Nope, not holier than thou. I've done plenty of unethical things and still make wrong decisions, as much as I try not to. At this point in my life, though, I listen to, not blame, people when they correctly point out that something I'm doing isn't right. Pretty simple stuff, no different than what our parents taught us.
And I've never understood the idea that to behave with honor is to eschew "having fun." If someone can only "have fun" by ripping someone off, that individual has worse problems than someone remarking on unethical behavior.
1. The logic I was referencing was used by yourself in that it was ok to smuggle drinks because "it isn't like you don't buy drinks" onboard the ship.
2. If you have to justify why it is ok you are breaking the rules, you know that you are doing something wrong, at least according to the written policy.
3. The Constitution is not the same thing as a company's policy. The reason the Constitution is constantly being interpreted is that the language is very general in order to apply in varying circumstances . . . it was written that way so that we do not have to have thousands of amendments. A company's policy that says "each person must purchase their own soda card" is quite specific and there is no other way to interpret that policy. The language is quite clear.
I don't obsess over what other people are doing, and I do not feel "holier than thou." I know that I am far from perfect, however I do not, nor will I ever, understand why people can so blantantly ignore policies and rules. As a teacher, I know that this attitude is passed on to children, who learn that there is nothing wrong with cheating on a test, lying to their parents or stealing small items from a store.
Right's right, wrong's wrong. People doing wrong know it, that's why they scream when its pointed out.
When somebody I know does wrong, and I know it. They may be friendly, entertaining, intelligent, witty, but they'll never be trusted by me.
I can see and understand both sides of the problem. Yes, we should abide by the rules, but can it be that when a cruise line makes rules , they have the freedom to up the price so high, that it puts some people in a position where they feel they have to bend the rules? To tell you the truth, I don't gamble and I don't drink alcoholic drinks, but I do buy the soda card. I read the original post and it suggested that the one doesn't even drink sodas that much. Now, take someone who drinks a tremendous amount of soda and one who drinks a small amount of soda.... what's the difference if 2 people together drink 50 cokes during the cruise on one card, and another person drinks 50 cokes with one card? My husband has never used my card on the cruise, but I have to admit that if my teen daughter happens to pass by and I had a coke, she would come over and take a couple sips...does that make me dishonest or breaking the law? Rubbish iif you say yes, because it isn't as if I ordered another one because I happen to allow her to sip mine!
I think half the problem is the cruise lines are getting high and mighty with their rules and regulations in order to scalp passengers as much as possible. Maybe people should rebel against these rules, by NOT ever buying liquor or sodas during the cruise, until they change their rules! THAT would be legal! I guess I have mixed feeling on this matter because I am a believer in following the rules, but some of the finger pointing is certainly strong and not necessary.
Right, Zoomer. The problem's not unethical behavior; the problem's other people pointing it out. If only these guys from the Dark Ages would open themselves to the cutting-edge concepts of round planets and acceptable degrees of thievery, everything would be fine.
Sheesh. If you're not worried that what you're doing is wrong, why work so hard to discredit the people who comment on your dishonesty?
Getting a little close to personal attack here people. As I stated, everyone has their own level of comfort when it comse to personal honesty and integrity and unless you are actually breaking the law and doing something illegal it is up to the individual. Everyone has faults and one should not condemn others for minor infractions or bending rules. Breaking laws are one thing, breaking 'rules' is another. Let's play nice ya'll
There is a difference between ethics and "the rules".
In school it was against "the rules" to chew gum, if anyone wants to say chewing gum is unethical I will simply laugh in their face.
There are rules based on ethics and rules that simply favor the company.
The soda card is purchased for money it allows the bearer to show it and get a soda an unlimited number of times during that period. Only one person can use it at a time. Whether you share the card or not, only one person at a time can use it. If the company says each card may only be used by only the person who signed it , that is not ethics that is a rule that services Carnivals needs.
If you take someones soda card without their consent thats unethical, If they lend you their soda card, that may break the rules but its not unethical. Only one person at a time can use that soda card no matter who signs it.
Im not screaming at all the "moralizers" but they are still wrong.
Similarly, the part about not allowing outside booze is also a rule. It is not done to protect passengers but to allow carnival to sell alcohol for $4.50 a glass.
In short company rules and ethics are 2 different things. People shouldnt be shocked when a company sets rules that rig the game and people seek ways around those rules.
Just to make it clear, I have no intention of bringing alcohol on boad or using someone elses soda card.
It's not so surprising that a company would "rig" the "rules" to "favor itself," is it? After all, that company is in business to make money. And if I'm not mistaken, most or all cruiselines spell out their policies in writing as part of the passenger contract, so the passenger implicitly agrees to hold up his/her end of the bargain once he/she steps on board. Not to do so is in fact an ethical breach.
But let's look at it a different way. Let's say I decide I have no intention of further enriching a cruise line by paying for liquor or my own sodas. So I smuggle a week's worth of booze onboard and "borrow" others' cards for all my sodas, and the cruiseline loses everything I would have spent on alcohol and pop. Hey, that's okay, because they're a big company making a lot of money, right? What's $50, $100, $150 to them?
Now imagine a majority of passengers--or even a significant number of passengers--does the same thing. How long will it be before the cruise line starts to raise everyone's fares because of my own and others' propensity for getting something for nothing? Is bringing everyone else's costs up because of my own cheapassity an ethical action?
Is this likely to happen? Of course not. But it's the logical end to come out of your line of reasoning. For it *not* to happen requires that most people conduct themselves honestly on the question of soda cards and smuggling booze aboard--and that means that the cheaters are expecting everyone else to subsidize their own actions. I'd call that the epitome of unethical behavior.
The reality is that the gamblers and drinkers are subsidizing the kids, non-gamblers, and tea-totallers. We keep the fares reasonable because of what we lose on the tables and spend in the bars.
If we choose to bring on board a bit of booze for ourselves, thereby causing the fares to rise, the result would be that everyone would suddenly have to pay his own fair-share instead of getting a cheaper ride at our expense.
Anyone who believes in fairness and equality will support those who carry their own booze on board to help take the burden off our backs.
Just so you know I am a non-drinker and I will purchase my own soda card.
However, in Carnivals case they make the same faulty assumptions as European governments that try to slap $5 a pack tax on cigarettes. They assume that if they make X amount of money at $2 a beer that they will make twice as much money at $4 a beer,.
They are forgetting that while people may willingly pay $1.50 to $2 a beer they are less willing to pay $4 a beer and will do everything they can to find cheaper beer including sneaking beer(or whatever) on board through any means they can. The other thing is , at $4 a beer , even non-sneakers will drink less beer.
It also means people who like drinking may decide to go to resorts where they can get $1-1.75 beers instead of cruising. I myself am going to try cruising once and if the nickel and diming is too much for me will simply go vacation where my money takes me further...like I said Im not a drinker but I dont like being nickeled and dimed without any choice.
If noone snuck beer on board most would simply drink less, so blaming sneakers for higher cruise prices is logically flawed.
If Carnival charged $2 a beer and similar for other drinks most people wouldnt bother sneaking alcohol on board.
4-4.50 a beer is steep. thats pricing in clubs. You can not keep a buzz for 7 days for that kind pricing. If thats what they want to charge then I will do what I have to do to keep my liver and kidneys in shape...lol From what I have seen, cruise prices have been looking real good lately and no one here can say that prices are going up. They are the same. The other day someone asked me if i wanted to go for a 4 day for $274 with taxes and port charges with ocean view in november. I saw the paperwork myself. Give me 2 cases of beer, it would be the best vacation of my life...lol
Anyone else would like some cheese with their wine???lol
>>If noone snuck beer on board most would simply drink less, so blaming sneakers for higher cruise prices is logically flawed.<<
>> From what I have seen, cruise prices have been looking real good lately and no one here can say that prices are going up.<<
Guys, stay with me here. No one said that cruise prices were going up; I'm saying that's the *logical end* to your faulty argument that sneaking booze on board or doubling/tripling/whatevering up on soda cards doesn't cost anyone but the cruise line.
Choosing to drink less (while not smuggling) or to skip cruising in favor of another vacation? No problem. That's the ethical response to deciding that onboard booze and soda prices are too high. Cruise lines take the chance of people choosing not to drink or cruise when they price their beverages as high as they do. Tha'ts not the same as trying to justify cheating.
Zoomer1, you are cracking me up with your ongoing "last posts."
After all this, what a cute question? Water is more precious than soda. I don't think you can use your soda card for that!! P.S. On a brief perusal of the subject, I tend to agree with Zoomer and Steve Voss. (Maybe soon, there will be a water card). It will probably cost a $100 for a 7 day cruise. I suppose they would have to remove the "common water" from the free "fruit punch, lemonade, iced tea" area. Too much temptation that you might drink that water. Personally, I think the soda card is a waste of money (unless you really do drink ALOT OF SODA). The thought of paying $30 for pop on a 7 day cruise really hurts when you consider pop/soda is so expendable in all of your fast food and sit down restaurants (for the most part) that refills are free. I recently returned from a 7 day cruise. My sister-in-law, who to my knowledge, really isn't that much of a soft drink drinker, bought the card (after initially saying she wasn't going to). I think she should have gone with her first instinct. I figure she still paid about $3.00 per glass.
I have to confess something .....I feel so horrible about it ........This one time on my honeymoon .....I drank some of a soda that my husband had purchased on his card....gosh I am so glad I finally found a forum in which I could confess this in ...I have been carrying this guilt around for almost a year ...........<smiles>Hope everyone has a great cruise
I make a point of not drinking alcohol that I smuggled onboard when the ship is in port. As soon as it gets into international waters, I am not governverned by US laws so I feel free to drink all the smuggled booze I want.
And this crap about morals and honesty, I guess no-one here has rolled through a stop sign without stopping completely.
Lynnie - no TAB. Or at least I *heard* someone order a TAB and they were told they didn't serve TAB on board. Sorry.
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I have more of an complaint rather then an answer.
While I was on the Triumph, I saw alot of 20-30 year olds with soda cards at the bar. There are two different prices for an adult card, and a children's card. Many of those people were not travelling with any children, however, they had children's soda cards. The bar tenders did not care that they were children's cards, they just cared that they had the cards.
Also, my sister, my little 5 year old cousin and I all were travelling with our parents who bought us childrens soda cards. We would go up to the bar, and wait and wait, when many adults were getting served infront of us, because they were "paying customers" buying 10-20 drinks over and over again. They shouldn't make kids as young as two go up to the bar, and ask for soda, its not right. They should have a seperate station just for soda.
It's true that sometimes you'll have to wait for service with your soda card (adults, as well as kids). My kids learned to get their sodas at a less busy bar, usually inside, never at the pool bar. (PS........they are a lot older than 2, however....)
Hey, did you all ever consider giving your bones a break from all that phosphorus that is in soda? Dark soda, cola-based soda has an enormous amount of phosporous. Phosphorus causes calcium to pretty much leach out of your bones.
Onboard is free tea, orange juice, apple juice, punch, lemonade, milk, chocolate milk (my kids loved this), hot coffee, hot teas, hot chocolate, and water. The ship's water tastes great! With all those great tasting beverages, encourage your kids to drink those. What do you think?