Go Back   CruiseMates Cruise Community and Forums > Cruise Lines (Mainstream) > Carnival Cruise Lines
Register Forgot Password?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #91 (permalink)  
Old March 11th, 2008, 08:22 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

kojack, you can be 'sick of it' all you want -- it doesn't change facts.

FACT: Medicine in some parts of the word is substantially substandard, by Western lights. Hospitals are poorly equipped, sometimes abysmally so, and despite what you say all Docs are NOT the same, nor are they trained the same.

FACT: Older Cruisers make up a very large and extremely important part of the cruise industry's business. The notion that they should all stay home is the very last thing on the cruise industry's wish list. It would cost them billions and put most out of business. It is also condescending and insulting in the extreme.

FACT: You don't have to be old to have a medical emergency.

FACT: (And this one is critically important) Patients have every right to be consulted and to have a say in their treatment.
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #92 (permalink)  
Old March 11th, 2008, 08:26 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

"I'll repeat again.... respectful disagreement, dissention, and opinion are welcome. Disrepect is not acceptable, and is not tolerated. It's the latter that chases visitors away from the site, not the former. "

You can't be fairer than that Kuki.
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #93 (permalink)  
Old March 11th, 2008, 10:05 PM
Senior Member
First Mate
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 285
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Oceanmom, lets take some hypothetical country: No hypodermic needles no sanitation, no antibiotics, no up to date medical equipment or techniques of any kind. Do you, "really want surgery under those circumstances?" Many such places exist throughout the world. Would you want to be unceremoniously tossed out in a place like that?

I know what the contract says, oceanmom, I'm a lawyer by trade. It's not a matter of the contract. It's a matter of common sense and proper treatment of your customers. If you treat enough of your customers badly, enough of the time, you won't stay in business -- it's as simple as that.
RichStacy -

You point out that you are a lawyer - yet you seem to be able to see only one side of this situation.

In the opinion of the doctor on board who examined the individual in question, the safest place for the individual was in a local facility or aboard a flight back to the US, not in the ship's infirmary receiving care during a two day crossing to the next port of call.

You seem to believe that the decision to remain aboard the boat should have been the individual's - and, as a Libertarian, I can understand that conceptually. Why is it, though, that you seem unable to respect the Captain's decision to follow the Doctor's advice? Had the individual had the proper travel insurance, he would have been in the US on the same day.

Now, as a lawyer, look at the issue from Carnival's side. The individual is allowed to choose to stay on board, requires 24/7 care in a facility that is little more than a doctor's office, and subsequently dies of the condition. In the meantime, the Captain is forced to run the ship at full speed to the next destination, arriving ahead of time and depriving the remainder of the passengers of the enjoyment of a leisurely passage.

Do you not believe that Carnival is now going to be the subject of a wonderful lawsuit (probably multiple lawsuits from both the family of the deceased and those deprived of their cruise) and public relations nightmare?

Carnival is very clear in their recommendations - simply look at any document from them. "We highly recommend that all guests purchase our Travel Protection Plan." is printed on every document I seem to get from Carnival. Is it a money maker for Carnival - sure. But they also are forewarning you, the cruiser, that unexpected events can occur that will require changes in plans.

I have absolutely no problem with this decision by Carnival.
__________________
07/99 Smokefree Paradise
03/02 Smokefree Paradise
10/02 Smokefree Paradise
05/03 Smokefree Paradise
08/04 Smokefree Paradise (8 days due to Francis)
01/07 Carnival Liberty
11/07 Carnival Freedom Transatlantic
05/08 Carnival Liberty
12/09 Carnival Pride
06/10 Carnival Glory
Reply With Quote
  #94 (permalink)  
Old March 11th, 2008, 10:42 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

MTSFP, Contrary to what you say, I am completely able to see the other side of the argument, and indeed it was only yesterday that I noted that things were seldom black and white and that in the real world there were often good arguments on both sides of a question. This one is certainly no different. I can argue either side with equal facility and skill. However, even though I own some shares in mutual funds that have a stake in Carnival Corporation and ALL of my favorite cruise lines are owned by Carnival, I am a veteran cruiser and here, I choose quite deliberately (on your behalf) to identify with the passengers, not the arbitrary decision makers who decided to make life miserable for this man and his family, and possibly risked his life in doing so.

If you disagree that 's fine, It's a free country. But please allow me to have my opinion without engaging in personal insults. (accusing me of being able to see only one side, and being unable to accept the captain's decision, etc.) I don't question your sincerity or bona fides, why do you question mine? I assure you that I am at least as sincere as you are. I dare you to read all of my posts on this subject and tell me I have not made some very good and reasonable points.

I feel no compulsion to accept the captain's decision, I'm more concerned with whether the captain's decision was in the interest of the passenger (next time maybe my wife or yours) or in the interest of the corporation he serves. Aren't you? I have nothing against corporations, I am a conservative stock-owning capitalist. But when the welfare of my family is at stake I draw the line. Frankly as I have pointed out here, I have seen several instances where Captains made better decisions, IMHO, based on the welfare of their passengers, in one case risking an international incident to protect the health of a passenger.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Let's leave it at that. Of course I agree 100% about the insurance. You will note from the signature that we are sailing for 14 days with Princess in only 4 more days, believe me I have double checked the insurance
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #95 (permalink)  
Old March 11th, 2008, 11:05 PM
Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 63
Default

A solution for all the problems.... include everything in the cost of the cruise - cruise, taxes, port fees, gratitudes and insurance
__________________
Emerald Princess

Brilliance of the Seas

Celebrity Equinox
Reply With Quote
  #96 (permalink)  
Old March 12th, 2008, 05:56 AM
nurseypoo5's Avatar
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Keller TX
Posts: 693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
FACT: Older Cruisers make up a very large and extremely important part of the cruise industry's business. The notion that they should all stay home is the very last thing on the cruise industry's wish list. It would cost them billions and put most out of business. It is also condescending and insulting in the extreme.

FACT: You don't have to be old to have a medical emergency.

FACT: (And this one is critically important) Patients have every right to be consulted and to have a say in their treatment.
Ok, first issue i have with this is, If your very old, and 89 is VERY old, then its a risk you take. Whether he was ok or not, if he HAD had a heart attack or stroke, he'd have found himself off the ship also and taken to the nearest hospital, and probably left unconscious there. Why? Because its the only thing that really could have been done for someone in an acute situation. Again, a bleed could have been increased enough in minutes to kill this man, esp if he had a slow bleed that increased. YOUR NOT A DOCTOR, to keep making the assumption that the Dr dumped this guy without caring what happened to him is just not right. I have no doubt that this Dr thought he was doing the right thing and naturally he did do the most prudent thing he could. I find that most people agree with his descision. The Dr felt he needed a hospital, not a sick bay on a cruise ship for the next 2 1/2 days.

Yes, all cruise lines cater to a lot of seniors...that being said, we ALL agree to take the risk of traveling to far off lands. If your not willing to risk a "third world" health care situation than you best not travel there. I'd hate to find myself seriously ill in Honduras, but if i'm ill and there, its the position i put MYSELF in, isnt it? No one is trying to say that everyone should stay home, those are your words, no one elses...many of us are just trying to say what i've just said, if your elderly, you take your risks when you travel. Those who suggested someone stay home are the EXTREMELY elderly, only because of the obvious. My dads 93, he dances every weekend, but would i take him on a cruise at this age...nope. To many ifs, ands or buts that could happen. Just the rocking of the ship could knock him over! I know very few 90 yr olds that i would feel safe traveling like this with...if its your family, knock yourself out, i just dont feel its prudent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
FACT: (And this one is critically important) Patients have every right to be consulted and to have a say in their treatment.
Ok, so you have someone in a restaurant in downtown where ever who suddenly becomes violently ill and wants to finish dinner...does the manager have a right to ask him to leave even if he doesnt want too? A patient on board a flight to New York becomes diaphoretic, pale, increased work of breathing and vomiting...A Dr on board tells the pilot he needs to land in Kansas to get the pt to a hospital but the pt complains he doesnt want off in kansas, he wants to go to New York...but rather than letting him drop dead in the air the pilot lands in kansas. What about the elderly man who is on board a cruise ship and has symptoms of internal bleeding but doesnt want to go to the hospital in honduras, but would rather risk being on board for another 60 hours until he reaches american soil...but the ships Dr and Captain would rather he not drop dead in his cabin, so they ask him to leae and seek care off the ship. All of these are completely acceptable scenerios and happen a lot. Why so freaked out by the last one? No different really than the others except the man found himself in Honduras...which is where he chose to visit.

None of these shock me. All the "managers, captains, and Drs" did the right thing, and the legal thing. Sure he has a right NOT to go to the hospital, but he DOESNT HAVE THE RIGHT to risk his own life on a private ship/plane or anywhere else. THEY had the right to ask him to leave. I personally agree with thier decision.
__________________
Carnival Conquest 9/07
Carnival Ecstasy 1/08
Carnival Conquest (hey i cant afford airfare lol 1/11/09
Reply With Quote
  #97 (permalink)  
Old March 12th, 2008, 10:01 AM
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 561
Default

My last post on this subject (which I don't think is going to break anyone's heart lol ).

Kojack...Doctors in the majority of the third world and doctors here in the states are NOT all trained the same. Many areas of the U.S. are almost desperate for good doctors. So why don't they just recruit these doctors from third world nations, take care of their immigration details, fly them over and let them start working in local hospitals and clinics? Because they are not trained and qualified by our standards at least most of the time. A prime example is the Philippines. I'm not claiming to be an expert but my wife is from there, I've been numerous times and have had some minor (thank God) medical treatment there. Many Philippine doctors are being recruited now to come to the states to be, not doctors, but nurses! Their training abroad has qualified them to be at a nursing level in this country and MANY of them are doing it because it's 10 times or more the money they can make in the PI as doctors! But why stop at doctors? Do you really believe that police officers, electricians, teachers, attorneys etc etc from the third world are trained to our standards and can just come to the states and start working in their professions? Of course not....So why would you think doctors are any different? I think some get confused by this because there ARE many foreign doctors working here...But most of them have had their medical training, not necessarily in the Unites States, but other more advanced countries abroad. By the way and I'm speaking from experience on this, the rate you will pay as an American to a third world doctor and the rate you will pay as a citizen of that country are VERRRRRY different. Of course, everyone should have travel insurance, but I wouldn't count on getting every dime back that you have had to overspend to get treatment in say, Honduras. I doubt the insurance company is going to fight too much on your behalf. The way to get seen quickly is to offer a bribe to whoever is working in the office area of the third world treatment clinic you are at...Sorry but that's the reality. Of course, you say (or indicate based on their language capability) something like "I've appreciated all your help so far, I would appreciate any help you can give me to be seen quickly"as you hand them the cash. Some people have a real problem with this, but it's just the way it works in most of those countries. Good luck getting your bribe money back from your travel insurance company lol. Also, good luck with the language barrier. Most in the Philippines speak english as their second language...But the PI is a rare exception. I doubt most facilites in Honduras have a pool of people on hand to happily translate for you, so enjoy working out your bill, treatment etc with them when you can't even really communicate. Aren't alot of you sort of forgetting this one "little thing"? Whipping out your "travel insurance" card and presenting it to them is probably going to do you about as much good as presenting your AAA motor club card to them. Of course, everyone should have the travel insurance. But so many seem to think that if you have it, it's the end all answer to all your problems if you are in this situation...I would think again.

In my humble opionion, there are two very different arguments that are wrongly being combined into one BIG argument when it comes to this gentleman. Number 1....Should he have been made to leave the ship in, of all places, Honduras? Most on here obviously don't seem to have much of an issue with Carnival for making him do so. Rich, myself and a hand full of others are in the minority on this and don't feel he should have been. There are dozens of facts and arguments to support BOTH sides and a healthy (no pun) debate about this has been good, I think. I think both sides have expressed their opinions on this enough where it probably is time to let it go lol. But that's not my place to say if folks want to keep posting about it.

Number 2...Did Carnival do everything to make sure the man and his family got to as decent as possible medical facility, hotel or whatever else they needed once they were made to leave the ship? Did they help him make travel arrangements back to the states (and I know we can debate until Christmas as to whether or not they should have helped him with the fare if he was in a bind). From what I can gather, their treatment of him after he was off the ship was probably about a D+ at best. Maybe it was an A+ and we just haven't heard Carnival's side yet, but somehow I doubt it.

I'm sure, as with most things in life, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Thanks to everyone who has particpated in this issue.
__________________
Carnival Holiday (1999 ?)
RCI Sovereign of the Seas 2007
RCI Enchantment of the Seas 2009
Reply With Quote
  #98 (permalink)  
Old March 12th, 2008, 01:06 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

Nurseypoo,
You just repeat yourself. The same old arguments, all amounting to blind acceptance of authority and very little respect for patient input into critical decisions. You don't address the logic of the countervailing arguments at all or acknowledge the possible merit of them. And you just like to argue. I have noted your opinions and though I disagree, I do appreciate your participation in the discussion. I've said all I have to say on the subject.

readytobaord,
You are !00% correct. There are good arguments worthy of reflection and consideration on both sides. I doubt if anyone will be convinced to change their minds at this point.

Now let's see, where is that piece of paper that says we have insurance for our cruise next week
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #99 (permalink)  
Old March 12th, 2008, 01:55 PM
oceanmom62's Avatar
Junior Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 0
Default

Quote:
but the cruise line insists, against your will and your judgment on throwing your loved one off the ship and putting him or her at the mercy of third world medicine which you consider totally inadequate. That is the issue! Either ashore or at sea, the patient should have some say except in the most dire of circumstances.


When you sign a contract you agree to terms- you give something to get something. When you travel with pretty much any cruise line you agree to give up control over certain decisions and to let the captain make those decisions for you. That includes the say to your medical treatment. If he had had travel insurance then he very well may have flown home THAT day and been treated immediately.

And I have been on board when there was a medical emergency. We diverted back to our last port because that was closer. The captain then went faster than normal in an attempt to get us to the next port with some time left to spend there. Many people spent that day seasick-my dh was one of them. He didn't complain, just dealt with it because he wanted the person taken care of. We had very little time in port but didn't complain because we wanted the person taken care of. I have sympathy for many but wonder where the common sense is. My grandmother died 3 weeks shy of 100 and I have no problems helping people who need help. But she would not have gotten in a tour boat at her age, much less a cruise ship. She also would have turned down your help because that's what family is for-to help. She would have suffered alone if I wasn't nearby. People need to take all things into account and make decisions based on what is likely, not what they would like to have happen. If I cruise to a place with imperfect medical care and am in need of said care, that is my decision and mine alone. I do not expect others to do for me what I can do for myself. That's how I was raised and how I am raising my dd. I think that is part of what is wrong with society- no one knows how to care for themselves.
Reply With Quote
  #100 (permalink)  
Old March 12th, 2008, 05:12 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

Oceanmom says,

"The captain then went faster than normal in an attempt to get us to the next port with some time left to spend there. Many people spent that day seasick-my dh was one of them. He didn't complain, just dealt with it because he wanted the person taken care of. We had very little time in port but didn't complain because we wanted the person taken care of."

How magnanimous of you! NNOOOO no complaints from you!!! ****edited by moderator**** You didn't say how old the person was, but if it had been an eight year old girl would you feel differently?

I've said it before, and I'll say it once more in case you missed it. Sr. Citizens are the very lifeblood of the cruise industry. Regardless of how you feel, I assure you that Carnival Corp. which owns Holland America, Princess, Seabourn, Cunard, Costa and O&P, really doesn't want to alienate them.

***edited by moderator***
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #101 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2008, 06:38 AM
nurseypoo5's Avatar
Senior Member
Captain
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Keller TX
Posts: 693
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richstacy
Nurseypoo,
You just repeat yourself. The same old arguments, all amounting to blind acceptance of authority and very little respect for patient input into critical decisions. You don't address the logic of the countervailing arguments at all or acknowledge the possible merit of them. And you just like to argue. I have noted your opinions and though I disagree, I do appreciate your participation in the discussion. I've said all I have to say on the subject.
hello kettle, I'm Pot calling you black

I'm done also. We probably need it locked at this point. Obviously there are two sides to this discussion and hardly any middle of the ground participants.

Its all about opinion...remember opinions are like butts, everyone has one.

Were all for the most part, friends. Perhaps before we say things we'll regret over somthing none of has control over, we should let it die here.

Do as you wish, its been entertaining, but i'm done.

Happy cruising all
__________________
Carnival Conquest 9/07
Carnival Ecstasy 1/08
Carnival Conquest (hey i cant afford airfare lol 1/11/09
Reply With Quote
  #102 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2008, 10:09 AM
oceanmom62's Avatar
Junior Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 0
Default

How magnanimous of you! NNOOOO no complaints from you!!! ****edited by moderator**** You didn't say how old the person was, but if it had been an eight year old girl would you feel differently?


richstacey, did I say anything about the age of the person? I don't even know the sex of the person, much less their age or what was wrong with him/her! I also noticed that the moderator edited your post- I would love to know what was there. I will no longer respond to you on any thread because you spend a great deal of time talking about respect, morals and treating others the way you would want your own family treated, yet I see very little of that reflected in your posts. Goodbye!
Reply With Quote
  #103 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2008, 01:09 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

Nursypoo,
Touche' and agreed
You are a rational and fair debater.
And now my wife and I, armed with travel insurance as always, are off to be the guest of Princess for two weeks in the warm
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #104 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2008, 01:24 PM
richstacy's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,413
Default

Oceanmom, "My grandmother died 3 weeks shy of 100 and I have no problems helping people who need help. But she would not have gotten in a tour boat at her age, much less a cruise ship." Yet honestly oceanmom, I've cruised the world with octogenarians! I perhaps mistakenly took that as an indication that you thought that old people should not be getting on tour boats much less cruise ships. And that they shouldn't be cramping the style of the young by cruising.

It's OK oceanmom, I used to complain about the elderly cruising too, but I had my 66th birthday last week (it comes a lot quicker then you could ever believe) and I guess I'm feeling that, and taking a different point of view now. I do share your view about individual responsibility, believe me.

And now my dear wife of 47 years and I are headed out (with travel insurance) to be a guest of princess for two weeks of sun.

Good day and good wishes to you.
richard
__________________
RichStacy
Landlocked in Denver, but cruisin every chance we get.

Polynesia, Carib. '86
Cr. Odyssey, Scandinavia, '91, 30 Day S Pac. 2002
Crystal Harm, Aust., N.Z., '94
Royal Odyssey, AK,'96
Old Cr. Pr. Canal, '97
RCCL, Carib, 1998
Volendam, Car, 2000
Ryndam, 35 day S. Am., Antarctica, '03
Is. Pr., Canal, 2004
Statendam, 34 day China, Japan, AK '06
Cr.Pr., Carib. 08
Eurodam, Atlantic, Med. '10
Golden Princess
Reply With Quote
  #105 (permalink)  
Old March 13th, 2008, 05:25 PM
Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: mississauga ontario
Posts: 94
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ready2board
My last post on this subject (which I don't think is going to break anyone's heart lol ).

Kojack...Doctors in the majority of the third world and doctors here in the states are NOT all trained the same. Many areas of the U.S. are almost desperate for good doctors. So why don't they just recruit these doctors from third world nations, take care of their immigration details, fly them over and let them start working in local hospitals and clinics? Because they are not trained and qualified by our standards at least most of the time. A prime example is the Philippines. I'm not claiming to be an expert but my wife is from there, I've been numerous times and have had some minor (thank God) medical treatment there. Many Philippine doctors are being recruited now to come to the states to be, not doctors, but nurses! Their training abroad has qualified them to be at a nursing level in this country and MANY of them are doing it because it's 10 times or more the money they can make in the PI as doctors! But why stop at doctors? Do you really believe that police officers, electricians, teachers, attorneys etc etc from the third world are trained to our standards and can just come to the states and start working in their professions? Of course not....So why would you think doctors are any different? I think some get confused by this because there ARE many foreign doctors working here...But most of them have had their medical training, not necessarily in the Unites States, but other more advanced countries abroad. By the way and I'm speaking from experience on this, the rate you will pay as an American to a third world doctor and the rate you will pay as a citizen of that country are VERRRRRY different. Of course, everyone should have travel insurance, but I wouldn't count on getting every dime back that you have had to overspend to get treatment in say, Honduras. I doubt the insurance company is going to fight too much on your behalf. The way to get seen quickly is to offer a bribe to whoever is working in the office area of the third world treatment clinic you are at...Sorry but that's the reality. Of course, you say (or indicate based on their language capability) something like "I've appreciated all your help so far, I would appreciate any help you can give me to be seen quickly"as you hand them the cash. Some people have a real problem with this, but it's just the way it works in most of those countries. Good luck getting your bribe money back from your travel insurance company lol. Also, good luck with the language barrier. Most in the Philippines speak english as their second language...But the PI is a rare exception. I doubt most facilites in Honduras have a pool of people on hand to happily translate for you, so enjoy working out your bill, treatment etc with them when you can't even really communicate. Aren't alot of you sort of forgetting this one "little thing"? Whipping out your "travel insurance" card and presenting it to them is probably going to do you about as much good as presenting your AAA motor club card to them. Of course, everyone should have the travel insurance. But so many seem to think that if you have it, it's the end all answer to all your problems if you are in this situation...I would think again.

In my humble opionion, there are two very different arguments that are wrongly being combined into one BIG argument when it comes to this gentleman. Number 1....Should he have been made to leave the ship in, of all places, Honduras? Most on here obviously don't seem to have much of an issue with Carnival for making him do so. Rich, myself and a hand full of others are in the minority on this and don't feel he should have been. There are dozens of facts and arguments to support BOTH sides and a healthy (no pun) debate about this has been good, I think. I think both sides have expressed their opinions on this enough where it probably is time to let it go lol. But that's not my place to say if folks want to keep posting about it.

Number 2...Did Carnival do everything to make sure the man and his family got to as decent as possible medical facility, hotel or whatever else they needed once they were made to leave the ship? Did they help him make travel arrangements back to the states (and I know we can debate until Christmas as to whether or not they should have helped him with the fare if he was in a bind). From what I can gather, their treatment of him after he was off the ship was probably about a D+ at best. Maybe it was an A+ and we just haven't heard Carnival's side yet, but somehow I doubt it.

I'm sure, as with most things in life, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Thanks to everyone who has particpated in this issue.



Readytoboard,
I'll just say this in response, it is same kind of thinking that gave us Slavery, the thought that blacks were'nt people also gave us the holocaust, and many more atrocities in this world of ours. The thought process that say i'm better that you. Sure Third World countries may not have the most advanced Med Staff But there's no need to bash them and that is what i'm talking about. Like Richstacy calling Roatan a hellhole. These hellholes are the ones we clamour to go on our cruises so just give it some thought before bashing them when something does not go the way we want.
Reply With Quote
  #106 (permalink)  
Old March 14th, 2008, 08:57 PM
Member
Passenger
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 78
Default

YAAAAWN
Reply With Quote
  #107 (permalink)  
Old March 16th, 2008, 09:14 AM
crazysis's Avatar
Senior Member
Admiral
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: sacramento, ca
Posts: 2,862
Default

my only comment on this topic is that i think that carnival should look into upgrading their onboard medical facilities so that they are alittle better equipped to diagnosis and treat patients. especially since there are alot of the elderly cruising.
__________________


Read and post cruise reviews
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
2011, adequately, airlift, airlifted, airlifts, bleeding, carnival, conquest, cruise, emergency, equipped, freedom, internal, march, passenger, ship, sick

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
missing cruise ship passenger Trip Chit - Chat for Cruisers 8 August 7th, 2009 12:42 AM
missing cruise ship passenger Trip Holland America 0 August 3rd, 2009 09:59 PM
Carnival Victory hit NYC Passenger Ship Terminal Phil&Liz Carnival Cruise Lines 19 August 9th, 2007 07:15 PM
QM2 Diverted for Sick Passenger rollerdonna Chit - Chat for Cruisers 2 April 13th, 2005 04:44 PM
Passenger jumps from Cruise Ship! CruiseISLife Royal Caribbean International 3 September 12th, 2004 08:22 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


 

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:35 PM.
design by: Themes by Design

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.1