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View Poll Results: Should Carnival require persons under the age of 21 to travel with a parent or legal guardian?
Yes 61 73.49%
No 22 26.51%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31 (permalink)  
Old February 26th, 2007, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehawk
prylwd, some of the ideals that you espouse are, already laws. Such as, when you state to raise the legal age of adulthood to 21 years of age, it already is. It just that some people have found "loopholes" in it just as you are asking for. The age to receive your drivers' license IS 18 years of age, and, once more, people have found "loopholes" to get around it. You see, you do have it both ways and just don't recognize it. I am not lecturing here, just pointing out facts.
I don't know where you live? Texas I guess? But were I live the legal driving age is 16 and one becomes an adult at age 18. Which is why u have to register for the draft/ military as soon you turn 18.
You Can NOT get a drivers license without your parents being present to sign there permission.. Notaries are available in the offices, but a person under 18 can not drive without permission. The legal age to get a license is 18. So legally you need to be 18. the loophole is getting parents to request a younger age. My daughter didnt drive till she was 18, neither will me son. That is my perogative as a parent.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 02:07 AM
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i also hate to say this, but this came from a family memeber who is Colonel in the airforce. He's an airforce lifer. Been in for 26 yrs thus far.

anyway like i said i hate to think of it like this but THEY seem to. He told me that the country and most countries count on the youth to fight. Not because they are expedible or because they are stronger, but because they have a sense of invincibility, they often cant see thier own mortality and feel bullet proof hence they arent as afraid as men with life experiences.

Crazy...but true. Also sad. I hope there is never a draft again for a war.


anyway...lets all stop..this was about a cruise on a ship. Somehow it turned from that to the driving age, the drinking age and the age you can fight in war. Opinions are like butts, everyone has one.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 07:56 AM
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My post to you was with Love. Yours is not so. Let's let it go. This is a fun cruise site, and I don't wat to make it anything but that.

Good Luck to you and happy cruising!!

Luanne
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Old February 26th, 2007, 12:24 PM
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prylwd, you are typical of the entitlement generation.

Your musings only serve to reinforce my feelings about 18 year olds on my cruise.

Out of all the responses you got you pick on ones you can attack.

Grow up.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by rinker250
Hmmmm
72% in favor (as I write this post) of the 21 years rule.

Perhaps prylwd is making a case for this rule?

And terri910, you make one of the best points I've heard in quite a while.
Unfortunately your poll is statistically incorrect. It will show a bias due to the average age/socio-economic status of users of this forum. To get a true result to what you are looking for you would need a sample that is much more random.

Now as to the young vs old debate going on here (because in truth that is what it has become). I understand each mother/father who has posted out here and their concern for their own children. But seeing the rules based on what you wouldn't want your child doing seems a bit....well wrong. It is up to each parent to set those rules and enforce them. It in no way should be up to the cruise line to set boundaries families should be setting. People, including those under 21, are responsible by law for their own actions. And as far as getting drunk and making an @$$ of yourself well that I have seen happen at all ages. As I have said before I can understand wanting people over the age of 21 but to require a person who is 25 or older seems a bit extreme.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 01:12 PM
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Hmmmm...not MY poll.
However it is a poll of CRUISERS and therefore quite relevent.

I agree that 21 is old enough to cruise alone but not old enough to vouch for a group of 18 year olds.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rinker250
Hmmmm...not MY poll.
However it is a poll of CRUISERS and therefore quite relevent.
Unfortunately that is not how statistics work. You have a sample of cruisers who use this forum not of cruisers. Certain things draw people to certain forums which would give you a bias using only cruisers from this forum. They do not represent a fair % of each class/group of people who cruise.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 01:46 PM
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Wow

An argument for arguments sake.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 01:49 PM
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Wow

An argument for arguments sake.
Not arguing, just making sure people reading get the truch behind the results above. Its the engineer in me, perfectionist to a fault.

BTW don't' you know that 75% of all stats are made up on the spot Carla
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Old February 26th, 2007, 01:50 PM
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Well this has turned ugly rather fast.....much like a ship full of drunk "young adults" on spring break. Unfortunately those who have come before and repeatedly caused problems for Carnival and other cruise lines have caused this policy to come about. Im sure Carnival did not make it up to torture you or be unfair to you. Im sure they would love your business but the risk is obviously not worth the money to them.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseypoo5
Quote:
Originally Posted by prylwd
Quote:
Originally Posted by mehawk
prylwd, some of the ideals that you espouse are, already laws. Such as, when you state to raise the legal age of adulthood to 21 years of age, it already is. It just that some people have found "loopholes" in it just as you are asking for. The age to receive your drivers' license IS 18 years of age, and, once more, people have found "loopholes" to get around it. You see, you do have it both ways and just don't recognize it. I am not lecturing here, just pointing out facts.
I don't know where you live? Texas I guess? But were I live the legal driving age is 16 and one becomes an adult at age 18. Which is why u have to register for the draft/ military as soon you turn 18.
You Can NOT get a drivers license without your parents being present to sign there permission.. Notaries are available in the offices, but a person under 18 can not drive without permission. The legal age to get a license is 18. So legally you need to be 18. the loophole is getting parents to request a younger age. My daughter didnt drive till she was 18, neither will me son. That is my perogative as a parent.
Umm well in California u can get a license when u are 16 as long as you have taken the required classes. My dad came and he didn't sign anything.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 03:07 PM
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I do have to agree with the military argument. I think there is something hypocritical about a society that allows 18 year olds to carry a gun and have control over weapons that can cause massive destruction and death, 18 year olds can also vote and be part of deciding who will lead the country, 18 year olds can sign a legally binding contract and take out loans and get credit cards...Yet when it comes to the matter of making a responsible dcecision regarding the use of alcohol they are not responsible enough. I know many people way over 21...way way over 21 who make horrible decisions in all of the above mentioned areas. Ive never seen an 18 year old file bankruptcy...or a 21 year old for that matter.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old February 26th, 2007, 03:07 PM
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I usually try to stay out of these fights(although I like to read them) but I felt I had something to add this time. We just booked a family cruise for this august on the Valor. My whole family have platinum status on Carnival including my kids. We booked using the military discount Carnival so nicely provides. We had to do some fancy bookings to get everyone a cabin because of the age policy. We tried to book a cabin for three for my 22 yo daughter, her 23 yo boyfriend and my son's 18 yo girlfriend. When we thought about the age policy we realized that my son's girlfriend could not be booked with my daughter because there would not be a 25 yo. The funny thing we found out though is the 18 yo girlfriend could be booked with her 18 yo boyfriend (my son) because he is in the Navy. We found out that due to his military status he can book and travel on any Carnival cruise. So there is one answer for you. All it took was 8 months of hard military training and a commitment to give is life for his country to be able to cruise by himself. Now we have to move his girlfriend to the other cabin when we get on the ship. Cindy
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Old February 26th, 2007, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mosel22
I usually try to stay out of these fights(although I like to read them) but I felt I had something to add this time. We just booked a family cruise for this august on the Valor. My whole family have platinum status on Carnival including my kids. We booked using the military discount Carnival so nicely provides. We had to do some fancy bookings to get everyone a cabin because of the age policy. We tried to book a cabin for three for my 22 yo daughter, her 23 yo boyfriend and my son's 18 yo girlfriend. When we thought about the age policy we realized that my son's girlfriend could not be booked with my daughter because there would not be a 25 yo. The funny thing we found out though is the 18 yo girlfriend could be booked with her 18 yo boyfriend (my son) because he is in the Navy. We found out that due to his military status he can book and travel on any Carnival cruise. So there is one answer for you. All it took was 8 months of hard military training and a commitment to give is life for his country to be able to cruise by himself. Now we have to move his girlfriend to the other cabin when we get on the ship. Cindy
Well, what do you know....Carnival thought just the way I do!

to use the argument of: If I'm old enough to serve my country, vote, and be on juries, and get married, then I'm old enough to cruise on my own....then one must have served (or be serving) one's country, have voted, done jury duty, and/or gotten married. Otherwise, it's lip service of what one can do but has not.

That's really interesting, mosel!
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Old February 26th, 2007, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by terri910
to use the argument of: If I'm old enough to serve my country, vote, and be on juries, and get married, then I'm old enough to cruise on my own....then one must have served (or be serving) one's country, have voted, done jury duty, and/or gotten married. Otherwise, it's lip service of what one can do but has not.
Wow it is sad how much animosity there is on this forum for the Y generation. There seem to be so many stereotypes, it really just makes me sad.

My BF HAS voted, HAS served jury duty and was declared 4F for military service due to health problems. So while he has done all that, because he is 20 he will be discriminated against when trying to book. The only reason we were allowed to book was because I met the 25 age requirement.

It just makes my heart break for us to be lumped in with the stereotypes of the few. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease and the press coverage. And people form stereotypes around those people who are causing the trouble/getting the press coverage. Why not make a rule to remove the trouble makers instead of banning the innocent?
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Old February 26th, 2007, 05:20 PM
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Just think, 5 more years and he can rent a car!!
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Old February 26th, 2007, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinker250
Hmmmm...not MY poll.
However it is a poll of CRUISERS and therefore quite relevent.

I agree that 21 is old enough to cruise alone but not old enough to vouch for a group of 18 year olds.
Well the point is that no one should have to vouch for a group of 18yr olds. They are 18 and considered an adult.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adias.angel
Quote:
Originally Posted by terri910
to use the argument of: If I'm old enough to serve my country, vote, and be on juries, and get married, then I'm old enough to cruise on my own....then one must have served (or be serving) one's country, have voted, done jury duty, and/or gotten married. Otherwise, it's lip service of what one can do but has not.
Wow it is sad how much animosity there is on this forum for the Y generation. There seem to be so many stereotypes, it really just makes me sad.

My BF HAS voted, HAS served jury duty and was declared 4F for military service due to health problems. So while he has done all that, because he is 20 he will be discriminated against when trying to book. The only reason we were allowed to book was because I met the 25 age requirement.

It just makes my heart break for us to be lumped in with the stereotypes of the few. Unfortunately the squeaky wheel gets the grease and the press coverage. And people form stereotypes around those people who are causing the trouble/getting the press coverage. Why not make a rule to remove the trouble makers instead of banning the innocent?
It has always been so, adias.angel. You may be the exception to the rule, but business have to make decisions based on the odds. And the odds are against you, my friend. Sad as that seems. But in reality, with my exemption proposal, you would have no problem. All your B/F would have to do would be to document his voting, jury duty, and declaration of 4F status by the Military (without a draft, it must be that your B/F tried to serve). Sounds as if he does more than pay lip service, but as I said, businesses have to make policy based on generalities. And generally....most people can see the problems associated with having a 21-year-old being responsible for a 20 year-old. Definitely cruise ships can.

I wonder if the cruise line just arbitrarily came up with this policy at the line's inception, or if they learned the hard way.....would be interested to find out, don't you think?

Edited to add: I have no animosity toward the "Y" Generation (I've never understood that. What does it stand for?) or any other generation. I have two sons of my own, and I'm rather fond of them and their friends. And they're pretty darn responsible themselves. But I'd be telling them the same thing I'm posting here. If they can't meet the cruise line's criteria I'd sympathize with them, but tell them they won't be too young forever. (It goes way quicker than you think!)
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Old February 26th, 2007, 06:16 PM
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This thread reminds me of something a foreman told me when my son went to work for us at age 18;

"I sure am glad you hired him while he still knows everything"

This thread is now repeating itself and the policy is not going to change so I'm gonna move along.
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Old February 26th, 2007, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rinker250
This thread reminds me of something a foreman told me when my son went to work for us at age 18;

"I sure am glad you hired him while he still knows everything"
Now that's funny, right there!

Quote:
This thread is now repeating itself and the policy is not going to change so I'm gonna move along.
Good advice! I believe I'll join you....
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Old February 27th, 2007, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by terri910
All your B/F would have to do would be to document his voting, jury duty, and declaration of 4F status by the Military (without a draft, it must be that your B/F tried to serve).
Yes he tried to enlist in the air force after high school, aced the ASVAB test but was 4F after his physical.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terri910
"Y" Generation (I've never understood that. What does it stand for?)
The X generation end with those born in 1979, so the Y generation are those born in 1980 or after. We are considered the techie generation.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prylwd
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinker250
Hmmmm...not MY poll.
However it is a poll of CRUISERS and therefore quite relevent.

I agree that 21 is old enough to cruise alone but not old enough to vouch for a group of 18 year olds.
Well the point is that no one should have to vouch for a group of 18yr olds. They are 18 and considered an adult.
I do not consider an 18 yr old an "adult". Sure legally, if you commit a crime, your an adult (tho this can be true for those over 16). You can vote. You can join the army..

I still consider an 18 yr old a teenager. just my opinion, no one has to agree with me. 22-25 is a different story...i think most in this age range are probably fine to travel..just questioning the fact that a 22 yr old shouldnt take his 18 yr old gf on a cruise. lots of liability.

PY you make a lot of passionate arguments, but frankly all your past posts related to how much alcohol you could possibly consume, and how utterly wasted you expect to be the entire trip, just amplifies my attitude to all this.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terri910
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinker250
This thread reminds me of something a foreman told me when my son went to work for us at age 18;

"I sure am glad you hired him while he still knows everything"
Now that's funny, right there!

Quote:
This thread is now repeating itself and the policy is not going to change so I'm gonna move along.
Good advice! I believe I'll join you....
, maybe i'll just take a stoll out on deck with ya'll
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseypoo5
Quote:
Originally Posted by prylwd
Quote:
Originally Posted by rinker250
Hmmmm...not MY poll.
However it is a poll of CRUISERS and therefore quite relevent.

I agree that 21 is old enough to cruise alone but not old enough to vouch for a group of 18 year olds.
Well the point is that no one should have to vouch for a group of 18yr olds. They are 18 and considered an adult.
I do not consider an 18 yr old an "adult". Sure legally, if you commit a crime, your an adult (tho this can be true for those over 16). You can vote. You can join the army..

I still consider an 18 yr old a teenager. just my opinion, no one has to agree with me. 22-25 is a different story...i think most in this age range are probably fine to travel..just questioning the fact that a 22 yr old shouldnt take his 18 yr old gf on a cruise. lots of liability.

PY you make a lot of passionate arguments, but frankly all your past posts related to how much alcohol you could possibly consume, and how utterly wasted you expect to be the entire trip, just amplifies my attitude to all this.
Well there in lies the problem. Although you don't consider 18 to be an adult the government and federal law DOES. As we all know the government runs things therefore if they consider 18 to be an adult then it is. Should an adult have to have an older adult "vouch" for them? I think not.


PS- You are very quick to judge my actions & personality based on the fact that I drink a lot. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so. Although I do drink excessively, I also work full time and go to school full time. I work 6 days a week and go to night class 4 days a week, basically I handle my ***edited by moderator***. End of story.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:53 PM
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Do you kiss your mom with that mouth?

**edited by moderator**
Thank you for continuing to make my point, prylwd.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
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Thank you for continueing to make my point.
One again the squeaky wheel getting the wheel and the press coverage. And the innocents paying the penalty.
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:58 PM
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Adias, You are very correct.

Let's just ban prylwd!
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Old February 27th, 2007, 04:59 PM
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Adias, You are very correct.

Let's just ban prylwd!
WHOO HOOO!! I second that motion. I have no problem representing the Y generation on this thread
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Old February 27th, 2007, 05:28 PM
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PS- You are very quick to judge my actions & personality based on the fact that I drink a lot. Does that make me a bad person? I don't think so. Although I do drink excessively........
WOW
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Old February 27th, 2007, 05:49 PM
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Now calm down a bit.
As for the precedent the OP believes doesn't exist, re: Hughes & Fickett v. Carnival Cruise Line, you might want to check out this article and see if it helps you in your research. It refers to the lawsuit Carnival's clerk spoke of and was quite simple to find using Google.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2...86-7223646_ITM

I have never known many cruiselines to turn down money from potential cruisers unless there was a business case to be made for doing so. I can tell you that the rowdiest cruise I have ever been on was last spring break and we had a ship load of students from Cornell University on board and some were out of control (this was not even on Carnival btw). However, there were also some good kids in the bunch too and even at its worst, it wasn't that bad. However I can say given the choice, I would rather cruise with a bunch of young people under age 10 than a bunch of young people between the ages of 18-22.
Bear in mind that is my personal preference and I am not saying that all people in the 18-22 age bracket are out of control, inconsiderate binge drinking party animals. I know one or two 70 year olds that fit that descripton, but not too many. Its all about personal maturity, but obviously Carnival must have had it's share of problems with unsupervised young people or they would never be turning away this business.
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