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Old April 24th, 2002, 05:43 PM
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Default NBC news

There is a story on Carnival on nbc nightly news coming up - didn't sound good.

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Old April 24th, 2002, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

ok, here goes - Family traveling on Imagination over Spring Break booked an excursion on board for a diving adventure. While exploring underwater caves, a boulder fell and crushed the skull of the father. Family says they got no help from Carnival. Carnival says the tour operator better equiped to handle the situation. Family suing for $7 Mil. Carnival called family before leavng port to ask if they were sure they wanted to disbark and where to send luggage. I understand the family's situation, but obviously the ship is not equiped for such a severe injury. I am not sure what, if any, compensation Carnival gave the family, but I see both sides. The family feels that because they booked excursion on board, Carnival is responsible. Carnival, however, makes it clear that they are not responsible for the actions of the tour operators and do not hold any responsibility for problems. What do you guys think? This is a tough one, but won't keep me from always sailing CCL.

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Old April 24th, 2002, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

Jodi, just watched it....very sad. But not sure why or how they can sue Carnival. They had no liability for what happened at the off ship excusion park. Off course the ship could not stay. I think a good gesture on Carnivals part would to have provided an interperter (sp), room and board for the family.......plus help arrange for the body to be flown home. Of course we only got one side of the story. Carnival may have been callous but I can't see how they were legally negligent.

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Old April 24th, 2002, 06:00 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

That is exactly how I feel. I feel for the family, but I do not see how Carnival is responsible for a boulder falling.... Not anything that they had any type of control over. The story never said anything about compensation from Carnival did it? I bet there was probably some, but as you said, we only got one side of the story.

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Old April 24th, 2002, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

This is a very sad story. I don't, however, see how Carnival can be blamed for any of this. I do feel though that Carnival should have done everything in it's power to make the family as comfortable as possible during this upsetting time. And maybe they did; like someone else posted, we are only hearing one side of the story.

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Old April 24th, 2002, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

Hopefully a judge/jury will see it the same way.

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Old April 24th, 2002, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

Carnival should have provided some guidance to the family in what options were available to them and offer translation with Mexican authorities...afterall they have intimate knowledge of the countries they visit and I'm certain have informed legal departments who SHOULD have a process in place for this sort of situation. I do know there are provisions for example, in the insurance policy that you have the option of buying that provide for illness or death while cruising.

What disturbs me even more is the news program tonight included that the state of Florida has reported that Carnival is well known for not addressing customer complaints and has a number of complaints filed directly with an agency in that state.

With the recent evidence and fines for dumping of oily sludge in the oceans for a number of years and now the news of their callous attitude to the family and passenger who died....I am beginning to regret giving them my business. I will still try to look forward to cruising next month...but will reconsider future sailings if this company is not customer focused. They better get their priorites straight for without the customer they make no $$.
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Old April 24th, 2002, 08:00 PM
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It wasn't the state of Florida, but the Southeast Florida BBB that said that Carnival didn't respond to complaints. RCI and NCL have the same notes on their reports, too. Princess also had an unresolved complaint with the Southland BBB in Los Angeles. The lack of information in BBB's reports made it difficult to reach any kind of conclusion about the issues, though.
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Old April 24th, 2002, 08:00 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

I agree with the majority, that it is a horrible situation but the cruise line is the last ones responsible for it. I missed the complete story, where exactly in Mexico did this take place?

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Old April 24th, 2002, 08:02 PM
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I am sure that Carnival did what it needed to do. They are multi billion dollar Co. The news media thrives on these kind of stories and are famous for telling one side.
Carnival and other cruise lines serves tens of thousand of people each month. Of course you are going to hear some tragic stories and even complaints when u are dealing with the amount of passengers that they do. Luckliy, we don't hear about them to often. My friend's Grandfather died at sea on a Carnival cruise a few yrs ago. Carnival flew the body home and treated the situation professionaly. another one ,on the Victory last summer a passenger had a heart attack while on the ship and Carnival flew him home also, and that one i saw with my own eyes. I am sure that most of the cruise lines have similar guidelines for any tragedy that may happen.
My heart goes out to that father and his family.

Mary Ann & Scott
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Old April 24th, 2002, 08:09 PM
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Yes, I agree about the media going nuts with things and blowing it out of proportion, you know the big bad ugly corporation... I can't believe Carnival would be that calous... but still beyond it all I think it was just a horrible accident.

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Old April 24th, 2002, 09:24 PM
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I was watching NBC news tonight and strangely enough was on the phone with my TA at the time hammering out some details about our upcoming booking on the Triumph. I quickly hit record on the remote so that I could watch it as soon as I was off the phone.

The family was in Mexico on a shore excurion in Xcaret. They were snorkeling in an area with man made caves. A basketball sized boulder fell and struck the man in the head. A freak accident indeed.

Xcaret is aproximately 1 hour from Cancun and five minutes from Playa del Carmen off the Cancun - Tulum highway. (I just looked that up - because I'm not sure what the port location was).

I was disturbed by this report as I am sure everyone who saw it or read about it is. If it is true that the wife of the then seriously injured man was asked "Where do you want your luggage sent?" and "Are you sure you want to disembark?" , Carnival's actions were indeed callous. They left the family behind in a foreign country with no translator, no Carnival representative to offer any assistance or at the very least comfort and a sense of being taken care of or supported during the tragic event. The man died 24 hours later.

I agree that Carnival was not responsible for the boulder falling on and killing the man. I think it's disturbing and unbelievable that Carnival did not offer any assistance of any kind to the family. The man was fatally injured and from the wife's statement in the report, the family's luggage was taken off the ship and they were left alone to deal with the tragedy, not even knowing the language.

If for nothing else, Carnival should have acted to support this family in any way they were capable of because by not doing so they are now going to be under scrutiny and subject to much unwanted bad publicity. I'm sure every unresolved complaint, any negative treatment passengers may have encountered as well as more serious issues involving safety will be newsworthy now that a serious incident involving the loss of a life has occured.

Legalities and liability issues aside. I believe Carnival had a moral and ethical responsibility to these passengers, and should have been by their side helping them in any way they could. I think it's how any of us would want to be treated under such serious circumstances. Just my opinion.

deja
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Old April 25th, 2002, 06:25 AM
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I have been to Xcaret and although we did not do the cave dive I can see how an accident like that could happen. I would like to hear the whole story before I make a judgement on this one. I will be taking my daughters on their first cruise and my first on Carnival in June. We will be scuba diving and as divers we all know to avoid caves. I have had one bad experience on NCL and that was the last I will ever have from them. Hopefully someone will have the other side of this story.
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Old April 25th, 2002, 07:59 AM
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Default Re: NBC news

I found the story on MSNBC under the video news link. They have the broadcast story on there. Again, it is only one side of the story....
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Old April 25th, 2002, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

Hello all,

I searched all of the news web sites I have (NBC, MSBNC, CNN) and could find nothing about this story. After doing a search on Carnival, all I could find was the story about their pleading guilty to polluting the oceans. I also checked under the video stories on MSNBC.

Is the story really gone that quickly?? If someone could post a link, I would appreciate it...
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Old April 25th, 2002, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

Hello all,

I checked all of my news web sites (NCB, CNN, MSNBC) and could not find anything on this story. I also checked the video feeds on MSNBC. Is it really gone this quickly???

If someone could post a link here, I would appreciate it! Thanks...
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Old April 25th, 2002, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

Oops....seems my message got posted twice....my Netscape browser advised me there was a critcal error & shut down everything, so I figured it went into the big Netscape trash can in the sky...my apologies....

My condolences also to the family...what a terrible tragedy to happen so far from home & other family members...
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Old April 25th, 2002, 04:30 PM
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Old April 25th, 2002, 08:49 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

Well, I see they took the story down, news moves on quickly these days.....
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Old April 26th, 2002, 07:42 AM
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Default Re: NBC news

I was looking further into this and it actually happened 2 years ago and they are just getting around to doing the story now, sounds like a slow news day.
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Old April 26th, 2002, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: Re: NBC news

Michelle,
That's what really gripes me, they put it out like it happened yesterday instead of two years ago. I tuned it out almost as soon as they started with the 'story' as I knew it was old news but didn't think or realize that many people wouldn't know this or listen closely enough to hear the date. As it was in April and they did mention that date, most folks actually tune out the year when they quote a date that fits like it is current. If they had released this 'story' LAST month everyone would have listened to the year.
Jim

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Old April 26th, 2002, 09:39 AM
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If this did happen two years ago, which I do not disagree with, then this is just one of those news-bashing-company stories. Another thing that might be of interest is when was the law suit filed? When will it be heard? Sounds like a law firm decided that some negative PR would go a long way toward making Carnival settle out of court. Probably because the case is not winable (sp).
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Old April 26th, 2002, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

What would of happened had the ship stayed longer in the port then they were supposed to because of the accident? Would other passengers complain and demand a refund or a credit to their room because of missed time at other ports? I remember reading about an accident that happened to a RCCL employee that caused the ship to miss a port and the people on the ship screamed bloody murder about it and demanded refunds of more then the port charges.
Dammed if you dammed if you don't.

Just look how much it is getting debated on message boards, just the kind of bad publicity the lawyers are looking for to force Carnival's hand into a settlement.
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Old April 26th, 2002, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: NBC news

You know when a family experiences any kind of tragedy like that there is an instinctive reaction to blame someone else. My dad recently died of cancer and my mom has gone from blaming herself to the doctors, hospitals, insurance system, and back to herself(her favorite scapegoat) Sometimes horrible things happen and it is easier to blame a corporate entity than to think it was fate or God or a big fish. It is also easier to sue Carnval than a little tour operator(who was probably not responsible either). When my dad was dying my mom thought everyone from the housekeepers to the administrators were absolutely cold and callous to what my dad and she were going through. And she was right occasionally, but they were probably not medically negligent in any way that is actionable or causative. In reality, my dad smoked and he got lung cancer and died from it. And that man did something that inherantly carried a risk and he took the risk and a horrible tragedy resulted from it for him and his family. My heart goes out to them. Their grief continues to this day, certainly.

Shelly
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Old April 27th, 2002, 10:03 AM
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A very sad story, but it exemplifies the very reason why travel insurance is so necessary. None of the cruise lines are responsible for anyone when they get off the ship to go on those great adventurous tours. We all take those at our own risk. If someone has an accident on a street corner, their tour bus crashes, they fall off a cliff, or suffer a heart attack, etc., it is the travel insurance represetatives and not the cruise line, who will take care of getting qualified emergency medical service, provide family support, cover medical expenses in a foreign country, get a translator if needed, and provide transportation back to the U.S., even if emergency evacuation is required. The insurance will also reimburse for the vacation costs.

A local radio personality who travels extensively, injured himself stumbling in the shower on a cruise to Tahiti. He thought nothing of it but a scrape. Unfortunately, the injury became infected, and while on the islands he developed severe toxic shock and was in a coma for several weeks in a touch and go situation before he finally recovered and was flown back home with special medical assisstance. He said his travel insurance saved his life by automatically providing for tens of thousands of dollars in medical services in his behalf. He was in the very best hospital and had a paramedic with him on his flight back home. Coverage neither his own medical insurance nor the cruise line would have provided.

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Old April 27th, 2002, 11:10 AM
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Hi: A really sad story, especially looking at the happy video and pictures taken before the accident. While CCL was not responsible or liable for the accident, I think they bear a resposibility for their customer's welfare. By that I mean, they should have assigned an officer from the ship to stay with the family until the situation was resolved and the familiy was back home. Or, had someone from CCL HQ's fly there. Because the accident took place in a foreign country, CCL should have had immediate contact with the local U.S. consulate for assistance. On that point, CCl might have done that but it was not explained in the report. Had CCL responded as I descibed, instead of asking the family "if they really want to get off the ship", this becomes a non-news story or.... we look at CCL as a hero for being so considerate.

Just my three cents.

Bob
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Old April 29th, 2002, 08:29 AM
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I agree with everyone's position especially with assigning a ship's officer to remain with the family. Everyone, including myself, feel that CCL should not be found liable for what looks like an isolated incident. However, CCL can still be sued if certain facts and circumstances were present.

Carnival can be liable assuming they sponsored or provided information about that particular tour to their customers. If this is the case, CCL is now responsible for the actions or 3rd party shore excursions in the sense that CCL is in a better position to determine the reputation of the shore excursions and know or should have known of any problems (dangers, negligence or past bad service) with those excursions. Regardless of waiver, CCL is still on the hook.

But in order to make this a solid case for the family, there must have been similar accidents or incidents of loose boulders falling in the caves within a reasonable time period preceding this occurrance. If this is the case, and CCL was aware of past problems and failed to explain the dangers of this particular shore activity to people on board, then CCL can be found to be liable. It is a stretch, but a case can be made for the family.

As far as the father assuming the risk of partaking in a dangerous activity, the family's lawyer will counter by asking, "how dangerous could the activity be if the cruiseline is offering it, or not advising us to stay away from it." If the danger is not readily apparent, how is one to know. Somehow a falling boulder in an underwater cave is not something anyone in the passenger's position could readily identify as an inherent danger in underwater scuba-diving. If boulders are still coming loose from the sides of the man made caves, it is the makers of the caves, the shore excursion operators and the cruiselines who are in the best position to determine the danger not the unknowing foreign passenger on the ship. The counter argument is that the rock falling is so far off the map that it was a freak accident and that holding anyone liable for what amounts to an act of god would be unthinkable.

Without knowing all the facts,this is the only way I can see CCL being held liable. If there is a suit in the system, CCL is the best target not only because they have the deep pockets, but going after the people who made the caves and the excursion operator will be difficult as they will be subject to Mexican law, whereas CCL is more easily brought to courts in the United States by their significant ties here and the preponderance ofUS citizens taking these cruises.

Anyway this was a tragedy and my thoughts and prayers go out to this family and other people who posted on this thread who lost loved ones. Take care - Bill M
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