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Dave the Wave January 1st, 2009 09:11 AM

Man overboard!!
 
Another one takes the plunge...

Report: Man falls overboard from Port Canaveral cruise ship

From Staff Reports
7:45 AM EST, January 1, 2009

MyFoxOrlando.com is reporting that the Coast Guard is currently searching for a Port Canaveral cruise-ship worker who went overboard early today.

Co-workers reported the man, an employee aboard the Carnival cruise ship Sensation, fell overboard at about 1 a.m. about 20 miles off the coast of Vero Beach, according to the story. The co-workers reportedly threw a life preserver into the waters below and notified the Coast Guard.

The cruise ship was supposed to dock at Port Canveral this morning.

This marks the second time in a week that someone has fallen overboard from a cruise ship.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...,7237818.story

ttam January 1st, 2009 11:05 AM

MAN OVERBOARD
 
Jump, push, fell thrown over not a way to go. FBI will be busy, andy words from the ship or carnival yet.Not a way to satrt 2009
bob :(

cutiecat January 1st, 2009 12:01 PM

I struggle to understand why this keeps happening....

When I talk about cruising I get so many comments from people who have never cruised about "what about falling overboard??" That leads into a discussion of how 'falling overboard is not the norm.' However, two in less than a week is not making my statement look good...

sistagoldenhair January 1st, 2009 12:14 PM

I was thinking the same exact thing Cutiecat. Was it rough seas? Was he goofing around near the rail? How does this happen accidentally?

Does anyone know roughly how long it takes for the ship to turn around and search? Too long for someone to stay afloat?

Dave the Wave January 1st, 2009 12:21 PM

The seas are probably pretty rough with a strong easterly blowing right now. It may push him to shore though. The ship takes some time and distance to turn around. Apparently Sensation went on it's way back to port. I wonder what the cost of a search like this is? :?:

cutiecat January 1st, 2009 12:50 PM

I have never found myself in a situation in which I could even remotely go overboard...

I hate when this happens...it's a long way down from the top...I hope he's ok.

mehawk January 1st, 2009 01:09 PM

People need to take care of themselves.

OceanAngel January 1st, 2009 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
The seas are probably pretty rough with a strong easterly blowing right now. It may push him to shore though. The ship takes some time and distance to turn around. Apparently Sensation went on it's way back to port. I wonder what the cost of a search like this is? :?:

Hi Dave I did a google search this is what I found!

Quote:

How much does the U.S. Coast Guard spend on its search and rescue cases? Plenty:

Each hour a U.S. Coast Guard aircraft is aloft costs about $3,700 - and several may be used in a single search.
Our medium size ships, referred to as cutters, cost roughly $1,550 an hour to run.
Even a U.S. Coast Guard small boat costs between $300 and $400 per hour to operate


here is the website if you want to read more about it!


http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg534/SAR...ARisNOjoke.asp

[/quote]

speedman420 January 1st, 2009 03:04 PM

I just dont understand how someone can accidently fall overboard. I cant believe that anyone who jumps to commit suicide does not have second thoughts right after they jump..... and there is no turning back then. Can you imagine what it must feel like to be in the water when it is dark and see the ship disapearing. It must be terrible...
I cant imagine how you can just fall off a ship.

Paul Motter January 1st, 2009 03:38 PM

No one has "ever" accidentally fallen off of a cruise ship - EVER. This is my blog for tomorrow...

“Falling” Off a Cruise Ship?
Written by: Paul Motter

It is time for the English language to invent new words for descending through the atmosphere. Technically, anyone who leaves a cruise ship by any means other than the gangway is “falling” - however, I am personally tired of media reports of people “falling from cruise ships” - as if it is the same act as what occurs to people learning how to roller skate.

People rarely if EVER just “fall” from a cruise ship - they jump, they dive, they inch out beyond the safety barriers and either lose their grip or just let go. Once the initial act is effected, they essentially “fall” through the air and into the sea. But what we are missing in almost every media report is the details of what happened immediately before the act of “falling” occured.

Last week we had a woman who was reported as missing. This case was probably the closest case to the infamous George Allen Smith case we have had yet. George Smith was the newlywed who went overboard during a cruise on a Royal Caribbean ship in the Adriatic Sea in 2005.

In that case, there were signs of an argument before he disappeared. There were even traces of blood below the balcony where he apparently “fell short” on his way down. This was a sad case, as they all are, but the media could not get enough of speculating about the circumstances and trying to prove there was foul play involved.

In the end, no one was ever charged in that case, and the one person who probably knows more details about it than anyone in the world, Jennifer Hagel (Smith), his new bride at the time, has subsequently announced that she fully believes it was a suicide. She said George was taking lots of prescription drugs that did not mix well with alcohol, as well as anti-depressants for his mental state, and that the night he disappeared he had been drinking excessively.

Through all the speculation, lawsuits and countercharges from his family (who were not there) her story has held up. This is despite the highly unusual circumstances where she could not even account for her own whereabouts at the time of his demise due to her own inebriation.

Jennifer Seitz, who apparently died last week after “falling” from Norwegian Pearl near Cancun, also is believed to have committed suicide. This time the media accusations and innuendo did not last nearly as long as the George Smith case because her very own mother was also on board, and she and the rest of the family all come forward to say that Jennifer was depressed, possibly bi-polar, and that they believe she chose her own fate.

Yesterday, we got yet another report of someone “falling” from a cruise ship. We are even told that he was a crewmember and that his friends (one report even says his family) saw him fall. Excuse me - but where are the details here? How did he fall? That is the the crux of the story, the main factor that puts the entire event into perspective.

Was he drinking? It was just after 1:00 am on New Years Day. Was he out on a railing doing a Kate Winslet “I’m flying?” impersonation. Was he on or off duty?

Hello, media? Please learn to ask the right questions before you report these stories. They should not even be reported unless you can say what the circumstances preceding the “fall” are - or at the very least be prepared to say “we do not yet know how or why the person got around the extensive safety systems in place on the ship.”

Why? Because there ARE extensive safety systems, but a large number of uninformed people who have never been on a ship simply do not get that. I have never seen a single story in a major newspaper about someone “falling” from a cruise ship where some idiot in the “comments” fields below the article doesn’t write something like “well, I’m am sure a crewmember killed them and dumped the body.” Outrageous innuendo and lies!

Even last week, for Jennifer Seitz, I was reading the report in the Miami Herald and someone made that comment, “I’ll bet a crewmember killed her, it happens all the time. It is time for Congress to do something about these floating death traps.”

Puleeeeezzzeeee People! How many times do you have to hear the facts before they intrude on your over-active imagination. No crewmember has ever even been accused of killing a passenger, at least that I know of in recent (post-1990) history. Certainly, no crewmember, or passenger, has ever even been tried or convicted of murder of a passenger on a cruise ship.

“It happens all the time?” Stop watching Jerry Springer and start taking some pride in having at least a modicum of awareness about the real world. What is the problem here? Is it too much violence on TV and Movies, is it people who live in a fantasy world, or is just a lack of care or respect for the truth?

Cruise Ships are by far the safest vacations ever. No passenger or crewmember has ever just “fallen” from a ship unless they were intentionally doing something they were not supposed to be doing.

As least as far as we know - because right now as I write this we still have a media report “pending” that a crewmember has “fallen” off of a cruise ship - but it has not yet been reported how this happened.

Am I predicting it will be subsquently announced he was off-duty, inebriated and had placed himself into a highly precarious place? Yes, I am. I could be wrong - but if I am it will the first case of a person truly “falling off of a cruise ship” through no fault of his own in modern history.

* I am referring to the ships that belong to CLIA, the Cruise Lines International Assn, which includes all of the brands commonly known to American passengers; Carnival, Royal Caribbean, NCL, Princess, Holland America, Windstar, Cunard, Oceania, Silversea, Regent, Seabourn, Seadream, Costa, MSC and more.

ragtiki2005 January 1st, 2009 04:10 PM

Does anyone know what Jen Seitz was doing before she went overboard? Was there an argument with her husband? By the way, Happy New Year everyone! Bob

Paul Motter January 1st, 2009 04:46 PM

Yes - it is in the posts about her here in the boards. there was an argument at 8:00 which a neighbor overheard someone say "stop hitting me". That was apparently just before she went over.

We know the husband was not an angel, but by most reports he was a pretty good guy who treated her very well most of the time, even her family says so.

He had one prior arrest for domestic abuse - charges dropped by her.

I have seen bi-polar people who are borderline suicidal. They can do things like provoke fights, and then try to shift blame to the other party when they do so.

I am not saying I know what SHE did, I am just saying that it isn't unusual.

green_rd January 1st, 2009 05:14 PM

There is a SARS team at Patrick AFB just south of Cocoa Beach could have a copter in the area quicker than Sensation could have turned around. I think crew members find themselves in more dangerous locations on a ship that pax ever are.

DayvidB January 1st, 2009 05:29 PM

Me, I just do basics and there are a lot of **** up folks that happen to cruise and jump. If you wanna do it on my cruise fine, your call.

I can accept that because your MENTAL as a person, your call as a mentalist is do this, I get get that... but not all this "Bi-polar" bollocks

WHAT THE **** is bi polar, is it your either North or SOUTH :shock: :shock: :shock: :D :D :?:

If your mental and jump off ships, sorry then thats it your mental, no other reason for doing that

People that jump off a ship are mental, soft, not right in the head and not the sort of folks you want to start your vacation with.

So who wants to to stand up for them, apart from the other Bi whatever bollocks folks?

Get a grip only REALLY sick people do this sort of thing and they are really sick and really rare on ships

ferrangi January 1st, 2009 05:35 PM

Well put, well said Paul!
Thank you.

And I agree with Cutiecat.... I've had a balcony cabin twice now and drank just about everyday on both cruises and never once came close to falling over, off or down. In fact, I made it a point to stay on the inside while while drinking.. :wink:

Maybe if your mental state is in question... or you don't know your alcohol limits, maybe cruising is not for you. JMO

Paul Motter January 1st, 2009 06:06 PM

Maybe it is time to stop dancing around this idea:

I know the first time I was on a cruise ship it struck me how easily someone could disappear if they fell over. It is like looking over a very steep crevice where you cannot see the bottom due to overgrowth, etc. The thought just occurs to you because we are all wired to understand things like that on a very basic brain level.

Inevitably, the sight of fast moving water below a cruise ship is just going to stimulate certain thoughts in certain people pre-disposed to those kinds of thoughts - specifically suicidal.

The truth is, if I knew someone who had recently tried suicide and was still in a fragile state, I would not recommend they go on a cruise. It is a little like recommending they walk across the Golden Gate bridge.

People do commit suicide during cruises. Statistically I do not know if it is any more per 100,000 than is statictically normal, but I wouldn't be surprised - because of that thought we all get when we look over the side of a cruise ship.

Now, to a normal person that would never be a reason not to cruise. That would be like saying one shouldn't go to the Grand Canyon to see its beauty because people commit suicide there.

No HERE IS SOMETHING IRONIC. Before I wrote that I googled "Grand Canyon Suicides" just to see how common it is and 33 people committed suicide in U.S. National parks in 2008 alone.

They call it "Death by Canyon" and that makes it 5-times more prevalent than suicide by cruise ship.

Interesting, no?

And DavidB, it isn't politically correct to mock people who are suicidal. It is a mental condition related to depression, not a malicious intent.

Ron January 1st, 2009 09:12 PM

I think Paul has said it all re/ folks going overboard. I get just as, if not more upset with the media as he does with their slanted approach to these
" overboarders " but I have no suggestion on how to get them to be a little more responsible and realistic in reporting the facts--just the facts-- with no slant.

By the way, regarding the lady who went off the balcony at a major hotel at or near Disney a few days ago--- I haven't seen or heard one scrap about that on the news--maybe I just missed it or maybe since it was a hotel anchored to concrete and dirt it wasn't worthy of much more than a passing mention.
Can Dave the Wave shed anymore light on that--has it been beat to death in the news around central Fla. or forgotten ?

jlauntz January 1st, 2009 09:57 PM

The first cruise I ever took was aboard the USS Saratoga in 1969. We had 2 men go overboard during that cruise, Both were accidents caused by jet blast. In 6 months only 2 men lost and there isn't anywhere near the railing on an aircraft carrier that there is on a cruise ship. My bet is that any passenger who falls overboard was doing something incrediably stupid PERIOD
Crewmembers on the other hand may be subjected to more dangerous situations than passengers and could possibly fall overboard. It is nothing but sensationalism when the media lumps all cruise ship accidents into the " falling overboard" category.
Finally let me say that during my career I have seen many suicides, none pretty, but all were by individuals who were intent on doing harm to themselves and needed some type of help they never got, they would have found a way no matter where they were, may the all rest in peace.

Paul Motter January 2nd, 2009 12:17 AM

Okay... oddly enough, in this last case people are saying that he did actually accidentally "fall" from the ship. They say he was the lead singer in a band onboard and he was posing for a picture and he fell.

As I read it again, however, it says just that "one passenger" said

"it was an accident, he did not jump"

Okay, that is acceptable, it still doesn't say that he wasn't doing something he shouldn't have been doing at the time like sitting on a railing or something precarious close to the edge. If I am wrong we have our first case ever of a person known to have accidentally fallen from a cruise ship.

katlady January 2nd, 2009 02:13 AM

It's surprising that no children have "fallen off" cruise ships. The people that fall off cruise ships are normally in there 20s and 30s. That's odd it must be something in the cruise ship design, we should enact Federal Legislation to fix it. :wink:

airforce95 January 2nd, 2009 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by katlady
It's surprising that no children have "fallen off" cruise ships. The people that fall off cruise ships are normally in there 20s and 30s. That's odd it must be something in the cruise ship design, we should enact Federal Legislation to fix it. :wink:

Instead of enacting Federal Legislation to fix it lets just give them a Bail Out. LOL LOL A Bail Out will fix every thing right????

msblackjack January 2nd, 2009 08:26 AM

the lady overboard at Orlando - DID NOT generate as much publicity as the cruise ship overboard lady... we had an article in our local paper, but the article was very brief and no follow up; whereas, the other lady had her details on every news channel and news website; interviews with "witnesses" that were on the ship etc...

Paul: google suicide and Skyway Bridge; we have numerous jumpers and attempt jumpers on this bridge (located between Manatee Co & St. Petersburg); they have a suicide hotline phone on the bridge in several locations. Hopefully, the cruise ships don't start posted suicide hotline numbers on the railings... but then again, if that is what it takes to keep one person safe it would be worth it.

Dave the Wave January 2nd, 2009 09:41 AM

Ron, It was in the local papers but not much beyond. In Orlando this is overshadowed by the Casey Anthony story. That is a topic for another discussion but for the record, I think it was an accident, she tried to cover it up and she is a hottie.

Update from Orlando Sentinel:

Search goes on for Carnival cruise worker
Scott Travis | (Fort Lauderdale) Sun Sentinel
January 2, 2009

Rescue workers were still searching Thursday night for a cruise-ship employee who tumbled 82 feet overboard sometime after midnight while celebrating New Year's Eve.

The cruise line has not released the identity of the employee, whom co-workers reported as going overboard about 50 minutes after ringing in the New Year on the Carnival Sensation, which was 20 miles east of Vero Beach. Co-workers threw him a life ring, but he never resurfaced, according to WPTV-Channel 5 in West Palm Beach.

Ship officials immediately began a search and contacted the Coast Guard for help.

The employee was an off-duty member of Carnival's entertainment staff, the cruise line said. Six fellow crew members saw him go overboard, the Carnival said in a statement.

Carnival: Employee fell overboard on accident; search continuesThe Sensation helped with the search, then returned to port. It docked at Port Canaveral about 10 a.m. Thursday after a four-day cruise to the Bahamas.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the young man at this time as well as with his friends and family," a Carnival spokesman said in a statement Thursday. Carnival Corp., the world's largest cruise operator, is based in Miami.

Search-and-rescue coordinators from Miami and Fort Pierce used four boats, two helicopters and two planes in their search. Carnival is also assisting the search, said Coast Guard spokesman James Harless. The aircraft returned to base once night fell. The Coast Guard still had an 87-foot cutter in the area Thursday night, and will reassess the search this morning.

Rescuers were searching more than 1,000 square miles. The current would take him northeast, Harless said.

Harless said the man's steep fall, as well as other conditions, hurt his chances of survival.

"It is a high distance. He fell into seven-foot seas without a life jacket at night," Harless said. "There were winds and strong current he was battling with, along with the high seas."
The water temperature was 72 degrees, he said.

Local law enforcement in Vero Beach will investigate, Harless said. Carnival will conduct its own investigation as well, he said. WPTV reported that the FBI is investigating, although the incident appears to be an accident.

The missing employee is the second person in a week to make news for going over the rail of a cruise ship.

Winter Haven resident Jennifer Ellis Seitz, 36, went off the Norwegian Pearl ship and into the Gulf of Mexico on Christmas Day. Her body has not been recovered, and multiple searches for her have ended. Family members said they think she might have jumped.

Alan Schmadtke of the Sentinel staff contributed to this report. Information from The Associated Press also was used
.

Apparently he was standing on the rail posing for a picture when he fell. Drunk I am sure.

msblackjack January 2nd, 2009 09:54 AM

maybe the Carnival employee was demonstrating to his crew members how not to fall overboard; :roll:

Dave the Wave January 2nd, 2009 09:59 AM

Keep in mind he was in the band. So I am sure they were doing drugs and drinking. Probably trying to show off for some groupies. Could have been on the back of Lido deck. Says it was 82 feet above the water. Maybe that new Serenity area. Went back there during a break in their set to smoke a joint or something. The 6 other peeps were probably the other band members and roadies. :idea:

Ron January 2nd, 2009 10:11 AM

Thanks for the input re/ coverage of the overboarder from the hotel--pretty much as I figured---no ship involved--not so much drama to report ! :)

We have the opportunity to coin a new phrase-- know the phrase for a drug overdose--OD'd ??---Well, lets give the media something to use-- OB'd --- for those who go overboard !! :) :)

Dave the Wave January 2nd, 2009 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron
Thanks for the input re/ coverage of the overboarder from the hotel--pretty much as I figured---no ship involved--not so much drama to report ! :)

We have the opportunity to coin a new phrase-- know the phrase for a drug overdose--OD'd ??---Well, lets give the media something to use-- OB'd --- for those who go overboard !! :) :)

That is a great term.

What happened to your wife? She OB'd on the Pearl.

What happened to your lead singer? He OB'd on the Sensation.

Ron January 2nd, 2009 10:25 AM

Yep-- and " please don't get me upset--I might decide to OB " !!! :shock:

msblackjack January 2nd, 2009 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron
Yep-- and " please don't get me upset--I might decide to OB " !!! :shock:

LMAO -

it could also replace the old phrase of "take a long walk off a short pier"; now it could be just: Take a cruise & OB.

briguy January 2nd, 2009 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave the Wave
Keep in mind he was in the band. So I am sure they were doing drugs and drinking. Probably trying to show off for some groupies. Could have been on the back of Lido deck. Says it was 82 feet above the water. Maybe that new Serenity area. Went back there during a break in their set to smoke a joint or something. The 6 other peeps were probably the other band members and roadies. :idea:


Cmon Dave, for one you are assuming all musicians drink, smoke dope and try to show off for cruise passengers. Two, dont say you know for sure anything. You werent there and the details arent all reported yet. This is why the media gets stuff all blown out of proportion. People buy into the assumptions and generalizations and eventually what they hear they think is the truth. Lets keep it real huh? As for everybody else who is joking about this topic of OB'D? Think about your wife, daughter, brother or dad who was the one that went into the water. ****edited by moderator***


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