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Old July 2nd, 2007, 02:22 PM
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Default MAJOR Problem on a Carnival Cruise

I was wondering if anyone could help me regarding jurisdiction/correct charges in this matter.

My nephew (age 19) was on a carnival cruise in JMay and met a girl, age 17 or 16 (not 100% sure) and he ended up hanging out with her almost the entire cruise. Well, he had some relations with her including kissing and she gave him oral sex but they didn't have full intercourse. The girls father found out and was furious and wants to charge my nephew for rape or some sort of assault because he's 19 and the man's daughter is 17 or 16. However, I heard somewhere that Carnival is officially based out of another country so the laws apply to that country? Regardless, can anyone tell me what may become of this or even if the father is correct in charges regarding the age difference between my nephew and his daughter?

Thank You for any help.

-Maria
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 02:30 PM
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My advice is do not rely on the sea lawyers on a public board. Get yourself legal counsel and take it from there.
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 02:45 PM
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Statutory rape is a serious charge, get a lawyer now! If cost is a problem and your nephew is in school, most universities have lawyers that do free advice for the students.

I do know that age of consent in the US is 17. As long as he is under 20 and she is 17 then I believe (but not 100% sure) that he can not be charged under statutory rape. Now if she wanted to press charges then thats a different story and age has nothing to do with it.

I will keep my fingers crossed for him. Please let us know what you find out. *hug* Carla
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adias.angel
I do know that age of consent in the US is 17. As long as he is under 20 and she is 17 then I believe (but not 100% sure) that he can not be charged under statutory rape.
The age of consent in the US varies from state-to-state. It is also not same for a male and female in some states.

For US citizents outside the US the age is 18.

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR Problem on a Carnival Cruise

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Originally Posted by ipodz
I was wondering if anyone could help me regarding jurisdiction/correct charges in this matter.

My nephew (age 19) was on a carnival cruise in JMay and met a girl, age 17 or 16 (not 100% sure) and he ended up hanging out with her almost the entire cruise. Well, he had some relations with her including kissing and she gave him oral "***" but they didn't have full intercourse. The girls father found out and was furious and wants to charge my nephew for rape or some sort of assault because he's 19 and the man's daughter is 17 or 16. However, I heard somewhere that Carnival is officially based out of another country so the laws apply to that country? Regardless, can anyone tell me what may become of this or even if the father is correct in charges regarding the age difference between my nephew and his daughter?

Thank You for any help.

-Maria
You really think we should feel sorry for a 19 year old playing with a 16 year old? There are laws for a reason.


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Old July 2nd, 2007, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR Problem on a Carnival Cruise

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Originally Posted by linuxpm
You really think we should feel sorry for a 19 year old playing with a 16 year old? There are laws for a reason. Brian
Don't go condemning the guy yet. Remember it takes 2 to tango and I am sure they both had a part in it. Its not if we should feel sorry for him but how he can make sure the law is fair to both parties. That is the help she is asking for.

Unfortunately, I remember when I was in high school (graduated 9 years ago) that almost every girl there was sexually active by that age. It is sad but true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Shark
The age of consent in the US varies from state-to-state. It is also not same for a male and female in some states.

For US citizents outside the US the age is 18.

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm
Thanks I knew that here it is 17 but I wasn't sure about outside of the US.
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 05:30 PM
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...How did the Dad find out??
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 06:02 PM
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This does bring up a good point, for any of us could be the victim of crime on a ship. What laws DO apply? For example, if someone is caught stealing, or two guys get into a fight - hence, battery charges. Obviously it would depend on where the ship is at the time - docked, in international waters, or in a certain country's waters.

On the flip side, it certainly brings up a good point no matter WHAT your age - leave the opposite sex alone on the ship! It's also his word against hers, after all, the evidence has long been disappeared (unless she pulled a Monica Lewinski and kept the clothing).
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle1959
This does bring up a good point, for any of us could be the victim of crime on a ship. What laws DO apply? For example, if someone is caught stealing, or two guys get into a fight - hence, battery charges. Obviously it would depend on where the ship is at the time - docked, in international waters, or in a certain country's waters.

On the flip side, it certainly brings up a good point no matter WHAT your age - leave the opposite "***" alone on the ship! It's also his word against hers, after all, the evidence has long been disappeared (unless she pulled a Monica Lewinski and kept the clothing).
Crimes on the major cruise lines that serve US ports are reported to the FBI and local authorities in foreign countries and their waters by the cruise lines. Regardless of where the alleged crime occurs, if it involves US citizens, then US law applies and the FBI has jurisdiction according to US law.

There are US federal maritime laws on the books that cover crime at sea, and the father can report the alleged crime to the FBI and they would be the AHJ (AUthority having jurisdiction). Even though the major cruise lines are flagged and based in foreign countries, if they service US ports and carry US passengers, they must report alleged crimes at sea to the FBI.
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 06:44 PM
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Default Re: MAJOR Problem on a Carnival Cruise

[/quote]You really think we should feel sorry for a 19 year old playing with a 16 year old? There are laws for a reason.


Brian[/quote]

The age of consent in Michigan is 16. It differs from state to state.
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 06:46 PM
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As I posted above ... For US citizents outside the US the age is 18.
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Old July 2nd, 2007, 08:06 PM
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When I first read this, I laughed, because I thought this was the work of a "Troll" (Troll is a person who only posts once, on a topic that will insist talk, and lots of times, anger)

I came back to read what others had advised and now I wonder if it is something more.

I happen to have a 19 year old, and when he read it, he said, "Mom, that was written by a teen" (I guess they say things different than what we do )

Since I don't know for sure what the story is, please let me give you some advice, which is what you asked for anyway.

If this truly is your relative, then he needs a lawyer first, and then he needs someone to sit down with him, and explain that no matter what you do with a girl, or a boy, you need to be sure you know their age. Then someone needs to sit him down and get him to say his prayers that he did not wind up in the ocean, after the father found out. Also explain that just because an underage child says yes, does not mean that by law it is right.

Now if this is a couple of teens who are about to go on a cruise, with their parents, then listen up.

If you really wanted to know what would happen, you would have googled the info. Without knowing which ports you will be going to, I will pick out a few for you. If you are caught, and are put off the ship, because the Carnival company doesn't want to have to deal with it, you will be turned over to police that do not take kindly to a grown man playing with a little girl. You might see the light of day, then again, you might not. Tell mom and dad to bring lots of money. They will need it. Bribing the police not to torture you is expensive. Are you getting the idea yet?

Regardless of what the situation is, you will be in my prayers.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo
I happen to have a 19 year old, and when he read it, he said, "Mom, that was written by a teen" (I guess they say things different than what we do )
I thought the same thing when I read the post. That why I posted what I could to help.

If that boy is convicted it will be a felony on his record and no decent school or job will ever look at him. Kids make mistakes. And while I belive punishment is necessary, I don't think ruining his whole life is the kind of punishment that is needed.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 10:31 AM
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I just worry that it is kids who have yet to cruise, and wondering how much they can get away with.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo
I just worry that it is kids who have yet to cruise, and wondering how much they can get away with.
No from the message I believe that is did happen. I knew a BF & GF in pretty close to the exact same circumstances when I was in high school. There was panic in that post, the same panic I saw on the face of the BF I knew.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 11:19 AM
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Default Lots of lawyers on here

I think most of the advice on here is from people who watch too much CSI and police shows and think they know something about the law from doing so. Probably the same folks that think everyone who gets arrested has to be read their rights. Wrong,but hey, that's what happens on tv, right?

The post about the age of consent being 17 in the US is fascinating..Where did you get that idea? It might be in some states..But in others it's 14, 15, 16 & 18. Also, if this young man is convicted, it's not necessarily a felony...Again, depends on the state.

The lady posing the question, her family or whoever really need to speak to attorney who specializes in international law. I've been in law enforcement many years and most of the advice your getting on here is wrong and a little scary.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
I think most of the advice on here is from people who watch too much CSI and police shows and think they know something about the law from doing so. Probably the same folks that think everyone who gets arrested has to be read their rights. Wrong,but hey, that's what happens on tv, right?
Everyone who is "arrested" is "supposed" to be read their rights. Not only that, but they are asked to sign the miranda card to acknowledge that their rights were read to them. A person can be "questioned" and/or "detained" for a limited amount of time. But, the word "Arrest" and "Miranda" go hand in hand in this country. (Except if you suspected of being a terrorist or illegal alien in which case, you just go missing. )

Now there may be some small town Dukes of Hazzard sheriffs that think they can sidestep the Miranda Law but, if challenged in court, the police would have to lie and stay the Miranda was read.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
I think most of the advice on here is from people who watch too much CSI and police shows and think they know something about the law from doing so. Probably the same folks that think everyone who gets arrested has to be read their rights. Wrong,but hey, that's what happens on tv, right?

The post about the age of consent being 17 in the US is fascinating..Where did you get that idea? It might be in some states..But in others it's 14, 15, 16 & 18. Also, if this young man is convicted, it's not necessarily a felony...Again, depends on the state.

The lady posing the question, her family or whoever really need to speak to attorney who specializes in international law. I've been in law enforcement many years and most of the advice your getting on here is wrong and a little scary.
Maybe you should page up and read the first post after the OP. Also, my follow up post on age.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 11:50 AM
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Well call me dishonest but why in the world, at this point, would the boy admit to having ____ with the underaged hottie? All traces of DNA are gone. It is now his word against hers. Even if the parents raised stink on the ship, Carnival surely is not going to do a "rape" kit to see if the hottie had "relations" recently.

Also, why is the father so upset? He knew who his daughter was before the cruise. He should have kept a tighter rein on her throughout the cruise. I am sure she was not doing anything new that she did not practice back home. The father is delusional to be so angry with the boy to the point of wanting the boy jailed. They are kids with more hormones than brains. They need a talking to, maybe a little scare tactic thrown in but his precious "de-flowered" daughter probably came on the ship de-flowered. The boy should not be prosecuted.

Am I the only one who sees these pre-teen and teen hottie wannabes walking the street. They do every and anything possible to put forth an extremely sexy "womanly" image.

I see them on the street sometimes and just want to slap them in the back of the head and then pull their lowest of low rise jeans up to cover their explose pelvis!!! And who is purchasing these clothes for them? Dad???

Please.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 11:58 AM
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Original Poster- You said the father "wants to charge your nephew", which means as of yet he hasn't. I'd say first find out Where the charges will be coming from if he does follow through. Then find out the name of his lawyer and get your nephew a lawyer who should then contact the father's lawyer & or court system. But most definitely get a GOOD Lawyer familiar with your nephew's situation.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CandySpy
Original Poster- You said the father "wants to charge your nephew", which means as of yet he hasn't. I'd say first find out Where the charges will be coming from if he does follow through. Then find out the name of his lawyer and get your nephew a lawyer who should then contact the father's lawyer & or court system. But most definitely get a GOOD Lawyer familiar with your nephew's situation.
Why would the boy's lawyer contact the father's lawyer? For what!!!! To confess??? That is crazy. Hahahahahaha

Contact no one. speak to no one. answer no questions. admit to nothing.

"I DON'T KNOW HER AND I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING TO HER. SHE IS CRAZY" End of story. At this point, PROVE IT!!!!!

Plus, there is an excellent chance that the girl lives in Florida and the boy lives in Conneticut (or whereever) in which case, the father would have a hard time finding a law enforcement agency that would even consider trying to prosecute the case. It is not a federal offense and right about now, the FBI has better things to do than to chase after some over___ed teenagers.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 12:17 PM
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IBCruzin:

I don't how else to say this, but you're just dead wrong. Most people who are arrested are NOT read their rights nor do they have to be. You're right, arrest and Miranda go hand in hand....On TV and in the movies!!! No wonder, I suppose, because even real officers do it wrong on COPS when they are trying to show off for the camera...Slapping the cuffs on and reciting Miranda at the same time off the top of their head. Guess they think it looks cool, but they don't need to do it.....If they get one word of it wrong, which they usually do, it's a great defense for the suspect in court..So you're right about one thing, read if off the card but it only has to be done if someone is going to be questioned while under arrest!!!! New recruits in the academy are often surprised as well as relieved when they learn about Miranda and how often it DOESN'T apply. Up until then, most of they were just citizen tv show watchers too!

Someone only has to be mirandized if two things are happening and at the SAME TIME...They are in custody and they are going to be questioned about a crime. They DO NOT immediately have to be mirandized when they are arrested and 80 pct of those arrested don't need to be mirandized at all. Do you honestly think that everyone I arrest for driving on a suspended license has to be mirandizded? Do you think eveyone I arrest on a warrant has to be mirandized? NO, because I'm not going to interview them about their crime. In law enforcement, it's one of our biggest pet peeves what the general public thinks has to happen when it comes to Miranda. Kind of makes us laugh and bang our heads against the wall at the same time lol. The laugh comes when some suspect thinks he is going to get out of something because we didn't mirandize him when we took him to jail...The genius is usually disappointed about 30 seconds after he runs his pet theory by his attorney lol. We also now experience what we call "CSI syndrome"....Now the public thinks they know alot about forensics since they watch the show and want micoscopic evidence and fingerprints taken at the scene of their stolen bicycle lol. Sure, we'll get right on that.

The general public wouldn't tell the dentist how to pull a tooth or a plumber how to fix their drain....But they are never shy about giving us officers a few pointers on the law....As in the case, 99 pct incorrect pointers at that. BTW, Irish I wasn't trying to burn you in any way..Your posts were two that actually made some sense. Nuff said.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
IBCruzin:

I don't how else to say this, but you're just dead wrong. .
Sorry you say you are police officer, well guess what, I work for attorneys who love police officers that think just like you do. You make the lawyer's job easy. Mirandizing a person avoids the confusion of questioning someone who has not been mirandized thus lose the case on a technicality. If a person is not mirandized, they can confess to anything and it can never be used against them unless, of course, you are dealing with police that are willing to perjury themselves big time in court and most police are not. . . However some are. . .

Not sure where you police but . . . . well never mind.

Anyway back to the thread. . . . .

There is no evidence of a crime at this point so I would say the teen boy is safe unless he opens his big mouth.

The father was probably just shooting off at the mouth.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: Lots of lawyers on here

Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
The post about the age of consent being 17 in the US is fascinating..Where did you get that idea? It might be in some states..But in others it's 14, 15, 16 & 18. Also, if this young man is convicted, it's not necessarily a felony...Again, depends on the state.
I said I wasn't sure, I only knew what statutory rape age limit was in my state. I am an engineer, not a cop, which is why I told him/her to get a lawyer. The point you made has already been posted but thank you for help. It is nice to have the opinion of someone in law.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 12:35 PM
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Please remember we are not sure this whole thing is true. There maybe a couple of kids out there, who had nothing better to do than to cause trouble on a cruise board, filled with caring people.

While they are reading this, and eating junk food, they are also laughing, because they have now made a cop, and a lawyer upset with each other.

Remember, very seldom do people come here for the first time, to complain about a situation that happened on a ship, that they were not on.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 12:56 PM
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[quote="Luanne Russo"]
While they are reading this, and eating junk food, they are also laughing, because they have now made a cop, and a lawyer upset with each other.[quote]


Not a lawyer, someone who "works for attorneys." My money's on the cop.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 01:19 PM
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Ready,

You need a cruise!!!!!

Have fun on yours, and take care both of you.
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 01:26 PM
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Default LOL

You got that right, Luanne!!!! Although, I see your a sub teacher so you might need one worse!! lol...I used to do that too part time and think it was harder than being a cop in alot of ways...Probably more dangerous too!!!
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 03:17 PM
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I just have one word to sum up this whole situation.....

DUKE

Hopefully it's just some mad dad that found out his daughter isn't as lilly white and clean as he thought!!!!!!!!!! I'm with another poster, If I was that boy, I know nothing!!!!!!!! Never saw her before!!!!!!! These kids just kill me. They go out here and make adult decisions about things and then when someone finds out they yell rape. I know NO means NO but alot of these kids don't know what that word means. If you are going to make adult decisions and play then expect to pay one way or the other. JMO
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Old July 3rd, 2007, 03:26 PM
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I have to agree with others that this is probably a hoax. (AKA Carona Girl from the RCCL forum)

If the orignal poster was soooooo concerned about her nephew, wouldn't she have checked back in to see what has been posted and replied with additional info requests? I also can't believe that someone would join a cruise website to ask such a question. All they will get for answers are people's opinions. I'm sure there are other websites that specialize in legal advice.
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