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Old May 27th, 2009, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Ron
I don't pretend to have the answers as to why people OB on a ship. Some may be suicides but in my own opinion, most just don't realize the danger they're in when they start acting silly, such as having a little " thingee"on a balcony rail, climbing about on the rails,, life boats, etc. and doing a myriad of other things that common sense should tell them not to do.
I would also have to think that alcohol plays a very big part in this sort of senseless activity.
It's sad--no doubt but it's something that's preventable and in my opinion, people normally get what they are asking for.
Just yesterday 2 were killed in my home county in a car wreck. A few days ago, 2 more --a few weeks prior, another and so on and so it goes. Speed and alcohol figured into most. Figure up how many people are killed on the highways in one days time in the U.S. and the very small number of people that go off a ship , compared to how many cruise in a year, pales in comparison so much that there is no comparison.
Keep thy feet on the deck and thy arse won't floppith over the rail!
Oh, Ron...KEEP THY FEET ON THE DECK AND THY ARSE WON'T FLOPPITH OVER THE RAIL........KEEP THY TONGUE IN THY MOUTH AND THY CHEEKS WON'T BURN................I'll bet you can say it better than I just did. If you can, tell me, so I can file it away for next August. I flapped my tongue at children, thinking I was teaching them how to behave honorably, forgetting that many American parents no longer believe in pain, as in painfully hard work, nor do they believe in making their children work hard at school. (That is a run-on sentence, and I'm an English teacher!) I flapped my tongue, forgetting that this is the Age of Entitlement.

Ron, you are a sage.....please tell me to keep my mouth shut in a sentence that sings like your "arse" one!

Take care all.....
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Old May 27th, 2009, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
This is a smart group. You all read the same media reports and figured out it was a suicide just based on the lack of more important details.

Such as... why did the parents only ask for privacy, if it was an accident they would have called for the FBI and an investigation.

I also think you are smart to intuit that there may have been some showing off here. I think a lot of the younger peiople who go OB actually think it is easily survivable.

But the truth is that a ship cannot slow down and turn around that fast. Even more important, with ANY kind of even vaguely rough seas with any whitecaps at all you cannot see a person out at sea. The tiniest winf can make whitecaps just a few inches high, but that is enough to make every single whitecap indistiguishable from a person trying the splash, wave and yell at a cruise ship.

The fact that so few jumpers are ever found is evidence of this.

What really irritates me is that the media does not provide MORE details. Then fewer people would jump, Like did they throw liferings? Could they see him in the water. If you saw someone fall you would remember every detail.

If you threw a lifering it would at least sort of mark where the kid was.

I am personally just so mad at the lazy, sensationalistic mainstream media these days I am steaming.
Me, too, Paul. I teach school, and it seems that the media jump on every negative thing about schools. Principals are so terrified about a parent's accusation of some wrong doing....that it would appear on the front page....and it would, believe me, it would.....that they don't correct kids about things that are terrible.

I go to city council meetings, and the media jump on everything controversial, calling councilmembers that they know disagree with each other, just stirring up strife.


I would hate to be a journalist, because they have to make a living too....but it's awful to know they will print everything. I steam often when reading the paper......but, to tell the truth, and to tell the other side (I think I'm cooling down a little)...I enjoy reading our local paper much more than I steam. Thanks, y'all, for letting me vent.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 03:58 PM
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Sad thing is the media seems focused on the negative news and not the positive. I know negative news is still news, but for God sake man, balance it out.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 07:11 PM
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It's just human nature to want to hear the bad things. We have approx.
10% unemployment in this country but you never hear the media say there's approx. 90% of the people still working. That doesn't sound as dire as saying unemployment is at 10%!
If a ship has some sort of outbreak of illness that effects 100 people, the media reports that but doesn't say that the other 2900 didn't have a problem.
I don't have a problem with the media reporting the news. I have a problem with the way it's slanted to sway public opinion.

Sage??? ME??? You're kidding. I commend you for being a teacher and don't see how anyone can do it for any length of time without saying or doing something they may regret, especially with parents today ready to pounce with both feet on any incident, real or perceived.
I have a son who is an administrator of a large school system and I know what teachers, principals, etc. have to put up with, believe me.
Sometimes you just have to bite your tongue and remember you can help MOST of the kids and that there are a few that you simply have to let nature take it's course on. Patience and cruising--that's the RX.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nurseypoo5
evidently there was a fight between him and his girlfriend.
I had to do xrays on a Marine who shot himself in the head because a girl refused him.


On a lighter note...
Many sayings here..."Women can't live with em' "and "theres always a woman to blame."

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Old May 27th, 2009, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
But the truth is that a ship cannot slow down and turn around that fast. Even more important, with ANY kind of even vaguely rough seas with any whitecaps at all you cannot see a person out at sea. The tiniest wind can make whitecaps just a few inches high, but that is enough to make every single whitecap indistiguishable from a person trying to splash, wave and yell at a cruise ship.
There is a significant amount of "suction" along the edge of a moving vessel that one would have to clear about 10-15 feet away from the edge of the vessel to avoid being pulled under. Falling would not accomplish that but jumping could.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave

Last year Carnival 1, RCI 0

2007 was a big year with CCL 7 and RCI 1

2006 CCL has 5 and RCI 4.
So did RCI institute some kind of policy change that might explain the drop in OB's from 06 to 08 ? Something CCL might take note of?

I can't imagine there is such a difference in the "behavior" of the folks who sail on RCI vs CCL, or would that play into the "party boat" mentality CCL seems to maintain.

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old May 27th, 2009, 09:52 PM
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What about "No woman is worth dying over"? Sort of a spin on the "No man is worth crying over" saying.
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil&Liz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
But the truth is that a ship cannot slow down and turn around that fast. Even more important, with ANY kind of even vaguely rough seas with any whitecaps at all you cannot see a person out at sea. The tiniest wind can make whitecaps just a few inches high, but that is enough to make every single whitecap indistiguishable from a person trying to splash, wave and yell at a cruise ship.
There is a significant amount of "suction" along the edge of a moving vessel that one would have to clear about 10-15 feet away from the edge of the vessel to avoid being pulled under. Falling would not accomplish that but jumping could.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave the Wave

Last year Carnival 1, RCI 0

2007 was a big year with CCL 7 and RCI 1

2006 CCL has 5 and RCI 4.
So did RCI institute some kind of policy change that might explain the drop in OB's from 06 to 08 ? Something CCL might take note of?

I can't imagine there is such a difference in the "behavior" of the folks who sail on RCI vs CCL, or would that play into the "party boat" mentality CCL seems to maintain.

Phil & Liz
I think the Carnival cruiser is a little more low brow than the RCI cruiser. I shouldn't say that on the Carnival board but I have cruise both and there is a difference.

Seems the Carnival cruiser has more tattoos, smokes more and drinks more. But I am just sayin'......
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Old May 27th, 2009, 10:53 PM
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That is why they are called Fun Ships.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 12:22 AM
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I just can't help but jump in here. Carnival has 50% or more of the cruise ships out there. BUT they only have 35% of the OB's. Now, to me, that would mean that Carnival has less OB's per ship than other lines!!!

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old May 28th, 2009, 01:45 AM
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35% of the overboards is actually a majority, as the other 65% is distributed between the other 13 cruise lines. Even distributed evenly that is only 5% per line. True numbers will likely be between 0% and 15% per line other than Carnival.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suedue
I just can't help but jump in here. Carnival has 50% or more of the cruise ships out there. BUT they only have 35% of the OB's. Now, to me, that would mean that Carnival has less OB's per ship than other lines!!!

Smitty
Carnival has 23 ships and RCI has 21 and RCI carries more passengers with 5 Voyager class and 3 Freedom class being larger than anything Carnival has. I am not talking about other Carnival owned lines. Add in Cunard, Princess, HAL, Costa, ect... and the number goes up.

They have 35 of the OB's NOT 35%. They have almost half of cruise ship OB's if you take out the Ferries.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
I think the Carnival cruiser is a little more low brow than the RCI cruiser. I shouldn't say that on the Carnival board but I have cruise both and there is a difference.

Seems the Carnival cruiser has more tattoos, smokes more and drinks more. But I am just sayin'......
ROFL ... at least RCI Cruisers like to think so.

RCI has more aesthetically pleasing ships, but the same trashy customers like us.

In my own experience with numerous cruises on both lines I've seen more "falling down drunks" on my RCI cruises. OK, I may have to admit I didn't see their tatoos when they hit the floor. They must have been better dressed.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 11:49 AM
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Kuki,

You know me by now. You have to take what I say with a grain of sand.

I am just trying to find a reason that Carnival cruisers are so much more likely to OB. And you can't say because they have so many more ships or passengers. They have more OB's than any other line by far. It has to have something to do with the demographics
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Old May 28th, 2009, 01:58 PM
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My 2 cents.... Its the cost.

The OB's who have decided to part this world by going via balcony pay less on Carnival then any other cruise line. So they aren't spending as much for the priviledge.

The OB's who stand on chairs on thier balconies and do a slip OPPSY also chose Carnival because of price.

The OB's who where "pushed" over the side, thats the pushers way of saving money.

IMO... Its economics.
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Old May 28th, 2009, 02:07 PM
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You may be right Dina. I wonder the ratio of balcony jumpers to open deck jumpers is. Seems balcony jumpers would be more likely alone or fighting with cabin mate. Open deck jumpers climbing on rails showing off or something. Fantasy class ships only have a few balconies but have had many OB's.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 09:44 PM
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my son and i returned from this cruise today and we were about 50 feet from where the boy went over. we heard that his girlfriend had broken up with him, but she was out there with other friends when it happened. it was not in a dark or secluded area. they were standing by the railing and we were sitting at a table. we could hear them laughing and someone doing "bird calls" (ca- caaah) and my nephew was doing it back and forth with them. it sounded as if they were cutting up to us, then suddenly a girl screamed "Bruce". he had taken his shoes off and we were wondering if perhaps he was standing on the rails just playing and perhaps trying to make her nervous. we were going about 70 or 80 mph and it was pitch black in the water. the rails are not high at all and a small child could even squeeze between them. but it was a terrible time. i can't believe some of the posts i have read regarding this. my son is 18 and also just graduated and my heart bleeds for this boys family. if he was cutting up, drinking, if it was an accident, or if he did it on purpose it doesnt matter. a precious child with his entire life ahead of him is gone. nothing left for his family to bury or say final goodbyes or that they love him. it was a PERSON! to criticize him in any way is appalling!
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Old May 30th, 2009, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
This is a smart group. You all read the same media reports and figured out it was a suicide just based on the lack of more important details.

Such as... why did the parents only ask for privacy, if it was an accident they would have called for the FBI and an investigation.

I also think you are smart to intuit that there may have been some showing off here. I think a lot of the younger peiople who go OB actually think it is easily survivable.

But the truth is that a ship cannot slow down and turn around that fast. Even more important, with ANY kind of even vaguely rough seas with any whitecaps at all you cannot see a person out at sea. The tiniest winf can make whitecaps just a few inches high, but that is enough to make every single whitecap indistiguishable from a person trying the splash, wave and yell at a cruise ship.

The fact that so few jumpers are ever found is evidence of this.

What really irritates me is that the media does not provide MORE details. Then fewer people would jump, Like did they throw liferings? Could they see him in the water. If you saw someone fall you would remember every detail.

If you threw a lifering it would at least sort of mark where the kid was.

I am personally just so mad at the lazy, sensationalistic mainstream media these days I am steaming.


as i said, we were about 50 feet on the same side of the boat further down from him. we heard them cutting up and then a girl screamed,"Bruce!". just moments later we saw a light in the water (i was videoing at the time) and they gave the "Bravo" announcement. they did throw the light in to try to mark the spot as they stopped, they did throw out life rings, and they did lower one of the boats to look for him. but if he fell directly over we were going so fast i would think he would have been pulled under the boat. either way, they did EVERYTHING they possibly could have to find him. the staff was extraordinary. but it was incredibly dark and by the time the coast guard arrived it was surely too late although we stayed there for about 5 hours to help the coast guard search. BTW, the coast guard had already come to the ship once. a man had a heart attack and we heard he died as well. then we had to stop again on the way home for a boat that had capsized but no one was on board.
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:04 PM
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Thanks for the reply stephs. When the ship turned around did it go to about the wherever the light and life-rings that had been thrown overboard were to be found? had they drifted? Did you get any sense at all what they were trying to accomplish to find the young man?
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Old May 30th, 2009, 11:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colorcrazie
I made a father furious once because I stopped his 2 young boys from climbing the deck railing at the aft of the ship. No one else was around, so I stopped them. I didn't yell at them, just had them get down, then look at how far down the water was and explained....with a tiny bit of embellishment....what could happen. Dad showed up and yelled at me. I refused to apologize to the idiot.
Marty
good for you. The man should thank you for attempting to save his foolish sons.
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Old May 31st, 2009, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephsw5
we were going about 70 or 80 mph and it was pitch black in the water.
Conversion table for knots to miles per hour
KTS to MPH 5 Knots = 5.8 MPH
10 Knots = 11.5 MPH
15 Knots = 17.3 MPH
20 Knots = 23.0 MPH
25 Knots = 28.8 MPH
30 Knots = 34.6 MPH
35 Knots = 40.3 MPH
40 Knots = 46.1 MPH
45 Knots = 51.8 MPH

Likely the ship was doing 18-20 knots.

No cruise ship is doing 70-80 mph !!

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Old May 31st, 2009, 05:09 PM
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I am leaving for my cruise on Thursday and I am not bringing my 12 year old son who is autistic because of this reason!! I would be terrified the whole time that he would want to "swim in the water"!
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brendaintexas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron
I don't pretend to have the answers as to why people OB on a ship. Some may be suicides but in my own opinion, most just don't realize the danger they're in when they start acting silly, such as having a little " thingee"on a balcony rail, climbing about on the rails,, life boats, etc. and doing a myriad of other things that common sense should tell them not to do.
I would also have to think that alcohol plays a very big part in this sort of senseless activity.
It's sad--no doubt but it's something that's preventable and in my opinion, people normally get what they are asking for.
Just yesterday 2 were killed in my home county in a car wreck. A few days ago, 2 more --a few weeks prior, another and so on and so it goes. Speed and alcohol figured into most. Figure up how many people are killed on the highways in one days time in the U.S. and the very small number of people that go off a ship , compared to how many cruise in a year, pales in comparison so much that there is no comparison.
Keep thy feet on the deck and thy arse won't floppith over the rail!
Oh, Ron...KEEP THY FEET ON THE DECK AND THY ARSE WON'T FLOPPITH OVER THE RAIL........KEEP THY TONGUE IN THY MOUTH AND THY CHEEKS WON'T BURN................I'll bet you can say it better than I just did. If you can, tell me, so I can file it away for next August. I flapped my tongue at children, thinking I was teaching them how to behave honorably, forgetting that many American parents no longer believe in pain, as in painfully hard work, nor do they believe in making their children work hard at school. (That is a run-on sentence, and I'm an English teacher!) I flapped my tongue, forgetting that this is the Age of Entitlement.

Ron, you are a sage.....please tell me to keep my mouth shut in a sentence that sings like your "arse" one!

Take care all.....
I was just reading back over this thread, and was horror-struck to see my all caps, italics, and underlining. Please forgive me, all. I must have been very mad, but that's no excuse.....so sorry. Keep thy heavy finger off of the keyboard, Brenda!
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 03:26 PM
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What is it about people that they threaten to jump off something when things don't go their way with the opposite sex?
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad813
What is it about people that they threaten to jump off something when things don't go their way with the opposite sex?
I don't know. I usually use that opportunity to move on to someone new.

Or as Austin Powers said in the beginning of "The Spy Who Shagged Me" after Vanessa turned out to be a Fembot and blew up in the hotel room,

"My Vanessa, my bride, my one true love, the woman who taught me the true meaning of monogamy, was a Fembot all along......

Wait a tick! That means I'm single again "



as he dances naked through the hotel, down the elevator and joins the water ballet team in the pool.

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Old June 2nd, 2009, 04:00 PM
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Yah Baby!(couldn't resist) I guess some of us just have stronger wills than others, although I can certainly see the appeal of the Romeo & Juliet deal. It is one of my favorite plays after all.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:13 PM
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I was also onboard this ship. This is our 2nd cruise on the Fantasy. Only a suicidal or showoff person can "fall" overboard this ship. 60% of passengers were either high school grads or college grads. There were chaperones for the high schoolers. Most were being responsible but we did observe some cocky young men who managed to get their parent to purchase them alcohol and cigarettes. Staff would card them & turn them down. We had also heard that the young man who jumped had issues with his girlfriend and his parents. He was last seen by our dining party arguing with his father and saying "I'm outta here", when he left and the 'bravo' announcement aired about 15 mins later. We had also heard he had tried to take his life before. Witnesses say he left his shoes, emptied his pockets, jumped the rail and dove in head first. As soon as the 'bravo' call came the ship began turning (we're still in dining room) very hard. There was a salt activated float thrown in but was found 7 miles from the very point this kid jumped. The Lido deck is very high, the water is very deceiving from the deck since there's nothing to compare to, like a boat or a person in the water. At 9:45 at night you are only likely to see salt water splash at the side of the boat and NOTHING else, it's very dark. Once he went in he disappeared. We were going about 18-20 mph and the sea's were moving. Head first would be a tragedy! this very large cruise ship sat idle in the ocean with search lights trailing the water, the coast guard helicopter above us and lights from a c.g. boat further off. What a sad feeling to leave when the seach was over. We were 1 soul short.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:32 PM
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WOW! Quite a story! Very sad. I can only think of my own sons and thank God they are still with me.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 01:23 AM
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That is so sad...such a tragedy.
This poor chap was only 18? That isn't old enough to know much. The world has so much to offer past the age of 18. At that age I knew nothing for sure.
They say that suicide victims suffer from selfishness and if one thinks about it that is likely true. Just look how many people struggled to locate the young man with hope of saving his life.
Moral of story= There is good in the world but for some it's too late to discover that fact.
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Old June 5th, 2009, 08:57 PM
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NO won't be long until he sinks and you know what. I heard he had a fight with someone else over his girlfriend. We will hear all kinds of stories I guess. Sad sad. If he was that unstable to go over at this age - I better stop talking..sorry
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