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  #61 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2002, 10:31 AM
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Default the facts

In yesterdays paper there was a full page article about the virus on the cruise ships. They were able to narrow it down to one passenger who boarded in Seattle in October per the CDC. This is a common gastrointestinal bug that brings on short bouts of abdominal cramping, vomiting and diarrhea. It's a highly contagous virus, which antibiotics will do nothing for, that lasts from 2-4 days. More than 180,000 cases were reported in the US last year so it would be no surprise that it made it's way to the cruise ships. The Disney Magic and HAL Amsterdam were scoured twice. CCL Fascination was cleaned once and returned to sea. On 2 subsequent cruises a total of only 19 of 4080 passengers and 19 crew members were reported ill. The Fascination carried a total of 1829 crew members on those cruises.

The odds are fewer than 1% of passengers get sick from something they pick up on board a cruise ship.

Precautions are wash hands thoroughly and often. Avoid contact with others who may be infected. If you are sick keep your distance. And get a flu shot.

This was in the 12/15/02 Charlotte Observer in the travel section.
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2002, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Okay, I was content to just passively observe, but like Thomas (incidentally, one of the most critical thinkers on these boards), I might as well enter the battle also.

Pamda gives a very good accounting of the costs associated with a standard lawsuit: attorney's fees, filing costs, precious time, and and, of course, the possibility of paying your opponent's attorney fees if one loses.

However, the kind of lawsuit, Von is "fishing" for is the CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT
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  #63 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2002, 01:51 PM
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Default Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Okay, I was content to just passively observe, but like Thomas (incidentally, one of the most critical thinkers on these boards), I might as well enter the battle also.

Pamda gives a very good accounting of the costs associated with a standard lawsuit: attorney's fees, filing costs, precious time, and and, of course, the possibility of paying your opponent's attorney fees if one loses.

However, the kind of lawsuit, Von is "fishing" for is the CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT. He/she is hoping to locate 50, 100 or maybe even 300 others who will join together to get the "deep pockets" corporation. If you can get 200 people who spent $1500 on a cruise, had large medical expenses, lost time at work, lost consortium (sex), nightmares about dying, ad nauseum then you're talking about a hefty piece of change that many attorneys would take on a contingency basis (they pay all fees associated with the suit for a large percentage of the settlement). If in all their depositions they can "discover" that the cruise line KNEW that people were going to get sick and DID NOTHING to warn or mitigate these events,
and, better yet, INTENTIONALLY hid this information from the cruising public, then their attorneys have hit the CLASS ACTION JACKPOT !! Then, in addition, to the already stretched damages of the passengers the court may multiply that figure by 50 or a 100 as punishment (PUNITIVE DAMAGES).

The punitive damages are what caused the huge PINTO settlement, the hute GMC truck settlement, and I believe the McDonald's settlement.
The irony of all of this, of course, is that the attorneys usually rake off most of the loot leaving little for the "Vons" of this world who often don't care anyway, since they've got nothing invested in this but their deposition time.

The CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT is the poor man's litigation. People who normally wouldn't spend $10 an hour on an attorney, band together and get a $500/hour attorney that works for nothing(they think) and pays all court and filing costs.

In a nutshell, a STANDARD lawsuit is for the big shots, with legitimate beefs and large damages, whereas the CLASS ACTION lawsuit is for the "little squirts"....sorry,

The next time you see your insurance premiums rise, look at the breakdown of the increase. You'll most likely notice its almost always coming from the "liability" part of your coverage. The part of your coverage where your insurance carrier, in our society, has to allow for all the litigation is where most of that cost is.

Respectfully,

Gary
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2002, 02:17 PM
Becki
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Default Re: Re: Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Owwwiieee! And I just got a finger cramp from clicking on my mouse. That's it! I'm suing Gateway, the maker of the plastic that forms my mouse and 3M who made my mouse pad. Someone has to pay for this.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2002, 04:34 PM
socialhost
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Default Re: Re: Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Speaking as someone who worked for CCL in the cruise staff dept and had to endure the *****ing of pax like "von" (usually while attempting to host a game show or karaoke!), I would just like to say thanks to all the postings telling this person to shut their cakehole! Wish I could have sued some of the belligerent pax for ruining my cruise with their incessant moaning!!
Yes, this virus is ruining alot of people's vacations. What about the people who work on the ships for 6 to 8 months at a stretch? It was always difficult for us to get well and we never had any option of suing. We also didn't have worker's comp or anything like that. If you got too sick, they sent you home. End of story. Sure you got a minmal compensation, but the whole reason for working on ships was to be on one! Going home sick was the pits! Most people on ships love their jobs, I know I did. I still have friends on almost every CCL ship. Pax, remember when you board a cruise ship, you are being welcomed into the home of almost 1,000 people who's sole job is to make sure you have a good time and want to come back. Don't take out your ire on them or even on CCL Corporate. Unless there was a gross act of negligence, you have no right to sue. And speaking of gross, please spare us any more descriptions of your bowel movements. Thanks!
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old December 16th, 2002, 04:43 PM
socialhost
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Default Re: Re: Re: Can you say

I am an ex-CCL employee, and believe me, I can go on for DAYS about all the things about that company that SUCK. However, you can't pin the blame for this one on them.
After seeing hundreds of thousands of pax come and go, there is one particular type that stands out in my mind....the passenger that came on board just looking for something to be annoyed with and complain about. You could spot them a mile away. Anyone who works in any form of hospitality, tourism, customer service or retail knows the type I am talking about. Trust me, if it wasn't the Norwalk virus, it would've been something else to sue over. I remember pax who wanted to sue CCL because of hurricanes. My favorite response to that was the casino host who told the complainer to sue God.von wrote:

> Dam, I sure caused a stir here? I cannot believe that any of
> you do not think that those who became ill do not deserve a
> refund! You must all be shareholders or something!
>
> Here in Pittsburgh, I am receiving the exact opposite
> sentiment. All of my family,friends,coworkers, and even the
> Doctors and Nurses who were taking care of my father at the
> hospital cannot believe that Carnival has not even offerred
> another cruise(they could offer me 100 of them and I will never
> go again) yet alone a refund. That is why I will probably have
> to go the legal route!
>
> And as far as the Cipro goes, We still have not been
> officially notified on what has ailed us. Norwalk is only an
> assumtion. I went to my Doc on Tues, and who knows what caused
> our symptoms? As far as we know, it could be bacterial! He gave
> me a script for Cipro and said if I still had symptoms in a
> couple of days, take it. Well as of Thurs evening I did (thats
> 5 days of constant diahrea people). I lost another couple of
> pounds overnight (that may be the only positive out of this).
> Since the Cipro was no help (symptoms same), it must be viral.
> I guess I'm just one of the unlucky ones who's taking longer to
> get rid of this(my husband is fine now).
>
> And as far as washing hands goes, I am one of the biggest
> 'germaphobes' out there. When my dad was just admitted before I
> left (hip prob-not to serious), I wiped down his whole room
> with Clorox wipes and made him use antibacterial wipes on his
> hands befor eating. I carry antibacterial wipes and Purell in
> my purse and I always wash my hands thoroughly after using the
> bathroom! On the ship, we even made sure we used the bathroom
> in our cabin only! You can was your hands all you want, but if
> your food preparer doesn't, you're screwed! The ship was filled
> with foreigners who some barely spoke English, what backass
> third-world country are some of them from that they are not
> used to practicing good hygeine? I think the cabin Stewards get
> paid $45/week plus tips! You must be bad off to accept that!
> (In researching, I came across a lawsuit by one against
> Carnival because he became ill, lost work, and Carnival would
> only pay him the $45, not the assumed tips he lost (which are
> automatically added to your bill), but that's a whole other
> issue I don't care about).
>
> The disease is transmitted Fecal - Oral route only. According
> to the CDC and other research studies I came across, state that
> it is only a POSSIBILITY aof being transmitted airborne.
> Acording to CDC, settings of outbreaks are as follows:
> Foodborne-39%,Waterborne-3%,person-to-person(such as sharing
> utensils,etc)-12%,unknown-18%,no data 28%.
>
> If cases due go to court, details will have to come out. We
> can only make assumtions at this point. Carnival is not going
> to release anything that they don't have to. I think that where
> the crew members were employed will have great importance. If
> they all turn out to be food handlers (especially salad
> preparers), that will say something.
>
> Nonetheless , I am done here. This message board is filled
> with cruiselovers,shareholders,employees probably. I cannot
> believe that I live in a different world here in Pittsburgh
> where I am surrounded by support. Would your opinions change if
> Carnival/Holland Amer only continue to have problem? Only time
> will tell...
> Anyway, good luck on all your cruisin'....
>
> Peace out.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old December 17th, 2002, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

The best response that I have read. I am sorry to hear about your woes and your pet, but I am glad to hear that you are alright and moving on. Good luck and hope your bad luck never returns.
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old December 24th, 2002, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

If you really believe you have a law suit contact a lawyer. If he or she says you don't have to pay them unless you win the lawsuit then maybe you do.

The long and the short of it is if we listened to our Grandma's advice and wash hands BEFORE eating and AFTER going to the bathroom all of us would be a lot healthier.

__________________

Carnival Inspiration Western Caribbean- GrandCayman, CostaMaya, Cozumel, Belize
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old January 5th, 2003, 04:14 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2001
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Von,

All I can say is "only in America"...........It is people like you that incite fear and paranoia into the minds of the average traveller. Where do you think those god awful ads on TV stem from, encourgaging people to call and sue for any type of accident or unfortunate incident that may befall them. I will be travelling the Triumph on Feb 8/2003 and taking my chances. My kids had the so called Norwalk (flu) over the holidays and we survived without blaming anyone and we weren't on a cruise ship either.

Merry
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  #70 (permalink)  
Old January 7th, 2003, 11:26 PM
denise2
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Default Re: Re: Re: Can you say

Von...if you are still reading, which from all I have read you have chosen not to subject yourself to further ridicule, please let me know as I have just returned from a Carnival 7 day trip as to which 3 in our group and many others experienced the same as you. Having been there myself, and just recovering I am confused and bothered by what I witnessed while aboard the ship. I watched them attempt to "sterilize " my room while I lay watching on my bed , and to my shock they didn't sterilize or wipe down much at all! If it can be contracted by touching objects exposed (example- the whole COUNTER TOP ) the poor people who boarded after me are in for a sad...sad...time. Speculation isn't enough. This surely requires some investigation as I have never experienced or seen others experience such violent vomitting. It is scary and I am sorry so many chose to attack you regarding your questioning of Carnivals possible negligence. I am not interested in debating anyone else regarding this issue nor will I.
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old January 8th, 2003, 09:22 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you say

The great thing is, she won't debate me on this. I'm on the Legend right now -- writing from the ship's Internet cafe...a friend in our group got a Norwalk-like virus within 24 hours of being on the ship -- since he was staying in Ft. Lauderdale the night before, he surmises he picked it up then because the docs told him it has a 24 to 36 hour incubation period. He was down for the count the first two days of the cruise on some rockin' drugs from what he relays -- and now he's up and fine and enjoying himself thoroughly. In fact, while he was sick, the cabin stewards wouldn't go in to clean the room -- they waited until he was well enough to get up and out, then they bleached the room down....so says our other friend who had to room with him. And the other guy, by the way, isn't sick. In fact, all of us were hugging and in close contact with him the first day right before symptoms manifested and...drum roll...none of us are sick.

I maintain that if you need to sue or otherwise chastise a cruise line because you got sick (maybe didn't wash your hands enough? put your hands in your mouth too much? Hmmmm?) then maybe you shouldn't cruise. Stay at home.

(Sad thing is, there are people like this on the cruise -- a handful, not many -- who are *****ing 'cause in certain public areas you can hear the ship's engine, because we didn't leave right on time, etc...some people ***** just because either they can or because it makes them feel important or good in some way -- the illusion of power? Who knows. How about -- freakin' relax and enjoy the good parts of life and let the bad stuff go? Too difficult for some.)

:>) Lovin' life right now and in Costa Rica tomorrow -- Ciao!
- Amanda
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old January 8th, 2003, 10:38 PM
Sooshie
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Let's analyze this for a moment...Coffee...Hot...Duh! I cannot believe you are defending this case!
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old January 8th, 2003, 11:36 PM
Sooshie
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Can you say

Von, I agree that the tests need to be done to see where the virus is originating. Obviously that is the only way it will be prevented in the future. What I don't see is how
Carnival refunding your cruise will help anyone but yourself and the same goes for attempting to sue them. The bottom line here is GREED and the possibility of having your 5 minutes of fame. I commend Carnival for not giving in and standing firm on not accepting fault for something that they probably had no control over. I feel very confident that if fault is found in your favor that Carnival will do the right thing and somehow compensate those that were unfortunate enough to contract the illness. That is probably why no one has contacted you, that there was no obvious reason to why the virus was on the ship. The CDC has done their homework and I'm sure the tests they are doing on the water supply etc. were inconclusive as to the cause.
Hey, let us know how your lawsuit goes!
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old January 8th, 2003, 11:37 PM
Sooshie
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Default Re: Re: Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Co-workers....?? I thought you were taking time off?
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old January 9th, 2003, 04:47 PM
Alice
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Default Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

If this is a lawsuit about people getting sick on the ship, think about this...

Your lawsuit will only bring prices up for future travelers.

Who do you think could have prevented microscopic viruses from infecting people in a closed space during the virus season????

It seems that the number of people that got sick was fairly low, considering the number of people on the ship.

It is inevitable that any illness, cold or otherwise is going to strike if even 1 person is infected within a confined space like a ship.

What do you hope to accomplish?

Suing them for you getting sick implies that they had some way to prevent it, which they did not. Even with immaculate conditions, viruses abound.

Spend your time doing more productive things.

We live in a litigious society--people blame everyone else for everything that happens--it's a teribble way to exist. Some things are inevitable and nobody's fault.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old January 10th, 2003, 12:03 PM
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Default Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

have you tried going to see your family doctor?
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old January 11th, 2003, 07:34 AM
cruisepimp
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Default Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Von,
You obviously dont have Norwalk considering it only last 48 to 72 hours. I think you need to get a life and move on. You wont get a lawyer to take your case on contingency fee I can guarantee you that.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old January 13th, 2003, 05:22 PM
coolranch
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Default Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Wow. If this poor person still has the "squirts", they're probably completely dehydrated by now.
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2003, 04:16 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 209
Default Re: Re: Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

Right you are not in it for the money!!! Always follow the money trail....you "MIGHT" donate it to charity!!!
Anyway do you remember walking to the dining room and holding on to the hand rails going up or down the stairs???? All it takes is one sick person to infect 100's as everyone is walking and holding on to the rail-hardly Carnivals fault.
Also I would love to know where you got the number of 75% of the people in your dining room getting sick. They all happened to contact you and then you counted how many people were in the dining room and then figured out the percentage. If you happen to KNOW that 75% of the people in the dining room were sick I suppose you don't nned to send out an email looking for people to join your class action suit- you've already had contact with them!!!
I do also have to wonder about anyone who uses language such as the "squirts" to describe diarrea over the internet...but what else can one expect from ambulance chasers!!!!von wrote:

> I wouln't even be thinking about it if Carnival had stepped
> up and done the right thing (as other lines have done) and
> offered those sick in the infermary a refund. I still have not
> had a solid bowel movement (without going into gross detail)
> since last Sunday. I finished up a course of Cipro from my doc
> yesterday in hopes to stop the squirts, no luck. I think
> sometimes these companies need to be held accountable for their
> obvious negligence. Common, some lazy cook, went to the
> bathroom, and didn't wash , contaminating food. Do the math, of
> those sick, 75% came from the same dining room,, what does that
> tell you? IT WAS IN THE FOOD. They need to train and nag their
> staff so it does not happen again. I feel especially bad for
> the eldery victims who had a rougher time. I'm not one of those
> people 'out for a buck', and to prove it, if I do end up with a
> law suit, I am in no need for money, I would seriously
> consider donating ALL IT to a charity! When we were leaving the
> boat, there were people thowing up in buckets on the
> stairwells! I'll bet alot more never made it to the infirmery
> because they didn't get sick till Monday.
> Carnival never informed us of what was going on. On Sat, I
> overheard our cabin neighbors talking about their sick
> children. Shouln't the sick have been quaranteened to stop
> further spread? I don't think they know how to handle this when
> it happens. And as far as the medical care goes, on Tues
> afternoon, at my Doctors, I still had a fever. Carnival never
> even took my temp at all! They gave me a shot in the but to
> stop the vomiting, and never swiped my skin with alcohol first!
> It happened so fast, and I was sick, I didn't react fast enough
> to stip the shot.
> Yeh, bottom line I'm pissed off my vacation was ruined, and
> that I'm still sick, and that my husband had to lose 2 more
> days of work, but it had to be negligence on Carnival's part
> infecting the food or ice (the ice machines were not working
> properly and they had coolers with scoop - the handle rested IN
> the ice), and they should at least refund us sick passengers!
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2003, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

WOW
This must be the record for number of posts to a message. I read thru most and was impressed to see that everyone except for VON were not the ambulance chasers we sometimes believe Americans to be.
Von must have some backbone to have to put up with all these people against her...but then I noticed she stated in bold letters in her last email on the subject that she was not in it for the money (if she has so much why does she even have a job---I think most people work for the MONEY---it's a great incentive...at least that's what I think).
She also had to resort to saying we are all stockholders or employees of which I am neither as I'm sure is the case with most who posted. Sounds like a dog backed into a corner and biting back at whoever backed her into the corner. Thou dost protest too much.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old January 15th, 2003, 08:35 AM
Tim & Tonya
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Default Re: Can you say "Lawsuit"

von
Forget the class action suit. If you do get enough people to jump on your band wagon after the attorneys are finished there will be very little left to go around. I suggest filling a formal complaint they will most likely toss you a little something to get you to go away.H*** at this point I'll toss in a little to get this topic to go away!!

eat-drink-cruise and be merry. lets have fun and enjoy life people.
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