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Old January 17th, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Default Will Concordia change the way you cruise?

I think for most of us, it is a given that we will cruise again.

This event will still be fairly fresh for me when we sail in less than 2 months.

DH and I were talking last night about our emergency action plan. We agreed that we always need to have one from now.

We agreed:
-never go back to the cabin.
-do not wait anywhere on deck (dangers of flying pool chairs etc.)
-have a plan for how we react to an emergency when we are with the kids, or when we are apart from the kids.
-have a pre-arranged meeting point as close to our must station as possible which, if possible, is a place we can hide with our kids. Our kids are young, 4 and 5, and we need to keep them save and avoid a situation where they may be trampled during mass hysteria.
-In the event we get separated, have a pre-arranged meeting spot on land [example -meet at the closest public washroom to wherever we are evacuated to]


We were also thinking it might be safer to not try and fight our way onto that first lifeboat, and to stay safe in our hiding spot, until we can safely get onto a lifeboat.

I shudder to think how the kid's club staff would react to an emergency with so few staff, and so many kids, and how to safely move those kids to the muster station when panic abounds.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 11:44 AM
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People die in automobile accidents every day ,we do not stop driving .Nor do we stop flying ,taking buses or trains .Cruising fatalities are very rare .
I will not stop cruising . However ,I will not be making plans as to what to do in the event of a disaster . Whatever happens ,happens .
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Old January 17th, 2012, 11:52 AM
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Things read well, on the back of your cabin door...what to do, & when to do it. With an emergancy at sea, with the ship upright, things would be much easier, not being topsy turvy, and, people seemingly in more control.

Reality presents an entire different set of behavior, reactions,and situations onboard, that can set off panic, as we have seen.

One thing that should be on the top if everyones packing list is a small, powerful flashlight.

Each set of circumstances will bring a different set of reactions. I applaude you if you do follow your list,and checking the things on it, won't hurt, and, may give you peace of mind..I doubt this will change many people's minds, on how they cruise.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:00 PM
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No, it will not.

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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:11 PM
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Henry - I agree, a car accident would not stop me from driving. But there are so many more dangers at sea.


Like I said, the event won't stop me from cruising by any means. But I'm certainly much more aware of the dangers/risks. And I know I have a much greater chance of having my cruise ruined from Norwalk than I do a disaster such as Concordia.


We have an emergency evacuation plan for our house (my five year old asked us to do this!) .... we've never thought to do one when we sail. Historically, I'm the first person to complain about Muster, which is usually holding me up from getting to dinner or a massage.

I know after 9/11, (at least for a short while) it changed the way I fly. I'm back to mind wandering off and not paying attention to the flight attendants.



Trip - do you keep your flashlight with you at all times?
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:13 PM
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NO not really. The risk have always been there this accident is just bringing them out into the light with this terrible accident. In fact they might change a few things for the better now who knows.I feel that people should take a little responability for there own saftey and not rely 100% on other people.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:14 PM
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After this incident, I will be looking for a small, powerful one, that will slip into the bag I carry at night, so yes I will, starting in March.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:38 PM
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Henry - I agree, a car accident would not stop me from driving. But there are so many more dangers at sea.
I have no quibbles with anybody's personal scheme to add levels of safety to their cruise agendas.

I'm not sure that there are actually "more" dangers at sea, perhaps just more complicated ones. But when I consider that a dear friend just proudly informed me that the State of California has sent him a new drivers license that will keep him behind the wheel through age 98, well, you know. . .

I don't know how much ongoing training ship captains and other officers receive, but if it's anything like what airline pilots get, it's pretty comprehensive and pretty often. There's still always the pilot who screws up (Colgan/Buffalo comes readily to mind), and obviously there will sometimes be the ship's captain who does the same.

Although I must say that if the latest reports are correct, what this guy did is seriously "off the charts" both literally and figuratively. To quote a standard pilot's saying, "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots." Same goes for sailors, methinks.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:48 PM
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I think the majority of people will continue to cruise, but with more caution to what could happen. I will not be obsessed with fear, but with this incident and the recent one with MSC, our awareness has been heightened.
On a plane, I've become more aware. I wear cotten clothing , nothing that will melt onto the skin, I count my seat to the nearest exit in case of darkness or panic.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:53 PM
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What I meant about the comparison to the car accidenct is that for most people, in the event of a car accident ....help would be there in mnutes. The emergency personnel are fighting to get you out ....not you fighting to get out. On a ship, you are 1 of 4000 (more/less) fighting for a spot on a lifeboat. For those that jump, there are risks of drowing, freezing, sharks etc.

They are two very different things. I think a better comparison would be to being stuck in a sky scraper which is burning, and fighting to evacuate. (9/11) comes to mind.

My question was more about what one might do/plan differently on a next cruise to keep one's self or one's family safe. ex. Trip's plan to always carry a flashlight.

I think in my naivety, I always just figured .... the Titanic was a lifetime ago ....today, I would just calmly go to my muster station and wait for ship's personnel to get me safetly off the ship. I'm less naive about that now, and realize I have to take some responsibility for how I protect my family waiting for the ship's personnel to do their job.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 12:55 PM
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I know it all flew out the window with Concordia .... but as a rule of thumb, is "women and children first" still practiced?
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Old January 17th, 2012, 01:16 PM
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I know it all flew out the window with Concordia .... but as a rule of thumb, is "women and children first" still practiced?
I dont know ! But it should be along with the elderly and handicapped.But I feel that we have become a dog eat dog I want mine first society and thats a sad thing
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Old January 17th, 2012, 01:51 PM
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I dont know ! But it should be along with the elderly and handicapped.But I feel that we have become a dog eat dog I want mine first society and thats a sad thing
Definately now a dog eat dog society. In an emergency, I doubt if any will stand by politely waiting for the next needy person to arrive. If I'm at a boat, and they aren't loading a needy person, I'm ON!
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Old January 17th, 2012, 02:42 PM
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What about the directive that people were given to wait in their cabin.

Would you follow/challenge/ignore?

Given that I generally cruise with my kids ..... all other logic/reasoning aside, I would not go to my cabin and wait .... I would need to find my way to my kids.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 02:55 PM
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Women and children first is no longer the rule. The goal is to keep families together and not separate them. In "normal" circumstances there are enough lifeboats to accommodate all passengers and along with the life rafts there is more than enough capacity for all on board.

The problems come into effect when the lifeboats on one side or both sides cannot be launched. That is when hard decisions and probably panic come into the picture. It would be a mad house.

One of the major failures of the Concordia was that they practiced the Cool Hand Luke scenario. There was a "Failure To Communicate". Announcements and guidance from the bridge and from officers with blow horns can do a lot to alleviate panic. If people think someone is in charge and knows what to do they will calm down and do what they are told. With no communication and no one taking charge it's chaos.

I know that from now on I will be more skeptical of the crew and the officers and how they will conduct themselves in the event of an emergency and be prepared if they fail. My trust has been shaken and it will probably not be easily restored to its previous level.

Take care,
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Old January 17th, 2012, 03:29 PM
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I know that from now on I will be more skeptical of the crew and the officers and how they will conduct themselves in the event of an emergency and be prepared if they fail. My trust has been shaken and it will probably not be easily restored to its previous level.

Take care,
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Thank you Mike - that expresses how I'm feeling and why I posted this thread. I'm sure in time - I may feel differently, but for now my trust has been shaken.
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Old January 17th, 2012, 03:52 PM
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For the forseable future, I can bet anyone walking onboard is thinking of what happened, and ,the loss of lives......how can you not?
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Old January 17th, 2012, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
Women and children first is no longer the rule. The goal is to keep families together and not separate them. In "normal" circumstances there are enough lifeboats to accommodate all passengers and along with the life rafts there is more than enough capacity for all on board.

The problems come into effect when the lifeboats on one side or both sides cannot be launched. That is when hard decisions and probably panic come into the picture. It would be a mad house.

One of the major failures of the Concordia was that they practiced the Cool Hand Luke scenario. There was a "Failure To Communicate". Announcements and guidance from the bridge and from officers with blow horns can do a lot to alleviate panic. If people think someone is in charge and knows what to do they will calm down and do what they are told. With no communication and no one taking charge it's chaos.

I know that from now on I will be more skeptical of the crew and the officers and how they will conduct themselves in the event of an emergency and be prepared if they fail. My trust has been shaken and it will probably not be easily restored to its previous level.

Take care,
Mike

On 9/11 ,a friend of mine died at the WTC .He could have left with others but chose to stay and help his co-workers survive . Would you say this was an act of suicide ,I see it as an act of bravery . I would like to think that if I was working there I would have done the same thing .No person should have the right to dictate what another does . If I was on a ship sinking and forced to get on a lifeboat that would be a violation of my civil rights .
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Old January 18th, 2012, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike M View Post
Women and children first is no longer the rule. The goal is to keep families together and not separate them. In "normal" circumstances there are enough lifeboats to accommodate all passengers and along with the life rafts there is more than enough capacity for all on board.

The problems come into effect when the lifeboats on one side or both sides cannot be launched. That is when hard decisions and probably panic come into the picture. It would be a mad house.

One of the major failures of the Concordia was that they practiced the Cool Hand Luke scenario. There was a "Failure To Communicate". Announcements and guidance from the bridge and from officers with blow horns can do a lot to alleviate panic. If people think someone is in charge and knows what to do they will calm down and do what they are told. With no communication and no one taking charge it's chaos.

I know that from now on I will be more skeptical of the crew and the officers and how they will conduct themselves in the event of an emergency and be prepared if they fail. My trust has been shaken and it will probably not be easily restored to its previous level.

Take care,
Mike
But isnt that a good thing to be a little more prepared and a little less trusting? Not to the point where it would consume your thinking tho.But just to the point where if there was an emergency and the system failed you would have a least some idea what to do and have a plan of your own?
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Old January 18th, 2012, 12:04 PM
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What about the directive that people were given to wait in their cabin.

Would you follow/challenge/ignore?

Given that I generally cruise with my kids ..... all other logic/reasoning aside, I would not go to my cabin and wait .... I would need to find my way to my kids.
I think I would be afraid to stay in my cabin. It seems too confined. Plus, especially on lower decks, I have visions of the Titanic movie lower decks filling with water.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 08:50 PM
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Fox News.com had a poll the other day asking if the Concordia disaster will effect cruisers. The one stat that I remember seeing is that 37% polled who have cruised before said they wouldn't cruise again while something like 46% said it was a fluke and they would cruise again.

Personally, D/W and I booked a cruise on Tuesday, so you know my answer to that question.

In reality, I bet more people die in car accidents going to or home from a cruise then actually die on cruise ships.
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Old January 18th, 2012, 09:06 PM
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Quote:
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Fox News.com had a poll the other day asking if the Concordia disaster will effect cruisers. The one stat that I remember seeing is that 37% polled who have cruised before said they wouldn't cruise again while something like 46% said it was a fluke and they would cruise again.

Personally, D/W and I booked a cruise on Tuesday, so you know my answer to that question.

In reality, I bet more people die in car accidents going to or home from a cruise then actually die on cruise ships.
I hadn't seen that poll but the 37% of people who have cruised is a high number to me. Even if half of these (18.5%) don't cruise again that is a big hit to the industry.

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Old January 19th, 2012, 03:29 AM
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I am sure of that number, 37% because it surprised me. I believe that it is just a knee jerk reaction by some people. Either way, I believe the cruise industry will take a hit, esp among new potential cruisers.
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Old January 19th, 2012, 07:51 AM
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But isnt that a good thing to be a little more prepared and a little less trusting? Not to the point where it would consume your thinking tho.But just to the point where if there was an emergency and the system failed you would have a least some idea what to do and have a plan of your own?
I was a full trust person, thinking nothing will ever happen. My awareness of changes in the normal flow of things will likely bring questions in my mind. When I'm in the low decks, specifically in a porthole cabin, how would I react to the noises of anchors and thruster sounds now. Before, I knew those sounds meant coming into port and never gave it a thought. Now, I would hear and feel the difference and hope that the ship was coming to port, as that is what usually wakes me. I would be reassured only when I peeked out the window.
Has this event affected me? Of course. Will it prevent me from cruising? No. It will raise my awareness of things though. I know the Concordia was an isolated event, but it's an event that should never have occurred. But, since it has happened, the positive outcome of it all is it woke us all up to not be so trusting, that we must develop our own plan to not trap ourselves in a potentially dangerous situation.
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Old January 21st, 2012, 04:26 PM
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Luckily the vast majority of the American Public has the attention span of a flea.
Everyone was so worked up last week about the Costa accident. Most have already forgotten about it.
By next week, some American politician will do or say something very stupid and everyone will be focused on that.
The following week another sports figure will be accused of molesting more children, and everyone will get more excited about that.
Costa is very safe on this issue.

In a recent Gallup Poll, several hundred thousand Americans were asked to name the Three Stooges. 5 out of 6 were able to remember all three names. In the same poll, the same people were asked to name any three of the 9 US Supreme Court Justices. Only 1 out of 6 was able to come up with any three names.
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Old January 21st, 2012, 05:49 PM
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No Henry, I will not stop cruising, but I hope the cruise lines will take this event very seriously and take some serious steps to make sure it never happens again. You say that people die every day in automobile accidents -- but far fewer die in car wrecks today than in the past because of things like:
  • hydraulic brakes
  • seat belts
  • airbags
  • interstate highways
  • properly engineered passenger compartments
Safety is not an accident. It is something you achieve. And when it comes to operating a 100,000+ ton ship on the high seas -- foolishness is not an option.


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People die in automobile accidents every day ,we do not stop driving .Nor do we stop flying ,taking buses or trains .Cruising fatalities are very rare .
I will not stop cruising . However ,I will not be making plans as to what to do in the event of a disaster . Whatever happens ,happens .
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Old January 21st, 2012, 06:09 PM
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Yes it will

This year I will increase from my normal 3-4 to 4-5 the prices are getting very competitive.
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Old January 21st, 2012, 06:21 PM
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I am still surprised at how the ship sank so quickly after a relatively minor incident, it obviously wasn't minor of course but I thought for a modern ship to get into that much trouble it would be some sort of catastrophe like a collision.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 04:32 AM
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I am still surprised at how the ship sank so quickly after a relatively minor incident, it obviously wasn't minor of course but I thought for a modern ship to get into that much trouble it would be some sort of catastrophe like a collision.
It was a collison thats what tore a hole in her hull.
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Old January 22nd, 2012, 05:45 AM
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It was a collison thats what tore a hole in her hull.
I was meaning a collision with another ship or unseen object at sea at speed resulting in a catastrophic failure of the integrity of the hull, not scraping a rock at relatively slow speed close to land.
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