sued, Fine Art Registry, has lined up some world experts and plan to show that Park West has committed certain illegals acts while selling art aboard cruise ship. Considing there is a potential $46 million judgement here, Fine Art Registry seems to be very confident they will prevail.

Best of all - they are giving daily summaries of the trial on their website here: FAR Article: Park West Gallery Lawsuits - Art Article List

I have talked to these people on the phone years ago - when I wrote about art auctions. We knew Park West was litigious back then, but we had NO idea it would go this far.

This is extremely dramatic stuff, and I can't wait for the updates every day. For some background on this case, go to this article I wrote about cruise ship art auctions here: Cruise Ship Art Auction Controversy
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Old April 7th, 2010, 11:57 AM
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It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

I have never been a fan of Art Auctions. I have no problem if someone buys something they like but I get a laugh out of those that think they are going to find the next Picasso and be able to get it for $200.

I also have a big problem with a company that leads people to believe they will. However, that "luke warm" champagne really makes me want to buy.

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Old April 7th, 2010, 02:03 PM
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Hopefully they will lose. They are not exactly my idea of kosher. People think they are buying a real piece of art - they arn't. They don't even get the frame!!! As for their throat burning champagne. Forgetaboutit.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 03:06 PM
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I'm no PW apologist, but I'd like to find some reporting that is a little more unbiased than the defendant's.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 03:15 PM
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Years ago, on the NCL Seward, we went to an art auction,and I should have gotten college credits as an art history class, it was fabulous. and I loved every minute.

On our CM Golden Princess cruise, myself and another cm'er purchased some Judaic art. We both received what Walmart would have been embarrassed to sell..Now since I dealt with them,as they have their own gallery,after going back and forth, we ended up happy.

We have purchased art, and enjoy seeing it on our walls as a cruise memory,and nothing more. I have seen people cruise just for art, and pay big money,,poor them...

The auctioneer can make or break my going back more than once,and the retired basketball player on the Golden was the pits, and last cruise on the Liberty, I walked out after 4 minutes...

I look forward to seeing the outcome of this suit..
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Old April 7th, 2010, 04:45 PM
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for less biased reporting go to Google news and type in "Park West defamation lawsuit"

The Michigan Crane's Business newspaper wrote a piece about it a few days ago. They quoted a guy as saying he thought it was a "win win" for Park west.

My fear is that FAR thinks they can win the case by proving Park West was not fully ethical, but that is not what is being tried here, what is in question was whether they said "anything" that was false and incriminating. They could be completely right about PW's ethics and still lose.

I also fear that the jury will favor the local company - especially in Michigan where jobs are very scarce.

However, in my gut I feel the defendent deserves to win and I hope they will. I have seen PW auctioning the exact prints that are in dispute and saying there are authentic and starting the bidding at $18,000. I dont think it sold, but as they say, you won't sell many pieces of bubblegum for $1,000,000. but you only need to sell one to be set for life.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 07:03 PM
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I have a rule...I never buy art on a cruise ship.... and I never book a cruise through a local art gallery. It works well for me.
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Old April 7th, 2010, 08:21 PM
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Default Art auctions/park west

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
Years ago, on the NCL Seward, we went to an art auction,and I should have gotten college credits as an art history class, it was fabulous. and I loved every minute.

On our CM Golden Princess cruise, myself and another cm'er purchased some Judaic art. We both received what Walmart would have been embarrassed to sell..Now since I dealt with them,as they have their own gallery,after going back and forth, we ended up happy.

We have purchased art, and enjoy seeing it on our walls as a cruise memory,and nothing more. I have seen people cruise just for art, and pay big money,,poor them...

The auctioneer can make or break my going back more than once,and the retired basketball player on the Golden was the pits, and last cruise on the Liberty, I walked out after 4 minutes...

I look forward to seeing the outcome of this suit..
Have to agree with Fern...neither Parrot Pop or I are gamblers or serious or non serious/heavy drinkers..but we from the beginning of our cruising days (before Park West) enjoy buying a souvenier of our cruises and it so happens to have been art..We started way back on the ROYAL Majesty with a Montreios.. and have bought Kniff, Tarkey, Chen...Steinmetz, etc. etc. The pieces grace our home. We have not been able to buy Peter Maxx, nor any of the high end pieces like the Picasso or Miro that are showing up.. The Steinmetz picture that we love was bought on our anniversary on a cruise ship.and shows a couple with a cruise ship in the background.. From our bathrooms, to our living room, to our bedroom we have wonderful souveniers thanks now to Park West. Yes, we have found an obnoxious woman auctioneer, yet we have found the most informative people and have learned quite a bit about the artists and their backgrounds.. As everybody says... do not buy for investment..buy a piece because it "talks" to you..and it's affordable.. Perhaps...even though we have pictures not even framed yet..something might hit our eye (and our pocketbook)..on one of our next trips..Champagne has nothing to do with it.. for us.. I'd rather look at one more new picture than get bar bill for $$$ which was for a moment...or with our rotten luck..see our hard earned $$$ lost at the gambling tables...Often I have found myself bidding against decorators who were going to resell to their clients...(they told me) Oh yes..and please don't think I'm going after Princess, but on our Princess cruise there wasn't one piece I would have offered $1.00 for.. Parrot Pop went to the auction and walked out because he thought the Auctioneer was so bad...
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Old April 7th, 2010, 08:33 PM
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OT: Just an FYI to Parrot Mom, Trip and I are not the same person ! We do generally agree, but we're seperate people! Trip is in Massachusetts, I'm in Arkansas!
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Old April 7th, 2010, 08:40 PM
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Cool Heat wave

Quote:
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OT: Just an FYI to Parrot Mom, Trip and I are not the same person ! We do generally agree, but we're seperate people! Trip is in Massachusetts, I'm in Arkansas!
Sorry Fern.. but the unexpected 90 degree heat wave has gotten to me here in MA. but y ou are both lovely ladies...even if I'm having a senior moment..
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Old April 7th, 2010, 08:48 PM
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............!
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Old April 8th, 2010, 04:39 AM
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I believe this could get very interesting...What, you don't even get the frame?? I never knew that, I think in some cases the frame they show the pic in may have been worth more than the print?
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Old April 8th, 2010, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna View Post
I believe this could get very interesting...What, you don't even get the frame?? I never knew that, I think in some cases the frame they show the pic in may have been worth more than the print?
YOu're right of course - the frame is usually worth more than the painting/picture or whatever it actually is.
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Old April 8th, 2010, 07:08 AM
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Default Frames

There have been a couple of instances, okay more than a couple...lol. where we have bid on "take off" which are pictures that are already framed. We have been fortunate to have a frame shop close by that did things very affordably.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 12:17 PM
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I have no problem with anyone buying a Tarkay or any other reasonably nice piece at a cruise ship art auction. They seem to be reasonably priced and I know Tarkay is still alive so he wuldd knoww if he was being ripped off.

The "take off" pieces are the best deals, IMHO, because you get the frame and do not pay shipping charges.

In fact, one of the most common complaints about these art auctions is the unexpected charges on the final bill when you don't carry it off - framing, shipping, appraisal, handling -- which all together can easily add up to over $100 easily. There is even some kind of "buyers fee" of 5% which they hardly even explain.

Even the "free gift," if you agree to have it shipped will have many of these charges. So much for "free." That is why you fill out a credit card form before you start bidding.

I am sorry, but I don't think the cruise lines should have nipped these auctions in the bud when the first complaints started rolling in. This is one area where it is all to easy to find fault.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 02:44 PM
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Default Framing

We never have pictures framed, but you should see my "take offs"...lol What cruisers don't realize is that once they bid and buy.. thats it....no changing your mind.. I've seen cruisers spend over.. and Im serious $25,000.00 at a sitting. Paul.. the magic word is "reasonably" priced and often in bidding there are people who get carried away.. On an NCL cruise met two elderly ladies, one loved Erte and Betty Boop.. it wasn't until I knew her a bit better that when she paid $7,000.00 for magnificent (woman in costume) Erte...I knew she could afford it.. IMO Erte signed everything before he died and most of his work is overpriced. There is one living artist whose works are imo very corny but there is a market his work.. if he touches a brush stroke to the print..UP, UP, UP IT GOES.. he was interviewed once by 60 Minutes.. Personally, I wouldnt give him wall space... BTW do you know that you can have a P.W. credit card and pay out without interest for a year?
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Old April 9th, 2010, 03:17 PM
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Paul, the 5% you are referring to is normal for all auctions - doesn't matter what they are selling. I used to work p/t for an auctioneer who, for a long time wouldn't charge that but finally did. It's a normal practice, at least here in Canada, and legal.

The other thing to watch for, (and I would guess is not on ships) are shills. These people are with the auctioneer. The sit in the audience and bid the prices up. Once they are where the auctioneer wants them, they stop bidding.

I wasn't privy to who his shills were - he never even admitted to them but after a few weeks I was able to figure out who they were.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 12:51 PM
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The Park West "user fee" is 15%, not 5%.

I think they are a bunch of crooks and I have gone to the Fine Art web site to watch the videos. In one of them she thnks CruiseMates for carrying the story.

HEY _ this is a BIG deal. If Fine Art wins this case (by all things good they should) then Park West will be basically be found guilty of selling fraudulent art. Criminal investigations could follow and people could go to prison.

I think anyone who would lay out $20,000 for a painting on a cruise ship without doing a TON of research first is crazy, but it appears the people who got taken in were persuaded by the auctioneers that it was a great investment.

I have been to these auctions and to art galleries on land. It is always the same pitch "these are only going to get more valuable."

But at the same time you can buy the same artwork on land for much less quite often.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 01:15 PM
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Paul: You have your own little soap opera playing out. Is it easier to follow than LOST?

Thanks for the report--I'd missed this story.
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Old April 15th, 2010, 02:33 PM
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Mfn....Which website did you go to to see these videos?
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Old April 15th, 2010, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip View Post
Mfn....Which website did you go to to see these videos?
The one that Paul put in his original post.

FAR Article: Park West Gallery Lawsuits - Art Article List

Take care,
Mike
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Old April 15th, 2010, 02:57 PM
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Don't tell anyone, but I have my own video of a Park West auctioneer selling on of the Dalai Prints that is likely being contested. I recorded him asking $18,000 for it and saying it is "very very very very collectable."

If you have not read the articles I reference in earlier posts here and in the article on our front page I really recommend that you do.

As someone just said - thsi si a MAJOR story that no one else seems to be covering. Can you imagine what happens if a jury finds Park West has been selling forgeries for 10s of thous?
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Old April 15th, 2010, 02:57 PM
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Duh I have been having puter issues all day, but, leave it to me, to have a double voice over on this you tube video I was able to hear her say thanks to Paul/Cruisemates though!
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 09:28 AM
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The jury found that Fine Arts Registry did not defame Park West Gallery

Jury: Park West to pay $500,000 for trademark law violation - Detroit News and Information - Crain's Detroit Business

I'm not sure I understand the $500K award for trademark infringement, but I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 10:23 AM
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Default Parkwest

Hi all,
I hope this will put an end to this "art show" on every ship.There are art galleries in any town,cruise ship is not the place for selling supposedly arts.This is my opinion,sorry for those you think otherwise.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 10:34 AM
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Cool Park west

if anybody really believes that these are valuable and MUST buy.. I have a bridge I'd like to talk to them about..and if a few free glasses of champagne are used to soften you up..then there is a problem.. We buy or have bought because it's a great souvenier of our cruise...and we like it.. and no way, no how would I spend over a few hundred $$ for a piece..It comes down to the fact that its entertainment...and you should sit on your hands..lol
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 10:35 AM
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I agree - the art auctions are the bain of the cruise industry. They are tacky carnival barker type games where the player can't win and they should be banned. I am all for cruise lines making money, but not by bilking innocent people out of their life savings.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
I agree - the art auctions are the bain of the cruise industry. They are tacky carnival barker type games where the player can't win and they should be banned. I am all for cruise lines making money, but not by bilking innocent people out of their life savings.

Amen brother......
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 12:14 PM
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They started out simple and fair enough - mostly selling limited edition signed prints by up & coming artists. But it appears they just got greedy when they realized people were gullible enough to believe a former bartender in a tuxedo telling them a $100,000 investment in a piece of paper was a sure way to secure their retirement. It is disgusting really, and it makes me embarassed to be affiliated with the cruise industry.

I love cruising and the quality cruise lines offer in a true value proposition. These art auctions go entirely against the grain of that philosophy. Too bad they didn't realize a long time ago that they wouldn't be able to hide what has been going on here. MAYBE in the days before the Internet, but come on, with the Internet people now know they have been bilked and they are going to be very MAD about it.

There are several more lawsuits to come and I predict they are not going to be pretty - especially when they are defending themselves outside of the state of Michigan.

If I had a cruise line I would be distancing myself from PWG immediately. I mean, is the "greater fool" theory going to trump the power of instant information? No - everyone is on the Internet these days, there is no place for these conmen to hide.

This could even go beyond civil court - it could go criminal if the government finds a true art expert who decides to bring charges. Even if that seems remote in the U.S. it is not farfetched in Europe at all. Those countries take art very seriously and selling fraudulent pieces is a serious crime.
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Old April 22nd, 2010, 12:17 PM
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I'm glad that Park West has been officially exposed. Perhaps I can now walk through the passageway without tripping on the "limited edition" lithographs that are stuck in people's way.

Take care,
Mike
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