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  #31 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2003, 11:38 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Not the formal type

AR,

I'm not Norm, but to me it's clear that an RSVP that specifies "regrets only" means that regrets are perfectly OK.

Again, you are falling into the trap of a major misinterpretation when the rules of etiquette are quite clear. According to the rules of etiquette, it is never "proper" to send regrets to the captain while embarked aboard his ship. One sends regrets to the Captain only as a last resort if some circumstance makes it physically or morally impossible to accept the Captain's invitation.

Actually, I believe that anytime you see RSVP it means that it's OK to regret, because the purpose of the response that's being requested it to tell them whether or not you're coming.

That's true in general, but it has exceptions -- an invitation from a head of state, an invitatoin from the captain of a vessel while embarked therein, an invitation from the president of a university while a student or a member of the faculty thereof, one's commanding officer if a member of the armed forces, etc. In most cases, sending regrets to an invitation from one's boss is not exactly recommended, either!

Norm.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old May 30th, 2003, 11:41 PM
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Default Re: Re: Not the formal type

Seabee,

Maritime traditions add to the cruise experience and to ignore them means you will miss a wonderful part of the seagoing experience. You can call us stuffy or arrogant or aloof, but we shall enjoy the time honored traditions established through hundreds of years of sailing and we invite you all to join us.

Very well said! In fact, this bears repeating....

Maritime traditions add to the cruise experience and to ignore them means you will miss a wonderful part of the seagoing experience. You can call us stuffy or arrogant or aloof, but we shall enjoy the time honored traditions established through hundreds of years of sailing and we invite you all to join us.

BTW, do you suppose that we can convince Frommer's, Fodor's, Complete Idiot's Guide, et al, to add a chapter on maritme etiquette in their guides to cruise lines and cruise ships?

Norm.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old May 31st, 2003, 04:56 PM
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Default Re: Not the formal type

Norm, Thanks for the double quote...I don't know that I've ever been quoted once much less twice. Go back and check out Michelle's post. Her invitation was to dine with the Social Hostess not the Captain...therefore she di not commit a breach of etiquette. It is perfectly acceptable to decline an invitation by any of the staff other than the Captain.

PS...Norm love your REV 22:7
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old May 31st, 2003, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Not the formal type

Norm, Thanks for the double quote...I don't know that I've ever been quoted once much less twice. Go back and check out Michelle's post. Her invitation was to dine with the Social Hostess not the Captain...therefore she di not commit a breach of etiquette. It is perfectly acceptable to decline an invitation by any of the staff other than the Captain.

PS...Norm love your REV 22:17
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2003, 12:28 PM
AR
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Not the formal type

Norm

Apparantly you didn't read Michelle's post, to which I was replying. She was talking about an invitation from the social host, not from HM the Captain. It had an RSVP, and that quite obviously means it's OK to decline.

Or, if you believe that seagoing etiquette precludes declining an invitation from the social host, I'd be curious to know where you think the line is drawn.

Me, I have all the respect in the world for the Captain, and I'm happy to dress on formal night. And if I have nothing better to do I'm glad to have a drink with the Captain when he asks. But while you're right that I might think twice about declining dinner with my boss, the Captain is only my boss in matters of safety and policy aboard ship.

And if you really think that most captains enjoy schmoozing with the paying customers, you're quite wrong. As far back as the heyday of the liners there was a standing joke that there are three sides to the Captain's job: "the port side, the starboard side, and the social side. And the social side is by far the most disagreeable." It has been quoted often, most recently in my experience by John Maxtone-Graham in the lectures he did aboard Millennium the other week. I believe he attributed it originally to a Cunard Captain, but in any event he used it in the context of some comments about the traditional dislike on the part of many Captains for these social necessities that you hold so sacred.

And while it is fine for you to say that anybody who doesn't love wining and dining the hoardes should go work on tramp steamers, that's not realistic for a whole lot of reasons.

AR
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old June 4th, 2003, 07:47 PM
SteveD
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Default Re: Not the formal type

I'll be on the 11 day Galaxy cruise sailing June 9th. I'm paying a lot of money for this cruise and I'll eat where I please. There are 1800 other people on the ship and I'm sure I will not be missed if I decline.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old June 6th, 2003, 06:32 PM
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Default Re: Not the formal type

Steve,

You may certainly eat where you want altho I doubt regardlesss of how much you paid, you'll be allowed to eat in the crews dining room. Sorry, some things aren't for sale no matter how much you "want" them. And turning down an invitation is not a crime and no one is going to force you to accept or throw you overboard if you decline. But, regardless of how you feel, declining the invitation is a breach of etiquette.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old June 6th, 2003, 07:08 PM
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Default Re: Not the formal type



The atmosphere on a Celebrity ship is wonderful I cannot imagine any woman not wanting to dress up in the evenings semi-formal or formal-don't we all buy a special wardrobe just for cruising?.As for the guys you all look so sexy in your formal wear,who cares if you look like a family of penguins on a day out, you all certainly give James Bond a run for his money!!!.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old June 8th, 2003, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Not the formal type

We got an invitation to dine with the Captain on our May, Zenith cruise to Bermuda. We accepted, and had one of the most memorable dinners of our lives. The Social Hostess met us and our fellow diners in a prearranged spot and escorted us to the Captains table. The Captain was very charming and was obviously enjoying his conversations with everyone. He could be seen on occasionally about the ship passing the time of day with passengers.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old June 8th, 2003, 09:02 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not the formal type

AR,

Apparantly you didn't read Michelle's post, to which I was replying. She was talking about an invitation from the social host, not from HM the Captain.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa....

You're quire correct on two counts.

>> 1. I did misread Michelle's post. Oftentimes the social host(ess) sends invitations from the captain and takes replies to those invitations on the captains's behalf. In such a situation, the is from the Captain even though it indicates that replies should go to the social hostess. The Captain may also host a "private" luncheon or dinner with seating at several tables, with a senior officer from the ship acting as the host(ess) at each table -- and even there, the invitation is from the captain even though one might be seated at another table at the event. I misinterpreted Michelle's post to refer to this sort of situation.

>> 2. It certainly is acceptable to decline an invitation from another senior officer, including the social host(ess).

It had an RSVP, and that quite obviously means it's OK to decline.

Here, your thinking is going astray. "RSVP" means that a reply is expected -- but social etiquette demands that the reply be acceptance if the invitation comes from the captain unless there's a really extreme situation that makes attendance impossible. In the same way, "Regrets Only" means that a reply is expected if it's not possible to attend -- but social etiquette demands that one not send regrets to the captain unless there's an equally dire sistuation.

Norm.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old June 9th, 2003, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Not the formal type

Thanks, the invitation was to dine with the social hostess. I'm glad it wasn't improper to decline.

Cheers,
Michelle B.


Land Cruise, Britain and Belgium

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  #42 (permalink)  
Old June 9th, 2003, 09:19 PM
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Default Captain's Invitations

My times to dine with the Captain have been many since I am a famous person, and am usually in oneof the top suites. I do not find the Captain's company all that fascinating most of the time. Often he is hardly able to speak coherent English and is distracted by many things during the meal. A cruise is a commercial undertaking, and the paying guest in fact has leeway to do as he pleases, within polite limits. It has also been my observation thathe is usually surrounded by good looking young women. I have little interest in this fol de rol. And it is my choice to cruise on Celebrity ships -- which are HARDLY the epitome of top drawer -- whether I want to observe archaic etiquette guidlines.
Gene in Birmingham
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old June 10th, 2003, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Not the formal type

I will be traveling with my 8 year old daughter on the Summit in Alaska in a few weeks. What is proper formal attire for children?
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old June 10th, 2003, 05:52 PM
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Default Re: Re: Not the formal type

Hi Jr,
Kids can wear their regular type jeans, shorts, t-shirts/sweat shirts during the day and for dinner in the dining room on casual nites, nice slacks, or a dress and a dressier dress on "formal" nights. You don't need to go way overboard buying them nice clothes, dress for comfort and weather during the day and just follow the dress code for the evening dinners.

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  #45 (permalink)  
Old June 11th, 2003, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Re: Not the formal type

jrbrand,

What is proper formal attire for children?

I'm glad that you asked the question that way!

The proper formal attire for children is the same as for adults -- and it's not uncommon to see whole families on cruise with even the children decked out in tuxedos or at least dark suits on formal nights. From a developmental perspective, this is great experience for children -- partly because they learn to appreciate the elegance of a formal evening while learning that there's a proper way to dress for such occasions and partly because they are dressed like the adults and thus can feel "grown up" -- an important psychological dynamic for most children.

There's also a mindset in some sectors of the American population which holds that children don't have to dress to the same standard because one can't expect them to have formal clothing. As a result of this mindset, you probably will see some boys wearing shirts, neckties, and slacks, either with or without sport coats, on formal nights. Obviously, most cruise lines won't try to stop such practices even though they don't conform to the standards of proper etiquette. Nonetheless, this mindset and the associated practice are far from universal.

Obtaining proper formal attire for children need not be expensive. For boys, most tuxedo shops do have tuxedos in chidren's sizes available for rent at very reasonable rates because there's a considerable demand for them -- for ring bearers and junior ushers at weddings, for example. Unless you cruise frequently, there's not much point in buying a tuxedo for a boy who probably will outgrow it before your next cruise and the rentals are pretty cheap, so renting probably is the way to go. Suitable dresses for girls also are readily available because they frequently are junior bridesmaids and flower girls in weddings -- but you might try your local mall first, as you probably will find suitable dresses at prices much lower than what you would pay at a bridal shop.

Have a great cruise!

Norm.
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old June 12th, 2003, 10:08 AM
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Default Re: Not the formal type

Personally, I think there's something twee (so cute as to be annoying) about seeing a small boy in a tuxedo.

Cheers,
Michelle B.


Land Cruise, Britain and Belgium

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old June 12th, 2003, 10:16 AM
AR
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Default Re: Re: Not the formal type

Me too Michelle.

In fact I think putting kids in tuxedos stunts their growth.

The Brits have a word for it: "foppish."

AR
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old June 12th, 2003, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Not the formal type

The proper formal attire for children is the same as for adults -- and it's not uncommon to see whole families on cruise with even the children decked out in tuxedos or at least dark suits on formal nights

Norm.. I believe you're speaking again about how you wish it was, rather than the facts of what the situation is<G>

Will you see a family with children dressed in tuxes or suits? Probably one or two. Though I think that is far from common.

We can talk about proper etiquette, and terminologies, or we can talk about facts of life. When it comes to children (under teen age) on formal nights, by a vast majority, you are commonly going to see them dressed in slacks/shirt/tie(or not) for the boys, and party dresses for the girls.

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  #49 (permalink)  
Old June 13th, 2003, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Re: Not the formal type

Kuki,

Norm.. I believe you're speaking again about how you wish it was, rather than the facts of what the situation is<G>

Will you see a family with children dressed in tuxes or suits? Probably one or two. Though I think that is far from common.

We can talk about proper etiquette, and terminologies, or we can talk about facts of life. When it comes to children (under teen age) on formal nights, by a vast majority, you are commonly going to see them dressed in slacks/shirt/tie(or not) for the boys, and party dresses for the girls.


I have never taken count, but I have seen a lot of youth in tuxedos or dinner jackets -- both in the main dining room and around the ship after dinner -- on another premium cruise line. Given Celebrity's reputation for drawing an even more "upscale" crowd who are really "into" formal nights, I would be surprised if it happens less frequently on Celebrity. OTOH, there could be an element of "self selection" in my observations since I usually do not go anywhere near the buffet restaurant, which could be where the more casual crowd would tend to eat, at dinner time.

Even so, "jrbrand" asked what is proper rather than what is tolerated. In reply to that question, I stand by my earlier answer -- the second paragraph of which also stated quite clearly that compliance probably would not be universal....

Norm.
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