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-   -   Violence in Mexico (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/carnival-cruise-lines/376582-violence-mexico.html)

sistagoldenhair August 31st, 2010 08:08 PM

Violence in Mexico
 
I just read todaythat a bar in Cancun was firebombed. I didnt think the drug violence would reach the tourist area's, but it looks like it has.

Will this affect which itinerary you choose when book your next cruise? I have 2 upcoming cruises with Mexican ports, after that, I think I'll stick with the Eastern islands.

Does Mexico have a civil war brewing? I don't know, but it seems like things down there are getting worse by the day.

zydecocruiser August 31st, 2010 09:24 PM

No. It was a locals bar late at night. I doubt any tourists go there.

lhp September 1st, 2010 09:15 AM

None of our cruises goes to Cancun.

Of course, it "can" happen anywhere....but Cozumel is an island and they work very hard to keep it safe.

They understand that this cruise industry is the economy's meat and potatoes and they aren't going to let anyone mess with that.

FirstCruise_1958 September 1st, 2010 09:29 AM

The truth
 
I too have been concerned as I will be in Mexico in a few weeks.

The other cruise boards (not cruisemates) keep erasing references to the violence.

The CURRENT news is that there have been multiple murders in Cozumel. Cancun, 45 miles from Cozumel, has had mass murders including tortures, hearts being ripped out of many people, etc. The attack yesterday resulted in 8 killed at a bar in Cancun. Mass graves have been found in caves near Cancun. U.S. officials have been murdered. 28,000 murders attributed to the current civil war over drugs and control of the country. The Cancun mayor recently arrested for drug corruption. Yesterday 10% of the entire Mexican police force was fired and more, many more, coming. The Wall Street Journal reported two days ago that those corrupt police (to the extent they have not already) will go to work for the drug lords. In short, there is a civil war and breakdown of security. The U.S. State Department has a strongly worded warning about being in Mexico and many U.S. families have been evacuated.

In short, those who talk about things being safe are not current on the realities or have a vested interest. Tourist areas are not only are not inherently immune, they are a target for those who want to ruin the economy so as to take over control of the government of Mexico.

We all need to keep each other informed and raise concerns so that we all are protected. The travel industry and the U.S. government may not do anything proactively. Note the World Trade events when (I was there for the first one) many knew that there was a high probability of a follow-up attack but failed to prevent it. Also, note Hurricane Katrina and how there was advance warnings but no government response even after many days/weeks/years.

I am not trying to spoil the party, but let us all make sure we are not having so much fun that we ignore the flames!

Master Chief September 1st, 2010 10:34 AM

FirstCruise 1958: Wise words indeed. Might I ask what your sources are? It seems you have good sources and intelligence on this subject. Would be nice to know what they are.

FirstCruise_1958 September 1st, 2010 11:48 AM

On details
 
Hi. The information is readily available on the internet and US State Department sites. Do a search with "mexico" in news site of Google or other browser.

I tried providing information and obtaining more at another cruise critic site, but they keep erasing the posts or threads and blocked me from accessing the blogs/posts. That site seems to be a company controlled or company friendly site where they prefer all communications be commercial in nature or "fun". But, for the rest of us, we scramble to get the rest of the story.

I just found a site that I am going to explore and it is called "cruisebruise". Apparently they maintain all of the negative information about cruising. Keep in mind that I have lived and traveled much since my first cruise in 1958. So, I am not trying to be an alarmist and I am not naive. But, I would like to be informed! Thanks.

Master Chief September 1st, 2010 12:05 PM

Thanks for the info. While I do trust (somewhat) the State Dept sites (I spent over 10 years with overseas embassies and they do sometimes have a hidden agenda in their postings) I am always leery of other sources. That's only because over the years I have been burned by somewhat loose info. You will also find that this board is very positive and all comments are accepted. Well, within some loosely defined guidelines :-) I guess we just have to be always vigilent of our surroundings when we travel.. Again, thanks for the info.

blueliner September 1st, 2010 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FirstCruise_1958 (Post 1314213)
I just found a site that I am going to explore and it is called "cruisebruise". Apparently they maintain all of the negative information about cruising. Keep in mind that I have lived and traveled much since my first cruise in 1958. So, I am not trying to be an alarmist and I am not naive. But, I would like to be informed! Thanks.

Paul Motter, the Cruisemates Site Editor, will be able to tell you much more about cruisebruise. However, I do know that cruisebruise is backed by anti-cruise industry lawyers who make a living sueing cruiselines. They clearly have an agenda with this site, so be very wary! I personally don't believe anything on it.

Bob M September 1st, 2010 12:28 PM

We are cruising on the Splendor on Nov. 28Th....
Mexican Riviera: Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan & Cabo San Lucas...
Any reports of problems on these ports??

Guess we could stay on board...
Bob

sistagoldenhair September 1st, 2010 01:03 PM

I'm sure the tourist area's are safe. Its just shocking to me how lawless some parts of Mexico are - and when CNN and MSNBC mentioned Cancun - it just rattled my nerves. It was easier for me to belive the vilolence was "in the other part" of Mexico and not be concerned. I hope the tourist industry is not affacted. I know "bad" things can and do happen anywhere. I was just wondering what other cruisers thought about it. Maybe I should change my name to "worrywart" :)

Bob M September 1st, 2010 01:36 PM

We have been at these Ports before on the Splendor & had no problems at any of the ports...
IF you wander off the main areas then you may have problems, BUT if you stay in the normal tourist traps then enjoy...
I am sure the Carnival would change a port that might cause harm to the passengers...

FirstCruise_1958 September 1st, 2010 02:51 PM

Suspected drug hitmen killed four men on the Mexican resort of Cozumel
 
I found the news story on Reuters at Drug violence hits Mexican resort of Cozumel | Reuters. Wife tells me when we go to Cozumel in a few days that she wants to stay on the ship because of the violence and threats in Mexico. I am willing to venture out, but I believe that I am playing the odds of being one or two people in many thousands. So, unless terrorists attack the ships or poison the passengers, our risk is not zero but maybe not 100 per cent either. But, I am going to watch the REAL news closely and if there is much more escalation, we are canceling and booking a cruise somewhere else.

katlady September 1st, 2010 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob M (Post 1314222)
We are cruising on the Splendor on Nov. 28Th....
Mexican Riviera: Puerto Vallarta, Mazatlan & Cabo San Lucas...
Any reports of problems on these ports??

Guess we could stay on board...
Bob

Someone dropped some grenades at a puerto vallarta bar. This was an accident, how can I be sure. Well the people most severely injury were the guys with the grenades. Here is an article on it. They do have armed guards at the pier to protect the cruise passengers. I went there in May and had no issues. However, still be careful, but don't panic and not go. Mexico is also a nice place to visit. I love Medano Beach in Cabo San Lucas it is a very short water taxi ride from the ship and you stay in a tourist area. Mazatlan you can go to the golden zone for shopping. Puerto Vallarta the malecon area is a short cab ride and the walk along the boardwalk is worth it. Bring small bills for tips. There are artist that do beautiful sand sculptures. Just do as the US state dept suggests and don't wave large sums of money around. Don't wear flashy and expensive clothes. These things make you a target. The pictures are from my cruise on the Splendor from May 2, 2010.
Grenade In Puerto Vallarta Bar An 'Accident': Mexican Governor : The Two-Way : NPR

Here is the travel warnings on State Departments website.
Mexico
Mexico Travel Alert
Mexico
This is also from the US state Department's website and it is very good advice.
Quote:

Personal Safety: Visitors should be aware of their surroundings at all times, even when in areas generally considered safe. Women traveling alone are especially vulnerable and should exercise caution, particularly at night. Victims, who have almost always been unaccompanied, have been raped, robbed of personal property, or abducted and then held while their credit cards were used at various businesses or Automatic Teller Machines (ATMs). Travelers should avoid any overt displays of wealth such as showing money, wearing flashy jewelry, driving expensive automobiles, etc. U.S. citizens should be very cautious in general when using ATMs in Mexico. If an ATM must be used, it should be accessed only during the business day at large protected facilities (preferably inside commercial establishments, rather than at glass-enclosed, highly visible ATMs on streets). U.S. and Mexican citizens are sometimes accosted on the street and forced to use their ATM cards to withdraw money from their accounts. Travelers to remote or isolated hunting or fishing venues should be aware that they may be some distance from ATMs, appropriate medical services and law enforcement or consular assistance in an emergency.


zydecocruiser September 1st, 2010 04:50 PM

I never pay attention to alarmists - just a different form of terrorist as far as I'm concerned.

It was a locals bar in the middle of the night and there had already been issues with some bandidos.

I'll be in Progreso and Cozumel in a few days. No worries, no problemo.

katlady September 1st, 2010 08:35 PM

There are places in the USA I would not go for fear of being killed. Bayview hunters point California is one of them.

DeepSpace September 2nd, 2010 12:50 AM

FirstCruise 1958 thank you for that information. We travel to Mexico all the and I had not heard that type of information, I will check from now. Thanks again.

Ine September 2nd, 2010 06:39 AM

The granede incident in P. Vallarta was just that. A stupid men bringing a grenade (not granedes) to a "sleezy"bar. Wanted to show this to his friends, and it went off. No tourists will ever come to that bar anyway.

Apart from that the drugsproblems are mainly in the borderareas, not in the touristic areas around the Mexican Riviera. Of course all tourists worldwide (not just in Mexico) have to pay attention whre to go and what to do.

I am sometimes surprised by reactions of people not realising that many of their own hometowns are sometimes more dangerous...
Read the recently published article in "the Economist

Mexico: Mexico: safer than Canada | The Economist

Manuel September 2nd, 2010 07:18 AM

You can certainly cruise to Mexico, but I would not venture too far away from the ship.

The violence in Mexico is increasing and their law enforcement is in shambles.

I personally would feel much safer in Canada.

TM

sistagoldenhair September 2nd, 2010 09:22 AM

I know bad things can happen in anyone's home town - I posted the question to see if cruisers would alter there island choices due to the increased violence in Mexico.

It is obviously a personal choice where you choose to vacation - and my choice is to not include Mexico in any future trips until things calm down.

katlady September 2nd, 2010 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sistagoldenhair (Post 1314394)
I know bad things can happen in anyone's home town - I posted the question to see if cruisers would alter there island choices due to the increased violence in Mexico.

It is obviously a personal choice where you choose to vacation - and my choice is to not include Mexico in any future trips until things calm down.

Your thread has made people more informed about Mexico and travel in general. That is a very good thing. My Mexican Riveria cruise two of my tablemates were afraid to get off the ship in Mexico because of Violence. I told them to get off the ship, just use caution. They did and had a great time. So I would not alter my island choices do to increased violence in Mexico. Most of the violence occurring in Mexico is near the boarder due to drug running in the area. I still think you should understand the culture and crime in any country you are visiting.

Ine September 2nd, 2010 12:47 PM

Just read another interesting posting about Mexico:
Opening our eyes to the real Mexico | News for Dallas, Texas | Dallas Morning News | Columnist Steve Blow | Dallas-Fort Worth News

Master Chief September 2nd, 2010 02:23 PM

Ine,

As usual your post points out that there are two sides to every story. In this case, the media (alarmist in nature) and those actually living in Mexico. Just as not every teenager is a "hood and bum" not every Mexican is a terrorist. I hope they get this violence under control soon so peaceful folks can get on with their lioves. Thanks for the article.

reverendjeff September 2nd, 2010 06:04 PM

If you wait till things "calm down" you may never go to Mexico. Are they experiencing more violence today than before? Maybe, if you are not including historical Mexico. The port towns are generally safe.

sistagoldenhair September 3rd, 2010 12:02 PM

Thats a good question Rev - I do belive there is more violence there today than there was before. Or, maybe its just like a lot of other bad things, it was always there but just more visiable now because of increased media attention?? It could acually be worse than is being reported. How many incidents are there that do not get news coverage?

Either way, it has made me more aware of the potential dangers. Its sad the hard working people of Mexico have to suffer under the black cloud that this drug violence has brought. I love Mexico and hope the lawful citizens can get control back.

Ron September 3rd, 2010 11:42 PM

Sista, I agree with you that things in Mexico has probably gotten worse and on top of that, the media coverage has increased in spreading the news re / the violence, etc.
I also hope the people and Gov. of Mexico can re-gain control but in all honesty, what about here at home? I live in a city of a little less than 300,000 people and everyday it's on the news about robberies, shootings, muggings, rape, etc. and that's just my little kingdom. Take the whole U.S.A. and on any given day, we are usually the most violent nation in the world.
Crime has spread to most everywhere and what it will take to stop it is anyone's guess. Probably will only get worse.
I've cruised about 35 times or so, never had anything stolen,. never had a problem anywhere that I know of but right here in my own house a couple of weeks ago I had some people doing some drywall work and under my very nose one guy stole over $30,000 in jewelry. My wife is in the jewelry business and had accumulated many pieces over the past 35 years and now a lot of it's gone-- pawned, sold as scrap gold, etc. The thief is in jail, and has confessed that he stole from us , as well as other people he had done work for but that doesn't help get back our things, some of which belonged to our deceased parents. It's been a nightmare trying to see exactly what was taken, checking all the pawn shops, dealing with the police, etc, all because I wasn't vigilant enough to watch every move they made.
The next time anyone comes into my home to do any work, carpet cleaning, or what every, I'll be like bark on a tree to them with my Beretta in my pocket.
So, the point is unfortunately, crime is everywhere and can happen to anyone at anytime.
I'm off on a cruise in a couple weeks and one port is one of my favorites, Cozumel so hopefully there won't be any problems, unless I get drunk at Margaritaville and start a fight !! :wink: :wink: :wink:

ruthlessboss September 4th, 2010 02:11 PM

don't worry so much
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron (Post 1314767)
Sista, I agree with you that things in Mexico has probably gotten worse and on top of that, the media coverage has increased in spreading the news re / the violence, etc.
I also hope the people and Gov. of Mexico can re-gain control but in all honesty, what about here at home? I live in a city of a little less than 300,000 people and everyday it's on the news about robberies, shootings, muggings, rape, etc. and that's just my little kingdom. Take the whole U.S.A. and on any given day, we are usually the most violent nation in the world.
Crime has spread to most everywhere and what it will take to stop it is anyone's guess. Probably will only get worse.
I've cruised about 35 times or so, never had anything stolen,. never had a problem anywhere that I know of but right here in my own house a couple of weeks ago I had some people doing some drywall work and under my very nose one guy stole over $30,000 in jewelry. My wife is in the jewelry business and had accumulated many pieces over the past 35 years and now a lot of it's gone-- pawned, sold as scrap gold, etc. The thief is in jail, and has confessed that he stole from us , as well as other people he had done work for but that doesn't help get back our things, some of which belonged to our deceased parents. It's been a nightmare trying to see exactly what was taken, checking all the pawn shops, dealing with the police, etc, all because I wasn't vigilant enough to watch every move they made.
The next time anyone comes into my home to do any work, carpet cleaning, or what every, I'll be like bark on a tree to them with my Beretta in my pocket.
So, the point is unfortunately, crime is everywhere and can happen to anyone at anytime.
I'm off on a cruise in a couple weeks and one port is one of my favorites, Cozumel so hopefully there won't be any problems, unless I get drunk at Margaritaville and start a fight !! :wink: :wink: :wink:

Listen to your local news about local crime as this poster said. Crime of various types has always existed, but the news media now grabs onto anything and sensationalize it. Here in central Florida the media is thrilled to sensationalize. They even get excited if we are due for a thunderstorm. If one tree falls down, it makes the news making you think there had been a disaster everywhere.
Enjoy your cruise ports, it's not likely anything will happen in the crime line.

Catherinelady September 4th, 2010 03:06 PM

Yes, I would never go to Mexico on a cruise or otherwise, let them have it!

Ron September 4th, 2010 03:47 PM

If I may please add to this-- when you have someone in your house, such as a repairman, plumber, carpet cleaner, etc, DO NOT take for granted they are honest. If some one is in your home, regardless of how uncomfortable you may make them feel,, stick close, keep your eyes and ears open.
It only takes an instant for someone to steal something like a gun or jewelry that's easily put into a pocket, tool bag, etc.
Just be aware that it CAN happen to you in your own home!
Hopefully my loss and my posting this will make all ,or at least some,to be more alert when and if you do have someone in your home.

graphicguy September 6th, 2010 07:50 PM

Yeah..."cruisebruise" site is fairly well known as being totally anti-cruise industry.

Another part of that article that wasn't posted...

"....the murder rate of 2 per 100,00 in Yucatán, the Gulf of Mexico state known for its beaches and Mayan ruins, was comparable to Wyoming and Montana."

I travel a whole lot, too. I'm not a paranoid person. Not saying the articles are written by people who are paramoid. But, I think there's a lot of sensationalism regarding these Cancun/Cozumel stories.....most probably planted with the news aggregators (and subsequently picked up by mainstream news agencies.

If they can get just one major cruise line WEB site (like this one), they have been successsful.

ANGSWIN September 11th, 2010 01:50 PM

Cozumel was a port on our last cruise. We actually took the ship's excursion to the mainland to visit the ruins at Tulum. We felt very safe and secure. However, I don't think that I would have wanted to do it on my own.


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