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  #1 (permalink)  
Old August 7th, 2002, 08:23 PM
skippy
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Default a warning for parents

My letter is to warn parents of the possible problems they could encounter
on a Carnival Cruise. My family and I recently cruised with this company
and we found security to be very negligent on our particular ship.
On two separate occasions we encountered young teen girls who had been
sexually assaulted. The first girl (15) was outside of our cabin at 2:00
am, and while I won't go into the details, it was obvious to us that she
was drunk and had been "taken advantage of" by some young men. We found a
security guard and told him the facts, and that her parents needed to be
notified immediately. He never acted on our concerns. He simply unlocked
her door and continued on his way. The second offense was with a gentleman
who was forcing young girls to kiss him in the Disco (during the teen
hours). We also witnessed him following my children (and their new
friends) around the ship. We alerted a security guard who was standing 10
feet away from the perpetrator. Again, our concerns fell upon deaf ears.
While I understand that it is a parent's responsibility to monitor their
children, I also feel that it is a company's responsibility to act on these
serious issues.
I think that many unsuspecting parents are lulled into a false sense of
security by the very presence of the guards set in place. I also am
inclined to think that many parents are mislead by overzealous travel
agents who sell the cruise experience as a trouble free and safe family
vacation. Normally protective, intelligent and responsible parents seem to
believe that all is well on the high seas. My letter is for those who just
might fit this category. A security guard does not mean that your kids are
being looked after, or that they are being taken care of after a crime is
committed.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old August 7th, 2002, 11:00 PM
DeniseToAlaska
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Default Re: a warning for parents

Very strange warning.

First of all, on the Spirit, we never saw one security guard. Not one.

Second, if a 15-year-old was out and about at 2am, that's a parent problem, but you should have immediately gone to the purser's desk or dialed someone from near the elevators. That you let a 'sexually abused' 15-year-old wander away is shocking.

The discos were teen-only and my friends were watched (and scowled at) the whole time when they went to see their daughters. They were then instructed to speak to them outside.

A few real safety thoughts:

If anything happens to your child, the perpetrator is not getting away, that's for sure. They'd be stupid to think they could.

Teens 12 and over can check themselves in and out of Camp Carnival. Two-way radios are a must.

Teens are not responsible adults, nor are Carnival employees posted outside of everyone's room to make sure teens aren't going where they're not supposed to. Two-way radios are a must.

And finally, with teens, two-way radios are a must. Or the new Global Positioning Trackers you can implant in your kids. (just joking--kinda)

Denise
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Old August 8th, 2002, 04:27 AM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

Parents should always be aware of where their children are and what they are doing, be it on a land vacation or on a cruise. From my personal observations I have not seen any problems coming anywhere near this report and only saw one tale of underage drinkers, (obviously teens), and that was on the NCL Norway ship. It isn't like I walk around unaware either as 20 plus years of experiance in Law Enforcement makes it second nature to notice things like this. Skippy, I would like to hear more about this and what ship it was on. I hope that you also told about this in your comment card and/or wrote the company and let them know what you saw. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would stand by and allow an older 'gentleman' to forceably kiss younger girls. Security guard or no, his body would be pinned against the wall until he was removed by security or someone with shipboard authority on the way to the brig had I seen someone assualting or sexualy harming a child for crying out loud!
Jim
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Old August 8th, 2002, 08:25 AM
skippy
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Default Re: Re: a warning for parents

That you let a 'sexually abused' 15-year-old wander away is shocking..

You got this fact exactly from where????
I took her at her door and found a security guard. The details, which could not be written into the letter are that I told the guard and then I left. I then sent my husband to the scene and he told him as well ( I thought coming from a man the info would be taken more seriously). We left her in the hands of what we thought was a responsible Security Guard. How is that walking away??? We trusted him. My point is that we learned that they can't be trusted. That is my message.
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Old August 8th, 2002, 08:29 AM
skippy
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Default Re: Re: a warning for parents

. For the life of me I can't understand why anyone would stand by and allow an older 'gentleman' to forceably kiss younger girls.
>
Me either. And that is why I am voicing my concerns. I am going to force changes. I do hope that your wonderment is not an indicaction that you think I am lying.
Carnival has the facts. I was offered a 20% reduction off of a future cruise because of inconsiderate guest (their wording, not mine).
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2002, 09:03 AM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I'm NOT going to say that the 15 year old brought it on herself, but I will say that a drunk 15 year old is probably not the world's best judge of character or intentions.

I will also say that if the parents weren't out looking for her and hadn't raised an alarm, they must have cheese for brains. Why they'd let a 15 stay out that late puzzles me, too.

Me, I would have at least had a conversation with the Hotel Manager or Chief of Security about what I observed. One might be ratting out the girl if she managed to sneak into the cabin while her parents were sleeping (or had her own cabin with a sibling or some such) and the parents might be furious with you, but that same guy was stiill on the ship and a potential danger to other young girls.

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Old August 8th, 2002, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I find your story beyond believable. A much older man being allowed in to FORCE girls to kiss him and nobody kicking the idiot off the ship is just not a realistic picture. I think this is being posted for some sick reason to scare people and families off cruises, or Carnival specifically.

Yes, abuse can happen, and is more LIKELY to happen when parents don't give a d@mn what their kids are doing and never checking on them or have set check times where everyone gets together. Any given girl can flirt to get drunk and get in trouble from it. That can happen anywhere and especially in a resort or vacation hot spot. Some lessons unfortunately have to be learned the hard way, and then it is up to the girl and her parents (if they ever find out) how to handle the consequences. It is up to the family to have some sort of dialogue about alcohol BEFORE any incidents arise. Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!

As for Carnival, we've travelled this line 3x (as well as other lines) and are looking forward to another Carnival cruise in the future WITH our sons.
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Old August 8th, 2002, 04:51 PM
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Default Re: Re: a warning for parents

Skippy,
No, I do not think you are lying at all. I am just dumbfounded that in these times something like that could possibly occur in public without someone jumping in and putting a stop to it immediately, be it a passenger or staff member. Could you have been mistaken about who or what the actual circumstances were? It is just incompreshensible that this could happen, much less that it is anything more than an extreme rarity. If anyone ever sees something like this occur they should immediately notify Security and/or the Chief of Security, Purser, Staff Captain, whoever, until this problem is solved. It amazes me that people stand aside and refuse to get involved in matters that concern all of us.
Jim
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2002, 05:44 PM
skippy
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Default Re: Re: Re: a warning for parents

Jim Bragg wrote:

. I am just dumbfounded that in these times something like that could possibly occur in public without someone jumping in and putting a stop to it immediately, be it a passenger or staff member>

The pinning against the wall was done in a dark corner of the disco where there is a back entrance/exit. There was no mistaking what was done to the girls and we witnessed the same man following the kids all around the ship. In my quest, I am finding out that this has happened before and that this seems to be the way Carnival does business. Sweep and cover.
We did all that we felt we could. We alerted parents, alerted security and watched our teens like a hawk.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2002, 05:45 PM
skippy
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Default Re: Re: a warning for parents

. I think this is being posted for some sick reason to scare people and families off cruises, or Carnival specifically.
>
>
Yep, you got it !
You are brilliant!
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2002, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: a warning for parents

I am about to embark on my first ever family cruise on Sept 8 Carnival Victory, I have a very lovely 14 year old daughter and I can assure you, anyone even comes close to her, I would not want to be that person. We have the Radio's packed, the talks are on going and I am proud to say she has a fantastic head on her shoulders. This topic could happen, but I am trusting that Carnival cruise lines would not allow such a thing to happen so I guess we are off to our cruise real soon.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old August 8th, 2002, 09:24 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I agree that parents need to watch their kids like a hawk, make prearranged plans for meeting, set curfews, know who they are hanging with, use two-way radios, and discuss alcohol before a vacation including a cruise.

However, I completely disagree with Cindy about "some lessons have to be learned the hard way!" Sexual assault or sexual abuse and how to handle the "consequences" afterward is hardly a lesson that anyone wants or needs to have to learn the "hard way". The consequences are not just here and now, they last a lifetime.

And BTW abuse can happen even to the children of parents who do give a DAMN.
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Old August 9th, 2002, 07:24 PM
TomS
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I saw a video filmed on the Inspiration where a man, apparently high on drugs, broke into a lifeboat and grabbed an axe. He began swinging the axe wildly as passengers dove for cover. Security did corral him without injury to anyone, although one person did have to parry a swing with a deck chair. Security did not handcuff him when they captured him, although they did use a control hold to direct him below decks. What happened to him is unknown, but it would be safe to assume he was thrown off the ship at the next opprotunity.

Happily, this appears to be a very rare incident. One thing to keep in mind is that ships are basicly small cities. They will have the same problems any community with a population of 3,500 to 4,500 will have.

TomS
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Old August 10th, 2002, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: a warning for parents

I guess They would have heard me complaining all the way back to the docks if I had seen anything like that happen. I have never seen anything on the cruises I have been on. I Cruise Carnival all the time. Not saying it didn't happen of course. But I do think these parents who think there children are adults at 15 are badly mistaken. I have grandchildren and when they are in my care they are under a close eye always. Wherever we are. I never think anyone else should be watching over mu kids. They are my responsibility. If there was a guy following children around I would have let the entire personel know it. Believe me It would not be happening again on that Ship! Grandma Char
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Old August 14th, 2002, 09:53 PM
Mary Curious
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I partially agree with Cindi. I think this story is either made up or exaagerated.skippy wrote:
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Old August 16th, 2002, 09:13 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I am not surprised at all by this. Having been on many cruises and yes in my younger wilder days I would party with the crew in their crew bar. On one cruise (after spring break) the capt. had to make an announcement that no one was to go near the crew quarters. The previous week there was much partying going on between crew and young girls on spring break. Sixty min. or 48 hrs. did an expose on a mother and mentally retarded daughter on a cruise. The daughter was taken advantage of by a married philopeno crew member and she became pregnant. So parents watch your teenage daughters! Don't assume everything will be o.k. because SECURITY is on board.
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Old August 17th, 2002, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Re: a warning for parents

Carol,
This had to be a number of years ago as this is not allowed any longer. We are longtime friends with some of the Officers and they and us still need special permission to even visit the crew bar which is not given out lightly anymore. Crew still cannot enter a passenger cabin nor can passenger enter a crew cabin, it is grounds for dismissal. All cruiselines are now very aware of the problems that can arise betwen crew and passengers and it is known that there are many false claims of improper behaviour so they take great pains to make sure that they can prove that it could not have happened by strict rules.
Jim
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Old June 4th, 2004, 11:47 AM
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Default Re: Re: Re: a warning for parents



Author: skippy (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: 08-08-02 17:45

. I think this is being posted for some sick reason to scare people and families off cruises, or Carnival specifically.
>
>
Yep, you got it !
You are brilliant!



Seriously, or p.o.d
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2004, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I'm not buying this one!
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Old June 4th, 2004, 12:07 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

Skippy,

First....What ship was this?

Second, I believe you...I have heard worse. I can't exactly be closed mined to this because crazyer things has happened. I haven't been on a cruise yet, but when I do cruise, I hope nothing like that happens.
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Old June 4th, 2004, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

This past december we went to "check on " our teenage daughters in the Disco and were asked to leave and told that no adults other than staff are alowed in during teen time.

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Old June 4th, 2004, 03:54 PM
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Default Re: Re: a warning for parents

We had a guy who was bothering our "college age kids" and they kept asking him to stop hanging around. He thought he was having fun I guess. I got ticked off and told him in no uncertain language to get the heck (other word) away and stay away or his trip was over. I also told the Matride (spel) in the dinning room, as this is where the big confrontation occurred and he escorted him to his table and gave him the same warning or so he says. Nevertheless we had no problems from then on and I noticed he was with his wife and child the rest of the times I saw him.
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Old June 4th, 2004, 04:10 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I don't know if these stories are true, but I also don't understand why people find it hard to believe. We are talking a couple of thousand people on these cruises, just by sheer percentages there are likely to be some weirdos aboard. I grew up in a town of 1500 and it had its fair share of crime. If your state has a sexual offender registry, take a look at it. You will be surprised at who may be living in your neighborhood or city.
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Old June 4th, 2004, 04:17 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

Of Course this kind of thing does happen, some of you seem to have your heads in the clouds. It happpens on ALL lines. If you put two to three thousand different people together ,there are bound to be incidents. Just because you are on " vacation" does not mean theat bad things can't happen.!!!!

The parents are mostly at fault, they refuse to supervise their kids, Branflake is twelve years old and he has said ( on another thread) that his mom is " an early bird" who goes to bed at 9 or 10..."way too early for him" so therefore he wanders the ship till one am and finds" seeing the drunks trying to walk on a moving surface funny" . Well lets just hope he doesn't run into a drunk, with a thing for little boys in some lonely part of the deck.
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Old June 4th, 2004, 08:28 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

It happens on ALL cruise lines.

Parents should just remember that a large ship is like a city with people from all over the world on it. Some of them are not upstanding citizens.

Parents should be as responsible for their children on a ship just as they would be in a hotel or at Disney World or wherever they are.

It's only common sense.

If you want to read some scary stuff go here: http://www.lipcon.com/area_assault_cases.shtml

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Old June 5th, 2004, 03:02 AM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I am astonished to read that people would think this story is untrue! Why would you think that the small community on board the cruise is immune to crime?
Not only that, some have stooped to accusing a fellow poster of lying! And even more so, that she has some sort of personal vendetta agains Carnival? Yeesh, give me a break!
Skippy, you did the right thing, I'm just sorry that the outcome wasn't positive.
Tiffany, kudos to you! I agree with you wholeheartedly.

I think we ALL need to do a reality check and not assume that because we're in closed quarters that we're automatically safe.
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Old June 5th, 2004, 08:34 AM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

You need to send this on to the Pres. of Carnival. This is something that needs to be addressed. Maybe Carnival needs to repremand or hire new security personnel.
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Old June 5th, 2004, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

It's not just Carnival...it's ALL cruise lines. It's all cruise lines, it's all hotels and resorts and it's EVERYWHERE. Seamy people and criminals don't stay home just because WE'RE on vacation.

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Old June 5th, 2004, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

<<<Branflake is twelve years old and he has said ( on another thread) that his mom is " an early bird" who goes to bed at 9 or 10..."way too early for him" so therefore he wanders the ship till one am and finds" seeing the drunks trying to walk on a moving surface funny" . Well lets just hope he doesn't run into a drunk, with a thing for little boys in some lonely part of the deck.>>>


Branflakes is a 12 year old GIRL whose irresponsible so-called Mother goes to bed at nine oclock and lets her little young child run around the ship unsupervised. Definitely Mother-of-the-Year material.
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Old June 5th, 2004, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: a warning for parents

I think Branflake is a phoney baloney.
There's all kinds of people lurking on the internet. I think that is one of them.

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