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Old April 5th, 2012, 11:02 AM
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Default Religious service on ships

Do you attend religious services on cruiseships ? My wife and I always do .We find that there are people from all over the world and find it very interesting .
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Old April 5th, 2012, 11:20 AM
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I haven't seen one scheduled on a cruise ship in many years. I know some do private services.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 04:05 PM
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The last time I even knew of services taking place, was on the old Westerdam, there was a Rabbi on during Passover.I did not go to the services. I thought clergy was onboard only for holidays...not a weekly occurance. I do know there was a company that signed up, and placed clergy on board ships.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 06:55 PM
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No, just don't get religion at all.
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Old April 5th, 2012, 08:56 PM
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I've been known to go to Shabbos services on Friday night, but it's not a regular thing.

On one of our cruise's we had a Cantor onboard with his service dog. It was the first (and probably the last) time Shabbos was observed with a Cantor and a dog! I'm very glad I didn't miss it!
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Old April 5th, 2012, 10:34 PM
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On my most recent cruise services were led by a husband and wife . Afterward one of the people present suggested that we give our first names and the city we live in .
When I replied NY and that I grew up in Crown Heights Brooklyn I was immediately asked if I was ever part of the Hasidic community .I replied that I lived there before there was such a community there.
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Old April 6th, 2012, 08:00 AM
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Our Princess cruise had two Sunday services lead by crew members, no clergy
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Old April 7th, 2012, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry43 View Post
Do you attend religious services on cruiseships ? My wife and I always do .We find that there are people from all over the world and find it very interesting .
NO INTEREST in religion on a cruise ship or on land!
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Old April 7th, 2012, 02:29 PM
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Interesting in that on land I am not interested that much but on sea ,I am.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 06:49 AM
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My name is Michael Wilcox, and my wife and myself are Catholics.

I just got off the presently ongoing, Scandinavian cruise, for the Queen Mary 2.

We were given an "incentive" to leave the ship, PRIOR TO the end of the tour.

We had to spend over $40,000.00 for a cruise, to find out after we gave Cunard our money, that they don't like Catholics or to provide passengers with a Catholic Mass...on our two previous cruises with them, they did, but we were told that there is a "new policy", when the ship's line declined to give us or other Catholic passengers what they promise in their offer.

What do you think of my experience as a Catholic aboard this Cunard line cruise ship ?
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Old August 21st, 2012, 06:57 AM
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This is how the "policy" worked for us.

We paid for our trip December 2011, under the distinct impression there would be a Priest for our previous two cruises on QM2.

The "old policy" was in effect after we left NY on August 3 2012. (see attached)

There was only one mass, due to the "courtesy" of a priest who happened to be a passenger...after that no other Catholic daily or Sunday masses.

On August 5 we were told there was a "new policy" (See attachment.) in effect for one month previous to our cruise embarking date...NO ONE WAS GIVEN NOTICE OF IT !

THAT'S RIGHT, 2 POLICIES ONLINE AT THE SAME TIME !

DID SOMEONE SAY "BREACH OF CONTRACT" AND "BAIT AND SWITCH" ???


Note that the dates, where these policies were in effect...AUG 10...is noted in the lower right hand corner of the attachments.

We had to spend over $40,000.00 for a cruise, to find out after we gave Cunard our money, AND WHEN WE WERE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ATLANTIC OCEAN, that they don't like Catholics or don't want to provide passengers with a Catholic Mass.

There were two priests from the UK, were onboard from NY, as passengers. From South Wark, UK. FATHER JOHN O'TOOLE OF ST. GEORGES CATHEDRAL, AND MONSIGNOR GERRY EWING OF ST. THOMAS A BECKET OF WANDSWORTH.

Father Ewing was listed in the ship's "DAILY PROGRAMME" for August 5 and 6, 2012, to conduct Mass. He conducted NO mass on both days.

Father Ewing told me and others, after Sunday mass, that "he would have concelebrated mass, but I didn't have the vestments". The entertainment staff of the ship supplied the various accoutrement, including one vestment, which Father O'Toole used for the one mass he did for Catholic passengers FOR THE ENTIRE TRIP !

Father O'Toole officiated on Sunday, August 5,said Mass for approximately 100 people, ONLY ONE DAY, during the ship's passage from New York to Southhampton; it was on the Sunday, and third day of the voyage.

They both declined to say Mass for the Catholic passengers on the third day, and the rest of the voyage, where they got off at Southhampton UK.

FATHER JOHN O'TOOLE FROM ST. GEORGE'S CATHEDRAL SOUTH WARK PARISH, where he serves as Cathedral Dean, told those participating at the end Sunday Mass, aboard, on August 5, and to me personally when he didn't show up at Monday mass in the AM on August 6, and, that they "didn't have 'an arrangement' with the ship to do Mass and we were to
complain to the Purser's Office, aboard ship".

Catholic passengers were told by an EDWARD MOFFAT, ASST. ENTERTAINMENT DIRECTOR, that Cunard had a "new policy that started one month ago" (prior to August 6), whereby the ship line will NOT hire Catholic priests to give mass to passengers.

This same man, EDWARD MOFFAT told me, when I was very upset in my conversation with him, about no mass, that "Catholics don't act that way". I invited him to tell the assembled just how Catholics are supposed to act, but he declined.

On our two previous cruises with them, they did, but we were told that there is a "new policy", when the ship's line declined to give us or other Catholic passengers what they promise in their offer.

WHY DIDN'T FATHER JOHN O'TOOLE AND MONSIGNOR GERRY EWING, REGULARLY, PERFORM MASS FOR THE CATHOLICS ONBOARD, PRIOR TO DISEMBARKING IN SOUTH HAMPTON ?

On two occasions, Father O'Toole told those at Sunday August 5 mass, and told me personally, he and Monsignor Ewing had "no arrangement" with Cunard to perform mass.

Father O'Toole only performed one Sunday mass for Catholics AND HE AND MONSIGNOR EWING, REFUSED TO PERFORM MASS, FROM AUGUST 6 TO THE END OF THE TRIP !

I have supporting materials that would give you an idea of what happened. I have documentation in the form of two letters, from the Chief Purser of the Queen Mary 2, about this, that make interesting and entertaining reading. I can send you my email thread, of conversations between me and my travel agent, giving you an idea of what went on, in this issue. And I have some other interesting material that figures into this incident, that may be intriguing to you.

WHY DIDN'T FATHER JOHN O'TOOLE AND MONSIGNOR GERRY EWING, REGULARLY, PERFORM MASS FOR THE CATHOLICS ONBOARD, TO CATHOLICS WHO WERE PROMISED MASS ?

WHY IS CARNIVAL US/UK NOT HIRING CATHOLIC PRIESTS FOR IT'S CATHOLIC PASSENGERS, AND FOR IT'S CRUISES, ON A PERMANENT BASIS ?

DOES CARNIVAL US/UK HATE CATHOLICS ?

WHY DOES CARNIVAL US/UK HIRE AN EMPLOYEE LIKE DAVID MOFFAT (ASST. ENTERTAINMENT DIRECTOR, QUEEN MARY 2) WHO DOESN'T LIKE CATHOLICS AND VERBAL ABUSES THEIR FAITH ?

WHICH RELIGION WILL CARNIVAL US/UK DISCRIMINATE AGAINST NEXT ?
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Old August 21st, 2012, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
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On my most recent cruise services were led by a husband and wife . Afterward one of the people present suggested that we give our first names and the city we live in .
When I replied NY and that I grew up in Crown Heights Brooklyn I was immediately asked if I was ever part of the Hasidic community .I replied that I lived there before there was such a community there.
Sounds a little tasteless...it's like they are "taking Names", doesnt it.

Well, if it's any consolation, after the incident I posted about, at least the assistant entertainment director took names and stateroom numbers...like they were going to round up the Catholics, and do God knows WHAT ! It made it all "official" and everything.

The "you are not acting like a Catholic is supposed to" comment to me and the other mass attendees, when I challenge him, was just the thing to say, you know ?

It all made you feel like, a recreation of the "roundups" for the concentration camps...these ship lines are INSENSITIVE CLODS, if anything !
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Old August 21st, 2012, 07:53 AM
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I see no discrimination.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 01:48 PM
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Not so long ago, most mass market cruise lines offered regular scheduled religious services on most ships.

But passengers told us that they wanted cheaper and cheaper cruises.

The passenger cabins occupied by clergy were not making any revenue for us.
Most cruise lines cancelled the clergy in order to sell those cabins every week.
The additional revenue gained from those cabins allows us to avoid raising fares and prices. It is sometimes a good idea to be careful what you wish for.

Currently, Holland America Line is the only mass market line still featuring priests, pastors, and rabbis on most sailings.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 02:05 PM
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On my cruise last month there was a clergyman who received a free cruise for a week but he had to perform a religious service every day.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers Fan View Post
Do you attend religious services on cruiseships ? My wife and I always do .We find that there are people from all over the world and find it very interesting .
Princess holds catholic mass on a regular interval. Since many of the staff are catholic a priest actually resides on board . On some cruises protestant minister will a service on Sunday . On Jewish holidays a Rabbi was on board to hold services. All passenger religious services where printed in the daily schedule.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 03:12 PM
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When I worked on cruise ships in the previous millennium it was usual to have a priest or rabbi (or both) onboard the offer religious services. I thought it was nicve of the cruise line to make such arrangements, but I just don't understand anyone who insists cruise lines are obligated to providing a priest.

If you went to a ski resort, health spa, etc... any other vacation, you would not expect them to provide a priest.

Now, I do understand the concept of feeling disappointed or cheated if you had been told a priest would be onboard, and you found out later the policy had changed, however Cunard refunded the money. I am sorry there was a misunderstanding, but how was Cunard to know you were expecting a priest to be onboard - they are not mindreaders. Were they supposed to contact each of the 100,000 people they currently have booked on a future cruise just to tell them about a change in policy that will likely only affect a small number people?

I have full respect for the right of people to have religious beliefs and do not feel it is my business to make any comments on my personal feelings about religion in general or any one else's religion.

I just think that religion is a personal decision and it seems inappropriate to make a public case out an issue that is personal. Cunard's decision not to have a priest onboard is not discrimination or religious favoritism, it is actually the opposite. I see the people who feel they are owed a religious service by a cruise line as the ones who are reverse-discriminating, much like a person who might expect special dispension because of the color of their skin or other personal attributes.

That being said - I do recall that Seabourn had a non-denominational religious service onboard (conducted by the cruise director) when I sailed last October. Similarly, I recall very similar services on other ships (non-denominational).

But I just don't see it as the responsibility of any business to provide religious services for anyone. Religion is a personal practice, not a public one.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 03:20 PM
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Most cruise lines have clergy for their staff . The clergy in some cases it is a crew member.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamloops Cruiser View Post
Most cruise lines have clergy for their staff . The clergy in some cases it is a crew member.
Yes - but it needs to be fully understood by the public that it is purely a voluntary role the "clergy" takes on - it is not a "job" or a staff position, even if it is conducted by a crewmember.

The point is that I just don't feel people should have expectations that a cruise line is obligated to provide services they have been giving to people as a courtesy.

It is similar to medical personnel - they are there to help, to do what they can, but they are not running a hospital. Even if they are on staff their role is limited to what can be done, and if something cannot be done it does not mean the cruise line is negligent.
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Old August 21st, 2012, 05:00 PM
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Religion & Politics are two no-nos in a group discussion.
So, I will not get involved.

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Old August 21st, 2012, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFartCruiser View Post
Religion & Politics are two no-nos in a group discussion.
So, I will not get involved.

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Considering that there are many political posts on CM ,I see nothing wrong in discussing religion .

I would rather not discuss death or taxes .
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Old August 21st, 2012, 09:01 PM
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I think the Priest's remark was totally uncalled for, but, I think the statement by the cruise line,[2nd copy] and, your cruise contract with them, allows them the ability to make changes to the cruise, without fault.



While you had services on prior cruises, and this cruise didn't work out with your desire for religous services, I honestly can't see why you hold the line resposible. I don't see in any way, that the cruise line hated Catholics.



I hope with all this, that you at least, were able to enjoy some parts of your cruise.
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