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Old April 6th, 2006, 02:01 PM
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Default Can someone explain casual dining on Constellation & Zen

We were on the Zenith but never tried the casual dining for dinner...is it buffet or from a menu? Also, how about the Constellation? Thanks!
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Old April 6th, 2006, 06:30 PM
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popset,

We were on the Zenith but never tried the casual dining for dinner...is it buffet or from a menu? Also, how about the Constellation? Thanks!

On ALL Celebrity ships, the "Alternative Casual Dining" is in the buffet area, but it is full table service. There is a menu, but I understand that it is a different menu than the main dining room. Reservations are recommended, though they will accommodate walk-ins if they are not full.

There is also a sushi bar in the buffet area in the evening. I'm not sure whether it is part of the "Alternative Casual Dining" or separate. Also, some ships have a pizza and pasta bar that's open from noontime until 1:00 AM on a walk-in basis. The pizza and pasta bar usually also serves Caesar salad made to order.

Norm.
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Old April 6th, 2006, 06:46 PM
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Thanks Norm...we did try the pizza & pasta bar along with the great caeser salads. I'm taking my mom on the 7 night cruise to Bermuda next month on the Zenith and she's not much on dressing up. Just wanted to know what kind of dinners casual dining offered since I don't imagine she'd like pizza and pasta every night. I thought I'd seen a thread where they mentioned it was buffet but with wait service.... Linda
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Old April 6th, 2006, 07:20 PM
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Linda,

taking my mom on the 7 night cruise to Bermuda next month on the Zenith and she's not much on dressing up. Just wanted to know what kind of dinners casual dining offered since I don't imagine she'd like pizza and pasta every night. I thought I'd seen a thread where they mentioned it was buffet but with wait service

Yes, as I noted in my earlier reply, ALL Celebrity ships offer "Alternative Casual Dining" for $3.50 per person with special menus and full table service. They do not use the buffet service lines, even though it takes place in a section of the buffet dining area.

That said, Celebrity would be a poor choice of cruise line for anybody who does not want to dress up for the evening. Celebrity is starting to enforce dress codes in the Celebrity Theater and other entertainment venues as well as in the dining room, and the only "alternative casual entertainment" is stateroom television. Even worse, Celebrity has "informal" evenings, where some degree of dress-up is expected and many passengers dress well beyond the guidelines, in addition to the "formal" evenings that are standard on most cruise lines. Here, "informal" means that gentlemen wear a shirt with a collar, slacks, and a sport coat (necktie is optional) and ladies wear cocktail dresses.

Please have a frank chat with your mom about the expectations for dress on Celebrity. A seven-night Celebrity cruise normally has three "casual" evenings (usually the first evening, the last evening, and one of the middle three eveings when the ship stays in port late), two "informal" evenings (usually the other two of the three middle evenings), and two "formal" evenings (usually the second evening and the next to last evening). If this is not agreeable to your mom, it would be better to take her on a different line where the expectations of dress would better suit her style.

Norm.
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Old April 6th, 2006, 07:28 PM
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I took Mom shopping and bought her several new outfits including a nice pantsuit that she can wear to the show lounge in the evening. She's 85 and I'm sure she'll look fine and hopefully no one would be small enough to comment on her clothing choice. As I said, I was on the Zenith and saw everything from very formal to nice pantsuits.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 03:22 PM
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popsec,

She's 85 and I'm sure she'll look fine and hopefully no one would be small enough to comment on her clothing choice.

I'm not concerned about what a passenger might say to your mom. Most Celebrity passengers have enough class not to say anything to the offending passenger, but to take the cruise line to task for not maintianing the promised formal evening environment by enforcing dress standards when they fill out the survey forms at the end of the cruise. Celebrity apparently has received a LOT of comments about failure to enforce dress standards, and is responding to those ocmments. Aboard MV Mercury in February, I noticed that the daily program stated that the dress standards are "required" rather than "suggested" and there seemed to be some level of enforcement throughout most of the ship.

As far as the theater is concerned, Celebrity now conducts the Captains's "welcome aboard" toast in the theater before the show on the first formal night and the Captain's "farewell" toast in the theater before the show on the last formal night. On those evenings, they have a whole cadre of guest relations staff, cruise staff, and ship's officers at the entrances of the theater. Those staff now have instructions to turn away passengers who are not in proper attire, or at least something reasonably close to the prescribed attire.

Norm.
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Old April 7th, 2006, 04:11 PM
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Why would her wearing a nice new pantsuit make her an "offending passenger"?
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:46 PM
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Hi popsec,

I've never sailed Celebrity so I can't be absolutely, positively sure, but I think your Mom will be fine in a nice pantsuit (unless it's a flower print or something along those lines . )

I can't imagine that she would offend anyone.

I would wear black silky pants and a sparkly top and I'd be writing on the comment card if I was turned away!

(Sorry, Norm, I know you don't like women in pants outfits !)

Hope you and your Mom have a wonderful cruise!
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Old April 7th, 2006, 06:58 PM
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Thanks Fern. I don't want to offend the fashion police but, that being said, my first Priority is to see that Mom has the best time of her life. I'd hate to look back after she's gone and regret that I let anyone's superficialality put a tarnish on this special time we'll have together.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 09:53 PM
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Fern,

[/i]I've never sailed Celebrity so I can't be absolutely, positively sure, but I think your Mom will be fine in a nice pantsuit (unless it's a flower print or something along those lines . )

I can't imagine that she would offend anyone.[/i] (boldface in orignial)

Whether she would offend anyone or not, a pant suit is NOT within Celebrity's guidelines for formal evenings -- and I can also tell you, from first-hand observation, that you will not find many women wearing any kind of pants outfit on formal nights. Celebrity is definitely dressier than all, or at least nearly all, of the other "mass market" cruise lines.

Celebrity's "suggested" evening attire is as follows.

On Casual Nights, choose from the following:
* Pantsuit or sporty outfit for women
* Sport shirt and slacks for men

On Informal Nights, the following is proper wear:
* Dress or pants outfit for women
* Jacket, sport shirt, and slacks for men

On Formal Nights, you'll want to be seen in:
* Cocktail dress or long gown for women
* Dinner jacket, txuedo, or dark suit for men


The pants outfit that you propose would be suitable for informal evenings -- but definitely NOT for formal evenings -- on Celebrity.

I would wear black silky pants and a sparkly top and I'd be writing on the comment card if I was turned away! (emphasis in original)

On Celebrity, there would be at least thirty or forty other passengers writing that they were glad that the line is enforcing its dress policies for every passenger who made your comment. Celebrity is acting to enforce dress codes pretty strictly because they have gotten a setady barrage of negative comments from passengrs about the failure to do so.

Sorry, Norm, I know you don't like women in pants outfits !)

What I like or dislike is NOT the issue here. The issue is the cruise line's policies. Those who don't want to conform to one cruise line's stated policies should book on a different line.

Norm.
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Old April 8th, 2006, 10:11 PM
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OK, Norm.....you've made your point and we shall enjoy our cruise and feel blessed if we don't run into "dedicated fashion police"........maybe we'll just sneak into the show lounge after the lights have gone down
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Old April 9th, 2006, 06:35 PM
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Hi Norm,

Quote:
Celebrity's "suggested" evening attire is as follows.
Celebrity "suggests" that people dress this way. They don't require that women wear dresses. Some women just don't look good in dresses or have some reason to want to be more covered than they are in a dress. As a man, you'll just never understand !

Quote:
(Sorry, Norm, I know you don't like women in pants outfits !)

What I like or dislike is NOT the issue here. The issue is the cruise line's policies. Those who don't want to conform to one cruise line's stated policies should book on a different line.
[/quote]
I know that's not the issue. Didn't you see the ?

When we were looking for our next cruise our TA suggested Celebrity. I told her it was too "dressy" for us. She's cruised Celebrity quite often and assured me that besides DH bringing a sports coat, it would be the same as Princess. Maybe things have changed since February?

I know I'm "beating a dead horse", but I enjoy bantering with you!
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Old April 9th, 2006, 06:49 PM
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You go girl!
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Old April 9th, 2006, 11:39 PM
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Fern,

Celebrity "suggests" that people dress this way. They don't require that women wear dresses.

Stop right there. A "suggestion" from a person in authority carries a very strong expectation of compliance. If your boss "suggests" that you do your work in a certain way, he expects you to do so. When the cruise line "suggests" a particular standard of dress, there is a similar expectation that all passengers will dress in the "suggested" manner.

That said, there are enough ignorant buffoons who don't grasp this concet so Celebrity has now changed the wording in the "Celebrity Today" bulletins delivered onboard. The "Celebrity Today" bulletins now say that the prescribed attire is "required."

Some women just don't look good in dresses or have some reason to want to be more covered than they are in a dress.

I have yet to meet a lady who does not look good in a dress.

If you "want to be more covered," a full length dress with long sleeves and a high neckline is always an option. You don't get more covered than that, even with pants.

When we were looking for our next cruise our TA suggested Celebrity. I told her it was too "dressy" for us. She's cruised Celebrity quite often and assured me that besides DH bringing a sports coat, it would be the same as Princess. Maybe things have changed since February?

I have found that travel agents who are too eager to sell cruises are often a major source of misinformation. Practically speaking, your husband might well get away with wearing a sport coat and tie to the dining room on a formal evening on one Celebrity cruise and be turned away on another. What actually happens on a particular cruise may depend upon many factors. I was on one cruise on which a couple dozen teenagers congregated in a corner of the disco around 10:45 and stayed there well past 11:30 even though the disco is normally "adults only" after 11:00. One of the staff people brought this to the attention of her supervisor, who decided to ignore the situation because they were very well behaved (basically sitting there sipping sodas and chatting quietly amongst themselves) and not bothering anybody -- and so it continued for the rest of the cruise. I would not tell young people that they can go into the disco at will on Celebrity's ships, though -- you can be sure that the staff would have acted if the young people had caused any kind of disruption. In the same way, it's a gross disservice to tell people not to comply with the prescribed standards of dress because violations tolerated on one cruise might not be tolerated on another.

Norm.
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Old April 10th, 2006, 06:48 PM
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Hi Norm,

Quote:
I have yet to meet a lady who does not look good in a dress.
Then you haven't met me! I'm already a "big girl" and black silky pants and a long black sparkly top make me look slimmer (in my mind at least ) When I think I look better and I'm comfortable I enjoy myself more.

Quote:
I have found that travel agents who are too eager to sell cruises are often a major source of misinformation.
Our TA will gladly book us on any cruise we want. That's one reason I found her. Our last TA wouldn't book us on NCL!

Quote:
Practically speaking, your husband might well get away with wearing a sport coat and tie to the dining room on a formal evening on one Celebrity cruise and be turned away on another.
Sorry, I wasn't clear about this. I meant that DH would have to take a sports coat for the informal nights in addition to his dark suit for formal nights.

I'm just curious, what would be the difference in me wearing my loose silky pants or a silky long skirt? Would you really notice? And if you did, would it bother you?

I doubt if we will sail with Celebrity any time soon as we're very happy with Princess or NCL, but I always check the itinerary and prices on every "mainstream" line before we book.

P.S. I am my boss, so I suggest how I work and what I wear !
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Old April 10th, 2006, 06:53 PM
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Hi popsec,

Quote:
You go girl!
Thanks! Norm and I actually agree on about 99.5% of things! This is one "little" thing we don't see eye-to-eye on !
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Old April 10th, 2006, 07:44 PM
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Fern,

Then you haven't met me! I'm already a "big girl" and black silky pants and a long black sparkly top make me look slimmer (in my mind at least )

In most cases, pants seem to emphasize the bulges of "big girls" by pulling snug all around them whereas skirts and dresses usually tend to deemphasize the bulges by draping over them. As a guy who carries a few extra pounds, I find that a sport coat often achieves the same effect. Of course, you could be the exception....

Our TA will gladly book us on any cruise we want. That's one reason I found her. Our last TA wouldn't book us on NCL!

In business, it's said that the customer is always right.

That said, there is also the reality that a customer who lands on a cruise that is a mismatch for his or her style and tastes probalby will not be very happy. Thus, I would think that a travel agent should (1) provide accurate information to the customer and (2) encourage the customer to book on a line that's a good match. I'm realy stunned that some travel agents try to push customers whose style clearly runs along the lines of jeans and T shirts on a line like Celebrity, where the published dress guidelines tend to be a minimum rather than a maxiumum, and even have the audacity to tell such passengers not to worry about the dress code. Such travel agents do a gross disservice to both the passengers and the cruise line.

Sorry, I wasn't clear about this. I meant that DH would have to take a sports coat for the informal nights in addition[/i] to his dark suit for formal nights. [/i]

There is a big difference. This sounds much better! Indeed, I would not have taken exception if you had said that in the first place....

BTW, I have no problem with gents who elect the "dark suit" option for formal evenings because it is within the Ceelbrity's policy.

I'm just curious, what would be the difference in me wearing my loose silky pants or a silky long skirt?

Oh, you're talking about the Arabian harem pants, of a style similar to what Barbara Eden wore in "I Dream of Jeannie?" If so, they certainly are a lot dressier than normal pants....

That said, dress standards do vary from one cruise line to another. I'm aware that several cruise lines do admit a formal pants suit on formal nights. Celebrity, however, does not.

Would you really notice?

It might gepend upon the viewing aspect, but I probably would notice. I probably am more aware of such things than most guys.

And if you did, would it bother you?

The sort of pants that you describe certainly would not grate in the same way that jeans and a T shirt would grate. Internally, I probably would think about the same thing that I think about guys who show up with sport coats and ties on formal night -- they are socially ignorant, but at least they made an effort. Externally, I would do my best to be gracious.

Norm.
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Old April 11th, 2006, 09:57 AM
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To the OP, I am sure you will not have a problem and most people do not care or would say anything at your choice of clothing or your mothers. I think what some are pointing out is that you might be denied entry into certain venues on Celebrity including the dining room. Realistically, it is probably not going to happen for an 85 year old woman in a pants suit but it could.

Don
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Old April 11th, 2006, 10:14 AM
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I realized that the dining room was definately formal so that's why I asked abt casual dining alternatives in the first place. I hadn't planned to try to take Mom into the dining room on formal night. I did, however, want her to be able to enjoy the shows on formal evening...... I'll check with the customer relations desk beforehand so Mom isn't exposed to any embarrassment going into the lounge for a show. Thanks for your input Don!
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May 14-25th, Carnival Fascination...3 B2B's
9/24/07 Carnival Miracle
11/7/07 Carnival Miracle
1/14/08 Fascination
1/18/08 Carnival Miracle (Platinum on this one!)
2/25/08 Fascination
4/21 & 4/26/08 B2B on the Imagination
Future cruises:
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Old April 11th, 2006, 12:04 PM
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popsec,

I hadn't planned to try to take Mom into the dining room on formal night.

In case you are wondering why I am speaking so strongly on this subject, it really breaks my heart that you would plan such a trip with the intention of depriving your mom of the best part of it -- especially if this is a "once in a lifetime" experience for her! I can only figure that you don't really comprehend what she would miss becuase I cannot believe that you would be so cruel as to plan deprive your mother of such an experience, especially when you are paying for it anyway.

Celebrity, like all cruise lines, always goes the proverbial "extra mile" on formal evenings. The formal evenings invariably are the evenings when the dining room serves the best menus, the theater puts on the best shows, and the staff pulls out all ths tops to make it a really special event. The lobster tails and the baked Alaska, for example, always show up in the dining room on the last formal evening of the cruise, and exquisite entrees such as roast pheasant and Peking duck also usually appear on formal evenings. Celebrity also provides extra touches, like intermezzos between courses, only on the formal evenings. The "alternative casual dining" would not do any of this. It does not make any sense whatsoever to plan a very special trip for Mom and then skip the very events that would make it really memorable.

If you prepare to participate in the formal evenings, you can let your mom choose whether she actually wishes to do so or not earlier in the day. If you don't prepare, you may well be scampering to the ship's shops to buy formalwear at full price -- especially after other passengers tell your mom what she missed on the first formal evening!

Norm.
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Old April 11th, 2006, 01:40 PM
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I appreciate your concern for my mother and her wishes BUT.....she's been my mom for 55 yrs and I think I know her as well as anyone. She's NEVER owned a formal outfit in all her 84 yrs.....her idea of dressing up is a new shirt and pants from the Salvation Army. Because of that, I've bought her all new outfits for the trip.......things she'll be comfortable in and still look nice. Her idea of a great dinner out is the buffet line at Ponderosa Steak house so she'd have no interest in the formal dining room. But she does like music and musicals, and good buffets AND she does deserve to feel pampered....that's why I chose the Zenith. I could have chosen one of the mass informal lines but that isn't what I wanted her cruise to be like. I've tried to respond pleasantly to you on this board but I believe you're a clothing snob, who's missing the greater picture in life. So, I shall take my Mom on this cruise, she'll wear her new outfits proudly and I'll pray we don't run into people with nothing more important in their lives than who is wearing what and when.....
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old April 11th, 2006, 02:08 PM
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popsec,

I appreciate your concern for my mother and her wishes BUT.....she's been my mom for 55 yrs and I think I know her as well as anyone. She's NEVER owned a formal outfit in all her 84 yrs.....her idea of dressing up is a new shirt and pants from the Salvation Army. Because of that, I've bought her all new outfits for the trip.......things she'll be comfortable in and still look nice. Her idea of a great dinner out is the buffet line at Ponderosa Steak house so she'd have no interest in the formal dining room.

You seem to be assuming what your mother would like based upon the way that she normally lives. I don't know your mother, but I can tell you from experience that the fact that she has chosen to live frugally -- perhaps because she has lived through significant financial difficulties (including the great depression of the 1930's, the likes of which I hope that you and I never know) does not necessarily mean that she would not enjoy something fancy. Many people of our parents' generation are so fearful of a repeat of the great depression that they won't spend even a nickel unnecessarily. Perhaps she has never owned a formal outfit because she has never needed a formal outfit. Hey, I never owned a dinner jacket (men's formal outfit) until I started cruising, either!

But she does like music and musicals, and good buffets AND she does deserve to feel pampered....that's why I chose the Zenith. I could have chosen one of the mass informal lines but that isn't what I wanted her cruise to be like.

Both published reviews and informal comments on boards such as this consistently indicate that some of the less formal lines actually have better shows and other entertainment than Celebrity.

If you go with any of the better lines, the pamperning also would be no less.

I've tried to respond pleasantly to you on this board but I believe you're a clothing snob, who's missing the greater picture in life.

You obviously don't know me very well, either, because a "clothing snob" is definitely one thing that I am not. As an "elite" member of Celebrity's Catptain's Club, I have tried to suggest tactfully that you have chosen the worst of all possible options.

So, I shall take my Mom on this cruise, she'll wear her new outfits proudly and I'll pray we don't run into people with nothing more important in their lives than who is wearing what and when.....

Okay, let us know how it went when you return.

Norm.
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Old April 11th, 2006, 02:29 PM
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Popsec:

The night you get on the ship is casual dress but the dining room does provide the same experience as the other nights. Your formal nights will be Sunday which is a day at sea and Thursday which is the day you leave Bermuda early in the afternoon. I enjoy the formal nights particularly the last one because thats prime rib and lobster night but as you stated you know your mother best. Enjoy.

Don
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old April 11th, 2006, 03:57 PM
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Default popsec...

Norm is just stating the rules of the road so to speak...so don't shoot the messenger.

After a long anticipated wait for some of us, Celebrity is now getting on top of ENFORCING its dress code. If you are not in adhearance, they will deny you entry into both the main diningroom and theatre. Norm was not being a clothing snob as you say, he was simply trying to help you avoid a potentially ackward situation.

I just returned from the Mercury March 17th sailing....yes, the bleach boat if you haven't heard. I would have to say we had the best dressed crowd I have ever seen, even youngsters in tuxes. Now, bleach was sprayed everywhere, elevators, hand rails, walls, mirrors, tables, chairs....and I didn't stop anyone from putting on their tuxes and gowns. We did see a few fancy pantsuits, but mainly cocktail dresses...some beaded gowns. Actually the 'older' crowd was more decked out than most of the rest of us. there were more tuxes than suits, and on informal nights people were almost as dressed as the formal nights, especially the women.

Now I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't wear. I'm just letting you know what I have experienced a couple of weeks ago.

BTW the shops always have these really nifty looking tops and dresses for women, so If you do find you need to jazz it up a bit...you're in luck.

One of the biggest parts of a cruise is the atmosphere. this includes the "required" dress codes of the evening..( it now says REQUIRED where it used to say SUGGESTED in the dailys). Following the codes is an important part of keeping the cruise enjoyable for ALL.

I'm sure your mom will look fine, I don't think you would have it otherwise. Enjoy your cruise.

Dave
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Old April 11th, 2006, 06:51 PM
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Hi popsec,

Quote:
I appreciate your concern for my mother and her wishes BUT.....she's been my mom for 55 yrs and I think I know her as well as anyone.
Quote:
So, I shall take my Mom on this cruise, she'll wear her new outfits proudly and I'll pray we don't run into people with nothing more important in their lives than who is wearing what and when.....
YOU GO GIRL !

I STILL think your Mother will be okay for formal nights if she wants to go. I really can't imagine her being turned away. I think most people have too much respect for their elders to do that. Now, if she showed up in her thrift shop clothes, that would be different !

Norm said:

Quote:
I don't know your mother, but I can tell you from experience that the fact that she has chosen to live frugally -- perhaps because she has lived through significant financial difficulties (including the great depression of the 1930's, the likes of which I hope that you and I never know) does not necessarily mean that she would not enjoy something fancy. Many people of our parents' generation are so fearful of a repeat of the great depression that they won't spend even a nickel unnecessarily.
This is SO true. My parents (especially my Mother) were just like this. They did take a couple of cruises in the 1970's, but were uncomfortable with the cost. While I certainly appreciate what they left me, I do wish they'd spent more on themselves. Something we all should remember...
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old April 11th, 2006, 07:12 PM
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Thanks Fern!....I really do appreciate hearing a less judgemental point of view If only you knew how hard it was to convince my mom to allow me to buy the clothes I did If I'd tried to buy her something formal that she'd never ever wear again, it would have spoiled her whole cruise. She'd be thinking about the cost the whole time she wore it and it would have negated any pleasure she got from seeing the shows. Trust me on that one!
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old April 11th, 2006, 08:48 PM
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I DO understand popsec!

My own Mother was the same. When we had to hire Home Care for her she was horrified at the cost (even though there was plenty of $$). After the first visit when they had to tell her what the cost was, I never mentioned it again! When she asked, I just said it was taken care of.

My best friend's mother, who was my Mother's best friend, is the same age as your mom. Her daughter's (my friend is the oldest) bought her a new pants outfit for her 80th birthday. They spent about $150.00. Their mother still complains every time she wears the outfit-it was too expensive! I even hear about it when I run into her at the grocery, and it's been five years !

You are so lucky to still have your mom and to be able to take her on a cruise!

I think maybe men just don't have any idea about the relationship between mother's and daughter's. I know my DH didn't!

I know both of you will have a wonderful time!
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2006, 12:07 AM
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popsec,

I really do appreciate hearing a less judgemental point of view

Sorry if I came across as judgemental. I was only trying to communicate the way things are.

If only you knew how hard it was to convince my mom to allow me to buy the clothes I did If I'd tried to buy her something formal that she'd never ever wear again, it would have spoiled her whole cruise. She'd be thinking about the cost the whole time she wore it and it would have negated any pleasure she got from seeing the shows. Trust me on that one!

Just a thought... you might be able to find a really nice dress for your mom that's in nearly new condition at a consignment shop or a thrift shop in your area, at a substantial discount from retail price. Apparently a lot of women buy a dress for a son's or daughter's wedding and decide that they will never wear it again, so they turn to these outlets to unload it. If your mother really won't wear it again, she could do likewise.

Norm.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2006, 09:58 AM
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Apparently you didn't read my last line...I said that if her pantsuit was going to be a problem we'd just go up on the pool deck on formal nights and enjoy each other's company and spend some great time together.

If something should happen to her in the not so distant future (and I pray it doesn't) I'd much rather look back on this week we'll be spending together as alot of happy moments we spent together....not time I spent battling with her to put on a formal outfit so as not to offend anyone.

Since I "get" that you just don't get it, rev22:17, there really isn't anything more either of us can add to this topic........
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old April 12th, 2006, 01:27 PM
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popsec,

Since I "get" that you just don't get it, rev22:17, there really isn't anything more either of us can add to this topic.......

No, I "get it" perfectly well. Let me recount what I "get" from your posts so you will understand that I "get it."

>> You are hell-bent on taking your mother on a particular cruise even though you think that efforts to buy the expected attire for her would start World War III.

>> The result is that your mother will be aboard ship with attire that may or may not be acceptable for the formal evenings, depending upon the judgement of the personnel tasked to enforce the cruise line's dress codes, and thus that your mother may be excluded from events that she would really enjoy.

>> You also have figured out an alternate plan for such a contingency that might or might not be what your mother realy wants to do.

Did I miss anything of real significance?

I also "get" the fact that your mother may be royally PO'd if she learns, after she gets aboard, that she can't go to the events that she would really enjoy, or if she has to buy a new clothes onboard, at full retail price, to go to those events, and that she may make your cruise utterly miserable in that situation -- which is why I have tried to counsel against your plan. You apparently don't "get" that piece of the puzzle.

But do it your way. I give up.

Norm.
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