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  #61 (permalink)  
Old January 19th, 2006, 11:12 PM
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Default I have to agree Norm

Why is it that those who DO NOT want to follow guidelines or dress TRY to change the rules and 'ruin' it for everyone else?

I choose X because of the standards it follows.

Although I am not fond of some other lines, If I chose not to dress or to take a vacation with people who didn't/wouldn't dress I would suggest a more casual line. I might or might not go...however I WOULD adhere to their policies as I do with X.

In other words I KNOW that if I go Celebrity I am EXPECTED to dress formal for Formal evenings. i.e. Tux or dinner jacket. I know that informal (while we dissagree somewhat) means a jacket and tie.

So if I want to bum around in shorts, khakis and flip flops in the diningroom I WOULD NOT CHOOSE X, but adifferent company. Mostlikey one with casual alternative, no formal evenings, come as you are policies.

You do not have to be a brain surgeon to figure this out.

And I DO complain and write on the comment cards about ahearance. I get names and days. Sometimes as in one case a picture to send long to corporate.

The thing that scares me is that many people blame the ships in NOT STRICTLY ENFORCING thier policies.

As adults, we really should know better.

I don't think I'd want to be the one on a ship that immediately started enforcing policy after leaving port and having to deal with and fight the group of ding-dongs that challenge the issue. It would cause nothing more than riot, malice, discust ...etc with not only the line who are doing nothing but performing their jobs, but with the idiots who are breaking the rules.

All out anarchy is what comes to mind.

I like the addage...Well not everyone dressed on my last cruise and they were okay....or 50% wear tuxes the other 50% looked nice and classy...or something of the sort.

What I have to say is just because someone else does it, doesn't 'makit rite'

And for those who want to contradict me....If everyone else gets drunk and jumps overboard...does that mean your going to follow? Because everyone else is doing it?

I'd guess at least 30% on these boards would go for a swim...thats the level of maturity I'm sensing.

Dave
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Celebrity Century - CocoCay 01/12/06
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RCL Monarch OTS - Ensenada 01/11/07
Celebrity Zenith - W. Caribbean 03/23/07
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  #62 (permalink)  
Old January 20th, 2006, 06:52 PM
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Your point is well taken, however I don't think that the majority of cruisers know or care that Celebrity is "supposed" to be more formal. Most people don't spend time researching dress codes on message boards prior to booking a cruise, rather they choose a cruiseline based on other factors such as itinerary, price and availability.

If you read Celebrity's own documentation (website, brochures, etc.) there isn't much that would lead you to believe that their formal night is any more formal than the formal night on any other line. Yes, they do still have informal nights, whereas other lines have moved towards only having formal and casual nights, but their description of formal reads pretty much the same as all the others.

I know my cruises on Celebrity didn't seem any more formal than on Princess. Informal nights looked alot like Princess' "smart casual". I don't think many people realized there was supposed to be a difference. Formal nights on both cruiselines were pretty much the same with a wide variety of dress from ultra-formal to dressy casual.

I just didn't see this higher level of formality that you speak of. In fact, I had already taken two Celebrity cruises (as well as several on Princess and Carnival) before I discovered these message boards and learned that Celebrity was supposed to be more formal. It was news to me!

And apparently Celebrity's marketing still hasn't gotten the message across because I have three co-workers who booked their first cruises this year (one on Celebrity) and none of them had a clue that their was supposed to be a difference between cruiselines. They all say they booked because of itinerary and price. One couldn't even tell me which cruiseline she was booked on! She said she had to check with her travel agent because she couldn't remember! For better or worse, I think a wide majority of people look at all the mainstream lines as being pretty much the same.

In any case, it still would seem that Celebrity either isn't receiving the comments or isn't listening becuase dress is still getting more casual and enforcement more lax (which I consider a good thing, but I know many people do not).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Across all cruise lines, your comment probably is accurate, but I doubt that such comments are distributed uniformly both ways across all cruise lines.

>> 1. Celebrity has cultivated an "upscale" image and built vessels with formal styling that tend to attract a higher percentage of passengers who like the more formal style that you dislike. Some of these people may well be "snobs" who feel superior to others because they dress up in fancy duds and you don't want to be around those whom they view as "riffraff" because they won't dress properly, but the fact remaisn that such individuals are a whole lot more likey to cruise with Celebrity than with Carnival, or even with Royal Caribbean.

>> 2. As I have stated in other posts, many passengers on Celebrity dress well beyond the "suggested" dress on informal and casual evenings. That also suggests a high percentage of passengers who like to dress up and who chericsh the atmosphere provided by everybody doing so.

>> 3. There's also the reality that Celebrity has not followed the lead of Princess and other cruise lines in abandoning the tradition of "semiformal" or "informal" evenings. If anything, this tends to draw passengers who relish the dress-up evenings to Celebrity while pushing those who don't like dress-up evenings toward Royal Caribbean and other lines.

If Celebrity has a higher fraction of passengers who relish dressing up and a lower fraction of those who don't than other lines, it's reasonable to expect that Celebrity would receive disproportionately more comments in favor of the dress-up evenings. In fact, Celebrity probably gets a fair number of comments suggesting a return to semiformal evenings rather than informal evenings!

This also might explain the efforts to enforce dress codes that quite a few posters have reported on this discussoin board.

Personally, I don't choose a cruise line because it prescribes a particular standard of dress, but I do believe that every cruise line should enforce its own rules. Human nature is such that laxity of enforcemetn of some rules leads people to think that the rules don't matter because nobdoy will enforce them, so they begin to flaunt other rules and instructions from the crew as well. Before long, this becomes a fundamental safety issue when somebody flaunts the rules in a way that causes serious injury or death -- and there are enough potential hazarda aboard any ship for something like that to happen.

Norm.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 12:46 AM
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Dave,

Why is it that those who DO NOT want to follow guidelines or dress TRY to change the rules and 'ruin' it for everyone else?

I choose X because of the standards it follows.

Although I am not fond of some other lines, If I chose not to dress or to take a vacation with people who didn't/wouldn't dress I would suggest a more casual line. I might or might not go...however I WOULD adhere to their policies as I do with X.


I agree completely. It's primiarly a question of making appropriate choices when booking the cruise so that one books on a line that delivers what one wants.

In other words I KNOW that if I go Celebrity I am EXPECTED to dress formal for Formal evenings. i.e. Tux or dinner jacket. I know that informal (while we dissagree somewhat) means a jacket and tie.

Splitting hairs, the guidelines that Celebrity is giving out aboard ship now stipulate that a necktie optional on informal evenings even though a sport coat is expected.

Norm.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old January 21st, 2006, 01:08 AM
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luv2cruise99,

Your point is well taken, however I don't think that the majority of cruisers know or care that Celebrity is "supposed" to be more formal. Most people don't spend time researching dress codes on message boards prior to booking a cruise, rather they choose a cruiseline based on other factors such as itinerary, price and availability.

Your post highlights one of the major problems that we face as a society today -- the problem that many people do not take responsibility for their own actions. If you are buying a product, you bear the responsibility to know what you are getting and to choose a product that is suitable for your purpose. Alas, the way you and your coworkers check out cruise lines sounds like the guy who bought a small pick-up with a four-cylinder engine and then wondered why it would not pull his Airstream at highway speeds.

It is not very difficult to do a bit of research on cruise lines and ships before one books one's first cruise. You can walk into any major bookstore (Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc.) and find about half a dozen books that evaluate and rate cruise lines and cruise ships in the travel section. Most of those books say very clearly that there's a profound difference bttween lines. Further, it's awfully naive to assume that all cruise lines would be carbon copies of one another when houses hotels, restaurants, automobiles, and even supermarkets and department stores clearly are not.

If one books through a travel agent, the travel agent also has some responsibility to assist the client in choosing a suitable cruise line. If I were a travel agent booking a cruise and a client seemed unfamiliar with the industry, I wuold specifically ask questions about basic lifestyle thta would help me to match the client to a suitable line. Failure to do so would be a disservice to both the clients and the lines who would end up mismatched.

I know my cruises on Celebrity didn't seem any more formal than on Princess. Informal nights looked alot like Princess' "smart casual". I don't think many people realized there was supposed to be a difference. Formal nights on both cruiselines were pretty much the same with a wide variety of dress from ultra-formal to dressy casual.

Are you really that blind?

After thirteen with Princess six cruises with Celebrity, I see the differences pretty clearly. The experience on Celebrity may be somewhat different if you take very short cruises in the Caribbean, but Celebrity's cruises are much dressier than Princess's cruises even in Alaska.

Norm.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old January 21st, 2006, 03:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Your post highlights one of the major problems that we face as a society today -- the problem that many people do not take responsibility for their own actions. If you are buying a product, you bear the responsibility to know what you are getting and to choose a product that is suitable for your purpose. Alas, the way you and your coworkers check out cruise lines sounds like the guy who bought a small pick-up with a four-cylinder engine and then wondered why it would not pull his Airstream at highway speeds.

It is not very difficult to do a bit of research on cruise lines and ships before one books one's first cruise. You can walk into any major bookstore (Barnes & Noble, Borders, etc.) and find about half a dozen books that evaluate and rate cruise lines and cruise ships in the travel section. Most of those books say very clearly that there's a profound difference bttween lines. Further, it's awfully naive to assume that all cruise lines would be carbon copies of one another when houses hotels, restaurants, automobiles, and even supermarkets and department stores clearly are not.
When I was researching my first cruise, I didn't feel the need to go to third party sources to get information. I relied on the information that the cruiseline published in the form of brochures, websites, etc. If the cruiseline can't convey the message that they wish to be considered more formal in their own publications, than it is the cruiseline's problem, not the innocent passengers who books a cruise relying on that information.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Are you really that blind?

After thirteen with Princess six cruises with Celebrity, I see the differences pretty clearly. The experience on Celebrity may be somewhat different if you take very short cruises in the Caribbean, but Celebrity's cruises are much dressier than Princess's cruises even in Alaska.
I'm sorry, but after 3 separate 10-day cruises on Celebrity and more than I can count on Princess and Carnival, I just don't see this big difference you speak of.
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Old January 21st, 2006, 06:59 AM
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Someone posted under another topic that they've seen people turned away from the after dinner show because they changed from formal wear. Has anyone heard of this??? Hubby & I will dress up for formal nights, but usually return to our cabin to change to jeans (God forbid!!) on our vacation because we want to be comfortable and we are on vacation, for God's sake!!!

I would have a REAL problem (and believe me, so would Celebrity!) if they turned us away because we were not dressed formally for the show...

Any experience with this???
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old January 21st, 2006, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanS
Someone posted under another topic that they've seen people turned away from the after dinner show because they changed from formal wear. Has anyone heard of this??? Hubby & I will dress up for formal nights, but usually return to our cabin to change to jeans (God forbid!!) on our vacation because we want to be comfortable and we are on vacation, for God's sake!!!

I would have a REAL problem (and believe me, so would Celebrity!) if they turned us away because we were not dressed formally for the show...

Any experience with this???
From my experience you will have no problems wearing jeans to the show. I have done it on all 3 of my Celebrity cruises and I have seen others doing it as well. Some people change right after dinner or dine at the casual alternative and then attend the show afterwards. I think the reports you have read have either been exaggerated or have been people dressed EXTREMELY inappropriately (shorts, raggedy torn jeans, etc.). I have never seen fashion police standing at the door checking attire on the way in, so as long as your overall appearance is nice, I think you will be fine.

I have even worn the forbidden jeans to the main dining room (not on formal night). Noone noticed and/or cared.

Of course, you are going to get many relies quoting formal policy and reminding you that formal night applies to the whole ship and not just the dining room, but reality often differs from people's expectations. The cruiseline offers a casual dining alternative and they can't seriously expect that those casual diners aren't going to disperse to the rest of the ship after dinner is over.

If you are really concerned about it, though, try wearing black jeans. It's much harder to tell they are jeans from a distance. I know when I'm wearing my black jeans, someone would have to be standing right next to me rubbing their hand up and down my pants to even tell they were jeans! If someone wants to go through that extreme to tell what kind of fabric my pants are made of, then it is them with the problem, not me!
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Old January 21st, 2006, 01:06 PM
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Thanks for the response, Luv. I REALLY think that would be taking the dress a little overboard! (pun intended!)

And I'm sure some people will gasp in horror, but once we decided NOT to bring any formal wear and bypass formal night. Our tablemates really wanted us to be there, so they actually convinced us to come anyway and we were not turned away! We did wear nice jeans and not tshirts (this was on Carnival in case anyone wants to blast them). My husband was in a wheelchair so he was less noticeable.

And believe me, no matter how good my shoes look, they're still not as comfortable as my tennis shoes!
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luv2cruise99
From my experience you will have no problems wearing jeans to the show. I have done it on all 3 of my Celebrity cruises and I have seen others doing it as well. Some people change right after dinner or dine at the casual alternative and then attend the show afterwards. I think the reports you have read have either been exaggerated or have been people dressed EXTREMELY inappropriately (shorts, raggedy torn jeans, etc.). I have never seen fashion police standing at the door checking attire on the way in, so as long as your overall appearance is nice, I think you will be fine.
I have seen someone turned away from the show on a formal night who was not in formal dress - and they were NOT "dressed EXTREMELY inappropriately (shorts, raggedy torn jeans, etc.)" - the woman had a simple pair of slacks and a plain pull over shirt. But that was once out of all my Celebrity cruises.
Jean S - the daily does state the evening dress is required (bolding is by Celebrity) in all public areas of the ship with the exception of the casual dining boulevard. If you are casually dressed, will you be turned away? - probably not. Could you be turned away? - possibly depending on how strictly they are enforcing the code on that particular sailing.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 10:37 AM
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Default Jean...

I just don't get it....Especially the THREAT to Celebrity.

WHY WOULD YOU get all dressed up for dinner and then RUSH back to your cabin to change into jeans for an hour long show? It really makes no sense to me at all.

Yes you are on vacation, but does that me you can do what ever the hell you want?

The formal and informal nights are a respected tradition. you are expected to dress accordingly out of respect and tradition...and by golly you are not a new cruiser...and you know what to expect in advance...So there really is no excuse for ignorance, simply defiance of the codes.

Grow up.

Along with the NEW advertising campaign X is out with, they are starting to ENFORCE their codes and policies.

The daily on the two day to Cococay not only listed its dress codes and asked for strict adhereance, but gave a warning to families with misbehaving children.

Celebrity IS going back to the more traditional adult themed cruises. and that does mean dressing appropriately.

As for the excuse of not knowing. Celebrity CLEARLY explains their dress code in your boarding documents that they send. They SPECIFY what they consider Casual, Informal, and Formal. Thus unless you are a complete moron who cannot read English...there is NO EXCUSE!

By the way, on the 2 day which was casual dining I would say the majority was dressed more "informal" than casual.

And yes, I also have seen people turned away both at the restaurant and at the theatre...and then they have the balls to argue with the staff like this whole idea of dressing properly was never stamped onto their forhead.

Jean, you seem like a nice, intelligent person. Have a nice time on the cruise, and if they do turn you away from the diningroom or theatre...please accept it like an adult.

For the OP: The sweater with the pants suit sounds a little more casual than informal. The diningroom is not going to be freezing. I would opt for a nice blouse instead


Ill be on the Mercury Sept 8th.....Have fun

Dave
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Most recent cruises:
Celebrity Century - CocoCay 01/12/06
Celebrity Mercury - Mexican Riviera 03/17/06
Celebrity Mercury - Alaska 09/08/06
Celebrity Century - Freeport 01/04/07
RCL Monarch OTS - Ensenada 01/11/07
Celebrity Zenith - W. Caribbean 03/23/07
Upcoming cruises:
Azamara Quest - CocoCay 10/24/07
Celebrity Century - W. Caribbean 01/03/08
Celebrity Galaxy - Mediterannean 06/09/08
Celebrity Millenium - PNW 09/19/08
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 12:08 PM
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Dave,

First of all, I never said I could do whatever the hell I wanted to do because I was on vacation. And yes, as you can see by my cruising history, we have been on MANY cruises and this will be our first on Celebrity. During our many cruises, we have NEVER seen a requirement that we wear formal wear to the after dinner shows.

And you ask why we would "rush" back to our staterooms to change? Welll,

1. My feet hurt from my high heels, no matter how good they look. Have you ever worn high heels??

2. In the dining room the lights are on and people can see how you are dressed. During the show the lights are off, you are NOT the show so who should care how you are dressed?

3. I do get cold easily and would be more comfortable in a nice warm sweatshirt and jeans. (I can hear the gasps of total shock all the way across the country!)

4. Believe it or not , I AM on vacation. I am giving them LOTS of my hard earned money to relax and enjoy myself. I am not on show for them or other people, and aside from the formal night in the dining room, I should be able to dress as I please, as long as it's not sloppy with holes in my clothes.

I realize people's lives really get affected by how others are dressed, but I think people need to relax a bit and just let others enjoy themselves as they wish. It wouldn't bother me in the slighest if someone wishes not to dress up, even on formal night, but I realize you cannot understand that.

In that case, maybe Celebrity will not be for us, but we'll try it once. And yes, I am contacting Celebrity to find out if what you say is true.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
The daily on the two day to Cococay not only listed its dress codes and asked for strict adhereance, but gave a warning to families with misbehaving children.
Bububr-
I guess Celebrity learned their lesson from the Millie 2 day cruise. That cruise was like a zoo - people sitting at just any table, kids running up and down the stairs in the dining room.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 03:50 PM
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Default Re: Jean...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bububr
Along with the NEW advertising campaign X is out with, they are starting to ENFORCE their codes and policies.

The daily on the two day to Cococay not only listed its dress codes and asked for strict adhereance, but gave a warning to families with misbehaving children.

Celebrity IS going back to the more traditional adult themed cruises. and that does mean dressing appropriately.
These rumors of Celebrity returning to more traditional cruising with stricter enforcement of dress codes have been floating around since rebranding a few years ago. Doesn't seemed to have happened yet!

I just love when people quote the dailies. You know, it really doesn't matter to me what is stated in the dailies regarding dress code. What matters to me is the information that I receive PRIOR to booking my cruise. The dress code information on Celebrity's website (quoted below) states nothing about formalwear be required throughout the entire ship. In fact, it implies the exact opposite. It only specifically mentions three things as being formal: the Captain's Welcome Aboard Cocktail Party, dinner on the second night, and the Captain's Farewell Dinner. This would lead me to believe that it's okay not to be dressed formal elsewhere aboard ship.

But if that's not enough, the wishy-washy language could lead someone to believe that formalwear is entirely optional even in the above 3 places: "both men and woman may prefer more dressy attire...". This certainly implies that it is okay NOT TO PREFER more dressy attire, and in fact, seems even more ambiquous and wishy-washy than the often argued about terms "requested" and "suggested".

But even if you go on the assumption that formalwear is absolutely required in the 3 places mentioned above, the website goes on to describe the casual dining alternatives. I don't know how they could not expect this to cause some confusion. Naturally those who dine casually are going to disperse throughout the ship afterwards to enjoy the evening's entertainment. Surely, they don't seriously expect us to confine ourselves to our cabins after dining, do they? If this is what they expect, then they should have a warning printed in BIG BOLD PRINT in the information that is available PRIOR TO BOOKING to avoid any confusion and later disappointment. Perhaps something like:

Guests are welcome to enjoy our casual dining alternatives, however, we kindly request that you RUN, DON'T WALK, back to your cabin afterwards, lest the sight of you offend those better dressed.

So quote the dailies all you want. Too little, too late! But as I've said in other posts, what I wear is really only between me and Celebrity and they have never had a problem with my appearance. Perhaps they aren't as STRICT as some would like to believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celebrity's Website
For the formal nights, including the Captain's Welcome Aboard Cocktail Party, dinner on the second night, and the Captain's Farewell Dinner held the next-to-last night of the cruise; both men and women may prefer more dressy attire, such as an evening gown for women and a tuxedo or dress suit for men.

Celebrity Cruises has implemented a casual dining service on its five ships. Casual dining is offered most nights on every cruise, depending upon the itinerary, and is served in the Palm Springs Grill and pool area on the Mercury and at the Oasis Grill and pool area on the Galaxy. On the Zenith casual dining is offered in the Windsurf Cafe. On the Century casual dining is available in the Sky Bar. On our newest ships, casual dining is offered at the Seaside Grill and pool on the Constellation, the Oceanview Grill and pool area on the Infinity, the Ocean Grill on the Millennium and the Waterfall Grill on the Summit.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 04:31 PM
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Dave and Days (same person?? Who knows)

Well, gee, guess you are just better people than others since you like to get all dressed up in an uncomfortable suit with a tie choking your neck. Enjoy!

As for kids, my kids would NEVER be allowed to be out of control as some others are! Never had and never will.

We will find a cruiseline that is more along the lines of what we want, and will enjoy our vacation IMMENSELY wearing shorts, tshirts and blue jeans the majority of the time!!!! THAT is our idea of a vacation, not having to be dressed up as if we were at home.

I think you truly need a relaxing vacation if you get so hostile and angry over someone expressing how they like to enjoy their vacation and resort to name calling ("moron"). How "mature" is that?? (in response to your comment "Grow up!" haha If I sat at a table and looked at you, I almost expect to hear "She's looking at me!!!"

Vacations are for relaxing, not getting all stressed out and angry over what someone else would like to wear....

Happy Cruising!!!
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeanS
We will find a cruiseline that is more along the lines of what we want, and will enjoy our vacation IMMENSELY wearing shorts, tshirts and blue jeans the majority of the time!!!! THAT is our idea of a vacation, not having to be dressed up as if we were at home.
Jean,

Don't be put off by what you read here. Once onboard, you will find Celebrity not much different than any other mainstream line. Some people dress, some don't. It's only on these boards that dress codes become a major issue.

And if you look on the Carnival board, or the Princess board, or the RCCL board, you will find these very same type of dress code threads with the very same arguments being made on both sides. The Celebrity folks aren't as elite as they like to believe.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 08:39 PM
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Default for starters...

Quote:
Well, gee, guess you are just better people than others since you like to get all dressed up in an uncomfortable suit with a tie choking your neck. Enjoy!
I am no better than any one else. I just follow guidelines and rules, and if I don't like the way things are run I either go through the proper channels to try and have them altered, or I choose something more appropriate to what I am looking for.

Sorry, but my suit is not uncomfortable, and my tie does not choke me. Heres a hint: if you buy the right size it fits right.

Quote:
1. My feet hurt from my high heels, no matter how good they look. Have you ever worn high heels??
No I haven't. I've noticed many women wearing lower heeled shoes that look very appropriate. They seem to go all night in these and not complain as far as I can see.

Quote:
2. In the dining room the lights are on and people can see how you are dressed. During the show the lights are off, you are NOT the show so who should care how you are dressed?
You are in the public areas and in view of all on the ship. Yes the theatre is dark...but coming and going isn't. Are you going to hide in the shadows of the corridors? Why should you stay dressed? well out of respect for others that are...thats a good reason.

[
Quote:
i]3. I do get cold easily and would be more comfortable in a nice warm sweatshirt and jeans. (I can hear the gasps of total shock all the way across the country!) [/i]
Thats why god invented wraps and shawls.

Quote:
4. Believe it or not , I AM on vacation. I am giving them LOTS of my hard earned money to relax and enjoy myself.
Thats where you are wrong. You are not giving them "LOTS of my hard earned money". You are BUYING an advertised service that is not exclusive to you only. Part of this service that is being sold is the Ambience. By doing your own thing and not following the guidelines you are distracting others from this part of the trip that many enjoy. This is simply being RUDE.

Quote:
It wouldn't bother me in the slighest if someone wishes not to dress up, even on formal night,
Thats fine for you and many others. Maybe you should invest a little more time in finding a cruiseline that better suits your needs or offers you the freedom that you wish.

I prefer to live with in the boundries that are SET and ASKED of passengers to follow as not to DISTRACT from others experiences.
You prefer to live only for yourself. I find that very selfish, and unattractive.

Dave
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RCL Monarch OTS - Ensenada 01/11/07
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old January 22nd, 2006, 09:18 PM
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Jean,

Grow up, and solve your problems rather than behaving boorishly during the cruise. You don't have to suffer.

1. My feet hurt from my high heels, no matter how good they look. Have you ever worn high heels??

Then buy a pair of dress shoes of decent quality that fit properly and don't hurt your feet. The most common causes of shoes hurting feet are (1) imprper fit and (2) poor quality.

If the heals are the problem, though, you don't have to wear high heals. Pumps or low-heeled, but dressy, sandals would be fine.

2. In the dining room the lights are on and people can see how you are dressed. During the show the lights are off, you are NOT the show so who should care how you are dressed?

You are in the showroom before and after the show, when people DO see how you are dressed.

Also, some of Celebrity's shows involve participation by members of the audience so you could be in the spotlight without knowing in advance.

Also, Celebrity's photographers are throughout the ship on formal nights filming for the cruise video that could immortalie your cameo appearance in inappropreate attire.

3. I do get cold easily and would be more comfortable in a nice warm sweatshirt and jeans. (I can hear the gasps of total shock all the way across the country!)

Then bring a shawl to wear over your shoulders and arms and wear stockings or panty hose with a full-length dress to keep your legs warm.

4. Believe it or not , I AM on vacation. I am giving them LOTS of my hard earned money to relax and enjoy myself. I am not on show for them or other people, and aside from the formal night in the dining room, I should be able to dress as I please, as long as it's not sloppy with holes in my clothes.

Yes, and YOU chose a vacation package that includes events that require proper attire. You do have other options. If you don't want to dress as required, make a different choice of vacation packages.

Whether you like the fact or not, the prescribed attire is part of what sets the atmosphere of formal, semiformal, informal, and casual evenings. The other passengers on your cruise have paid good money for a package that includes formal evenings and the atmosphere that they provide, and the cruise line has a legal obligation to deliver what it promised to those passengers. You have no right whatsoever to crash the party in inappropriate attire.

Either get with the plan or go elsewhere. It's your choice.

Norm.
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Old January 22nd, 2006, 10:04 PM
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Hi Luv,

Thanks for your response. You certainly seem a lot more relaxed and happy in your life than Rev and Bububr...YOU are the kind of person I would ENJOY sharing a table with!!! Some people are so stressed and unhappy, they really enjoy calling people names and being insulting. I feel sorry for them!

As I stated, I will contact Celebrity and find out what the facts are. Others have also mentioned that they aren't as strict as some would truly like them to be. If my being happy with MY vacation is being described as "selfish", well, then so be it! I have never been described as such in my life, but certain issues I do stand up for!

And gosh, if you both really have so much time on your hands as to number each of my comments and reply to each one of them, well, then, you really need something better to do with your time! Such anger in your responses!!! Tsk tsk There are more things in the world to be disgusted and angry over rather than whether I am wearing an evening gown or not, don't you think????
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old January 22nd, 2006, 10:57 PM
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The ship sets the appropriate wear for the evening. If is is formal with a casual dining option, BOTH would be allowed in public areas and to attend events like the shows unless otherwise specified.

JEANS AND A SWEATSHIRT are not considered CASUAL DRESS by Celebrity. THAT WAS MY POINT. Not that only those wear tuxedos and gowns could attend events.

JEANS aren't even considered resortwear, neither are sweatshirts.

SO when a poster PURPOSELY states they are going to break adhearance to the dress codes...I get pissed. Sorry if you disagree.

If Jean. who claims to be a seasoned cruiser had said she and her husband were to change into a casual pantsuit outfit and khakis with a polo shirt...I would have said okay...I think its stupid to dress for dinner then undress just for an hour show. Personally I feel if they are being chocked by ties and killed by high heels maybe they should forgo formal dinner and eat in their bathrobes in the cabin, then dress casually and go to the show.

I'd like to see them in New York. Dinner at Sardis, then "Spam-a-lot".

Hmmm dinner rush back to the hotel change into sweats and do a sold out broadway show....How about a wedding? Wear something nice to church....change into jeans and sweat pants for the reception ....F*CK everybody else I wanna be comfortable...

Its NOT about what you are wearing its about RESPECTING TRADITION as well as consideration for the other passengers and thier experience.
Anything else is RUDE, SELFISH, and INCONSIDERATE....PERIOD.

I'm not going to walk by your table and spit on the floor "JUST BECAUSE I CAN" during the captains welcome or farewell party...so don't SH*T allover my experience which IS inline with the vacation that was offered and I purchased. I HAVE NEVER SEEN CELEBRITY ADVERTISE ANYTHING BUT UPSCALE, TRADITIONAL, DRESSED UP PEOPLE IN THE DININGROOMS. Can you disagree? If you can , please provide alternative resources.

Thanks

Dave
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Celebrity Century - CocoCay 01/12/06
Celebrity Mercury - Mexican Riviera 03/17/06
Celebrity Mercury - Alaska 09/08/06
Celebrity Century - Freeport 01/04/07
RCL Monarch OTS - Ensenada 01/11/07
Celebrity Zenith - W. Caribbean 03/23/07
Upcoming cruises:
Azamara Quest - CocoCay 10/24/07
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  #80 (permalink)  
Old January 22nd, 2006, 11:55 PM
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Dave,

The ship sets the appropriate wear for the evening.

That's exactly right.

If is is formal with a casual dining option, BOTH would be allowed in public areas and to attend events like the shows unless otherwise specified.

As sensible as that might seem, it is in fact wrong. On Celebrity, the stated policy is that the prescribed evening attire is required everywhere except the "Casual Dining Boulevard." In other words, the line's stated policy is that formal or informal attire is required in the showroom, in all lounges, and in the casino on he respective evenings. Envorcement may vary, but it is a social faux pas to show up for the show in casual attire on a formal evening in any case. Princess maintained a similar policy though my last cruise with them, which was just prior to the merger of operations between the parent company and Carnival Corporation. I can't speak for other lines.

JEANS AND A SWEATSHIRT are not considered CASUAL DRESS by Celebrity. THAT WAS MY POINT. Not that only those wear tuxedos and gowns could attend events.

JEANS aren't even considered resortwear, neither are sweatshirts.

SO when a poster PURPOSELY states they are going to break adhearance to the dress codes...I get pissed. Sorry if you disagree.


I agree copletely. This would be an eggregious breach of social etiquette that shows utter contempt for the other passengers as well as the line.

If Jean. who claims to be a seasoned cruiser...

But look at Jean's cruise history. All of her cruises have been on "budget" and "mainstream" lines that do not have -- and do not expect -- the class of Celebrity Cruises and its passengers. There is a difference. Anybody who chooses a Celebrity cruise thinking that the line's character and ambiance are just like the lines in her list is in for a rude awakening.

I'd like to see them in New York. Dinner at Sardis, then "Spam-a-lot".

Hmmm dinner rush back to the hotel change into sweats and do a sold out broadway show....How about a wedding? Wear something nice to church....change into jeans and sweat pants for the reception ....F*CK everybody else I wanna be comfortable...


I love your parody. It captures the attitude perfectly.

Its NOT about what you are wearing its about RESPECTING TRADITION as well as consideration for the other passengers and thier experience.
Anything else is RUDE, SELFISH, and INCONSIDERATE....PERIOD.


Very well said. In fact, this bears repeating!

Its NOT about what you are wearing its about RESPECTING TRADITION as well as consideration for the other passengers and thier experience.
Anything else is RUDE, SELFISH, and INCONSIDERATE....PERIOD.


And I would add ARROGANT to the list.

Norm.
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  #81 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
As sensible as that might seem, it is in fact wrong. On Celebrity, the stated policy is that the prescribed evening attire is required everywhere except the "Casual Dining Boulevard." In other words, the line's stated policy is that formal or informal attire is required in the showroom, in all lounges, and in the casino on he respective evenings. Envorcement may vary, but it is a social faux pas to show up for the show in casual attire on a formal evening in any case. Princess maintained a similar policy though my last cruise with them, which was just prior to the merger of operations between the parent company and Carnival Corporation. I can't speak for other lines.
If it is their stated policy, than they are stating it in the WRONG places. As I said previously, what is printed in the dailies is of little concern to me. It is the information that I am given BEFORE BOOKING that I rely on and it is that information that I expect to be correct and consistently stated between sources (website, brochure, etc.).

You may consider it a social faux pas, but the many passengers who change after dinner or dine casual and then attend the show would seem to disagree. Too bad not everybody can live up to your social standards.

Even you and "bububr", who are generally on the same side of this issue, can't agree on this one!

Celebrity's website adds more to the confusion with statements such as this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celebrity's Website
Evening dress codes apply to main restaurant dining. Specialty restaurant dining*, requires a jacket for gentlemen and a dress or pants and a blouse for ladies every night.
This again could lead someone to believe that formal dress is only required in the main dining room. Um, makes one wonder if Celebrity is deliberately trying to be ambiguous in their pre-booking literature.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bububr
JEANS AND A SWEATSHIRT are not considered CASUAL DRESS by Celebrity. THAT WAS MY POINT. Not that only those wear tuxedos and gowns could attend events.eak adhearance to the dress codes...I get pissed. Sorry if you disagree.
Are we really back to arguing about the fabric of one's pants? If we are, it should be stated that jeans are only prohibited in the main dining room after 6 as per Celebrity's website:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celebrity's Website
Dining in jeans detracts from the overall ambience and is therefore not allowed in the main dining room after 6:00pm.
Jeans are specifically stated as being allowed in the casual alternatives. I could find nothing on their website regarding jeans being prohibited elsewhere on the ship, so lacking any information to the contrary, I would assume that Celebrity finds it perfectly acceptable to go from casual dining restaurant to showroom to casino while wearing jeans. Again, what is printed in the dailies is not the information I rely on, but rather the information available PRIOR to booking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bububr
But look at Jean's cruise history. All of her cruises have been on "budget" and "mainstream" lines that do not have -- and do not expect -- the class of Celebrity Cruises and its passengers. There is a difference. Anybody who cose on a Celebrity cruise thinking that the line's character and ambiance are just like the lines in her list is in for a rude awakening.
Do you really buy into that hype that Celebrity has a better class of passengers? Sorry, it's just not true. I have been on Carnival, Princess, RCCL, and Celebrity and I can say that the cross-section of passengers is equivalent across lines. You will find boorish slobs on Celebrity just as you will find stuckup snobs on Carnival.

As long as all the mainstream lines (and Celebrity IS a mainstream line) are competitively priced, you will find the same cross-section of passengers on each. Believing anything else is just living in your own fantasy world of elitism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bububr
The ship sets the appropriate wear for the evening.
This is probably the truest statement made this entire thread. The ship sets the appropriate wear. They also decide where it applies and how and when to enforce it. Makes what I wear a matter between me and Celebrity and noone else. Being that Celebrity has never complained about my attire, I'll have to assume that they find it acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bububr
Its NOT about what you are wearing its about RESPECTING TRADITION as well as consideration for the other passengers and thier experience.
Anything else is RUDE, SELFISH, and INCONSIDERATE....PERIOD.
Some people wish to dress in a way that pleases themselves, while others wish to dress in a way that pleases themselves AND demand that everyone else dress in a way that pleases them too. Tell me, exactly who is being selfish here?

To put it another way, do you really expect a ship full of 2,000 people to be that concerned with YOUR experience?

It's obvious that this is an endless debate that will never have a clear winner, so I'm done with this thread. Happy cruising everyone!
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 11:28 AM
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Just to let you know...you got a couple of the quotes mixed up.

I have one more scenario that ties in with your logic and please tell me if it makes any sense.

MANY people own cellphones....

Without being "Asked" should a person TURN OFF or PUT ON VIBRATE the ringer of their phone when in a public arena or event?

Lets say a wedding? a funeral? a church service? a movie theatre? a concert or play?

You will most likely say "Yes"

It would be common sense, common courtesy, and simply polite...Why because if the phone rings in a concert hall where people have paid hundreds for tickets they are going to be disturbed,only for a second...but how long is that memory of the ringtone going to last in their minds as they were listening to their favorite song by their favorite singer.

You are at a wedding in church and the officiant is delivering the vows. The ceremony is being taped. Some ones phone goes off and they actually answer it and say "I'll have to call you back". What impression does this leave not only on the newly weds, but on the rest of the attendants?

Its ALL ABOUT RESPECT, and ETIQUETTE.

Its a shame that in most places they NOW HAVE TO ANNOUNCE "Please turn off all cell phones and pagers" including at church services and in movie theatres. Its even more of a shame that many do not.

Now my comparison, call it apples to oranges, is just that. MOST places will politely ASK you turn turn off all cell phones and pagers. By doing so they ARE saying 'WE WANT THEM TURNED OFF FOR THE ENJOYMENT AND RESPECT OF EVERYONE PRESENT' , but that is not what they are saying, is it? no they are asking PLEASE...just as RECOMMENDED is used just as SUGGESTED is used in the description of the dress codes.

Now, thinking about yourself for a moment, You have been dying to see a certain movie, and waiting for the chance. You pay for your ticket and go and sit down at the perfect spot. Your already into this for $15.00 or so with the ticket, and popcorn and a drink........

A woman sits next to you, and the movie starts. Just as something exciting is about to happen her cell phone rings, it rings again, then again, she picks it up....blue screen glowing in the dark like a flare...and answers, " Hello....I'm at the movies...Why...I can't talk...What....", and so on and so on and so on.

Guess what, SHE PAID FOR HER TICKET, just as you did. The theatre only SUGGESTED for patrons to turn off their phones, they didn't REQUIRE or DEMAND it.....

Do you feel like you got your $15.00 worth? was you experience HINDERED by this woman? Did you get what you paid for...She did.

Now I do understand clothing IS different fro cell phones. But my point is that It IS possible for someones anticipated experience to be dampened by someone how CHOOSES to not adhere to policy, whether suggested, asked, or recommended. NO it won't ruin the entire trip, but someone IS NOT GETTING what they paid for, that was advertised, and contracted to by purchasing the experience.

It boils down to common sense. Formal does mean formal. Black tie means black tie...the suggestions for dress while as you state are NOT orders on how to dress but suggestions for the enjoyment of all, not just a few. If the cruise lines DIDN'T CARE, why would they even go through the expence of even posting or advertising suggestions and recomendations. Things aren't always spelled out in black and white. However that does not give us the right to run wild. And if you are unsure there are always resourses that you can search for a clearer answer to your questions.

Jean: I love to wear jeans and sweatshirts all the time, except when I am doing business, or attending a function. A cruise IS a vacation, TRUE...but it is also a function. There ARE guidelines and traditions that SHOULD be followed. IT is not your home, it is a SHIP that belongs to a company that has the RIGHT to set its own policies, whether you agree or not. Most of us adhere to these, and for the few that don't, its like slapping tradition and authority in the face. You have the right to choose to purchase this package or go somewhere else to find a package more to your liking.

If I invite you to my home for a BBQ and a few beers, I EXPECT but will not tell you that everyone will be in casual clothing. If I invite you to a dinner party with other couples I EXPECT you to be dressed accordingly, and I think you would...I wouldn't expect you to change right after dinner into sweats to sit down and talk with everyone after words...and I truly don't think you would. So why would you do this to me on a ship just because you are not in my home.

Dave
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Luvtocruise99

I said I was done with this thread and here I am responding again. I just can't keep myself away.

First off, I apologize for getting some of the quotes mixed up. It gets confusing keeping it straight when multiple people are all quoting each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bububr
Now I do understand clothing IS different fro cell phones. But my point is that It IS possible for someones anticipated experience to be dampened by someone how CHOOSES to not adhere to policy, whether suggested, asked, or recommended. NO it won't ruin the entire trip, but someone IS NOT GETTING what they paid for, that was advertised, and contracted to by purchasing the experience.
But there's the rub. I also want what I paid for, was advertised, and contracted to by purchasing the experience! I was advertised a ship that offers a casual dining alternative for those not wishing to dress formally for dinner. I was advertised this without any disclaimers informing me that utilizing this service would limit my evening's entertainment options.

In fact, I was further led to believe that formalwear only applies to the main dining room by statements on Celebrity's website such as:

For the formal nights, including the Captain's Welcome Aboard Cocktail Party, dinner on the second night, and the Captain's Farewell Dinner held the next-to-last night of the cruise...; - Since this statement was followed by a description of the casual dining alternatives, it can lead one to believe that dress codes only apply to the dining room.

Dining in jeans detracts from the overall ambience and is therefore not allowed in the main dining room after 6:00pm.; - Again, only the main dining room is mentioned in regards to a dress restriction.

Evening dress codes apply to main restaurant dining. - Can't get any clearer than this. Main Restaurant Dining = Dress Code.

The more I read here and on Celebrity's website, the more I'm convinced that Celebrity is talking out of both sides of its mouth. Deliberately being ambiguous so that they can appear to be all things to all people. It would be all too easy for them to clarify these issues if they weren't trying not to turn off potential customers.

Okay, I know I said I was done with this thread before, but I really mean it this time. As entertaining as these boards are, I have a real life to attend to now.
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 04:40 PM
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ARRGGHH!! I'm so confused. You are not helping the new cruiser here. There are so many varied opinions about what is appropriate, and what's not. I chose Celebrity because of it's reputation of being somewhat upscale, and I will be disappointed if there are jeans in the dining room on formal night. I'm really looking forward to dressing up, and not looking like a boob because I'm the only one wearing a formal dress.
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  #85 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 05:25 PM
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Sounds like you chose Celebrity for the RIGHT reasons.

Regardless of what you may read by many posters, X is a more upscale, dressier cruise line. There will always be some like 'Jean' and 'luvtocruise99' that try to fight the system. They feel that since they are paying for a vacation they don't have to follow any rules, or they LOOK for any ambiguities in the codes so they can defy them.

You WILL NOT be out of place in a gown on formal nights, You will be in the majority.

I never feel out of place in a tux, or dinner jacket....

Have a wonderful trip.

Dave
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RCL Monarch OTS - Ensenada 01/11/07
Celebrity Zenith - W. Caribbean 03/23/07
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  #86 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 06:44 PM
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Thank you for the reassurance! There is enough to worry about as a first time cruiser, being overdressed is not one I want to add to my list.
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Old January 23rd, 2006, 08:45 PM
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For the record I got blasted on the RCL board for my opinion on this subject and some over there want nothing to do with the written request involving formal nites.They told me to go back here and now I found it has really heated up.Ido believe that formal nites will continue on both Celebrity and holland and I will continue my numerous cruises with these two lines where some former tradition still has a following.
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old January 23rd, 2006, 09:02 PM
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luv2cruise99,

If it is their stated policy, than they are stating it in the WRONG places. As I said previously, what is printed in the dailies is of little concern to me. It is the information that I am given BEFORE BOOKING that I rely on and it is that information that I expect to be correct and consistently stated between sources (website, brochure, etc.).

Okay, then here'shte information in Celebrity's current pre-cruise information and ticket book (which I received from my travel agent to days ago).

Evening Wear

Celebrity Cruises' elegant, formal evenings nclude the Captain's Welcome Cocktail Party and Dinner, the Captain's Farewell Dinner and a third "formal" night on cruises sailing more than seven nights. The daily program, delivered to your stateroom and available at the Guest Relations Desk, will be your guide to the appropriate attire each evening.

On Casual Nights, choose from the following:
* Pantsuit or sporty outfit for women
* Sport shirt and slacks for men

On Informal Nights, the following is proper wear:
* Dress or pants outfit for women
* Jacket, shirt and tie for men

On Formal Nights, you'll want to be seen in:
* Cocktail dresses or long gowns
* Dinner jackets and dark suits
* Tuxedo (If you do not have a tuxedo, one can easily be rented before you sail through Celebrity's tuxedo representative at 1-800-551-5091. See Tuxedo Rentals section.)


I see only one point of disparity between this and the information provided aboard Celebrity's ships -- the reference to a necktie on informal evenings. If you don't find out that the necktie is optional on informal evenings until you arrive aboard ship, there's little harm done. You can just omit it at the time.

You may consider it a social faux pas, but the many passengers who change after dinner or dine casual and then attend the show would seem to disagree. Too bad not everybody can live up to your social standards.

The standard is not mine. It is the cruise line's.

What part of that don't you comprehend?

Celebrity's website adds more to the confusion with statements such as this:...

Yes, Celebrity's web site is poor and a lot of the information on it is not accurate. By way of clarification, Celebrity's specialty restaurants require the higher of informal attire or the prescribed evening dress. Practically, that means formal attire on formal evenings and informal attire on both informal and casual evenings.

I would assume...

Do you know what happens when you ASS-U-ME???

Don't!

Do you really buy into that hype that Celebrity has a better class of passengers?

I have not seen any "hype" to that effect, and I also would say that "better" is the wrong adjective in this context.

But Celebrity does attract a different class of passengers than the "mainstream" lines. Those passengers generally prefer a more elegant style, and Celebrity delivers it with fewer announcements and fewer casual evenings.

It's a matter of taste. Princess tried to be everything to everybody, but that approach did not work very well. Celebrity did not copy that mistake.

As long as all the mainstream lines (and Celebrity IS a mainstream line)...

No, Celebrity is a PREMIUM line, like Holland America and, at least traditionally, Princess. Unfortunately, Princess seems to have moved "downscale" to the mainstream segment in recent years.

To put it another way, do you really expect a ship full of 2,000 people to be that concerned with YOUR experience?

No. Rather, we expect the cruise line to honor its contractual obligation to deliver what it advertises, as that's the basis on which we purchased its product. If the cruise line advertises formal evenings, we expect it to deliver formal evenings -- and that means ensuring that all who particiapte are dressed accodingly because the dress of those who participates is part of what sets the ambiance of the evening. If it becomes necessary to kick a few louts off the ship because they won't conform, then so be it.

Norm.
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Old January 23rd, 2006, 09:15 PM
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luv2cruise99,

But there's the rub. I also want what I paid for, was advertised, and contracted to by purchasing the experience! I was advertised a ship that offers a casual dining alternative for those not wishing to dress formally for dinner. I was advertised this without any disclaimers informing me that utilizing this service would limit my evening's entertainment options.

Guess what? The line DOES have the causal alternative dining option that it advertised!

But nowhere did the line ever advertise that there would be casual entertainment option, or that casual attire would be acceptable in the main entertainment areas on the formal and informal eveings. Thus, you have no legal claim whatsoever if the line denies you access to the theater in casual attire.

Since this statement was followed by a description of the casual dining alternatives, it can lead one to believe that dress codes only apply to the dining room.

I'll grant you that the company's web site is poor, but the information provided on the ship is quite clear. The ship also provides the option to rent formalwear onboard if you did not bring it with you, so you have a reasonable "out" if you realize only after embarkation that you need formalwear to go to the shows on formal nights.

Norm.
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Old January 23rd, 2006, 09:25 PM
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new to cruise,

ARRGGHH!! I'm so confused. You are not helping the new cruiser here. There are so many varied opinions about what is appropriate, and what's not. I chose Celebrity because of it's reputation of being somewhat upscale, and I will be disappointed if there are jeans in the dining room on formal night. I'm really looking forward to dressing up, and not looking like a boob because I'm the only one wearing a formal dress.

Overall, Celebrity is the dressiest cruise line that I have ever encountered. Many passengers, especially ladies, tend to dress beyond the prescribed attire, especially on informal and casual eveings. It's quite common to see ladies in fancy cocktail dresses even on casual evenings, for example.

Your formal dress will fit in quite nicely on Celebrity's formal evenings. For gentlemen, white tie and tails would be excessive, but ladies have no worry.

Norm.
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