Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > Cruise Lines (Mainstream) > Carnival Cruise Lines
Register Forgot Password?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 10:38 AM
MOM MOM is offline
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 235
Default I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!!!

I just read the two most horrific reviews about the victory, and that is the one we are going on this summer with family.

one ofthese reviews is only from a cruise just two months ago and theother from the fall.

i cannot believe some of the stuff i read. I am so upset. Let me just list a few of things they said. we have a balcony and all the balconies had a smokey smell, sewage smell in all the bathrooms onthe ship, food so bad on the buffets it was like cafeteria food,( if you can even get to the food, lines were so long).chinese options for food never open the whole week, deli counter one little window with one person making sandwiches for 2,700 people, forget getting a chair on deck, impossible, r rated entertainment with all kindss of kids on board,(do i go on) , and on and on.

I know some people can never be made happy but these reviews were heartbreaking for me. we are all so looking forward to this trip.

the stories in the dining room are worse. all entrees miniscule, overcooked, fatty, 10 people crowded at little table next to stairway and crowded, soup spilled all over my shoulder and no i am sorry from waiter. all crew rude. one person ordered a mudslide and waiter brought with not li;quor in it and until the passengersaid to her this has not liquor in it, the waiter replied oh yeah we ran out of whatever that liquor is.

anything on the lido deck for food forget it, it was all bad. the barbecue, bad, the chinese bad, the sandwiches bad, and do not go in the pools because they are saltwater, and do not bother because the experience is not worth it.

I am sick, sick, sick.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 10:52 AM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,374
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Mom, While there are probably many if not most of that is true you can be assured that it is stated in the most unfavorable light. These folks no doubt feel this way and from their standpoint are tell it just like it is but, understand there are thousands of others on that same ship, same time, same everything that had a wonderful time and many will probably tell you it was the best vacation they have ever had in their life. You will also have some other people that feel the same as the reviewer. This happens on every ship on every line. One person says it was definately one way and another sees it 180 degrees differant and you wonder how they could be on the same ship. Those that complain tend to be the very unhappy people who are a very small number usually while those that are happy or very happy tend to just sit back and enjoy it and you never hear a word from them. It's just the nature of the beast. Go and enjoy and don't look for the bad and you probably will not even notice. If you go looking for problems you will probably find them and on some people it becomes an obssession. If you worry over something small then suddenly every little small thing becomes something huge and your vacation is ruined. Relax, you will be fine.
Jim

__________________
24 cruises and counting!
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 10:58 AM
Shipbound
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

I sailed on the Victory 3/13/2005 and had a great time although I will never sail during March too many children and teens. But the ship was
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 12:06 PM
Anne Campbell's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,131
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Mom....some words of advice: LIGHTEN UP!!!!

Take everything you read with a grain of salt.

__________________
Anne Campbell
Editor-in-Chief
www.shipcriticblog.com/
www.cruisingfromnewyork.com/
Cruise news, bargains, tips and commentary.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 12:26 PM
Jocko the Cruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 353
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Don't believe everything you read. I've never had any sorts of these problems on any Carnival cruise I've taken. There are a few people out there who love to complain, it's what they live for. The food quality on my most recent cruise on the Valor was outstanding; form deli sandwiches to buffet, to dinner. And there was never horrendous lines, despite it being the week before Easter and the ship was packed!

__________________
Carnival Imagination7-15-95
Carnival Sensation 3-3-96
Carnival Ecstasy 8-26-96
Carnival Destiny 3-9-97
Carnival Sensation 3-14-98
Carnival Imagination 3-13-99
Carnival Spirit 3-8-03
Carnival Valor 3-20-05
Carnival Fantasy 9-1-05
Carnival Liberty 1-7-06
Carnival Legend 8-16-06
Carnival Miracle 5-16-09
Carnival Splendor 5-17-13

Carnival Sunshine
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 12:27 PM
TC(Top-Cat)'s Avatar
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 429
Send a message via Yahoo to TC(Top-Cat)
Default Re: Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about vict

mom,

I am leaving on the Victory in less thatn three weeks. This is my 4th Carnival Cruise.

I know the review you read. I am not worried. I have read many more reviews that were positive. Each opinion is only the review of that poster. Go with an open eye and plan to have a great time. That attitude alone will affect your opinion.

Remeber that what others perceive as bad, or inappropriate, may not seem that way to you. There is lots to do and a lot of different choices on each cruise. Each of us must choose what is appropriate for our family.

I read many times that the food on Victory is compared to that of the Conquest. I thought the food on Conquest was fabulous and I can't wait.

Also, look at the cruise history of the poster. If one have traveled many different lines, there are more extravigant lines that might offer more supreme service. Make sure that they are comparing Carnival to Carnival and not the QM2 so to speak. I think the Victory is 3 1/2 stars. Ships are classified up to I think 5 stars. I keep that in mind when I look at my expectations.

Even so, I think your going to have a great cruise. When you get back, write your own review.

19 days to go, and I can hardly wait!

__________________
TC (TopCat)

On Glory - 05-06-06


Sensation,Jubilee ,Maj.of the Seas,Conquest, Victory.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 12:37 PM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 204
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

I posted a repy on Mom's other thread on the same point. I have reconsidered my response. I think you should cancel your trip, because you are going to find any reason at all to be miserable.

Cancel now, and go to Disneyworld instead.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 12:56 PM
Senior Member
Yeoman
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 619
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Mom,
Don't worry ! Go with a open mind and a good attitude, and you'll be just fine. Board with all intensions of having a great cruise, and a wonderful time. A good attitude is half the battle ! If you do have a problem with your room, calmly, have it taken care of. Everything we have asked for on a cruise, Carnival has taken care of with a smile.No worries there mate.

If you listened to all the negative news everybody had to say, it would be hard to leave the house every morning. You would be scared you would die in a traffic accident or a airplane crash, train wreck, and ect.
If worse turns to worst, and you can't seem to shake your fears, change the names on the doc's and send them to me ! The wife and I will go for you ! !

Wishing you a sunny skies and smooth sailing.

No worries mate;
david
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 01:16 PM
Senior Member
Cruise Maniac
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 133
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

mom, I was on the Victory the first week of Feb. 2005 and we had a great time. We had a balcony on the Panorama Deck. There were a few occasions when you could smell cigarette smoke, but it did not last long. And yes I did notice a sewage smell near the main pool on the lido Deck. If you wait until 10am to get a chair on sea days, you will be out of luck, it does get crowded.
Never waited more than 10 minutes in line at the buffet. The deli was great, I had a Ruben on 3 or 4 occasions.
We found open chairs on the Sky and Sun deck which were away from the crowded Lido deck. The staff were great, all that we met were very friendly. The meals were very good in the main dining rooms. Our waiters name was Werner and he was just wonderful. Just relax everything will be fine.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 01:22 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: My GPS says 12 ft. above 6 ft. under!
Posts: 7,267
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

You will always find some people on a cruise who didn't like it. Like Jim said, it's the nature of the beast. When you have 2000 people on board it is likely some of them will not have a good time and these are the ones who are most vocal about it and write reviews.

A few years ago we took BIL/SIL on the Sovereign of the Seas which had only a 2 star rating. It was their first cruise and they were concerned about the rating and reviews. A couple of days into the cruise the were astonished ANYBODY could give the ship only a 2 star rating. They were so surprised there were people who would actually write a bad review about this wonderful trip they were having and said they would never again consider anything they read.

Have a great trip.

Regards,
Thomas
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 02:52 PM
cookie
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

I just read your reaction to some horrible reveiws of the Victory. My husband and I went on on this ship last August and loved every minute of it. The dinner servings were not miniscule and if you are hungry you can order triple servings of anything on the menu, I can't remember one fatty entree, if anything I can't remember the last time I ate healthier. At peak hours around the pool go to the upper decks , they are quieter and more relaxing anyway and there are never problems finding chairs. Buffet lines moved along fine for me, food was good not excellent but certainly not cafeteria food. As for room size, we stayed on lower level inside cabin. Carnival cabins are known to be larger than any other ship's cabins. I don't know about the balcony rooms, but why don't you consider changing to an outside cabin instead of balcony if your concerned about room size and smoky smell. My husband and I have been on NCL cruises prior to Carnival and I liked Carnival as much if not more than NCL because housekeeping , wait staff and entertainment staff were freindly and helpful in every way. Do not let sour pusses spoil your vacation plans. Stick with Carnival Victory.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 03:11 PM
venice
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

for every bad review you'll find a great review which means it's somewhere in the middle based upon factors both in the ship's control (service) to those out of their control (weather, other pain in the behind passengers)..

Stay positive, there was a reason why you choose the ship, go on your cruise have a great time and just pray for great weather...everything else you can deal with or just ignore

fyi, looking forward to reading YOUR review because I am going on the Victory in October
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 04:38 PM
JUGL11
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

My wife has asthma (mild) & we were unable to sit out on our balcony on the Victory most times because of smokers next door. The partition blocks sight only. It doesn't go top-to-bottom, so it doesn't block sound or smoke. The only response I got from Carnival was a small tray of cookies sent to my cabin. Just what I needed - more food on a cruise.

Which is just 1 more reason why I say......"Never again on Carnival!"
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 05:22 PM
jcrandle
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about vict

JUGL11, please let us know which cruise line you will be sailing next. Obviously it is one that prohibits smoking on balconies. Since I'm unaware of one that does, and I am a non-smoker, I'd love to find out more about this new cruise line.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 06:09 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 7,374
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

JUGL11, Sorry that you had this experance but that is also possible to have on any other ship that has balconies on any other line. What would you have Carnival do, tell the other folks that they are not allowed to smoke? You would then have those people screaming at the top of thier smoke-filled lings how unfairly they were treated but CARNIVAL directly because they were force from enjoying themselves. Your beef is with the passenger next door and not the cruiseline. Maybe if you popped your head over and let them know that you had problems breathing they might have been kind enough to not smoke whenever you were out there.
Jim

__________________
24 cruises and counting!
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 06:47 PM
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,355
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

JUGL11,

I'm sorry you didn't enjoy your balcony on your cruise, but it seems like the problem was with your fellow passengers rather that Carnival itself so why not give Carnival at least one more chance before you swear them off completely? Maybe next time you'll get lucky and have non-smoking neighbors or if there are still cabins available on the ship, perhaps you could ask to be moved. Don't let one unfortunate incident (that wasn't Carnival's fault) keep you from enjoying a great cruise line.

Gail
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 07:56 PM
JeanS's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: So. California
Posts: 1,494
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

I wouldn't worry about your upcoming cruise at all. I haven't been on the Victory, but have been on numerous Carnival cruises, and if the Victory is as horrible as your reviewer said it was, Carnival wouldn't be one of the most popular cruiselines!

I'm sure you'll have a great time, unless you are detemined not to......

Enjoy!

__________________

8/92 Mex. Riv. Commodore
9/98, 9/00, 9/02 & 7/04 Caribbean - Paradise
10/00, 08/05 Pac. Wtrs. Holiday, Monarch
04/06 Hawaii - Celebrity Summit
09/07 Alaska - Celebrity Summit
07/09 Western Caribbean RCCL Liberty of the Seas
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 08:53 PM
TC(Top-Cat)'s Avatar
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 429
Send a message via Yahoo to TC(Top-Cat)
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

I just read an awesome review from 04-04-05 on the other board for the Victory last week.

I am pumped and ready to go. 19 days and counting to Victory.

__________________
TC (TopCat)

On Glory - 05-06-06


Sensation,Jubilee ,Maj.of the Seas,Conquest, Victory.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 09:26 PM
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Windsor Ontario Canada
Posts: 265
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Relax Mom.If you want to have a good time ,you will! I think that if a person can find NOTHING good to say about a cruise it is because they had a small problem in one area that was not resolved to their satisfaction and therefor find it necessary to downgrade the whole experience out of spite. They may think that by being unhappy when everyone else is having fun that they are somehow more discriminating than others.

__________________
Aegean I Sept /01 Athens
Carnival Valor Jan /05 Miami
Carnival Valor Jan/06 Miami
Carnival Pride Jan/07 Long Beach
Splendour of the Seas Sept/09 Venice
Adventure of the Seas Jan/11 San Juan
Adventure of the Seas Feb/12 San Juan
Navigator of the Seas Jan/13 N'arlins

<

Read and post cruise reviewsRead and post cruise reviews
Read and post cruise reviews
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2005, 11:48 PM
CherylR
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

I just can't believe what I am reading sometimes. It really amazes me. People blow a couple bad things way out of proportion and say they whole thing was terrible. We have been on Carnival many times and have always had the best vacation of our lives, and only 17 more days to go before we sail on the Valor May 1! We have been on the Victory twice, and I love the line the other guy wrote about the Chinese being closed....who cares? I didn't come on the ship to eat chinese take out all week. As for the deck chairs...we know the drill and get out early and get a prime spot if we want to be near the pool. We don't wait until 11am to try and find a chair, and even then there are plenty available up top. As for the r-rated entertainment, they have a comedian who performs an x-rated show at like midnight that is adults only. I have never heard any r-rated performers during early shows. As for their table at dinner, if they didn't like being next to the stairs they should've asked to be moved. Once we had a table near the door to the galley but we were next to a nice window and it did not "ruin" our whole cruise. As for the food, I have never had anything but delicious, fresh food on all their ships. The breakfast options are standard but very good and we usually have room service for coffee and danish, then head out to the buffet to have 2 or 3 more breakfasts. For lunch, how many more options can they possibly provide?..between pizza,grilled burgers,great hot dogs, grilled chicken breasts, and minute steaks at the grill area, to the "chinese", deli for fabulous sandwiches, (their grilled ruben, corned beef and tuna and turkey is delicious!) and buffet which always offers roast turkey, roast beef, roast pork, mexican dishes, pasta salads,fresh fuit, potatoes,pasta, vegetables, fresh fish, delicious fish fingers, and the dessert station with about 5 choices, what else could you want? And for dinner, everything I have gotten has been excellent and the portions very big. You don't have to order just one of something..you can have as many as you want. I usually get the shrimp cocktail, one of their soups, fresh fruit, salad, and many of their other specialty appetizers, and dinner they have filet mignon, roast turkey dinner, seafood pasta, lobster, strip steak, duck al'orange, and some of the best desserts I have ever had. Who ever wrote that review....I wish ...well I don't want to say anymore. Did they even see the grand gala buffet? I wouldn't call that cafeteria food. Believe me you will have a great time, and the food is great.
Reply With Quote
  #21 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 10:06 AM
KarenConley
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

There is a good review of the Victory on the other cruise site--thought you might like to read it. If you don't know what the address is email and I will send it to you. Sounds like they have a wonderful time and food was great.
Karen
Reply With Quote
  #22 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 10:17 AM
Rosetattoo111
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Hi JUGL11, you just gave me a great idea how to get a plate of free cookies, now I don't have to worry about actually going to the Lido Deck for a snack late at night, I can just complain about the people in the next stateroom blowing second hand smoke my way via the balcony, thanks for the tip.
Reply With Quote
  #23 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 01:13 PM
CherylR
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Familycruiser,
are you saying you don't eat alot on the cruise and get your money's worth??? If we wake up at 6am and have some coffee and A danish, get ready and in about an hour have a scoop of scrambled eggs, a piece of toast and a little fruit, and maybe after having some more coffee and relaxing out on deck around 9:30 and feel like having some potatoes,a piece of bacon and a little more eggs. I see people eating non stop every day with their plates mounded with a mountain of food and making 10 trips up to the buffets. Never mind my measly little 2 scoops of eggs,potatoes, bacon and a danish. And no we don't gain weight...we keep busy and active all day swimming, walking, going on shore excursions, and taking advantage of the gym. You can't say anything in here anymore...one comment about a couple plates of food and I get slammed.!! Geez!
Reply With Quote
  #24 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 01:26 PM
Jocko the Cruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 353
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Not only teenage athletes, I pride myself on physical conditioning and I ate like a champ my last cruise. I'm also 31.

__________________
Carnival Imagination7-15-95
Carnival Sensation 3-3-96
Carnival Ecstasy 8-26-96
Carnival Destiny 3-9-97
Carnival Sensation 3-14-98
Carnival Imagination 3-13-99
Carnival Spirit 3-8-03
Carnival Valor 3-20-05
Carnival Fantasy 9-1-05
Carnival Liberty 1-7-06
Carnival Legend 8-16-06
Carnival Miracle 5-16-09
Carnival Splendor 5-17-13

Carnival Sunshine
Reply With Quote
  #25 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 01:26 PM
Erin mcflygirl
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

I agree with Ann Campbell.... I was on the Victory 3/13/2005 and it wasnt that bad. My only complaint was that there was a sewage smell on the boat, and yes it was nasty, but i made the most of it because it was "vacation." I went with the mindset that not everything can go perfectly. Something is going to go wrong. I had more problems with our air line then the crusise line. The food is average, its not what you'll find on the Holland America, but you have to remember carnival is and always has been "the party boat."
Reply With Quote
  #26 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 01:33 PM
Jocko the Cruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 353
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

On another note, I think when people say they couldn't find a deck chair this doesn't mean they were trying at 11 am. I was outside for breakfast at 8 am, pretty much all the chairs were saved by then ( which is not supposed to be allowed). And I wasn't going to join in on the practice, while I ate. My point is that even people who were moderately early risers( I know 7:30 isn't the earliest, but on vacation it is) were thwarted. Also on this last trip even the less desirable positions for chairs were taken up early.

__________________
Carnival Imagination7-15-95
Carnival Sensation 3-3-96
Carnival Ecstasy 8-26-96
Carnival Destiny 3-9-97
Carnival Sensation 3-14-98
Carnival Imagination 3-13-99
Carnival Spirit 3-8-03
Carnival Valor 3-20-05
Carnival Fantasy 9-1-05
Carnival Liberty 1-7-06
Carnival Legend 8-16-06
Carnival Miracle 5-16-09
Carnival Splendor 5-17-13

Carnival Sunshine
Reply With Quote
  #27 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 01:45 PM
Jocko the Cruiser's Avatar
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 353
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

Wait for what? I know how to control my weight. I lost 60 lbs when I was an extremely overweight sophmore in high school and I've never looked back.

__________________
Carnival Imagination7-15-95
Carnival Sensation 3-3-96
Carnival Ecstasy 8-26-96
Carnival Destiny 3-9-97
Carnival Sensation 3-14-98
Carnival Imagination 3-13-99
Carnival Spirit 3-8-03
Carnival Valor 3-20-05
Carnival Fantasy 9-1-05
Carnival Liberty 1-7-06
Carnival Legend 8-16-06
Carnival Miracle 5-16-09
Carnival Splendor 5-17-13

Carnival Sunshine
Reply With Quote
  #28 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 04:34 PM
Roys cruising
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about victory!

I am leaving this Sunday on the Victory Eastern Carb. cant wait . Who cares about what other people say its what you make of it. It probaly wont be perfect so what and If it is I got lucky. Enjoy your cruise and see what happens.
Reply With Quote
  #29 (permalink)  
Old April 13th, 2005, 05:10 PM
Paul B's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 2,824
Default Re: Re: I am sick, just read most horrific review about vict

I eat all day long while cruising with two or three desserts every night and have never gained any weight. However, I don't consume any sugary alcoholic drinks on the ship, I don't use the elevators and I walk around the deck three to four miles each day.

I also have not had any bad food on any of my 20 cruises and have loved all of them.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[b]JUST GOT OFF VICTORY! READ MY REVIEW![/b] colombiangirl Carnival Cruise Lines 7 February 28th, 2007 09:09 PM
continue sick about victory MOM Carnival Cruise Lines 17 April 13th, 2005 07:56 AM
question to anyone,regarding sick about victory KP Carnival Cruise Lines 10 April 12th, 2005 06:16 PM
Sick of terrorist executing people..do not read if it up set salem5050 Chit - Chat for Cruisers 13 July 1st, 2004 10:41 AM
Anybody Sick After Victory CTN 6/12 from Norfolk? CruisinWriter Carnival Cruise Lines 3 June 23rd, 2004 09:34 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:11 AM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1