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  #91 (permalink)  
Old March 5th, 2010, 12:22 AM
david30101
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Im not the type to ask ships crew how much they make either. If they dont like it, they wont be working on a ship. Im ex Navy. I did 12 yrs from 1983-95 on 3 differnt ships. I did not live or rent any property anywhere else. Besides the taxes taken out of my pay, everything else was payed for. Room and board, 4 meals a day, medical, uniform allowance, travel to differnt ports, etc, etc, I didnt even need a vehicle. My job was 300 ft back and down 3 decks. At the time I only "took home" on avarage 400.00 a week. in 1995 when I got out of Navy I probably made less then 16K a yr. 1983 in boot camp as a E1, I made gross about 700.00 month.
Those were the "stupid years" of my life, where I should of saved..But i spent..I did have a vehicle with me, and a boat, and 4 credit cards with a balance.
Now I work as a Automotive mechanic making over 50K a yr. im happy, but sometimes the cruise ship job has crossed my mind, expecially recently with the recession and I almost lost my job...Only experance i have ship related is engine room where now you need a college degree, which I dont have. But working a cruise ship is still better then getting your butt shot off in millitary......
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old March 5th, 2010, 08:13 AM
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MSNBC did a special on cruseing several weeks ago. The head room stewart they interviewed averaged around $2500 a month. NO TAXES. Almost all the cruise lines pay the same way. If its so bad why do we meet so many people that have worked for Carnival 10 + years and they are happy to do it.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old March 5th, 2010, 03:44 PM
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I agree with Kuki - i am leery of any waitperson telling you how much they make. If you knew they made plenty of money would you tip more?

If you do the math $25 per guest per day can add up nicely for a waiter or room steward. 20 guests = $350/week - a lot of money in many countries.

Remember they don't pay for food, healthcare, room or utilities. Its all free & clear. I get especially upset when I hear about someone getting a sad story from their room steward about their personal problems.

Bottom line - they are not indentured servants - they chose to work there, many of them stay year after year, and they are coveted jobs.

A group of "pirates" actually protested in front of Carnival ships in Vancouver last week over supposed low wages. Why aren't they protesting American waitresses only making $2.00/hour. It makes exactly the same amount of sense.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old March 6th, 2010, 04:08 PM
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I believe that cruiselines should just pay their employees a decent salary and add that as a permanent, non-negotiable cost of the cruise, just like that gasoline fee. I also feel that should happen in restaurants, etc...

I shouldn't have to tip someone who is just doing their job. Their employer should pay them a decent salary for doing their job. Period.

If I tip, that should be because I feel someone has gone above the boundaries of their job or has given extraordinary service.

In short, I should not be paying their salary - their employer should!

However, until these things change and the cruselines become responsible employers, I do not reduce or remove the auto tip. Also, if someone goes above and beyond what I feel is "their job" then I do give an additional cash tip at the end of the cruise to the room steward, waiter, bartender, maitre 'd or other staff member. I bring along a small number of thank you notes with envelopes and hand write a thank you and give them that with cash inside the last night of the cruise.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old March 7th, 2010, 12:54 PM
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Michelle - have you ever dined in Europe? It is not common to leave tips in Europe because the wage of the server is built into the cost of the meal.

Personally, I find the service and even preparation of food to be much costlier and less impressive in your "average" restaurant in Europe than in America, by far.

Put another way - I have chosen to dine in several restaurants in Europe to try the local food, and I almost always walk away feeling I didn't really enjoy the meal and it was too expensive. Of course there are exceptions to this, but in America anytime you pay about $15-25 per person per meal you get an excellent experience. In Europe I have spent easily that much or more many times - and been disappointed more often than not.

Tipping as a practice is uncomfortable for some people, on both sides of the transaction, but on the other hand, the people who are familiar with and comfortable with the practice of tipping find it works very well. On both sides of the transaction.

Next time you find a restaurant you like, show your appreciation with a good tip, and see how much more you come to enjoy that restaurant in the future. I believe you will see that people who work for tips work harder. And in truth, I find dining to be a better experience in the U.S. than elsewhere because of the tipping system.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old March 7th, 2010, 02:48 PM
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Paul,

No, I have not been to Europe yet.

And I agree that those who get tips obviously will work hard if they know their will get better tips. That is, unless the person is someone who doesn't know what a good tip is.

I always leave good tips (20% for good service) as I know how hard they work.

My point is just that it should be the employer who pays them a good enough salary, and no tips are necessary, unless the customer feels like it.

It's a matter of who is paying the person's salary and it should be the employer, not the customer through tips.

If I were a waitress (and I did a brief stint as one in college) then I'd prefer to know I got a salary based on my work and not hav eto wonder whetger the current table was going to be filled with good tippers, bad tippers or those who don't tip at all.

I do customer service as a Support Manager and I don't get tips based on how well I'm helping a client. I'm going my jobl I'm expected to do my best for everyone, and I do that. Based on feedback from clients, I get good raises every year. So a waitress (other service person) should also get feedback from the customer that governs the raise their boss (the restaurant) gives them.

As a waitress, my job was to take orders accurately, place the order at the kitchen, and deliver the order when it was done, giving the right order to the right person, bringing condiments and other things they asked for, and getting them the check when they indicated tey were ready for it. I was cheerful and helpful, period, that was my job. I did it well. I should have earned a decent hourly rate and not have had to depends on the whims of the customers for tips. In fact I would have preferred knowing I was getting a good wage no matter now well I served the food,; if I did a bad job, I would lose my job (feedback cards from the customers). If I consistently did a good job, I'd would have liked to see that reflected in a $1-2 an hour raise.

Raise the cost to the customer, whatever, at least the waitress would be guaranteed a better wage.

The burden of directly paying an employee, in theory, should fall on the employer; the customer pays higher costs to cover this. No one has to worry about leaving tips.













Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter View Post
Michelle - have you ever dined in Europe? It is not common to leave tips in Europe because the wage of the server is built into the cost of the meal.

Personally, I find the service and even preparation of food to be much costlier and less impressive in your "average" restaurant in Europe than in America, by far.

Put another way - I have chosen to dine in several restaurants in Europe to try the local food, and I almost always walk away feeling I didn't really enjoy the meal and it was too expensive. Of course there are exceptions to this, but in America anytime you pay about $15-25 per person per meal you get an excellent experience. In Europe I have spent easily that much or more many times - and been disappointed more often than not.

Tipping as a practice is uncomfortable for some people, on both sides of the transaction, but on the other hand, the people who are familiar with and comfortable with the practice of tipping find it works very well. On both sides of the transaction.

Next time you find a restaurant you like, show your appreciation with a good tip, and see how much more you come to enjoy that restaurant in the future. I believe you will see that people who work for tips work harder. And in truth, I find dining to be a better experience in the U.S. than elsewhere because of the tipping system.
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Carnival Imagination w/mom: 03/22/10 - 03/26/10
Carnival Sensation w/son: 07/29/07 - 08/02/07
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