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  #1 (permalink)  
Old December 13th, 2003, 12:21 PM
Sue Sue
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Default Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Just heard about the repositioning of the Paradise to Baja 3-4 day short cruises. Unfortunately, this wonderful ship will no longer be SMOKE FREE; For those of us who truly enjoyed a smoke free cruise vacation we are truly losing a wonderful breath of fresh air. Well, goodbye to cruising for my family and I. All we have now are our special memories.

Mike and Sue Behm

Mardi Gras 1989
Paradise 2001 W. Carb
Paradise 2002 E. Carb
Paradise 2003 W. Carb
Paradise 2003 E. Carb
Paradise 2004 - W. Carib Ourfarewell cruise :>(
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Old December 13th, 2003, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Wow, I hadn't heard of that! But it will be nice to have something other than Ecstasy (for the last number of years)

Harry
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Old December 13th, 2003, 12:29 PM
Denny
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Gee, I wonder why Carnival is no longer going to have a smoke free ship? Could it be that they couldn't fill the boat with non-smokers? Do smokers spend more money? It would be interesting to find out.
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Old December 13th, 2003, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

There's no guesswork involved. They had the only truly unique ship in the industry, from the non smoking point of view and they abandoned it. It wasn't because it was making too much money <G>

There are "some" alternatives available to the non-smoking cruiser still. Oceana Cruises have VERY limited smoking area. One very small area in one of the lounges, and one limited area on deck smoking is allowed, and the rest of the ship is non smoking.... even the cabins.

RCI is becoming more restrictive with smoking regulations, but it is allowed in the cabins, and some of their lounges...and still allowed in the casino.

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Old December 13th, 2003, 03:07 PM
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Default Re: Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Yes, I think they do spend more money. I just did the Glory 11/15/03 and it had smoke everywhere even in areas that were for nonsmokers. There were 22 bars and seems like all the smokers had a drink in one hand and a cigarette in the other all the time so that meant more $$$$$$$$ for Carnival.

I did Paradise last March and really loved it. This is odd for I just sent Carnival an email a couple of weeks ago asking if they couldn't move it to Tampa or Port Canaveral because we hate Miami. Did not receive a reply. Told them of all the smoke on GLory and that not one crew member ever said anything. Had the same problem on Pride 11/02. Guess it is time to check out other cruise lines.
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Old December 13th, 2003, 03:30 PM
cruise?
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

sue sue,

okay you drama queen. you act as if you so sad by your decision. I am not a smoker at all, but i dont let smokers control my life. If someone else is smoking around you, then you can just move somewhere else. If you chose not to crusie, I sure cant feel sorry for you in the least bit.

gald not to see you on the next ship,
ken
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Old December 13th, 2003, 03:36 PM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Basically it is hard to book many groups on the Paradise as there are almost always smokers in any large group. This hurts bookings as they pretty much have to rely on individuals to fill the ship. Smokers tend to spend more money on booze and gambling but non-smokers tend to spend more on shopping and shore excursions. I hate to see it go as well being a non-smoker but maybe they can make some more ships non-smoker friendly by restricting smoking to outside areas on one side of the ship , smoking in one lounge and one part of the casino, or something like that.
Jim

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Old December 13th, 2003, 03:51 PM
tennis837
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Default Re: Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I just called Carnival at 888-Carnival and asked if I could book 10/03/03 for the western Caribbean out of Miami and the girl was more than anxious to book it. Does anyone know what happens if she does and then it moves?
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Old December 13th, 2003, 03:56 PM
tennis837
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Default Re: Re: Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Oops, I meant October, 2004.
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Old December 13th, 2003, 04:25 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Then you will be booked on a cruise that goes to Mexico from Calif. Listen, I am sorry that your TA's don;t have the info or even some of the lines agents but this is what has been ordered and planned and the information that has been released from the main office. Just goes to show you that you get the latest and best information right here at Cruisemates! <G>
Jim

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Old December 13th, 2003, 04:46 PM
Sue Sue
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

This message goes directly to Ken from the Drama Queen; Why do you have to be so rude?

You wrote, "okay you drama queen. you act as if you so sad by your decision. I am not a smoker at all, but i dont let smokers control my life. If someone else is smoking around you, then you can just move somewhere else. If you chose not to crusie, I sure cant feel sorry for you in the least bit.

gald not to see you on the next ship,
ken "


Well Ken let me fill you in on something. I AM sad about this decision. I would BE SO HAPPY TO NOT LET SMOKERS CONTROL MY LIFE, BUT due to a severe allery to tobacco smoke, unfortnately I have no choice. Any exposure causes my bronchi to fill with fluid and I CAN NOT BREATHE. And talk about not letting smokers control your life, what a hipocrite you are. The act of moving if someone is smoking near you is exactly that. You move, they "the smokers" control you. You are so clueless Ken. You go on to mention you " ...cant feel sorry for (me) in the least bit. :" What compassion Ken, this world certainly needs more people like you around.

Then you go on to say .. "glad not to see you on the next ship" You know Ken I hope I do vacation with you someday. Then when we are swimming in the pool, I can urinate in one section and you can just move and avoid that part of the water.

Folks, my post is not to encourage the smoking/non smoking argument. This topic is so...so old. I posted a personal reponse to a report I read. If you have something negative to say, why not go over to the Gripe board. For the record, I never have and never will NOT support smoking venues for anyone who wants to smoke. I feel it is peoples right to do so if they want. HOWEVER, what about support for non-smoking venues in return. What is wrong with this idea. So, if anyone out there cares, please mention the importance of keeping a nonsmoking ship to Carnival.

Oh, and Ken, take note of our fellow cruisemates who posted responses to my message. They show what intellegent, concerned and well rounded human beings are like. Read the messages Ken to see what class is. Positive, informative and supportive. Thanks to Harry, Denny, Kuki, tennis and Jim.

Posted, In My Most Humble Opinion, and with anew Title, Sue Sue, The Drama Queen
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Old December 13th, 2003, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Sue Sue The Drama Queen <G> Well said and I am a smoker but I wish I wasn't. If I'm in the casino or anywhere for that matter where you may smoke I always ask the person next to me if they mind. It's called courtesy.Some people have it others don't. I always thought the non-smoking ship was great for non-smokers hopefully they will reconsider.....

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Old December 13th, 2003, 06:16 PM
Sue Sue
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Thanks cruisin4fun. I do hope those with the power reconsider as well. My family and I looked forward to our Paradise vacation. And there are alot of folks out there who do enjoy a smoke free vacation. It is wonderful to be able to enjoy all parts of cruising. ie; Disco, casino, sitting by the pool etc. Yes well, all good things........ Well, maybe not, I have hope at least. Thanks again, SSTDQ
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Old December 13th, 2003, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Well Ken, I with Sue hope NOT to see you on any of my cruises, not because of the smoking thing, but because of your hostility towards others and their feelings. And as far as walking away from smokers, what are you going to say when standing next to someone with stinky, smoky smelling clothes in the buffet line?

I am VERY disappointed with Carnival's decision, now they will just be like any other cruiseline...guess no big reason to stay with them...

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Old December 13th, 2003, 07:52 PM
starfighter
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I'm not a smoker, but I always thought excluding a segment of the population when you need around 2000 patrons, was a tricky decision. Finding 2000 or so cruisers for a particular set of destinations, each and every week, is tough enough without setting those kinds of exclusions. I'm surprised it lasted this long. I think it's adequate enough to just limit smoking to certain parts of the ship.
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Old December 13th, 2003, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I wish there were other itinerarys for non-smoking ships. I would LOVE a non-smoking ship. I keep thinking that I would love to be able to keep my door open and sit on the veranda having breakfast or tea. I really can't though because usually my next door neighbours smoke all the time (really bad on the Disney ship) which means I get to look out the door but have to check the "wind" on the veranda before actually going out. I am not mean and "talk" to my neighbours but it would be nice. The same thing around the deck and pool. On my first cruise (it was the worst) there were a lot of smokers. I kept moving all the time. I don't like to cause a fuss.
tigercat
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Old December 13th, 2003, 07:58 PM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I wish there were other itinerarys for non-smoking ships. I would LOVE a non-smoking ship. I keep thinking that I would love to be able to keep my door open and sit on the veranda having breakfast or tea. I really can't though because usually my next door neighbours smoke all the time (really bad on the Disney ship) which means I get to look out the door but have to check the "wind" on the veranda before actually going out. I am not mean and "talk" to my neighbours but it would be nice. The same thing around the deck and pool. On my first cruise (it was the worst) there were a lot of smokers. I kept moving all the time. I don't like to cause a fuss.
tigercat
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old December 13th, 2003, 09:49 PM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I just talked to Carnival and they informed me that the Paradise is staying a non-smoking ship and is staying in the Caribbean. So glad as I am booked on her for next Oct.
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Old December 13th, 2003, 10:03 PM
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Default Re: Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Oh gosh Katenanna45, I don't know who you talked to but let me repost the press release I received a few days ago directly from the main office at Carnival Cruise Lines. This information was for release to the general public Friday.
Jim

CARNIVAL TO INCREASE CAPACITY IN GALVESTON 38 PERCENT WITH DEPLOYMENT OF
ECSTASY IN FALL 2004; PARADISE TO ASSUME ECSTASY'S THREE- AND FOUR-DAY WEST
COAST CRUISE PROGRAM

MIAMI (12/12/03) - Carnival Cruise Lines, the world's largest cruise
operator, will increase capacity by 38 percent from Galveston when the
2,052-passenger "Fun Ship" Ecstasy replaces the 1,486-passenger Celebration
on year-round four- and five-day Mexico cruises in October 2004. The
Celebration will be deployed to another homeport.
In turn, the 2,052-passenger Paradise will assume the Ecstasy's
popular three- and four-day Baja cruises from Long Beach, Calif., beginning
in September 2004, becoming the newest cruise ship ever to operate short
cruises from the West Coast.
"Just three years ago Carnival established Galveston as cruising's newest
homeport. The addition of the Ecstasy next year, combined with the
Elation's year-round cruises from Galveston, will result in an estimated
300,000 'Fun Ship' passengers cruising annually from that port," said Bob
Dickinson, Carnival president and CEO. "Carnival is Texas' leading cruise
line and this latest capacity increase just further solidifies that
position."
He added, "We are also very enthused to introduce the Paradise to the West
Coast market on three and four-day Baja cruises. This is a truly elegant,
beautifully appointed vessel offering a wide variety of on-board facilities
and features, along with stunning interiors that pay homage to the world's
most famous ocean liners. The Paradise certainly represents an enticing
option for consumers seeking an affordable, quality cruise vacation option
from the West Coast."
Dickinson indicated that the Paradise, which has operated since its
introduction in 1998 as a smoke-free vessel, will no longer retain that
designation. "When we analyzed our redeployment strategy, the Paradise,
based on its size and attributes, was the obvious choice to offer a fresh
new short cruise alternative from California. And, with only one ship
operating that program, we could not limit it to non-smokers," he said.

Four- and Five-Day Mexico Cruises from Galveston on Ecstasy
Beginning Oct. 23, 2004, the 70,000-ton SuperLiner Ecstasy will
launch year-round four- and five-day service from Galveston, becoming the
only year-round ship to operate short cruises from that port.
On this route, four-day cruises depart the historic Port of Galveston on
Thursdays and call at Cozumel, offering the ideal long weekend getaway.
Five-day cruises, departing Mondays and Saturdays, are particularly
noteworthy as they offer guests the opportunity to visit two of the
Caribbean's most popular destinations, Cozumel and Calica/Playa del Carmen,
in less than a week's time.
Guests can also combine their cruise with a pre- or post-cruise land
stay during which they can visit Galveston's many historic sites and
museums, or shop and dine along the Strand, the city's renowned
entertainment district.

Three- and Four-Day Baja Cruises on Paradise
Beginning Sept. 20, 2004, the 70,000-ton Paradise will begin
year-round three- and four-day cruises from Long Beach, becoming the newest
ship to ever operate short cruises from the West Coast.
On this route, three-day cruises depart Long Beach on Fridays and
call at Ensenada, Mexico, while four-day cruises depart Mondays and call at
both Ensenada and Catalina Island.

Special 15-Day Panama Canal Cruises
Prior to the start-up of their new programs, the Paradise and
Ecstasy will each operate special one-time 15-day Panama Canal repositioning
cruises.
On Sept. 5, the Paradise will depart Miami, arriving in Long Beach
on Sept. 20, 2004. Featured ports will include Aruba, prior to the Panama
Canal transit, along with Puntarenas, Costa Rica; and Acapulco, Mazatlan and
Cabo San Lucas, Mexico. This will be the last cruise the Paradise will offer
as a non-smoking vessel.
On its 15-day Panama Canal cruise, the Ecstasy will depart Long
Beach on Sept. 17 and arrive in Miami Oct. 2, 2004. Ports of call on this
voyage will include Acapulco and Puntarenas, prior to the Panama Canal
transit, as well as Aruba, and Ocho Rios, Jamaica. After arriving in Miami,
the Ecstasy will undergo a 20-day drydock then launch year-round service
from Galveston Oct. 23, 2004.

Pricing and Reservations
Carnival will begin accepting reservations on the Ecstasy and Paradise's new
cruise programs next week.
Prices for the Ecstasy's four- and five-day Mexico cruises from Galveston
start at $349 and $449 per person, respectively, based on double occupancy.
Rates for the Paradise's three- and four-day Baja cruises from Long Beach
start at $299 per person. The ships' 15-day Panama Canal cruises begin at
$1,099 per person.
The cruises can also be purchased through Carnival's "Fun Finance Plan
(SM)," which enables consumers to extend their cruise payments over 24
monthly installments. Certain restrictions apply.
Round-trip air transportation supplements from a variety of North American
gateways and special rates for third and fourth guests sailing in the same
stateroom are also available.
For additional information and reservations, contact any travel
agent, call 1-800 CARNIVAL, or visit carnival.com.
###
Carnival Cruise Lines is a proud member of the exclusive World's Leading
Cruise Lines. Our exclusive alliance also includes Holland America Line,
Princess Cruises, Cunard Line, Costa Cruises, Windstar Cruises and The
Yachts of Seabourn. Sharing a passion to please each guest, and a
commitment to quality and value, our member lines appeal to a wide range of
lifestyles and budgets. Together, we offer exciting and enriching cruise
vacations to the world's most desirable destinations

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old December 13th, 2003, 10:28 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

This is terrible news. While my husband and I had a great time on the Sensation in 2001, the only reason we decided to cruise again was due to the smoke-free environment on the Paradise. No, Ken, it is not a simple matter of "moving." People on the Sensation smoked in the elevators. Our cabin reeked of it. Walking through the atrium at night was hellish, it was difficult to get through without gagging and your eyes burning - and forget using any room near the atrium. And if a smoker plopped down next to you at the pool, it's not easy to move to another seat when they're all taken.

I figured Carnival was losing money on the Paradise which is why I admired them all the more as a cruise line, for having the guts to offer an option to non-smokers and be the ONLY cruiseline to do so even if it wasn't beneficial to them - and let's face it, I doubt having ONE non-smoking ship was putting them in the red, they just weren't making as much as what they could have been. I thought that was a sign of true dedication to their customers. I'm very disappointed that they have let "the bottom line" overshadow that and that essentially my cruising days are over. I'm glad I got the opportunity to enjoy one smoke-free cruise, though, and I'll remain grateful for that. Until someone else offers this service I doubt I could be convinced to cruise again, especially when we have kids to consider.

One thing that sure will change is the smoker/non-smoker debate. It always irked me that some smokers (not all) would resort to "well , stop complaining you can go on the Paradise!" Well, now we can't, so I guess all we can do is complain. : )
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Old December 14th, 2003, 01:39 AM
patrick brennan
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I am sorry to hear this!! I am a heavy smoker and thought that having a non smoking ship was great for those that do not smoke to have a ship to enjoy cruising also. But I also understand business, if non smokers can not fill a ship it has to go.
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Old December 14th, 2003, 02:05 AM
TomS
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I too am disapointed that Carnival is ending the Paradise's tradition of being smoke-free. She was the first ship I cruised on, and I enjoyed it immensely. I have also cruised on the Elation and Carnival Triumph, and I did not have any problems with the smoke, except in the piano bar, and to a lesser extent, the disco and the casino. I did notice that they set up some no smoking blackjack tables in the casino, though. Ventilation was pretty good, and that really helped clear out the smoke. I did not notice many people smoking on deck, either.

After seeing this posts I have three questions;

1. What are they going to do with the Celebration?

2. What ship will replace the Paradise?

3. Will Carnival build a new totally smoke-free ship?

I suspect they may run the Celebration out of Mobile, AL full time. They had good success when they did some cruises from there on the Holiday. They could use Pensacola, FL, but I don't think they have a passenger ship terminal, and the road access to Mobile is better. Pensacola does have better air connections, however, and Pensacola is about an hour sailing time closer to the Gulf of Mexico. Another problem could be that Pensacola Bay is too shallow, but I think it is deep enough for cruise ships.

As for Paradise's replacement, I think they will use the Carnival Valor when she comes on-line.next fall. Carnival has only one Sunday departure during the summer months on Sundays from Miami. While Saturdays are the traditional starting dates for 7 day cruises, Sundays are better, expecially for those from western states who need to fly in the day before the cruise.

Will Carnival build a new smoke-free ship? When I was on the Carnival Triumph, the cruise director, John Heald, said Carnival planned more smoke-free ships. I know they had plans for more smoke-free ships, but they may have been shelved after the Paradise expierence. I don't think they've laid the keel for the Carnival Liberty just yet and the Carnival Valor is still under construction. As other posters pointed out, Paradise lags other similar ships in bar and casino revene, two major sources of on-board revenue for the cruise lines. This was partially recouped by higher shopping and shore excursion revenues, but they couldn't offset the lower fares and other revenue sources. I do think Carnival was turning a profit on the Paradise, but that profit margin was very slim. If they make a larger ship, such as a ship from the Conquest class, smoke-free, the principle of economies of scale may help out here.

Sue sue, you may wish to consider another ship. Carnival does not allow smoking in the dining rooms, main show lounge, aft show lounge (usually used for stand up comedy routines and lounge singers), elevators, corridors, and the promenade. I am somewhat sensitive to cigarette smoke, and I did not have a problem with it, except in areas I stated above.

TomS
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Old December 14th, 2003, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

First of all, I would like to thank Patrick for being a considerate smoker. HUGSSS!

And JIm, I know you expect everyone to accept your word as gospel, even though some of us have decided not to accept your word as fact and check it out on our own, and have been told so far by CARNIVAL that this is not true. Who knows, it MAY, and I emphasize the word MAY, be out to be true, but you seem amazed that everyone doesn't just believe you, and God forbid, check it out for themselves....

As far as Carnival not being able to fill the Paradise, well, I've sailed her numerous times and have found the ship to be QUITE full, so I'm not sure where that is coming from...

Still keeping my fingers crossed!

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Old December 14th, 2003, 09:43 AM
Sue Sue
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Tom,
Thanks for bringing up some good questions and backing them up with logical opinion. I hope you are right. Also, thanks for your suggestion to try another ship. However, unfortunately I can not handle any tobacco smoke. My concern is while on the ship as opposed to a land vacation, there is really no where else to go. There are areas on a ship that must be passed by in order to go from point A to B. On Paradise there was total freedom and land vacations you can avoid those areas. Also, since cabins are not resctricted from smoking I really don't have any option left. Spraying and defumegating does not work as I am senstive to the chemicals. (Let's face it, I am just a lost cause..:-)....) I wish I could sail on other ships because there are so many more beautiful cruises. I read about the wonderful experiences posted by so many people and wish I could be on those trips as well. But, I am happy for the stories, so folks, don't forget your trip reviews!
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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:01 AM
Sue Sue
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Tom,

Thanks for bringing up some good questions and backing them up with logical opinion. I hope you are right. Also, thanks for your suggestion to try another ship. However, unfortunately I can not handle any tobacco smoke. My concern is while on the ship as opposed to a land vacation, there is really no where else to go. There are areas on a ship that must be passed by in order to go from point A to B. On Paradise there was total freedom and land vacations you can avoid those areas. Also, since cabins are not resctricted (Spraying and defumegating does not work as I am senstive to the chemicals. Let's face it, I am just a lost cause..:-)....) and from what I read Carnival does not enforce the non-smoking rules, I really don't have any option left.

Anyway Tom, thanks for the info. I do try to talk myself into rethinking my train of thought, I will keep your suggestions in mind. I wish I could sail on other ships because there are so many more beautiful cruises. I read about the wonderful experiences posted by so many people and wish I could be on those trips as well. But, I am happy for the stories, so folks, don't forget your trip reviews!
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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:30 AM
starfighter
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I certainly didn't mean to state as fact that Carnival was unable to fill the ship from time to time, as I'm sure they did. My only suggestion was that if they didn't fill it up all the time, which is likely since many ships sail with less than 100% bookings, they might attribute that as a factor. That seems a logical assumption to make and let's face it, their primary responsibility is, unfortunately, to their stockholders.
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Old December 14th, 2003, 10:36 AM
Denny
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Sue-Sue, I do believe that there are ships out there that only allow smoking on one side of the ship. I want to say that we took ncl and were told that only one side of the ship was smoking. The other side was non-smoking, including the cabins. I seem also to recall that ashtrays were only on one side. Perhaps this could be an alternative for you. I do agree that the Casino can get smokey, but the new Glory seemed to have better exhaust and ventilation than other ships we have been on. Good luck in your search.
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Old December 14th, 2003, 11:46 AM
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Default Re: Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Not me Jean. I didn't write the press release nor make the report. It came from the main office, I just posted it. I'm not asking you to believe me at all, just believe what is before your eyes from the top management of the cruiseline that owns the ship in question is all. I wish it wasn't true either as we are non-smokers but alas, it is.
Jim

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Old December 14th, 2003, 01:24 PM
spike
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

I guess that, COUGH COUGH, means that people who cannot be near smoke, COUGH, will have to, COUGH, suffer or not cruise at all. Isn't it funny that the cruise industry is going 180 degrees out of step with the rest of the lodging/vacation industry. Allmost everywhere else, smoking is becoming more restrictive.
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Old December 14th, 2003, 04:32 PM
Sue Sue
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Default Re: Sad day for Paradise Cruisers

Denny, Thanks, I will check out NCL. Maybe I will hop on over to thier boards and sound it out. Although, it gripes me to pay my very hard earned vacation dollars on a cruise and then not be able to use the casino or disco, two place I enjoy very much. Oh well, there are worse things in life. All things work out eventually. Thanks again.
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