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  #31 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2003, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal ni

Rarintugo,

Glad you decided to buy the suggested attire. You and your traveling companion(s) will be much more comfortable and you may find you actually enjoy dressing up! My husband, who reluctantly bought a sale tuxedo many years ago, has gotten more than his money's worth from his "cruise suit"! It's no more difficult to carry a suit or tux than an extra jacket and pants, and since you wear it only a couple of nights at a time, it lasts for years. Formal nights and afternoon high tea, both of which involve dress codes, are two of my favorite experiences at sea.

I think that men look very handsome in their dark suits and tuxes!!!

Linda
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2003, 09:10 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal ni

Al,

... does what someone wears make them a different person?

No, what somebody wears does not make somebody a "different person" -- but it does show what somebody is (or is not).

Let me say it another way. Your attire and your grooming is the first statement that you make to a stranger -- before you even get to speak a word.

who wants to sweat and not be able to turn their neck for 3 hours?

That's a manifestation of clothes that don't fit properly -- not the style of clothing.

Norm.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old June 30th, 2003, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

When I first met my husband, he was wearing a navy blue suit that set off his
dark hair and hazel eyes- so handsome! And I always tell him how handsome
and wonderful he looks when he dresses himself up for a dinner on a cruise! He'll
never admit it, but he loves the compliments --- and the admiring looks from other
women!

So I say, enjoy dressing up--- we only look this good a few times a year!

JanGail
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2003, 01:09 AM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

Rarintugo,
Wear what you want and what you feel comfortable in. No one on that ship is going to give you a dirty look. If they do, SMILE! It's much more beautiful than the clothes anyone wears! I saw many people on our Celebrity cruise that were outside the dresscode, and no one said a word, because they continued it throughout the week, either that or they were just rednecks. That's OK! Have fun and smile! That will please the cruise directors more than the threads you're wearing!
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2003, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

momof4:

Are you a Cruise Director? If not, which CDs have you talked to to find out that the smile pleases them more than the attire?

just asking,
marc
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2003, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

I'm not a cruise director, although as a "mom of 4" I wear many hats! It's just common sense........live life with common sense and you don't need to be intimidated by all this nonsense and scrutiny on the clothing. I don't have a problem personally with the formal wear, but I don't think that people should be so hung up on it, that they make comments to the maitre D about what others are wearing. If everyone would lighten up a little, and let people be, it would make life more enjoyable. The reason these boards exist is because people do feel like they need to stress out about their clothing. I don't think that is necessary. Half of my family likes to dress up and the other half doesn't. Why make the half that doesn't, miserable? Life is too short to make a big deal about little things....... That doesn't mean that they show up dressed inappropriately, but I do feel that if my son wants to wear a nice white dress shirt with dress pants and a formal tie, I am not going to force him to wear a dinner jacket.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2003, 11:11 AM
Adam Francis
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

A sports coat and slacks are inappropriate for a Celebrity Cruise. Especially now that they have re-branded, there are stories of people being DENIED ENTRENCE to the main dinning room because they are not in proper attire. Again, these are just stories, I do not know if they are true. After 6 Celebrity Cruises, they only people I see in a nice sports coat and slacks are young children. If you go on a truly upscale cruise line like Silversea, Crystal, or Radisson, almost all men are in tuxedoes, never mind suites. I know how you feel, sometimes I don't want to dress up either, and that is why they also have a delicious casual dinner service at the buffet. And that is insane about peopleís cruise experience being ruined because others choose not to dress up. I quite frankly donít care what other people where, I just respect Celebrityís dress code.

Adam Francis

Celebrity Galaxy- 7/98
Celebrity Zenith- 7/99
Rhapsody of the Seas- 12/99
Voyager of the Seas- 8/00
Celebrity Millennium- 6/01
Radiance of the Seas- 10/01
Explorer of the Seas- 12/01
Celebrity Millennium- 4/02
Celebrity Constellation- 6/02
Celebrity Summit- 8/02
Radiance of the Seas- 8/02
Norwegian Star- 11/02
Norwegian Dawn- 12/02
Celebrity Infinity- 4/03
Radisson Seven Seas Voyager- 6/03
Crystal Serenity- 8/03
Serenade of the Seas- 11/03
Mariner of the Seas- 12/03
Queen Mary II- 6/04
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2003, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

To Adam Francis:

A very nice sports jacket/blazer and slacks are perfectly appropriate for informal
evenings- and not on formal or even semi-formal evenings. Many people do
not have the opportunities or experience to engage in the wide variety of events
that require a knowledge to make distinctions between formal, semi-formal,
informal, and the latest catch-phrase- "elegantly casual". Unless you take a
course in etiquette, many people rely on the good natured and kind advice of
those who are experienced. Not welcome or need are the unkind, snide, snobbish
remarks and behavior of those who think they are better informed. "They" may be
better informed, but not in the ways of showing basic goodwill to others. By the
way, even "rednecks" know how to spell "suits"-- not "suites"!!

So get off your high horse, and relax - don't worry about what others are wearing,
just enjoy your space and the people you associate with! Ultimately, it is up to
the cruise lines and travel agents to inform potential clients of the dress codes,
and ambiance of the cruise line they are considering PRIOR to booking! If the
cruise lines and agents aren't clear, send mixed messages, etc. then that is what
will happen- a few misinformed passengers wearing a nice sports jacket on a
semi-formal or informal evening-- God forbid!! How shocking!!

Like some people say, don't sweat the small stuff! There are more serious
issues to address such as drunkeness, vandalism, theft, etc. Do I need to say
more?

JanGail (Yes, I'm having a bad day, and yes, I feel better now)
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2003, 01:34 PM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

Jangail:

Not to defend adam, but I believe he was referring to sports coats for formal night...the orginal post on this thread. I don't think anyone disagrees that sports coats are fine for informal night.

By the way, I wonder why so many people have trouble spelling "suits?"

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"The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function."

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  #40 (permalink)  
Old July 1st, 2003, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

This debate on dress codes has raged-on for several years on ALL the cruise website message boards, yet I don't think ANYONE has convinced those with opposing views to reconsider their POV. Until Celebrity decides to (or ignores to) enforce it's "requested" dress attire, nothing will change. They are attempting to "upscale" again as they were in the beginning, but how can this be accomplished if they don't provide a "clear and accurate" mandate for their product-line? It's clear to me that having guidelines that aren't enforced entitles pax to "interprete" rules however they see fit. If Celebrity plans on truly becoming "upscale" again, they MUST set a standard for ALL to follow. If this means allowing alternate dining for those who prefer "country club casual", please inform clients of the options when they are researching cruise lines or ships. When I go to purchase any product, I expect the manufacturer to supply a product that is what they claim. I choose Celebrity mainly for their food , service, beautiful ships and their "traditionalist" style. I don't get upset by those who can't/won't adhere to daily dress standards, but it certainly "lessens" the experience somewhat. For some, a cruise is something thev've dreamed about for years and have saved for over many years. For me, I don't think it too much to dress-up for a few hours a few nights a cruise. When I look back at cruise photos of formal nights from years back, it still gives me a special feeling and helps me to remember special times with my soulmate and wife. That's what "formal" nights mean to me. Celebrity, are you paying attention to these boards?????????????

Regards...Bob
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old July 2nd, 2003, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

I chose Celebrity for a variety of reasons, not for their dressing standards. I cruise alot, and I have a large party. I will choose other cruiselines if Celebrity is strict in their dresscodes. I uphold their standards, but if a member of my party is one inch outside of their code, and this is unacceptable, then I will choose to go with a more accomodating line.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old July 3rd, 2003, 08:42 AM
BuzbyUK
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

BYE-BYE
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old July 3rd, 2003, 12:52 PM
Adam Francis
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Default Re: Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

Janigail,
I believe that you did not read my message closely enough. Please do not comment on other people's remarks in a somewhat rude manner when you YOURSELF did not even take the time to see what I was saying. If you read my message, I stated that

"A sports coat and slacks are inappropriate for a Celebrity Cruise. Especially now that they have re-branded, there are stories of people being DENIED ENTRENCE to the main dinning room because they are not in proper attire."

Yes, I do know the cruise lines dress codes after 15 cruises, and I do not need you telling me that I do not. I go to many other business events and weddings, funerals, etc. that I know what formal means. In my opinion, formal means that a tuxedo is required. If I made the dress codes, I would insist that all men where tuxedoes or else they shall not be permitted to dine. And no, I am very relaxed about what I wear. I simply follow the dress-codes.

I am sorry that I spelled suits wrong. AND, by the way, EVEN REDNECKS can understand the sentence "A sports coat and slacks are inappropriate for a Celebrity Cruise." I still do not see how you did not get that. You just made such a fool out of yourself.

Adam Francis

Celebrity Galaxy- 7/98
Celebrity Zenith- 7/99
Rhapsody of the Seas- 12/99
Voyager of the Seas- 8/00
Celebrity Millennium- 6/01
Radiance of the Seas- 10/01
Explorer of the Seas- 12/01
Celebrity Millennium- 4/02
Celebrity Constellation- 6/02
Celebrity Summit- 8/02
Radiance of the Seas- 8/02
Norwegian Star- 11/02
Norwegian Dawn- 12/02
Celebrity Infinity- 4/03
Radisson Seven Seas Voyager- 6/03
Crystal Serenity- 8/03
Serenade of the Seas- 11/03
Mariner of the Seas- 12/03
Queen Mary II- 6/04
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old July 3rd, 2003, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

Your statement that a "sports coat and slacks are inappropriate for Celebrity..."
is still wrong. It is most certainly appropriate for evenings designated as "informal."
Since we are looking forward to our first cruise on the Horizon in January, my
husband is taking his dark suit, and a sports jacket, dress shirts and ties; I will
bring my cocktail dresses that I can dress up or down for formal, semi-formal and
even informal. I am no fool-- we have enjoyed more than 10 cruises together and
on land vacations. We have travelled all over the world and met many interesting
people. We will continue to do so.


I rest my case.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old July 3rd, 2003, 10:13 PM
AR
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

To Adam Francis:

Sir, you are misinformed.

Quoting directly from the information sent by Celebrity before our last cruise with them in April:

On Casual Nights, choose from the following:
--Pantsuit or sporty outfit for women
--Sport shirt and slacks for men

On Informal Nights, the following is proper wear:
--Dress or pants outfit for women
--Jacket, shirt and tie for men

On Formal Nights, you'll want to be seen in:
--Cocktail dresses or long gowns
--Dinner jackets and dark suits
--Tuxedo

You say you follow the dress code. Well pal, that's the Celebrity dress code. It doesn't seem to me that anybody's made a fool of himself or herself except you.

Believe it or not, we can read--we can even read through all the misspellings and poor grammar and usage in your posts. And you're still wrong.

I believe in following the dress code too. In fact I've strongly advocated it on these boards. But I know what the dress code says, and I'm not about to let you confuse future cruisers with your inaccurate opinions about what proper dress aboard Celebrity is or should be.

By the way, you may not know this, but in SOME circles of society, now mostly gone, the term "formal" means white tie and tails while "semi-formal" is used when a tuxedo is appropriate. However, Celebrity classifies things as shown above, and that's fine.

Repeating your inaccurate beliefs again and again will not make them correct.

AR
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old July 9th, 2003, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

momof4,

If everyone would lighten up a little, and let people be, it would make life more enjoyable.

Rather, it would make life a lot more enjoyable if people like you would respect the rules rather than telling everybody else that it's okay to ignore the rules if you don't want to follow them.

The hallmark of children who get into trouble as teens is parents who (1) think that rules don't really matter and (2) excuse their children's misdeeds -- and if you don't believe me, ask the principals or headmasters at your children's schools, or your local police chief, or anybody else who is responsible for maintaining order in society. I'll give pretty good odds that your children are in constant trouble with authorities, especially if they are of middle school or high school age.

Norm.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old July 9th, 2003, 08:02 PM
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Default Re: Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

Jangail,

A very nice sports jacket/blazer and slacks are perfectly appropriate for informal
evenings- and not on formal or even semi-formal evenings.


While a sport coat and slacks technically are not semiformal attire, the reality is that the distinction between "semiformal" and "informal" attire for men has become greatly blurred in recent years. Most cruise lines that have "semiformal" evenings in addition to "formal" evenings now specifiy either a business suit or a sport coat and slacks (obviously, worn with a dress shirt and a necktie) for semiformal attire.

Unless you take a course in etiquette, many people rely on the good natured and kind advice of those who are experienced.

I would like to see social etiquette taught in our schools -- startng in first grade and continuing all the way up to graduation from high school. It is every bit as necessary in a civil society as reading, writing, arithmetic/mathematics, history, geography, and civics.

By the way, even "rednecks" know how to spell "suits"-- not "suites"!!

Hey, we all are capable of typo's, so let's give one another room to be human! In fact, a spell checker would not have caught this one.

Ultimately, it is up to the cruise lines and travel agents to inform potential clients of the dress codes, and ambiance of the cruise line they are considering PRIOR to booking!

The cruise lines do publish the information, so it's readily available, and some travel agents seem to communicate this information to their clients very well. Other travel agents, unfortunately, seem to be the premier source of misinformation. On one cruise, my parents had tablemates who did not bring formal attire because their travel agent had told them that they could go to the buffet for a casual dinner. The travel agent apparently did not know the line's older ships -- including the ship on which they booked their cruise -- did not offer that option. I doubt that this experience is unique.

Norm.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old July 9th, 2003, 08:08 PM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal ni

Adam,

In my opinion, formal means that a tuxedo is required. If I made the dress codes, I would insist that all men where tuxedoes or else they shall not be permitted to dine.

According to strict social etiquette, you are quite right -- formal means "black tie." Nonetheless, there's also a history here. Back in the 1970's, when few men owned tuxedos, all of the major cruise lines that maintained formal nights adopted a modified standard of formal that admitted dark business suits as well -- and through the 1980's and early 1990's, that's what most men wore for formal nights on cruises. Only in the past decade, with the widespread acceptance of "business casual" attire in the workplace leading to a situation in which very few men now own business suits, have tuxedos made a comeback aboard ship.

Norm.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old July 9th, 2003, 08:16 PM
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Default Re: Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

AR,

By the way, you may not know this, but in SOME circles of society, now mostly gone, the term "formal" means white tie and tails while "semi-formal" is used when a tuxedo is appropriate. However, Celebrity classifies things as shown above, and that's fine.

I have never seen an etiquette book that defined a tuxedo or a dinner jacket as anything but "formal" or that defined "semiformal" as anything but a business suit and tie. IIRC (and I don't have a reference at my fingertips), the ultimate in formality is usually designated "formal evenign attire (white tie)" or someithing of the sort -- and gehtlemen don their white tie and tails while ladies don their ball gowns.

Norm.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old July 10th, 2003, 10:20 AM
Adam Francis
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Default Re: Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

I quite simply do not understand what your problem its. I totally understand the dress-codes on Celebrity, and I in no way disagree with the dress codes that you listed. The only mistake that I made was saying that sports-jacket, slacks, and tie are inappropriate which for formal nights, they are. I am not misinformed at all. I know exactly what the dress-codes are, and WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME THAT I DO NOT? I agree with what you said about the dress codes. By the way, when I was on Infinity last April, a tie was NOT required for formal nights! I don't know if it is after the re-branding, but it was not then. Therefore, YOU ARE THE ONE that is misinformed. And, please not call me "sir" and then "by the way 'pal'". I do not make my spelling and grammar perfect because I do not care enough, nor do most people on this board.

Adam Francis

Celebrity Galaxy- 7/98
Celebrity Zenith- 7/99
Rhapsody of the Seas- 12/99
Voyager of the Seas- 8/00
Celebrity Millennium- 6/01
Radiance of the Seas- 10/01
Explorer of the Seas- 12/01
Celebrity Millennium- 4/02
Celebrity Constellation- 6/02
Celebrity Summit- 8/02
Radiance of the Seas- 8/02
Norwegian Star- 11/02
Norwegian Dawn- 12/02
Celebrity Infinity- 4/03
Radisson Seven Seas Voyager- 6/03
Crystal Serenity- 8/03
Serenade of the Seas- 11/03
Mariner of the Seas- 12/03
Queen Mary II- 6/04
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old July 10th, 2003, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

Mr. Adam Francis:

In reference to your post to JanGail dated 07-03-03, second paragraph, first sentence
is quoted: "A sports coat and slacks are inappropriate for a Celebrity cruise." That
sentence alone is what others including myself, is taking issue with. Unless you
disagree, what most of us are clarifying is that such attire is perfectly appropriate
for informal evenings. We will follow the guidance provided by Celebrity Cruise
Lines based on what their brochures/website/daily onboard newsletters tell us
to wear. Additionally, if there are any lingering questions on what to wear while
on board, the purser's desk can also advise you. In today's society, as other
posters have indicated, lines have been blurred as to the definitions of formal,
informal, semi-formal, elegantly casual, resort casual, etc., etc. To further complicate
matters more, people's perceptions of what they wear is considered dressy or not
also varies wildly. For example, you have seen TV and movie stars at the Oscar
ceremonies wearing a dark jacket with a t-shirt! Look how dress varies among the
men and women at these formal affairs! I remember Martha Stewart arrived to a
White House State Dinner and caused a few comments about wearing a pants suit!
People are just too different in perceptions of what defines dressy and not dressy
that there will never be any agreement on what is appropriate.

Oh well, we just do the best we can with our own intelligence and research and
try to dress accordingly to what is advised at the time for that particular occassion.

JanGail
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old July 11th, 2003, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

Norm,
Sorry, two of mine are past the high school age, and they did not have trouble with the authorities, and the two younger teens have not had any trouble with authorities either.
They all have a mind of their own, however, as do most people.
Some authoritarian parents have kids with difficulty in authority. Sorry, but your theory of putting everyone in a box is outdated. How did we get on this subject? I will clearly put my opinion out there, as you have completey distorted my view. I and my family adhere to the celebrity dresscode, and have never been asked to dress otherwise, however, if a cruiseline becomes anal in their adherence policy, I will not continue to cruise with that line. As of now, with the dress policy that Celebrity is supporting, I will continue to keep Celebrity open as a choice. Norm, lighten up a little, you'll live longer.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old July 11th, 2003, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Nice sports coat and slacks enough for formal night?

Oh by the way, Norm, do you have children? Have they defied the authorities? Just curious?
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