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  #31 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2003, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

i think that the solution is very very simple, each cruise lines needs to establish a Uniform Code of Conduct, include this document with all other cruise documents, and the key is to Enforce these rules, and post them on the back of the Bathroom Door in bold print. That way when a child or adult breaks the basic rules and have to deal with the consequences there will be no one to blame but themselves.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2003, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

Lisa:

There's the problem. They all have rules; they just don't enfore them (or at least enfore them haphazardly).

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2003, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

I doubt that making up a code of conduct would help. Why should responsible people have to have a conduct code printed up and given to them?
Responsible people don't need one, and the irresponsible parents wouldn't go by it anyway.
The key is for the cruise lines to get the backbone to enforce their own rules. Until they do, it will become steadily worse. As I have said ( IMHO) when the cruise lines get hit hard in the pocketbook over something stupid, only then will they take notice.

Just another word or two while I'm on the soapbox---- I just was reading on the Royal Carb. board someone posted that they had two teens and they never saw them during the day but knew they were ok and not in any trouble. ---- Is that not what of which we speak, at least partly? How can anyone keep up with what their kids are doing if they never see them?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2003, 04:44 PM
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Default Re: Re: Kids Gone wild

See what tolerance can do for you? Marc and I have made friends!

The problem cruise lines face with enforcing rules is that this requires a substantial enforcement body. They could hire a goodly number of visible security officers watching with a disapproving eye to act as a deterrant, but this would really put a dent in the friendly atmosphere.

As a parent I would suggest that one obvious way to cut down on the problem of kids running around unsupervised would be to make sure there are supervised kids' activities available during all daylight hours, and that the number of people on the childcare staff increase proportionately to the number of children on board during school holidays. Almost all shipboard child activity programs close for 2-3 hours midday and early evening. Obviously the staff need a chance to eat lunch and dinner, but staggered work shifts could take care of this. Most kids and teens would rather take part in activities geared to their age groups than hang around the more mature passengers who cast a disapproving eye on their behavior, but if the kid's center or teen program is closed, that's not an option.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2003, 06:06 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

I know this subject has been beaten to death but I *have* to add my two (or three) cents. I was on a cruise that sailed over Easter weekend last year. Holy cow!! I did not bring my kids (I have three children, 2 are teens, one is 21) as I feel we have more than earned the right to claim *cruising* as somethinng of our own. On this particular sailing I felt like an alien! Did it ruin my vacation? No. Did I walk off the ship with a new perspective? Yes.

I won't debate the question of weather or not kids belong on cruise ships. I have my own oppinion for personal reasons. Yes, I have seen many children who are properly dressed, clean and well mannered. I've also seen "the kids and parents from hell".

When parents allow their children to get drunk, have sex in the hallways, carve up the elevators, drag each other drunk through the buffet areas, pull the fire alarms, act disruptively and rude toward other passengers and literally destroy the hard work that went into the presentation of the midnight buffet (it was disgusting- bites taken and thrown back ontto the table, hands touching everything- chewed up sculptures laying all over - disgusting- a lot of us were so disgusted we couldn't even try any of it), I ask the question- Where do these people breed and how can they be stopped!?

Harsh? Maybe. I wish the cigar smoking dad at the *adult* only pool telling his kids it was OK to have water fights with the buffet cups and glasses, push elderly people into the water, run and scream their heads off would have gotten a clue by the remarks and looks he got from people! Did he? No - he encouraged the wild behavior even after a security staff member came to clear the hot tub of children and try to quiet things down. I heard him yell, "Hey kids!! Go back and get your cups!! Get back in the hot tub - he's gone now!!" ARRGGH! Some of us wanted to scream!

The monosyllabic gruntting teen at my dinner table sure made for pleasant conversation. When he put his head down on the table next to my husband's food I thought the mother would at least say something- no! My husband moved his food over and tried to crack a joke, hoping the kid would get it. Did he? No, he grunted.

The staff and crew were rendered useless because for as hard as they tried to enforce the rules - the parents stepped on their toes and encouraged the wild behavior with out any regard for those of us being splashed, pushed, shoved... I was in the pool getting pushed around and when I returned to my lounge chair - it had been moved - drink spilled all over my hat, book, wallet, shoes - ick. Had I done that to someone else I would have seriously apologized, offer to replace the book, clean the other things and I would have bought them a new drink - and apologized some more. All I got was a blank stare and a "Kids will be Kids" shrug.

Why didn't I move? I was already at the adult pool - you should have seen the other pools!

I did speak to several crew members - they were as helpless as the rest of us.
We made the best of it, laughed it off - we are pretty easy going- but sheesh!!

Parents, please- control your children. I used to love when people approached me to tell me how well behaved, well spoken and well dressed my kids were. Doesn't this mean anything to parents anymore? Your children's behavior is a reflection on *you*!!

Teaching manners is a gift you give your children. Teaching them how to behave properly and where - also a huge gift to them. Teaching them to respect themselves and others through good, thoughtful and kind behavior toward others- a huge gift to them!

Thanks for letting me vent.
Deja
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2003, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

deja:

Why don't you come on over to radisson? Children are at a minimum and those that were on my last cruise were wonderfully behaved.

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old April 24th, 2003, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Re: Kids Gone wild

Thank you Marc! I would love to do a Radisson. I'm still in the process of trying all the major products before I decide which one I want to become loyal to (and get the perks for loyal past passengers?). Two weeks ago I was on the Grand Princess and it was great. I thought they really kept the number of children and teens on board limited. The ones I did encounter were lovely - polite and so cute to chat with! The teens were well dressed, respectful and very well behaved.

I really hate to sound like a snob by saying this - but I will take the risk anyway...
I believe that there are segments of our population that don't understand what "class" is. Class is nothing more than having self respect, respect for others, a warm and compassionate heart, and the desire to present one's self as such.

I'm in the process of looking for a cruise to book in August....
I've heard Radisson is a classy cruise!

Deja
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2003, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

Deja

I really appreciate your honesty and I feel in total agreement with you. We cruise Paradise on June 15th and I fear it may be a "kid" problem , but we will make the best and learn from it. Hopefully having 4 shoretours will help with pent up energy and maybe we are just early enough in the summer to miss the full blown takeover. I will be learning about the other cruises out there who are more, shall we say, adult friendly.

Thanks, Denise

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2003, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Re: Kids Gone wild

Marc, Radissons a little out of my price range by about $3,000. Would love to try those high end ships someday though.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old April 25th, 2003, 06:43 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

Outta my range too Marc, but maybe one day. Soon, Denise

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old April 28th, 2003, 09:23 AM
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I will be very selective the next time we cruise as to what time of the year we select. We cruised last year on RCCL during spring break-Voyager. Ship was loaded with kids-of all ages. Older teens were allowed to drink and run wild younger ones find in necessary not to speak in a normal tone of voice but "scream" constantly. We have two college aged daughters and we don't remember our kids screaming like that in public places! Also my other big beef with te cruise lines is that they do not enforce the NO KID IN THE ADULT POOL AND HOT TUBS- the only time we could get a sniff at the hot tubs was when we were in port and the kids were on shore excursions! Thank god we had a balcony room a great place for quiet. This year we booked on HAL in April thinking that all spring breaks were over. Unfortunately it was the week prior to Easter and spring break up north for some. Next time we will make sure our cruise is at a time when school is in session. Agreed, most kids today show no respect!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old April 29th, 2003, 08:49 PM
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I think all of you who have made comments on this post about kids not being allowed on cruise ships and children not being allowed to gallop down a corridor and be bit boisterous are a bunch of discriminatory people. Have we not forgotten that it is stereotyping when we clump an entire genre of our human race and judge all of them on the behavior of a handful? Kids WILL be kids, and I'm sorry...I can tell you that I would be right behind my child galloping with glee down the hallway to our cabin in the middle of the day if that is what made her happy. That's what "good" parents would do with their kids. Encourage them to be kids, not stifle their happiness because they may wake a few sleeping passengers in the middle of the day. Too bad if you choose to be in your cabin at 2:00 in the afternoon trying to sleep. You are the same person crashing down the hallway three sheets to the wind at 2:00 AM forgetting that their may be a child trying sleep in the room next door to yours. But do we say you shouldn't be allowed on the ship? No, we just accept your behavior as one having fun on their vacation...ya know - a few drinks, a few good laughs with friends and family...

No doubt that all kids should be supervised by their parents, and if not under direct supervision of an adult, be mature enough and have the decency to show common respect to fellow passengers, and act appropriately. I don't deny that it is certainly a right of all passengers to enjoy themselves in a peaceful atmosphere. But c'mon folks...let's remember that we were ALL kids once...
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old April 29th, 2003, 08:51 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

Donna:

Guilty as charged...so shoot me. I just hope we always choose differnt ships to cruise on!

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old April 29th, 2003, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

Donna I really don't think anyone on the board was referring to a nap during the day. I think what they were referring to was a reasonable expectation. Oh by all means have fun with your children but teach your children the appropiate times. I think that is what is being discussed here. Of course the Disney cruise lines and Carnival Kids programs support loads of healthy child activity but I doubt if you are going to find very many supporters of children bashing buffets, tearing up door decorations or screaming through hallways. Perhaps on your next cruise you will be subjected to some of the behaviors some of these cruisers have endured and you will be a bit more sympathetic. Oh by the way, good luck through the teen yrs with those kids, you may remember some of what you have read here. Denise

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  #45 (permalink)  
Old April 30th, 2003, 07:10 AM
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My kids are in their teen years (and pre-teen) and so far so good. Just the usual stuff parents deal with their teens (grades, dating, etc.) We have cruised with our kids twice, once when they were quite small (3&7) and again this year (9, 13 & 17) and had no problems either time. We saw kids out of control, but we saw just as many adults acting the same way. We chalk it up to experience, and are thankful we don't have to worry about our kids acting like jerks. Did they run free on the ship, probably acting a little bit goofy out of our eye-shot, you bet they did. But were they bashing the buffet, and ripping things off walls, I doubt it.


Alls I am saying is because of the poor behavior of some kids doesn't mean we should judge every kid the same way.

Happy cruising all.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old April 30th, 2003, 08:24 AM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

Not every kid is being judged here. The good where complemented in some above post as being good. I too think my kids are "good", 14 yr old the youngest of three but then you have to admit; parenting is not practiced like it used to be. It is not a childs fault if allowed to break rules and misbehave, it is the parents fault. In the case of rules not being enforced it is ultimately the managements fault. Should Cruise lines consider some changes that would reinforce parental responsibility? Perhaps? Thanks for your input and have a nice day, Denise

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old April 30th, 2003, 09:04 PM
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I hate to say this but I am one of the people trying to have a nap at 2 in the afternoon, however I am also in bed at 11. I don't drink as well. I have a medical condition and I have to have a rest every afternoon. If kids are yelling and screaming down the hall I would not be happy. Now going down the hall and giggling or talking is one thing but yelling and screaming is another thing. I do bring a fan and put it on so that I can get rid of normal noises as I don't expect people to tip toe by my door. Oh and I am a mother of 3 and a grandmother of 2.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old April 30th, 2003, 09:33 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

Yes, Donna - not everyone who is taking a nap at 2:00 in the afternoon was out partying all night long...some are people who need to rest because of medical conditions, some are people who at home work odd shifts (like PM or Night shift and are used to sleeping during the day and need to rest also during their vacation...if you've ever worked odd shifts you would realize it is not that easy to go from working nights to being a "day" person on vacation)....normal kid noise is fine, but when they are yelling and screaming and pounding on doors as they go by, then it is inappropriate and I would be complaining!

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  #49 (permalink)  
Old April 30th, 2003, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Re: Kids Gone wild

Denise,

Thanks- that needed to be said. I've said in previous posts that I don't cruise with my kids because it is something that my husband and I have claimed as our own. It's our time to reconnect and be a couple. That said - I have seen well behaved kids of all ages on ships. Truth be told though - when any kids are in a group - all bets are off! lol!
They just don't have the maturity to make good choices- nor should they be expected to. Which is why I can't understand how some parents can be so naive - and have the attitude, "not MY kid!" "MY kids would never do those things!". uhhh... lol

Parenting is a 24/7 job - no days off- not even on vacation! I never took my children to places where they would have to behave beyond their capabilities, or possibly annoy anyone. Am I the perfect mom? Heck no! Are my kids perfect? Heck no! There isn't a child on the face of this earth that isn't capable of acting out - especially when the atmosphere is right! As they matured, I introduced them to more adult environments and expected them to exercise the good behavior I instilled in them. (I believe this starts at home- always - table manners, respect for others, being attentive and polite conversationalists, etc...)

As for the defense that keeps popping up - that there are drunk, loud and disruptive adults too- to that I say - I'm sorry - I've never been bothered by adults who have earned the right to have a few drinks, laugh with gusto, and relax in ways they can't in their day to day lives. I've never seen an adult drunk off his/her a** being dragged around by their friends- never saw one getting sick from alcohol in the restroom near the disco while their friends tried to get them to chew gum to hide the smell - never saw one throwing food, never saw one knocking on every door while they screamed down a hallway removing the "do not disturb signs", never saw one whining loudly that they were tired and wanted to go home during dinner..... I think you get the point -

The only reason that this topic ruffles my feathers is because I am in awe that some people just don't understand the bottom line - kindness, respect, courtesy, manners and following rules. Also- having respect for your children. After being up at the crack of dawn, doing a full day of walking, swimming, sight seeing, dressing for dinner, - it's basically sensory overload for a kid.. They are going to get cranky....

OK I am blathering on now and will stop <G> Just adding more of my two cents.... I'll shut up now.

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  #50 (permalink)  
Old May 1st, 2003, 08:01 AM
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Parents do not care about their children these days and are so afraid to discipline them in fear that they will get arrested. WAKE UP parents!!!! Your child with the baggy pants roaming around the entire ship (on RCI ) with his little gang need to be watched over and taught the dresscode and some manners. Why is it so hard to teach these kids at a young age to respect their elders?? To all the parents with well behaved kids...keep up the good work.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old May 1st, 2003, 08:58 AM
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I don't know what to think about all of this. We are taking a cruise in june with my 6 & 10 yr old. It was a big concern for me that they behave while aboard. I know that I do not like it when kids misbehave when I am at an event or at a store. One of my goals was to make this a family event. I know RCL has children's programs but for the most part, I want the kids to be us so that we can experience things together. The kids programs should only be utilized when you want to spend some time alone with your spouse. I think the biggest problem is that as they get older, the kids do not want to be arround thier parents and as a former teenager, I understand that. Therefore, alot of parents let thier kids roam the ship. It is still parents responsibility to know what they are doing, and ensure that they are not causing problems. Maturity is not an age, it is an attitude.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old May 1st, 2003, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Re: Kids Gone wild

Davida--do not worry about bringing your kids. I think cruising with kids can be a wonderful family vacation. RCI has a great kids' program (and by the way, your children may want to participate in the kids' activities more than you expect--not just for a couple of babysittiing sessions). There are some people who have posted who seem to feel that drunk, loud adults are acceptable but boisterously playing children are not. There are even some people who think children should be kept out of the dining room unless they can act like retirees. But I think most people are really only bothered by kids who are misbehaving in dramatic ways. Since you intend to either be with your kids or to know where they are and what they're doing, I really don't think this will be an issue for you.

While I of course agree that children and teens can't be allowed to act out in dangerous ways, I myself have been disturbed by some of the intolerant attitudes some posters have shown toward behavior that seems innocuous to me (toddlers running down corridors, babies crying, teens dressing like teens). Most of these posters are not parents of young children, however, and a summer RCI cruise will have plenty of other parents of young children on it who will share a your family-centered attitude.

Have a great family cruise!
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old May 1st, 2003, 11:43 AM
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I have been on 14 cruises ranging from 3 days to 10 days over the years - including RCL, Carnival, Princess, and most recently, Holland America.

We have no children, but I was kind of a pain in the butt when I was a kid, so I know kids will be kids. I can HONESTLY say that I have never been on a cruise where kids were out of control. Perhaps this is luck.

Unfortunately, whether it involves a cruise or any other social activity some people are just plain stupid, and there is really nothing that can be done about it, and if we try to ban kids from ships or make real strict unreasonable rules we just ruin things for the majority of the folks who are civil.

Last summer I was invited to a triple A baseball game by a friend who had use of a box for the evening. There were about 35 people invited which included a very nice buffet, all free of charge. At the end, I saw most people and their kids pick up their used paper plates, etc.and discard them. In a few cases, people and the kids just put the plates on the floor under the seats with leftover food falling off and making a big mess. But, not thier job, right? That is life - what can we really do. jlk
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Old May 1st, 2003, 05:30 PM
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I wholeheartedly agree with James!
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Old May 1st, 2003, 05:53 PM
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James says "...Perhaps this is luck"..

You are right, you have been lucky. Just got back from the Millie and there were 560 kids and 90 percent were out of control. Kids from 7 to 16 roaming the ship with absolutely NO adult supervision. Some did have the stupid little walkie talkies so parents could check on them ..<G>. Kids running through the casino...parents letting kids play slots.....14 year old passed out in restroom drunk. Constant problems in disco with underage kids after time not allowed. Hot tubs on pool deck full of kids 7 and up. Observed 1 mother take her infant with pamper on into hot tub. Before anyone asks.....YES we did notify Guest services and Security guards were in the area and could observe the same rules being broken as we did. New thing, at least for us, was kids in all 4 glass elevators playing "elevator races". Want to go for a nice romantic walk at 2 in the morning on the open decks...FORGET IT....kids 7 to 16 still running the decks. We wish Celebrity would offer MORE adult only cruises throughout the entire year. Why do parents carry their kids on cruise? Most don't supervise them or have any consideration for other passengers. The most supervision they provide is a 2 way radio. Example...As I was getting on an elevator, a young girl was coming off. Her mother {still on elevator asked her where she was going. She completely ignored her and did'nt answer. The doors close and some asked her mother how old she was ...mother said 10 and she is "exercising her freedom"...lol. Now lets hear from all the parents who supervise their kids <G> You say it here but we don't see it on ships.



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Old May 1st, 2003, 09:25 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

This topic surfaces from time to time and always creates a stir.

Many months back, I asked that some of the parents who DON'T supervise their kids and DON'T care what they do please post as to WHY they DON'T-----guess what---all the responses were from people who claimed their little darlings were just that and that they always supervised the kids.

Well, here is the opportunity for those who DON'T supervise their kids and who DON'T care what they do to step to the plate and tell us why. We deserve to know.

Rick's example of what his cruise was like is the prime reason I cruise in the height of hurricane season. At least then the problem is lessened to a degree.
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Old May 2nd, 2003, 09:49 AM
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Oh brother, I just read Rick's posting about Celebrity's Millenium - my wife and I are going to cruise on Celebrity (Infinity) in November for 2 weeks to the Panama Canal - I hope this is not common to the cruise line.

Luckily, it is a 14 day cruise, and it has been my experience that on the longer cruises there are mostly "geezers" like me - so maybe we won't have the problem.

Somewhat related - on the lighter side:
I just heard the funniest comment the other day from a friend of mine - he would make Rodney Dangerfield (my favorite) look like a rookie with this material.

Get this - he said he was going to try to get a teenager in his neighborhood to cut his lawn for the summer - HA, HA, HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He must think this is 1955!!! He told me this when we were riding down a two lane highway. Ten minutes later, we passed a kid who was about 13 years old on roller blades talking on a cellphone - I told him he should try to get that kid to mow his lawn. Just a funny story. jlk
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Old May 2nd, 2003, 11:03 AM
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I don't think you'll have too much to worry about as far as kids gone wild, James. Most kids are in school in November, and Rick unfortunately chose to cruise over a time when a lot of kids are out on Easter break. I cruised on Celebrity in early December and there was nary a kid in sight.

Great story, by the way! They might consider mowing the lawn - for $100!

Cheers,
Michelle B.


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Old May 2nd, 2003, 04:44 PM
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Is being out of school on Easter Break an excuse for parents letting their kids run wild? I have nothing against cruising with kids...I just wish parents would be parents and Ships would enforce the rules they impose.

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Old May 2nd, 2003, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: Kids Gone wild

I don't know if any of you read the "Teen" board on this site (I never did until today), but I invite you to go that board and read the thread, "The Truth About Alchol," dated 2/27/03. It is the stunning dirty truth of the situation, and anyone who thinks that enforcing rules and holding ship personnel responsible for those behaviors is living in a fantasy world. This is a thread about being 14 and your parents let you roam the ship, let you have the room, leave behind their booze, and what goes on as a result. As the parent of a teenager to another parent, will YOU know where your kid is and what he or she is doing for 7 days, or do you not want to??
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