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  #31 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Cruisingrandma
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I am a non smoker. But the Doctor jsut told me this a month ago.... No one can be allergic to Smoke..... there has to be a protein to be allergic to it. So it may annoy you or you may be sensitive to smoke but you cnat be allergic.. I was on the Pride in April. Never smelled smoke even once and I spent some time and money in the casino also. So I cant say the smoke could ruin my cruise. Nothing can ruin my vacations... Just wanted to pass on that bit of info the doctor told me. Happy cruising...
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 09:27 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

It's nice that you consider "smoking on the balcony" a good thing to do. It really helps my asthma - I chose a balcony because of the fresh air - and your smoking on the next one is wonderful - thanks so much - tongue firmly planted in cheek. TTFN Jennifer
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 10:19 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

pg said :
Kim, no, a smoker can't just give it up for a few days, that is a statement made by someone who has obviuosly never smoked.

Yes they can, its been done not by one but by 2 of my family members and 1 friend of the family. (this was a 7day cruise too) Not to mention, one of the family members is a heavy heavy smoker. But I guess some people are just more luckier then others. My dad smoked for years... but one day just decided he was done with it (with the help of me). He finished his last pack of cigarettes, oh wait no, he didn't even get to finish the whole pack... I lets say "took care of them" and he was not happy with the way I did it and neither am I,, but I did it. And in a way I'm happy because he never bought a pack after that. He smoked that last cigarette that he managed out of the pack before I "took care of them" and never had a cigarette after that. And by the way, I'm not saying the reason because its just gonna start another argument.

Pg said:
they make say things like if someone smokes outside and I have to walk on the deck 1/2 hour later it may cause me to die of lung cancer.

nobody has even said it like that. And in my last post I was basically saying, if there is going to be smoking allowed on ships then it should only be allowed outside. I'll repeat what I said....Smoking only allowed outdoors on the decks perhaps the back of the ship even. Just my opinion,,

so DUH!

pg said :
Plus 99% of smokers are very aware nowadays and very considerate!

Funny. Not 99%,, no way. Maybe 50-75 but not 99%

But I have to say pg, I do agree with you on the perfume and body odor!

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!


I smoked for several years. I quite four years ago. It is a terrible habit. I know because of experience. But it galls me to hear narrow minded people giving advice on what people should or should not do. Especially when they say something like, you want to just quit, quit buying them. It isn't that easy. It isn't any more easy than a non smoker thinking that they have the pious right to dictate what others should or should not do. There are plenty of smokers and non smokers out there that have much more filthier public habits than smoking. Like talking through movies, drinking and driving. Allowing their obnoxious children to run all over the place unattended. I hate the smell of cigarette smoke. I hated it when I smoked. But there are many other things that people do that are more dangerous to our health and their own than smoking (outdoors). So maybe on both sides we all should just quit our griping and work on our individual obnoxiousness and try to be more tolerant of others?

Please God don't let me get on a cruise with a bunch of whiners.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old July 7th, 2004, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Be considerate no matter what it is, and others will return the favor. People choose not to smoke because they want to lead healthy lives. They want to walk their daughters down the aisle. They want to have grand kids. They want to be able to vacation (CRUISE) when they retire. They want to have sharp minds. They don't want to be in and out of hospitals and doctors offices. They don't want to spend 5 hours a week with an IV of chemo going into their bodies. My mother was diagnosed with lung cancer a year ago and passed away in February. I know it must be hard to quit because she smoked all the way up to her last month, her last month was in the hospital so she couldn't. She was 57. She didn't get to see her daughter get married this October(my sister). She didn't get to see my children grow up. When I'm feeling down I can't call her. My children ask " where's grandma Pat, I want to go to grandma's house. She was 57. I should of had at least another 25 years with her, but she Choose to smoke. I DON'T, so smokers be considerate and we won't complain.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I'm a non-smoker, and I couldn't care less if smokers want to puff away. My only concern is that I don't want to be exposed to the second-hand smoke. If smokers can do the deed somewhere where I don't have to suck up their smoke, more power to 'em.

Here in Florida, smoking is illegal in just about all indoor areas (excluding homes, of course). I love it, but sometimes have to be reminded that it's not like this everywhere else.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 09:41 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Interesting thread! I am a non smoker. Both parents smoked til they were in their late 50's. I hated the smoke. Same thing for my husband. My parents are still alive at 82 but his father, a doctor, died at 69 from lung cancer. Unless a cruise ship designates a special room for smokers (they do this at the Atlanta airport and maybe others) then people who smoke, no matter how considerate they are, could be risking the health of others. We considered getting a balcony stateroom sometime but the more I read the less I want to. Probably most people have no problem but I have heard where people spent the extra dollars for the balcony but could not use it because the people next door were either smoking (doesn't matter how considerate you are, the smoke drifts) or drinking with a group of others and were quite loud. Either way, their balconies were unusable to them and there went several hundred dollars down the drain.

If there are any teen agers (the largest group of new smokers) reading this thread, please, please listen to what people are saying and DON"T SMOKE! The addiction is a strong one!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 11:50 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

i really did start quite a passionate debate here.. didn't i !!!!!! i believe in all rights of all people, everybody is entitled to their opinion.. i was just stating that i was tired of reading so many complaints about the smell( not the actual smoke clouds!)
and by the way, my balcony was totally aft on the back of the ship, so i doubt that cruising at 30 knots, my smoke went anywhere except behind us!!!! when i booked, after reading all these threads, i didn't want to "OFFEND"anyone, so i booked an extended aft balcony!
my whole point of this whole conversation was to suggest that people write the cruise companies and complain!!! i know for sure that there are cleaning agents that rid the smell of smoke(had a house fire once and the insurance company hired a cleaning company to do my house, smell of burnt plastic blinds and sut gone!!) btw.. before anyone thinks the fire started from careless smoking, it was a candle!!!!!
i think if they spent a longer time in port before hurdling the next weeks passengers in so fast, maybe they could clean the smell better!! i never meant to make this a health issue!!!
nor did i mean to offend anyone!!!!
and maybe while any of you who do complain to the companies, might suggest that they install better smoke eating systems!!!! just a thought!
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 11:53 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I think they already have installed the best they can on the latest ships. It doesn't matter, though, if you're between smoke and the vents, you have to deal with it, if you are on the balcony, you have to deal with it if someone is smoking nearby, if you are up on deck, same thing.

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 04:07 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I have a question.....how does the smoke know that it is supposed to stop when it gets to the non-smoking side of a restaurant.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

KUKI: Yes it is true that obesity kills. But if some one chooses to be obese that does not put your health at risk. If Big Tobacco made a cigarette that only harmed the health of the smoker I wouldn't not complain. Itís a person's choice if they want to kill themselves. But I don't feel that they have the right to take me with them!

Balcony Smokers: I would also like to thank those considerate people that choose to smoke on "their" balcony and pollute the fresh air in mine!
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 05:25 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Good one Cassie -- I don't mind if they smoke in their staterooms - that way they can keep the smoke to themselves - but on the balcony - that is sharing the wealth lol. I have asthma so it is more than a smell complaint. I do keep my inhaler handy so I can keep on breathing. But - give the devil his due - smoking is an addiction and I suppose it must be hard to quit. This is one that is never going to be solved. TTFN Jennifer
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 05:57 PM
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Default Re: Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Wow, I've been glancing through these messages and can't believe that obesity is being compared to smoking and it's news to me that obesity is a choice. I'm an obese ex-smoker. I chose to smoke and I chose to quit, I did not choose to be fat!

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  #44 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I can live with having designated smoking areas (even though as GLW513 asked: "how does the smoke know that it is supposed to stop when it gets to the non-smoking side of a restaurant"...good question), but what I can't live with is the inconsiderate smokers (of which there are many on a cruise ship) that smoke wherever they damn well please; on either side of the ship, in the elevators, in the corridors. I know that if I enter the Casino or a lounge, I will unfortunately encounter smoke, but I make that choice fully informed...however I have very little choice when I enter an elevator.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 06:27 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I know it has been brought up but maybe there should be a smoking side and a non-smoking side of the ship. IF some one JUST HAS to be on one side of the ship they will either have to live with the smoke or not smoke depending on which group you are. Smoking is one of the hardest things to quit. I have seen the addiction. My brother recently quit after 15 years of 2-3 packs a day. It's hard and I realize that. But most smokers know what it does to their lungs and those of the people breathing it in 2nd hand.... it just seems to me that even if you didn't care about your own health that you would at least be considerate of others.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 06:42 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Me too! Me too! I am also a mohekan as in last of. However, I cruised w/ my DD in an inside cabin this past march and she is a militant non-smoker. I just went up to the Lido deck and smoked on the smoking side. In 10 (carribean, Mex Riv, Alaska) cruises over 34+ years I have NEVER smoked in the hallways, by the pursars/excursion desk, outside the dine room, or waiting for an elevator. I give non-smokers their rights and generally try to be aware and coutreous. Difficulties have ocurred with ship staff not knowing or getting right the "smoking" vs. non side of the ship. . Please , non-smoking world I try for you give me my area too.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I know! I know !
Convert the topless area by the stack inot the smoking area!
That way the smokers have company! *jk*
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Throughout the United States, and Canada there are now fairly restrictive laws in place regarding smoking. In these places, it's pretty easy to avoid tobacco smoke.

Certainly these laws were put into place due to public pressure. If the public put the same pressures on the cruise lines, they'd likely see the same result.

Carnival was the first line to attempt a totally non smoking ship. It was a financial failure!
You can bet the mortgage that had it been a huge success, the other cruise lines would have jumped on the bandwagon.

As mentioned in an earlier post, they are trying to come up with a compromise that will work for them..... with some totally non smoking lounges on board!!! Again, if these attempts result in financial success, you're bound to see more of it.

The real KEY to this issue is to vote with YOUR WALLETS... not to complain about it onboard, or wave your arms wildly around someone smoking.

It's simple.. if you find a particular cruise line's smoking policy does not meet your standards, DON"T cruise that line. Take a vacation that better suits your needs. If the cruise lines find they are unsuccesful because of liberal smoking policies, they'll change them... as Carnival did in reverse with the non smoking Paradise.

The Paradise "experiment" failed because bar and casino revenues were much lower than other ships, and cruise lines.
Norweigan Cruise Lines used to have cabins on one side of the ship designated non smoking, and one side smoking. This policy was a financial failure as well.

As is often the case, people seem to voice their displeasure without backing up that displeasure with their money!

If you hand them your money, knowing their policies, and then complain about it, you've got it backwards!

There are many places I wont go, and establishments I won't frequent, because of various policies. I won't give them my money, and then try and insist they do it my way.

As of this time, all the major cruise lines allow smoking in their cabins, and on the private balconies. (Oceania, and Disney do not), and they allow smoking in some public areas.

Knowing this, people have to make the choice if this is a vacation for them!

While there's nothing wrong with trying to bring pressure on the cruise lines to change their policies, it makes little sense to book your cruise, and then insist others around you adapt to your needs, when the cruise line policy clearly tell them they are allowed to indulge in their sins.

Perhaps the smokers book cruises specifically because they are allowed to book onboard.

Bottom line.... It would make little sense for smokers to book the non smoking Paradise (while it is), or Oceania or Disney. But.. it doesn't make any more sense for non smokers to book ships where the policy clearing states smoking is allowed.

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  #49 (permalink)  
Old July 8th, 2004, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Quote think before you type: "But it galls me to hear narrow minded people giving advice on what people should or should not do. Especially when they say something like, you want to just quit, quit buying them. It isn't that easy."

That was my post above, where I made the suggestion to stop buying them. I had a very real smoking habit. I made the decision that my health and the people around me were more important than my ignorant habit, so I made the decision to quit. And YES I just stopped buying them. There is no one holding a gun to anyone's head to buy them. If you don't have them in your posession, you aren't going to smoke them. I am well aware that quitting smoking is tough. I think saying the first step to quitting is to quit buying them is pretty obvious and I resent being referred to as NARROW MINDED. What is narrow minded is the people who continue to smoke, and cry "poor me, I just can't quit. It's not my fault, so stop complaining that I am giving you lung cancer". I am in no way whining about it. You are right that peole have other obnoxious habits, but this thread was about smoking. Just because people do other things that are rude, doesn't justify other rude behaviors. For instance, just because you called me narrow minded, does not make it okay for me to call you something insulting.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old July 9th, 2004, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

My father died when I was 26 years old....he did not get to see his grandaughter grow up...she was his pride and joy....or see her two beautiful daughters. Dad loved life..."you're as young as you feel" ( he died at 61) . "Rise and shine"! he would say ...even it was a crappy day. Smoking took him from us.....I don't want to leave my family or lose them because of other people's habits. I know it is hard to quit..a friend of mine smoked all her life and when she turned 55 she quit cold turkey!

As for the balcony smoking....it was very disturbing to us to go out on our aft balcony to find a cigarette but t on it. Obviously someone tossed it and it blew back onto our balcony. The balcony floors are wood. Does anyone know the DANGERS OF FIRE AT SEA? It is very scary!
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old July 10th, 2004, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I am a non-smoker and I also cannot stand cigarette smoke. My dad smoked 2 packs of Lucky Strikes a day from the age of 12 to 50 when he decided to quit cold turkey. Having that odor in our house was something that I knew from the start I never wanted in my life. The ironic thing is, my dad died 2 years ago at the age of 68 from something called honeycomb lung syndrome that was totally related to his previous history of smoking. I will never stop complaining about smokers or the smell of smoke (or feel guilty about doing so) and wish cigarettes could somehow be banned forever. In a related gripe, WHY do smokers feel free to throw their butts out of their car windows, littering the world? I asked a girl I work with and she said that her car didn't have an ash tray. To me that's a pretty lame excuse, I just think it's laziness!!!
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Old July 11th, 2004, 09:19 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Not everyone follows the rules. I have seen people smoke all over the ship, including in the elevator with us. That is just rude. I dont mind smoking if it is done in the smoking areas. Alot of my family smokes, but they are considerate smokers. There is a difference.
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Old July 11th, 2004, 10:44 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

"As for the balcony smoking....it was very disturbing to us to go out on our aft balcony to find a cigarette butt on it. Obviously someone tossed it and it blew back onto our balcony. The balcony floors are wood. Does anyone know the DANGERS OF FIRE AT SEA? It is very scary!"

And I mentioned something about bringing a travel iron on a future cruise and was shot down because irons are a "fire hazard"...AND CIGARETTES AREN'T??? Smokers: You like to smoke, the residue of your bad habit is smoke in my bloodstream, lungs, heart, as well as my clothes, hair etc. I like to drink beer while playing in the casino. The residue of my habit is urine. How would you like me to climb up on your shoulders and pee on your head, how would you like that??

Oh, and the comment about obese people and buffets. My husband was overweight and has changed his unhealthy eating habits and has lost over 50 pounds, but he still has to eat. He cannot give up food because he would obviously die. However, you smokers do not have to smoke to live. There are numerous measures you can take to give up smoking for the benefit of all of us! Please think about it!!!

Now, I will get down off of my soap box!
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2004, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Here we go again. I smoked for over 25 years and I have now been smoke free for 7 years. I never realized how terrible smokers smell when I smoked. You can tell a smoker by the smell. Do you really want to smell bad???? I had my gallbladder out a couple of weeks ago and I was so pleased when before my operation the nurse commented about how healthy my lungs sounded. That really made me not want to ever be around smoking. Everyone knows how bad smoking is for you so it needs to be made hard for smokers to smoke so they will give it up. No smoking on ships!!!! Wow, That might stop people from smoking. If you could never go on a cruise again because you smoke I bet you would give it up real quick. I tried a few times to stop smoking but I was doing it for my husband and not for myself so I could never do it. One day I woke up and picked up a cigarette and thought to myself "I really dont want this" I threw all my cigarettes away and never even craved them ever. I was doing it for myself and my kids. To this day I hate that I put my family through my smoking. My twin sons have asthma and I still smoked around them. How stupid of me. I am honestly ashamed that I thought of myself and not of them. Now when I see anyone smoking around others especially children I think that they too should be ashamed. I have also heard how ex smokers are the worst about smoking I agree because we have been on both sides. I have decided that I want my lungs to be healthy and other smokers should not have rights that will make me unhealthy. Sorry so long but this is a very touchy subject for me.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2004, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

"Bottom line.... It would make little sense for smokers to book the non smoking Paradise (while it is), or Oceania or Disney. But.. it doesn't make any more sense for non smokers to book ships where the policy clearing states smoking is allowed."
So you're saying, essentially, that nonsmokers should not cruise? That's what that says to me.
That's too bad, I really liked the idea of cruising I can always try dinghy cruising



Post Edited (07-12-04 09:10)
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2004, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Wow..this thread really brings out the passion of cruisers..for the record I have never smoked, am very sensitive to second hand smoke, both my parents smoked and have cruised in Europe several times on Greek own lines where the majority of passengers were from Europe and smoked (talk about being in a minority)

I think what amplifies this issue is that a cruise ship is in a very closed enviroment and one cannot escape the smoke where on land you can go outside and smoke and avoid the pollution (as if our skies aren't polluted with enough stuff).

As several posters have stated the Paradise smoke free experiment failed due to economics (incremental onboard revenue) so Kuki makes a valid point about cruise selection with your beliefs but again our original poster just indicated that she was tired of hearing non smokers complain, and there is nothing wrong in saying that because she knows it's no going to change.

Society's prevailing attitude in the USA today leans towards non smoking for health considerations. Most smokers comply with the non smoking regulations in our every day life. In Europe (from my experience) society leans towards smokers. When non smokers travel or cruise to Europe we yield to that.

Perhaps the Paradise can designate the summer season (since the greater number of families cruise then) as a smoke free cruise experiment, charge a surcharge (and tell people why (to make up for loss revenue) and that will go back to Kuki's point about "walking the walk". If smokers elect to cruise during the summer on the Paradise they understand the rules.Other cruise lines will follow if it is successful I'm curious, in households where one parent smokes and one doesn't, what happens ? I suspect they co-exist..why can't we do this on our cruise ships ?
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old July 12th, 2004, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I may have misrepresented myself. I am not saying that cruisers should not cruise if they smoke. I meant if they made all cruise lines non smoking I think more people would be able to quit smoking. Just trying to help the smoker to be a non smoker. I am not a real strong person and if I can stop than anyone can.
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Old July 12th, 2004, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

Smokers, why don't you use chewing tobacco, nicotine laced gum, or nicotine patches? If you refuse to then I suggest you just turn to drinking and leave the cigarrette alone. That way at least you only kill yourself and no one else with your second hand smoke.
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Old July 12th, 2004, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

The Paradise was a failure. That is the only reason they are droping the non smoking policy . The market was not there for the Paradise. Carnival said they had trouble booking large groups on the Paradise. The casino and bar revenues were lower than the rest of the fleet. It's all about money, had it made more revenue than the other ships you would see more non smoking ships in a heartbeat. There is no argument that Americans are much more parnoid about so called health issues today than they were in the 50's and 60's, while the rest of the world has a much move cavalier outlook on life



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  #60 (permalink)  
Old July 13th, 2004, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: sick of non-smokers complaining!!

I wouldn't call Paradise a 'failure,' not in the normal sense of the word. It didn't make as much as the other ships. I think that is easily traced to a few small problems. Still, you have a look around and there is a very loyal group of very upset Paradise REGULARS. Not too many ships have such a following.

Carnival's problem is advertising.
They came up with probably the best concept for cruising since good food. There was a bit of hype when it came out. What is important is what happened next.
Absolutely
Positively
Essentially
NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING!
They continued their normal ads for other ships. Paradise was any other ship. Smoke-free was the small print. Had the nonsmoking population known about it in great numbers, there would have been no problem.
Instead, unless you looked hard at the brochures, websites, reviews or heard from your TA or a friend, the thought of a non-smoking ship might not have crossed your mind, especially not with just one.
So, what happened is an ok number of normal pax. came aboard, but the die-hard nonsmokers did too, and the people who knew about it invariably included large numbers of nondrinkers and nongamblers.
I'm SURE the ship made lots of money the week after the change when they had the group of jehovah's witnesses coming on.
I was informed the other day that the ship wasn't exactly in the red, but was making far less than the otherships.
This is based on information gathered firsthand on the 12/7/03 cruise when the information came through of the end of the nonsmoking and the repositioning, and on this past sunday at brunch with our 3-time maitre'd, and some of the stuff I noticed as well.



Post Edited (07-13-04 08:48)
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