Jones Act Question

[Snoozeman]

Originally Posted by Paul Motter

I am not an expert in PVSA, but I have to disagree with some of what I have read here.

First, while the law does "say" distant foreign port it is obvious they have accepted Ensenada, Nassau and Vancouver as being "far enough" -otherwise every cruise from the mainland to Hawaii would have to stop in Kiribati, and every Caribbean cruise would have to go to Europe.

Secondly, when you you do two cruises in a row you are doing two different cruises, not one cruise. If you get off and go through customs and then reboard everything should be fine.

Paul, I used to think the same thing and learned that is not correct. Your first paragraph is true ONLY for 'closed loop cruises', but NOT for cruises beginning and ending in two different ports. The second is incorrect if the original embark and final debark are in two different US ports. It doesn't matter if there are 2 or 3 cruises in between or even if you change ships..it's a violation.

I think even Trackpup will agree to these two points.

[Kamloops Cruiser]

The issue is on some cruises that stop in Vancouver in the spring and fall

passengers aren't required to go thru Canadian or US untill they disembark at

the end of the cruise.

[Snoozeman]

Actually I think Trackpup and I agree on everything except the Panama canal part....A Panama Canal cruise on it's own is fine, but when there is a continuation that makes it a 'gray' area. The debark for the canal cruise could be considered an embark for the continuation cruise and when it then terminates in a different US port you have then violated the PVSA. If someone wants to make a point that it is just one cruise and not two then I can see that argument, but that is very iffy. It looks like some cruise lines may allow it. As I have said many times, I think violations happen much more than we know.

[Paul Motter]

Okay...

I can admit I am wrong. I did not realize closed loop cruise are an exception to the PVSA rule. (I never heard that)

I also never heard that "closed loop" includes Seattle, but it does.

[Snoozeman]

That's it basically...closed loop cruises still have to stop at a foreign port, it just doesn't have to be 'distant' foreign port.

[Snoozeman]

Maybe someone can write a story on Fox that we need to change these antiquated rules. It really can be done easily as for the cruise part. They have already split the PVSA portion into I think they call it 'coastal waterways' section so it is separate from all other transport including air restrictions.

It would open up a lot of great cruise opportunities.

[HawkeyeFLA]

Originally Posted by Paul Motter

I am not an expert in PVSA, but I have to disagree with some of what I have read here.

First, while the law does "say" distant foreign port it is obvious they have accepted Ensenada, Nassau and Vancouver as being "far enough" -otherwise every cruise from the mainland to Hawaii would have to stop in Kiribati, and every Caribbean cruise would have to go to Europe.

Secondly, when you you do two cruises in a row you are doing two different cruises, not one cruise. If you get off and go through customs and then reboard everything should be fine.

Paul, my reading of a few things on PVSA makes note of the difference between Near and Far ports. On a closed loop cruise, a call at a near port is sufficient. So if you go from LA to Hawaii, calling on Ensenada satisfies the law as long as you're coming back to LA. Getting off in Hawaii would not cut it. The PC cruise I am aiming for in December calls on Cartagena to satisfy the distant port requirement.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Originally Posted by Fern

Quoting my own post here, unfortunately I'm right and so is Snoozeman. My wonderful TA spent an hour on the phone with Princess reps and came back with the same answer. We can sail from Anchorage to Vancouver and then sail from Vancouver to Ft. Lauderdale, but NOT on the same ship!

I haven't checked to see whether this will work or not with another ship, but so far it's really a PITA !

Thanks for the help,

Fern,

I gathered you are going on Princess. I am wondering what the itinerary is for the 2nd leg of the back to back cruise is.

What is the date and ship in question?

Bill

[Trackypup]

Originally Posted by Snoozeman

Paul, I used to think the same thing and learned that is not correct. Your first paragraph is true ONLY for 'closed loop cruises', but NOT for cruises beginning and ending in two different ports. The second is incorrect if the original embark and final debark are in two different US ports. It doesn't matter if there are 2 or 3 cruises in between or even if you change ships..it's a violation.

I think even Trackpup will agree to these two points.

We almost agree I believe you can change ships. The same VESSEL cannot deliver you from one US port to another. But let's not even go there!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Originally Posted by Trackypup

We almost agree I believe you can change ships. The same VESSEL cannot deliver you from one US port to another. But let's not even go there!

You are correct. Once you change ships there is no violation.

Bill

[Snoozeman]

Originally Posted by Trackypup

We almost agree I believe you can change ships. The same VESSEL cannot deliver you from one US port to another. But let's not even go there!

If that's the case...... (and that's if..I have been told different, but i tend to agree with you on the single vessel) ....then a clever person may be able to do a work around get a pretty cool itinerary. Probably have to work with a port that has multiple cruise lines.

[Trackypup]

Originally Posted by Snoozeman

If that's the case...... (and that's if..I have been told different, but i tend to agree with you on the single vessel) ....then a clever person may be able to do a work around get a pretty cool itinerary. Probably have to work with a port that has multiple cruise lines.

I've read about people being escorted across Canada Place by Princess Staff to another Princess Ship. That would be what they'd do for a Whittler to LA or San Fran where there is no distant port involved. On the good side though, Vancouver gets most of the one way Hawaii traffic