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-   -   Arison resigning as CEO (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/carnival-cruise-lines/397237-arison-resigning-ceo.html)

felix_the_cat June 25th, 2013 02:42 PM

Arison resigning as CEO
 
I'm surprised there is no discussion on this here. From a TA point of view, yippee, from a passenger point of view - I would say the same and from a PR point of view - hoyrahh.

Aerogirl June 25th, 2013 02:56 PM

I think it's about time he went away as CEO, I wonder where they'll put him. Any info on who will be taking over for him?
I can only hope they make some changes to some of the cut back implemented under him.

Dave Beers June 25th, 2013 03:04 PM

Purely a symbolic move with a PR motive to improve public perception of the company. Arison is still Chairman Of The Board for Carnival Corporation. And to be clear, this is about Carnival Corporation and not Carnival Cruise Line. He is leaving his post as CEO of the parent corporation and turning it over to another board member. So instead of wearing two hats, Arison now wears one - the top one.

Gerry Cahill continues to be President and CEO of Carnival Cruise Line.

Aerogirl June 25th, 2013 03:43 PM

Just what we need Andrew Donald to take over the duties.
A Monsanto GMO monster.
This really gets me as I have been working against and protesting Monsanto for a while now , I can say this will make me not sail on Carnival after my December cruise.


Poop Cruise Claims Another Victim As Carnival Cruise CEO Agrees To Step Down ? Consumerist

felix_the_cat June 25th, 2013 07:33 PM

I know. But I do find it amusing. I only sell Carnival when I can't convince my clients to go elsewhere. This won't change that.

Aerogirl June 25th, 2013 07:42 PM

This is are last at least for awhile, we're ready to give a few other lines a try. I'm not loyal to any of them but a this point I've had my fill of Carnival for the time being.

Trip June 25th, 2013 10:41 PM

I think, the Concordia was a pr disaster and an insult to the way a ceo should handle such a serious disaster.

Then came the Triumph, another grossly mishandled situation. Having a reporter chasing a golf cart with exec fleeing the scene to avoid questions, is pathetic.


Showing the ceo smiling and enjoying a Heat game, while his passengers are suffering just capped a miserable 2 year history, in the life of Carnival.

Maybe the newly promoted "face" of Carnival, will show more compassion, and, step up to the plate when it counts.

Kuki June 25th, 2013 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix_the_cat (Post 1477204)
I know. But I do find it amusing. I only sell Carnival when I can't convince my clients to go elsewhere. This won't change that.

If that's truly how you do business, then, with all due respect, imho you're not very good at your job.

I don't thing agents should direct their clients to cruise line, but rather explain the options out there, without the biases.

zydecocruiser June 26th, 2013 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuki (Post 1477230)
If that's truly how you do business, then, with all due respect, imho you're not very good at your job.

I don't thing agents should direct their clients to cruise line, but rather explain the options out there, without the biases.

I'm glad someone else said it first. So glad I have a competent travel agent.

felix_the_cat June 26th, 2013 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuki (Post 1477230)
If that's truly how you do business, then, with all due respect, imho you're not very good at your job.

I don't thing agents should direct their clients to cruise line, but rather explain the options out there, without the biases.


I beg to differ - I believe that my clients should know everything and that includes how the big wigs handle disasters. Something Arnison is clueless about. I would be doing my clients a disservice if I did otherwise. I am very good at my job which is why I make damn sure my clients know about the reputation of the company they want to book with.

zydecocruiser June 26th, 2013 10:35 AM

All cruise lines sell illusions. They are all liars.

Kuki June 26th, 2013 10:45 AM

Quote:

I only sell Carnival when I can't convince my clients to go elsewhere
I never said people shouldn't be made aware of all of the facts. They should.

But you said you try to convince people not to cruise Carnival. So, are we to assume you "try to convince people not to cruise" Princess, HAL, Seabourn, or any of the Carnival Corporation brands? Mickey runs ALL of them.

That's a tough stance to take because then you trying to get your clients to avoid 50% of the cruise ships available.

felix_the_cat June 26th, 2013 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuki (Post 1477280)
I never said people shouldn't be made aware of all of the facts. They should.

But you said you try to convince people not to cruise Carnival. So, are we to assume you "try to convince people not to cruise" Princess, HAL, Seabourn, or any of the Carnival Corporation brands? Mickey runs ALL of them.

That's a tough stance to take because then you trying to get your clients to avoid 50% of the cruise ships available.


Wrong again. Do not misconstrue what I've said and try to make it suit you. I am talking Carnival Cruise Lines, not any of the others. The other companies do not follow the same ways of Carnival Cruise Lines. Carnival Cruise Lines have learned there is an error in their ways and are now trying to backtrack on the way they treat TA's (or so they say - I don't believe them.) They have lost a tremendous number of clients - through their own fault.

No, I sell the other corporate brands just fine, it's Carnival Cruise Lines that I have no use for. All I do, if they client doesn't already know, is point out how they treat people and the client makes their own decision. You may not agree, but I feel I owe them that information.

Paul Motter June 26th, 2013 01:09 PM

I will weigh in here - a lot has been said by cruise journalists and travel agents about "how Carnival operates."

A lot of assumptions have been made regarding changes in scheduling of regular maintenance on the ships. Some people have implied they know that Carnival cut back on regularly scheduled maintenance.

However - I wouldn't personally presume to know more about the cruise line fleet than the CEO himself knows. I doubt that any competent CEO would purposely take a chance on PR disasters like Triumph.

The fact that Carnival stepped up after the incident and agreed to spend $.5-billion to add spare generators to the entire fleet after the incident does not sound like a company that is only interested in making money now to me.

It is entirely possible that Carnival was just a victim of bad luck, and also under the press microscope for every little thing that could go wrong. Yes, Gerry Cahill did not handle Triumph well from a PR perspective, but that is different from saying they don't maintain their ships.

As for Micky, I think he was ready to lessen his responsibilities, at the burnout point, and the timing was right since he seemed to be a personal target for some senators, etc. Sometimes the public puts a person in a position where they can do no right, and little errors get magnified. I personally think it is anything but objective reporting to treat an individual that way, but it does attract an audience. People love to embarrass other people.

As for Felix - just like I wouldn't draw conclusions based upon appearances in the Carnival case, I also wouldn't do it for a travel agent. Felix knows his clientele the best, so let's not judge how he runs his business based solely upon what we think is proper. Not all TAs are the same.

Aerogirl June 26th, 2013 01:45 PM

It's true that the media really does keep such a close eye on Carnival and not so much the other lines. There is that site that shows all sea events and if you look there are quit a few more recent issues with the other lines that go unreported.

As for the part Felix said Carnival treats their passengers badly I'm not sure what he means. I have never been treated poorly by any staff member or by the line itself , I can only believe he means the inside workings of the company and the cuts that have been made in the MDR, production and such not personally mistreatment by staff.

zydecocruiser June 26th, 2013 01:52 PM

This thread is increasingly nonsensical and a crock that stinkith. THE CEO of Corporate has nothing to do with the operations of individual cruise lines.

Paul Motter June 26th, 2013 01:55 PM

Zyde...

Why so judgemental? Obviously the media and members of congress believed Arison was directly responsible for almost everything that happened aboard Triumph, and it is one of the cruise lines in his control, and also the one which made him his fortune and allowed him to buy the other lines. We are just discussing that aspect of this situation - I don't see that discussion as nonsensical at all.

But just to be clear, when I referenced the CEO of Carnival Cruise Lines I was referring to Gerry Cahill, not Arison. I think Arison fell on his sword for Cahill, in a way, in the sense that Carnival Cruise Line was drawing heat, but I still stand by my statement that I think it is presumptuous of any reporter to say they "know" what Cahill was thinking and that he purposely cut back on Carnival ship maintenance.

felix_the_cat June 26th, 2013 05:05 PM

Paul - just one small correction - I'm a she. My cat is Felix :mrgreen:

However, for the subject at hand, there were a lot of things done wrong and I do believe others such as RCL learned from them - hence the way the Grandeur fire was handled. The only complaint I heard from that was from someone (not my client) who was angry because he wasn't the first off the ship in Freeport because - A) he was Emerald and B) he was in a JS.

However, there are a lot of us TA's who won't deal with Carnival Cruiselines - the main reason being, they have their agents call our clients and tell them to cancel with us, they'll give them better service, cheaper prices etc etc. I have a client who is also a close friend. She likes to sail Carnival occasionally. Last November, when she was looking for a cruise, they called her 5 times in 2 days telling her she better book with them directly. Now, you would ban me from here if I told you what she told him.

Carnival has spent the last number of years trying to cut agents throats. Many many agents have walked away from them because of it. Now they want to come back to TA's. From my point of view, forget it.

Whether it was Arison or Cahill, doesn't really matter. Carnival is very unpopular and it will take them a long time to come back.

As for my clients, I will tell them the history and let them judge for themselves. Some still want to book Carnival, fine, but others change their minds and that's fine too.

As for Princess, HAL, I have lots of clients for those companies. Thank goodness they have been allowed to run themselves so to speak.

Mike L June 26th, 2013 05:30 PM

Carnival
 
Wow to all of this..but I am not nervous about our Carnival cruise coming up in August...the same corporation that puts Holland America to sea surely has the same corporte policy for all brands...especially when it comes to safety.

I am sure each brand has their own culture on how they treat their customers and TA's. So for me it is real simple...if I have a good experience I will return...if not...I won't.

Kuki June 26th, 2013 06:05 PM

I do not disagree that Carnival has dropped the ball in their handling of difficulties in the past year especially.

Just the week before last my blog discussed, and expanded on many of these exact points
http://www.cruisemates.com/articles/kukiside/URL

Felix, out of curiosity are you affiliated with American Express Travel?.. because that is one area I discussed in that blog.

I know Carnival has cut commissions, and that has put off a bunch of travel agents.

As far as Carnival PVPs attempting to steal customers from agents. I'm not happy this is still going on. Way back in 2010 I wrote a blog about this..

http://www.cruisemates.com/blog/201006081399/misleading-phone-call-carnival-personal-vacation-planner/

And Carnival responded directly saying that is not their policy.

Cruisemates Blog Carnival Responds To ?The Deceitful PVP? Blog ? Kuki
Guess they haven't explained their policies to their PVPs over the ensuing 3 years.:(

Now as far as how the cruise lines deal with problems; remember back to 2011... when a Carnival ship and an RCI ship were forced by port authorities to leave port in front of a coming hurricane?

To refresh... at the time I wrote this....
http://www.cruisemates.com/blog/201108302488/carnival-1royal-caribbean-0/

So, at different times all of the cruise lines do occasionally screw up in their reactions to problem events.

I do think after Concordia Carnival (and the industry) came under hyper-scrutiny any time anything happened. And Carnival has unfortunately had several incidents since then, and handled the situations and PR associated with them very badly.

So, Felix, if you read those blogs you'll find I agree with many of your "issues", and have been watching them pretty closely and reporting on them in my blogs for several years.... so I obviously too feel people should be informed.

I took exception with you saying you "try to convince people not to cruise Carnival". Customers should be informed, yes. But not directed to cruise lines the agents personally prefer. Rather they should be matched to cruise lines which best suit them.

Snoozeman June 26th, 2013 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuki (Post 1477230)
If that's truly how you do business, then, with all due respect, imho you're not very good at your job.

I don't thing agents should direct their clients to cruise line, but rather explain the options out there, without the biases.

Lot's of TA's doing the same and probably justified IMHO. Carnival is aware it is happening too.

felix_the_cat June 26th, 2013 07:19 PM

Kuki - perhaps my wording is a bit harsh. I don't feel you can really change anyone's mind if it is their cruiseline of choice, but I do believe each and everyone should be given the pros and cons of any cruiseline. And yes, I will say to anyone who wants to book Carnival, "are you sure that's what you want?" then proceed to tell them of the problems Carnival have had recently. I feel I owe it to my clients to do that.

As for the manner in which they treat TA's, no, they haven't reached their own people. We have one person in our office known as the "Carnival Queen". However she no longer books Carnival groups for the terrible lack of co-operation and the fact that Carnival has been calling her groups.

I also know some TA's that will refer people to other TA's rather than book Carnival.

I'm not affiliated with American Express in answer to your question.

I also see I don't have my Carnival cruise in my list - I've sailed them once, on the Triumph. I had a group of first timers.

Kuki June 26th, 2013 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snoozeman (Post 1477331)
Lot's of TA's doing the same and probably justified IMHO. Carnival is aware it is happening too.

I agree there's other TA's doing it, and I'm sure Carnival is aware, and likely expected the reaction when they dropped commissions.

I'm also sure that at the time they didn't expect the "incidents" they've had which gave those TAs fodder in a time where consumers are lacking confidence.

No doubt here's a reason they brought Bob back, and this recent big move to cozy back up with travel agents. No question they'll be around the country buying them lunches :)

I'd also bet some of those TAs were discounting from their own commissions when that was allowed.

I know Carnival's group departments, as well as other cruise lines, have become pretty hard to deal with as well.

Not easy being a travel agent for sure. But, I still prefer an agent who's more interested in the clients needs.

During 35 years in business, I had tons of changes in the industry, along with tons of headaches to accompany them. But my customers didn't care; they only wanted me to give them good product, with great service.

zydecocruiser June 27th, 2013 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Motter (Post 1477300)
Zyde...

Why so judgemental? Obviously the media and members of congress believed Arison was directly responsible for almost everything that happened aboard Triumph, and it is one of the cruise lines in his control, and also the one which made him his fortune and allowed him to buy the other lines. We are just discussing that aspect of this situation - I don't see that discussion as nonsensical at all.

But just to be clear, when I referenced the CEO of Carnival Cruise Lines I was referring to Gerry Cahill, not Arison. I think Arison fell on his sword for Cahill, in a way, in the sense that Carnival Cruise Line was drawing heat, but I still stand by my statement that I think it is presumptuous of any reporter to say they "know" what Cahill was thinking and that he purposely cut back on Carnival ship maintenance.

How is Arison in any way responsible?

On the myth of Carnival bringing back Uncle Bob, until recently Bob WAS still on the board of directors and was forced out. I think the same is likely true with Uncle Micky. Not for Triumph or any other incident but for lack of perceived independence,

Once Bob was forced out, he was then free to come back as a consultant, on a 1 year contract.

Micky is now free to pursue a basketball dynasty.

Aerogirl June 27th, 2013 09:35 AM

I have a question and the reason I'm asking is because I don't know.

Arison was CEO of Carnival Corp not the line itself and then there a numerous other cruise lines including Carnival owned by Carnival Corp. Each one of theses lines have their own CEO and are responsible for running their line.
However doesn't it all really go back to Carnival Corp ? The lines are just branches of the corporation, no? I would think the corporation gives them marks they must meet as far as spending and profits and then the CEO's find ways to meet their mark.
I hope I'm being clear and getting across my question.

Paul Motter June 27th, 2013 02:11 PM

AeroGirl....

Every company is different. Royal Caribbean keeps a tight rein on its Celebrity and Azamara brands.

But Arison and Carnival Corp. is different. They are actually quite well known for being extremely "hands-off" when it comes to their individual cruise lines.

Of course they dictate certain things, such as when they can buy fuel in bulk, etc. But otherwise they largely allow the cruise lines to make their own decisions.

If there is any one line where Arison is most closely affiliated it is Carnival, however, because that was his original company, the one he used to finance buying the rest.

zydecocruiser June 27th, 2013 04:05 PM

Carnival Corp expects a certain ROI from the individual cruise lines. It is mostly up to the individual lines how they meet that.

Aerogirl June 27th, 2013 04:05 PM

Ok thanks .


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