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Old May 10th, 2006, 09:23 PM
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Default SUMMIT

Celebrity Cancels Alaska Sailing
Celebrity Cruises is canceling the May 20, 2006 sailing Summit Alaska cruise to replace the starboard thrust bearing in the ship's propulsion system. The ship must enter drydock to replace the bearing, The ship is expected to return to its scheduled sailings on May 27. Passengers booked on the cancelled sailing will receive a full refund and a free Celebrity cruise from North America of up to seven nights, departing on or before September 30, 2007, excluding holiday and Celebrity Xpedition sailings
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Old May 10th, 2006, 09:57 PM
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sal7207,

Celebrity Cruises is canceling the May 20, 2006 sailing Summit Alaska cruise to replace the starboard thrust bearing in the ship's propulsion system.

<lament> Unfortunately, this seems to be an annual event on the four ships of the [i]Millennium[/u] class. </lament>

On the positive side, Celebrity's standard compensation of a full refund plus a free cruise for those booked on the cancelled cruise, with full commission plus a rebooking fee to the travel agents, seems quite fair to all affected parties.

The ship must enter drydock to replace the bearing,

<lament> This is why I despise the external pod propulsion systems. With a conventional shaft, the main thrust bearing would be inside the hull where the crew could replace it at sea. </lament>

"Although Summit continues to operate safely, this is a matter that must be addressed now."

Absolutely. The ship is operating on a single propulsion unit, the failure of which would leave her dead in the water -- a very dangerous situation anywhere, but especially so in restricted waters like Alaska's Inside Passage. It makes sense to complete the current cruise, as that will give the yard enough time to get the parts for the thrust bearing, but it's a matter that should not wait any longer than necessary.

Norm.
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Old May 10th, 2006, 10:29 PM
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Hasn't this happen before?? Isn't this becoming a semi yearly event???
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Old May 11th, 2006, 08:46 AM
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Yes it's happened before. I think it happened the 1st time on Millennium's shake down cruise. Hopefully they have learned something from this and their new class of ships will not have the same propulsion system.
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Old May 11th, 2006, 03:00 PM
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thank goodness this happened after our Hawaii trip but it is a great compensation package! Hope not too many vacations/anniversaries etc are disrupted
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Old May 11th, 2006, 04:30 PM
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FieldMouse,

Hasn't this happen before?? Isn't this becoming a semi yearly event???

It has been about an annual event on each of the four ships of the Millennium class since each entered service.

Occasionally I win one, though. I was booked aboard the cruise of GTS Summit that got cancelled last June, and thus went on the same itinerary in peak season (end of July) as a guest of the line.

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Old May 12th, 2006, 02:01 PM
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Good morning, Norm,

Yes, a case of '' deja vu all over again''....While Celebrity is handling the compensation aspect of this one in the usual text book manner, RCL has to be growing quite leery of handling these hits ( PR and $$ ) caused by the now infamous '' premature wear of the radial thrust bearing, starboard aft propulsion system".
If I'm not mistaken, this is #5 in Summit's history, somewhat above the '' average '' for her sisters in the Millie class. I understand the original lawsuit against Chantiers // Alsthom // Rolls Royce // Cegelec // etc etc ( you name them....) has been partly solved with only the one VS RollsRoyce still '' pending negotiations''.... Wouldn't you think that a radical grounding of the entire class, one by one, to simply replace the propulsion system with a more '' traditionnal '' one has not been seriously considered, even thrown in during the legal manoeuverings ???

On the +++ side...I think they can use the upcoming drydock to finally strip the infamous left overs from CDS and return the Revelation lounge to its fabulous original self ?? After all, this was the excuse given when Celebrity '' retought and retweaked'' CDS into a proper show lounge 30 minutes act but left the gasthly and awful residue up in the '' bar at the edge of the earth''....''oh, we have to wait till next drydock to do that...."...Well ??? here it is !!!!

Not to jinx her....but it seems to me Connie has not endured a pod problem similar to her sisters' in quite a while ( if ever...). Do you recall the last '' episode'' ??

I feel bad for the B to B cruisers due to embark 20thMay in Vancouver....while they're treated more than fairly for the Northbound cancelled cruise, nothing is so far offered to accomodate their getting to Anchorage to catch the southbound on 27th....

Cheers
Claude
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Old May 12th, 2006, 02:38 PM
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After reading these threads I just had to call Celebrity and ask them directly, "Whats going on?" (More or less in those words)

Anyway, the customer service representive I spoke with was very nice and somewhat frank in stating right off, that yes they realize this is a on going problem with the Milli class ships...but the compensation is also very nice.
(yes, that is all she said in explanation...maybe I was just asking the right questions in the wrong format!)

The Summit is not set to be drydocked until 2008...which is months after our planned Panama cruise.

Also, we're leaving on the Infinity next week to Alaska...we can only hope all goes well..but if not...what can I say, a free cruise could be nice
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Old May 12th, 2006, 06:04 PM
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Claude,

Yes, a case of '' deja vu all over again''....While Celebrity is handling the compensation aspect of this one in the usual text book manner, RCL has to be growing quite leery of handling these hits ( PR and $$ ) caused by the now infamous '' premature wear of the radial thrust bearing, starboard aft propulsion system".

It has sometimes been the port unit rather than the starboard unit that has first manifest the problem -- not that it really matters that it's one unit or the other.

Wouldn't you think that a radical grounding of the entire class, one by one, to simply replace the propulsion system with a more '' traditionnal '' one has not been seriously considered, even thrown in during the legal manoeuverings ???

That's not exactly a trivial modification. In fact, it probably would be cheaper to build new ships from scratch!

Fundamentally, your proposal would require very major structural changes. Here's a "top level" view of what's involved.

>> 1. Identify location for new motors and routing of new propulsion shafts. Identify new locations for all equipment and spaces in location of new motors and in paths of new shafts. Move equipment, storage, etc., out of said locations. Reroute piping, plumbing, wiring, etc., for relocated equipment as necessary.

>> 2. Remove Azipod units. Replace with conventionsl rudders on stem of same size. Install rudder control system and connect to existing wiring.

>> 3. Reinforce ribs and struts where necessary to support weight of conventional shafts, screws, new motors, and bearings along entire length of each shaft; also to receive transmission of thrust from new main thrust bearings.

>> 4. Cut holes for penetration trhough triple hull and through internal bulkheads in paths of shafts.

>> 5. Install strust sto support shaft bearings and very sturdy struts to support stators of motors and to transmit thrust from main thrust bearings to hull. Also install struts for exterior support bearings

>> 6. Align and intall stators of motors, support bearings and shaft seals, then install shafts.

>> 7. Relocate control units for propulsion motors to new motor rooms. Run cables from generators to new motor rooms, removing old cables, and reroute control cables from bridge to new motor rooms. Connect power and control cables to control units. Also connect control units to motors.

>> 8. Install shaft seals in openings in hull. Verify correct packing of shaft seals.

The first step would be very difficult because modern cruise ships do not have much dead space where you can just relocate some piece of equipment that's in the way of some other piece of equipment. The result may well be a major reshuffling of equipment, systems, and crew spaces to squeeze everything into the space not required for the new motors and shafts. Also, rerouting of wiring may require installation of new cables between the bridge and the control system. I really am not kidding about probably being cheaper to build new ships.

On the +++ side...I think they can use the upcoming drydock to finally strip the infamous left overs from CDS and return the Revelation lounge to its fabulous original self ?? After all, this was the excuse given when Celebrity '' retought and retweaked'' CDS into a proper show lounge 30 minutes act but left the gasthly and awful residue up in the '' bar at the edge of the earth''....''oh, we have to wait till next drydock to do that...."...Well ??? here it is !!!!

Sounds like a good plan to me, but there are two likely issues. I really am not sure that a week is enough time to do that work, so it may need to wait until the next regular drydocking on that score. The more fundamental problem, though, is that the brochures for this year's summer season advertise the "Bar at the Edge of the Earth" aboard GTS Constallation and GTS Summit because they were printed before Celebrity Cruises and Cirque du Soleil announced the restructuring of the program, so reversion to the Revelation Night Club before the end of this summer season might create an issue of false advertising. IOW, the draperies and covers might still be there by fiat of corporate counsel.

BTW, I'm completely miffed that the line actually devoted two pages of each Winder 2005-2006 and Summer 2006 brochure to hawk a program that had a barrage of negative reviews from passengers. Either somebody should have been talking to somebody at corporate headquarters but was not (seems common at this line) or the contract required it and fiat of corporate counsel mandated that it stay until the restructuring became final. In either case, those of us who own stock ought to be asking difficutl questions about this at the company's annual meeting later this month.

Not to jinx her....but it seems to me Connie has not endured a pod problem similar to her sisters' in quite a while ( if ever...). Do you recall the last '' episode'' ??

I don't have dates, but my recollection is that it has been about an annual event on each of the ships of this class. The company might have decided to replace the offending bearings during a regularly scheduled yard visit to avoid an emrgency visit due to a failure.

I feel bad for the B to B cruisers due to embark 20thMay in Vancouver....while they're treated more than fairly for the Northbound cancelled cruise, nothing is so far offered to accomodate their getting to Anchorage to catch the southbound on 27th....

There are ery few passengers who do those two itineraries back to back. If there are any, though, the flight from Seattle to Anchorage is pretty reasonable.

Norm.
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Old May 12th, 2006, 06:09 PM
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Fieldmouse,

After reading these threads I just had to call Celebrity and ask them directly, "Whats going on?" (More or less in those words)

Anyway, the customer service representive I spoke with was very nice and somewhat frank in stating right off, that yes they realize this is a on going problem with the Milli class ships...but the compensation is also very nice.
(yes, that is all she said in explanation...maybe I was just asking the right questions in the wrong format!)


I'm not surprised. The customer service reps don't get much information on the technical side of things.

The Summit is not set to be drydocked until 2008...which is months after our planned Panama cruise.

That just changes. She has to go into drydock to replace the bearings in the Azipod propulsion units.

I have no doubt that Celebrity will take advantage of the yard visit to do any other work that needs doing right now.

Norm.
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Old May 13th, 2006, 12:19 AM
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The Summit is not set to be drydocked until 2008...which is months after our planned Panama cruise.

Also, we're leaving on the Infinity next week to Alaska...we can only hope all goes well..but if not...what can I say, a free cruise could be nice [/quote]

Good evening, Fieldmouse,
1/ GTS SUMMIT is now entering emergency drydock for 4 days from mid-evening 20th May , in Victoria BC.

2/GST INFINITY just emerged from a scheduled 14 day drydock carried out in Freeport; left the yard 1st April; transited from Miami to SanFransisco 2nd April. She'll be OK for your trip, from a ''pod'' standpoint.

About your understandable puzzledness with the response from Celebrity/RCL's customer service......ain't that norm now, all over ??? Frustrating, yes....but seems to have become the standard...Ever tried an airline when something '' strange'' is happening ???

Happy sailings
Cheers
CG
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Old May 13th, 2006, 12:35 AM
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Good evening, Norm,

Well....your 8 points explanation on what's involved in a radical propulsion system change sure puts that one to bed....Thanks for the details. Makes sense.
I suppose RCL is stuck with the possibility of about 1.7 hits / year to the Millie fleet....

Re; Revelation lounge....seems to me it took only 2 days during one of the drydocks triggered by the pods to set up that lounge into the infamous ''bar at the edge of the earth''...since this was done under those conditions, I can only presume the reverse can apply....if they want it to....But, as usual, you make a valid point and Celebrity is stuck in a bit of a legal ''rock and a hard place...''.
But, yes, you're right: they really created that tough spot for themselves by stubbornly advertising in a big way something that bombed so loudly in the first place....
If only I could afford the trip to Miami for the 26th May AGM....yes, I'd have a few questions as well.

Another thing I want your opinion on.....: is it just me, or does it not occur to anybody that GTS SUMMIT & GTS CONSTELLATIONnever had a scheduled drydock yet....a good 4 years into their existence ?? One shudders to think that, if it weren't for the numerous emergency drydocks caused by the infamous '' thrust radial bearing wearing out prematurely'', which created opportunities to fix up // touch up // repaint...these two vessels would be somewhat long in the tooth quite prematurely....IMO anyways....I might be wrong...

Thanks for your advices, right on, as usual

Cheers
Claude
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Old May 13th, 2006, 02:04 PM
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Default Thanks Norm

Well...we're off next week on the Infinity..so we'll have a first hand opportunity to see if Celebrity took the opportunity to spruce her up.

All in all...Celebrity is not a bad Cruise Line...nothing is perfect and we can't be satisfied all the time (but I wish we could!)

We were on the Mercury last year and we loved the ship. Small but nice. Our only problem was our cabin/skysuite was really really really worn (torn drapes, mold in the bathroom, broken chairs, etc.)...but the rest of the ship from what we could tell was in excellent condition. Spotlessly clean and the service was tops. The Mercury just needed to be drydocked for a while.

We've only heard good things about the Infinity...so we have high hopes. But the Summit, well...the reviews have been so far mixed.

Thanks for the imput...You always have something interesting to add to the mix!
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Old May 13th, 2006, 07:49 PM
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Wow, that's pretty interesting! We just disembarked the Summit last Sunday, and didn't notice any problems (but what do we know! There was food to be consumed and games to be played!). The ship was late arriving on the Sunday we left, and we were almost late again returning due to the currents (they said) but didn't notice a thing. Wonder how the repositioning cruise went from LA to Alaska.

I still feel the room rocking at night....
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Old May 14th, 2006, 12:24 AM
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Hi,Jean,

Glad your cruise went on OK...because you sure were not a very happy camper at one time prior to the sailing...But all's well that ends well, right??
Just get better from your ''after cruise'' ailments.
As to GTS SUMMIT, she's not doing as well. The now infamous '' premature wearing of the radial thrust bearing, aft prpulsion system'' reared its ugly head into day 2 of the 13 day sailing to Vancouver , via Alaska, which she sailed away on after you folks disembarked from Hawaii.
Thus, two ports of calls have been scrubbed to compensate for a reduced speed,and to keep the voyage still as a 13 day sailing, still terminating in Vancouver;; the best , soonest and closest drydock yard capable of taking her is Washington Marines in Victoria,BC, where SUMMIT will arrive mid-evening 20th May after offloading its '' cargo'' in Vancouver.
She's scheduled for the now usual 4 day session to replace the offending bearing and sail on to Seward, deadhead, to cycle back into its summer program with a 7 day south bound Alaska cruise.
Celebrity appears to deal with this one in the now standard manner, and offered the customary $200 /person shipboard credit, and free drinks on Friday.
Unfortunately, there is a headline seeker on board , an alleged amateur cruise reviewer, who smelled an opportunity, got a hold of a local media person and got the fire going on a '' mutiny on board the Summit, passengers held hostage,'' etc etc....Getting the usual '' free press'' but not an awful lot of respect or attention ( he deserves neither ).

Life will be back to normal for the great majority of the 1925-odd guests on board; rightfully disappointed but getting on with life and still enjoying an otherwise safe and pleasant 13 day sailing.

Keep well
Cheers
CG
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Old May 15th, 2006, 09:14 AM
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sealegs,

Re; Revelation lounge....seems to me it took only 2 days during one of the drydocks triggered by the pods to set up that lounge into the infamous ''bar at the edge of the earth''...since this was done under those conditions, I can only presume the reverse can apply....

I would like to think so.

Removal of the draperies, chair covers, etc., would be pretty easy. In fact, the crew probably could do that in a few hours. Unfortunately, that's not the whole story.

>> Grime tends to build up under the chair covers, the draperies that wrap around poles, and other places. Cleaning everything so it's presentable again -- including perhaps two or three shampoos of the chairs to get them clean -- is a bit more involved. In reality, they may have to reupholster the chairs.

>> The worse complication may well be the cables that they installed to support the draperies, for which they undobutedly drilled holes through the false bulkheads or whatever else supports them. Drilling a hole takes a few minutes, but repairing a hole requires replacement of the panel or whatever through which they drilled it. If one can't match existing panelling, one may have to replace all of the panelling in the room so the room will look right.

In short, this could be a much worse can of worms than meets the eye. Again, I don't know whether the reason for not undoing the "Bar at the Edge of the Earth" nonsense is the legal issue, the "can of worms" issue, or a combination of both.

Another thing I want your opinion on.....: is it just me, or does it not occur to anybody that GTS SUMMIT & GTS CONSTELLATIONnever had a scheduled drydock yet....

IIRC, both ships received the "Bar at the Edge of the Earth" during a scheduled yard visit that also included a drydocking.
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Old May 15th, 2006, 02:06 PM
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Default summit passengers held prisoners

we are on summit at the moment, la to vancouver travelled from uk booked this annual budgeted holiday 12 months ago.\
we weren't told of the bearign problem until 14 hoursa out of San Francisco our first port of call, we were told by captain that we have no choice, were being given per stateroom $200 and that we were not going to seattle or sitka and the other ports of call would be reduced in time arriving/departing therefore watering down our time at port which we have paid for.
the company have been very cavalier, we are paying passengers and have not had what we paid for , we know for a fact that the captain has admittd that the latest the problem was detected was no more than two hours out of la.

the passengers have revolted, we are trying to meet as groupa nd have beent hreated with armed guards as a mob

we require our rights as the subsequent passengers have had a fullr efund and a free cruise.

is there any us enforcement agency as in uk it is tradign standards that can be used to enforce our rights as comsumers who have not had what we contracted for.
the companya re in breach of contract
please help if possible by replying
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Old May 15th, 2006, 06:17 PM
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paulineandrob,

we are on summit at the moment, la to vancouver travelled from uk booked this annual budgeted holiday 12 months ago.\
we weren't told of the bearign problem until 14 hoursa out of San Francisco our first port of call, we were told by captain that we have no choice, were being given per stateroom $200 and that we were not going to seattle or sitka and the other ports of call would be reduced in time arriving/departing therefore watering down our time at port which we have paid for.
the company have been very cavalier, we are paying passengers and have not had what we paid for , we know for a fact that the captain has admittd that the latest the problem was detected was no more than two hours out of la.

the passengers have revolted, we are trying to meet as groupa nd have beent hreated with armed guards as a mob

we require our rights as the subsequent passengers have had a fullr efund and a free cruise.

is there any us enforcement agency as in uk it is tradign standards that can be used to enforce our rights as comsumers who have not had what we contracted for.
the companya re in breach of contract
please help if possible by replying


U. S. consumer protection laws are quite strong, and you have every right to bring suit.

Before you file suit, though, you should be aware that your case has no meirt whatsoever because the legal contract between you and the cruise line that governs your cruise, called the "Contract of Passage," explicitly states that the cruise line has the right to modify the itinerary, including shortening or cancellation of any port of call, at its option, at any time including during the cruise, with no further obligation to any passenger. Here's the relevant passge, less the provisions that pertain to the land portion of a cruise-tour.

6. Carrier may for any reason, at any time and without prior notice, cancel, advance, postpone or deviate from any scheduled sailing or port of call, or substitute another vessel or port of call, and shall not be liable for any loss whatsoever to Passenger by reason of such cancellation, advancement, postponement, substitution or deviation.... By way of example, and not limitation, Carrier may deviate from any scheduled sailing and may otherwise land Passenger and his property at any port if Carrier believes that the voyage or any Passenger or property may be adversely affected as a result of hostilities, blockages, prevailing weather conditions, labor conflicts, strikes onboard or ashore, breakdown of Vessel, congestion, docking difficulties or any other cause whatsoever.

This is, BTW, a standard provision in the Contract of Passage of every major cruise line. Thus, the cruise line would respond to your suit with a motion for dismissal based on lack of merit, submitting the Contract of Passage as an exhibit and citing the applicable paragaph thereof as basis, with a counterclaim for recovery of legal fees. A finding in the cruise line's favor is virtually certain.

I should also point out that the Contract of Passage requires either party to file any suit pertaining to your passage in a court in Miami, Florida. Thus, you also will incur significant costs to travel to Miami for hearings and other procedings in the courts there. Again, here is the relevant provisin.

11. IT IS AGREED BY AND BETWEEN PASSENGER AND CARRIER THAT ALL DISPUTES AND MATTERS WHATSOEVER ARISING UNDER, IN CONNECTION WITH OR INCIDENT TO THIS CONTRACT SHALL BE LITIGATED, IF AT ALL, IN AND BEFORE A COURT LOCATED IN MIAMI, FLORIDA, U.S.A., TO THE EXCLUSION OF THE COURTS OF ANY OTHER STATE, TERRITORY OR COUNTRY. PASSENGER HEREBY WAIVES ANY VENUE OR OTHER OBJECTION THAT HE MAY HAVE TO ANY SUCH ACTION OR PROCEEDING BEING BROUGHT IN ANY COURT LOCATED IN MIAMI, FLORIDA.

Good luck.

Norm.
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Old May 16th, 2006, 02:29 PM
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I realize the main topics for now are the condition of the ships pods & passenger dissatifaction & behavior..however if the opp arises to get rid of the mess made in the Revelations lounge they should do so....Having loved Summit before & been really disgusted by what they did to a lovely space (saw it in March o our Hawaii trip) they should really take it all out....What were they thinking It was so closed in & dusty & had those awful beds blocking the views...reminded me of the underground scene in Phantom of the opera... We hardly spent any time there due to its ugly condition. Hope the cruisers get a nice comp packagee & also hope they get ride of the mess in revelations...I truly gasped & had my mouth ajar upon first seeing it---
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Old May 16th, 2006, 02:52 PM
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Pauline,

The passengers are being threatened by armed guards??? What sort of behavior brought that about??? I'm shocked!!! And hopefully they didn't have their weapons drawn?? Good grief, sounds like a movie in the making!
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Old May 16th, 2006, 06:40 PM
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hcat,

however if the opp arises to get rid of the mess made in the Revelations lounge they should do so....Having loved Summit before & been really disgusted by what they did to a lovely space (saw it in March o our Hawaii trip) they should really take it all out....

I'm with you on this. I don't know whether the delay is due to the legal issues surrounding the advertisement of the "Bar at the Edge of the Earth" aboard GTS Constellation and GTS Summit in the latest cruise brochure or due to the time required to clean the space and to repair and refinish the panels where they attached cables, etc., to support the draperies.

What were they thinking It was so closed in & dusty & had those awful beds blocking the views...reminded me of the underground scene in Phantom of the opera...

Somebody in corporate headquarters who clearly is missing a few marbles thought that a Cirque du Soleil production would draw a crowd that would fill the room and that surcharges for the masqurede party and other events would turn to instant profits for the company.

We hardly spent any time there due to its ugly condition.

You are far from alone. Other contacts have advised me of cruises on which the cruise directors were in daily meetings and telephone conderences with corporate headquarters trying to fugure out why this debaucle was producing such a nasty backlash from the passengers. Apparently the "Bar at the Edge of the Earth" was generating substantially less revenue than "Revelations." May it ocntinue to do so until they get rid of the trashy decorations!

Hope the cruisers get a nice comp packagee....

Note the quotes from the Contract of Passage in my earlier post. Those who are currently aboard GTS Summit are getting their full cruise, including accommodations, meals, and entertainment aboard the ship. They are not entitled to compensation for shortened or cancelled ports of call.

Norm.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 02:20 AM
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thanks norm and those who bothered to reply

the situation so far is this, we the paying guests who are not being treated famously have not had our full cruise, we have had seattle and sitka removed, with juneau,ketchikan and skagway, shortened, trips pre booked cancelled, we have been to hubbard today!!, we were five miles away from it, pilot wouldn't apparently allow us any further in.

How can you say we are having our full cruise, the entertainment is abysmal, the food is luke warm,tasteless and bland and the accommodations yes we have a bed.

We the disgruntled passengers have not had what we paid for, we have been deceived by the company to reposiiton this ship to victoria at maximum profit to them to put it in dry dock.

please be on the dock at victoria or vancouver and meet approx 1000 dissatified custoemrs, who have not had a satisfactory product we paid for many paying thousands.

please justify why the passengers missing their cruise received money back and a free cruise with the agents getting $50 per booking of the free cruise they ahv enot travelled over 4000 + miles as 50% of this ship has and not had the product we contracted or paid for

as for the armed guards several passengers witnessed the cruise director saying this to passengers and guards have appeared everywhere when we hold our daily meetings which have to be held in the central atrium as they wont let us have a room

two custoemr service reps are stills eeing hundreds of people every day even though they were our only port days after San Fran.

after today debacle at hubbard even more people are up in arms and quite rightly so, they should ahve given us a choice in sf to either continue on the diluted cruise or have our money back and make other arrangements.

pauline and rob
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Old May 17th, 2006, 08:01 AM
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Hmmm, so Pauline, you are saying (since we were on the Summit right before you), they changed the delicious food to bland substances & reduced the terrific shows to "absymal" just to piss you off? I find that very interesting...

I have sympathy for your situation, I'm certainly glad we're not on there. Have you tried contacting the corporate office while you're still on board to see if there is anything they will do? Their # is (800)437-4111, in case you don't have it.

Good luck to you! And FYI, some people are clever enough (my hubby) to get around having to sign the document they require in order to board stating that you accept ALL of their conditions....but I won't say how just yet...
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Old May 17th, 2006, 09:16 AM
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Pauline and Rob,

we the paying guests... have not had our full cruise, we have had seattle and sitka removed, with juneau,ketchikan and skagway, shortened...

No. As disappointing as they might be, cancelled and shortened ports of call do not count as "not had [your] full cruise" from a legal perspective. The only thing that counts as "not had [your] full cruise" is if you spend fewer nights aboard the ship than the duration for which you paid.

... trips pre booked cancelled...

Celebrity undoubtedly refunded those, probably as shipboard credit.

... the entertainment is abysmal, the food is luke warm,tasteless and bland and the accommodations yes we have a bed.

Like others, I find it rather incredulous that these elements suddenly changed especially for your cruise. Rather, you are soundling like spoiled brats who are determined to gripe about anything and everything, making everybody else miserable in the process, because you can't have your way. Neither your fellow passengers nor the ship's staff have any control whatsoever over this, and they deserve better than your 'tude.

We the disgruntled passengers...

Yes, I can tell. Nonetheless, the company is fulfilling its obligation under your Contract of Passage. The problem seems to be your expectation of something more.

... we have been deceived by the company...

No. The company provided the Contract of Passage to you before you booked. If you failed to read it and thus did not understand what you were buying, that's YOUR fault -- not the company's.

... to reposiiton this ship to victoria at maximum profit to them to put it in dry dock.

The ship was scheduled to reposition to Vancouver, with the same date of arrival, before the propulsion problem arose. The company chose the drydock in Victoria because it's where the ship was going to be and thus minimized the disruption to the ship's schedule.

as for the armed guards several passengers witnessed the cruise director saying this to passengers and guards have appeared everywhere when we hold our daily meetings which have to be held in the central atrium as they wont let us have a room

Based on your attitude, I'm surprised that the ship has not dropped you in a port of call. It sounds like your behavior is bordering on threatening to the crew and the vessel.

At this point, I really hope that you are disaffected enough never to book another cruise with either Celebrity or sister line Royal Caribbean.

>> As a frequent passenger, I don't want my vacation spoiled by your 'tude.

>> As a stockholder, I don't want your 'tude spoiling the vacation of other passengers.

But if you are dissatsified enough never to come back, there won't be a problem.

Norm.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 11:28 AM
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Amen Norm!

Pauline & Rob, I'm not saying that you shouldn't be disappointed, even really disappointed...but Geezeee your attitude and conduct is not only disruptive but scarey.

You think that the Captain, crew and staff are specificly taking advantage of this situation? To do what? Like this is some big scheme to: Make more money?? Have more satisfied customers?? Good publicity?? Ahhh yes, I can see how this would seem like a win-win situation for Celebrity!

Don't you think that the Captain conferred with the corp. office FIRST to let them know whats going on, and that the CORP. office is also involve in the decision making?

Do you really think...really believe that by getting up in arms, you are going to FIX the situation and strike fear into the Corp office? And puff, by magic all will be better because you and your cohorts threw a tantrum?

I agree with Norm...I'm surprised you haven't been put off the ship.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 11:29 AM
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Pauline,

What have you been eating that is so bland? One of my tablemates kept trying the fish, and she said that was bland, but everything else we had was delish! Also remember you can have a steak that is not listed on the menu if there is nothing there that attracts your fancy...
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Old May 17th, 2006, 11:39 AM
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The only thing that counts as "not had [your] full cruise" is if you spend fewer nights aboard the ship than the duration for which you paid.

While you may be correct from a legal perspective, you are dead wrong from a customer satisfaction perspective. People become invested in their vacation. They spend considerable time planning it, selecting itineraries and shore excursions, in short they become emotionally involved with what for them is a considerable out lay of funds and a huge investment of time. In short, they have been disappointed by this turn of events.

For the cruise line, or it's investors, to disregard this and hide behind legalize is short sighted at best. Happy customers are frequently repeat customers, dissatisfied customers will not only not return, dissatisfied customers who feel that they have been treated unfairly, or who perceive that the company is uncaring, will give the company uncomplimentary reviews at every opportunity, costing the company potential clients.

I'm not saying that the the monetary compensation is unfair, but I am saying that this situation SHOULD have been handled better.

Additionally, it is apparent from the discussions on these boards that everyone is aware of the problems with the bearings on the aft thrusters. Seems like once a year at a minimum. I would think that unless the cruise line is really asleep at the switch, they must be aware of this ongoing problem. Therefore, they should schedule maintenance more frequently so that they are not canceling sailings and disappointing customers. Unless, of course, they really do not care about customer satisfaction.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 11:45 AM
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fieldmouse,

agree with Norm...I'm surprised you haven't been put off the ship.

JTOL, the 'tude sheds some light on why passengers sometimes "fall" overboard during the night, doesn't it?

When cruise lines put dusruptive passengers involuntarily before the end of the voyage, it's often due to legitimate concerns for safety.

The safety of the disruptive passengers, that is!

Norm.
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Old May 17th, 2006, 10:21 PM
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Hi
On our Summit cruise to Hawaii in April, a group of 5 passengers were put off the ship in one of the ports. They had two teenage boys with them that threw lit cigarettes on my neighbors veranda. We got banana peels. That wasn't the worse they did. They scratched up the interior of one of the glass elevators, not to mention the harassment of the passengers. The adults they were with were strange people as well. The Captain piloted the tender they were in when they left the ship. And we all said good ridence .
We enjoyed our cruise so much, it was so relaxing, especially the days at sea.
Gloria S.
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Old May 18th, 2006, 12:38 AM
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sal7202,

While you may be correct from a legal perspective, you are dead wrong from a customer satisfaction perspective.

No. When people act decently, you reciprocate. When people act obnoxiously with the clear intent of cleaning out the company's coffers, you have to draw the line. How many people would be even more disaffected if the company's generosity put it into bankruptcy?

Both the tone of the previous posts and the actions described therein (essetially attempting to organize a passenger mutiny) more than justify the precautions that the ship took, most especially of having security personnel assume a posture of high visibility.

People become invested in their vacation. They spend considerable time planning it, selecting itineraries and shore excursions, in short they become emotionally involved with what for them is a considerable out lay of funds and a huge investment of time. In short, they have been disappointed by this turn of events.

I'm well aware of both the emotional investment and the possible disappointment. Nonetheless, neither the emotional investment nor any sense of disappointment can in any way justify what these people attempted to do. By their account, the cruise line informed them of the situation immediately and gave them updated information as the situation unfolded. They probably also received a shipboard credit of $100 per cabin or perhaps more because Celebrity does that when changes cause cancellation of ports of call.

For the cruise line, or it's investors, to disregard this and hide behind legalize is short sighted at best.

Overall, Celebrity is one of the best lines on the seas in taking care of people when unforeseen situations arise. If you don't believe me, look at how Celebrity handled the situation when some passengers from GTS Millennium died in an automobile accident that left the two surviving passengers hospitalized with serious injuries while on a private tour in Chile a couple months ago.

Happy customers are frequently repeat customers, dissatisfied customers will not only not return, dissatisfied customers who feel that they have been treated unfairly, or who perceive that the company is uncaring, will give the company uncomplimentary reviews at every opportunity, costing the company potential clients.

Yes, I agree completely.

That said, there are some people who will not be satisfied no matter what you do if something -- anything at all, no matter how trivial -- goes awry. When people make totally unreasonable demands, you have to draw the line.

Additionally, it is apparent from the discussions on these boards that everyone is aware of the problems with the bearings on the aft thrusters. Seems like once a year at a minimum. I would think that unless the cruise line is really asleep at the switch, they must be aware of this ongoing problem. Therefore, they should schedule maintenance more frequently so that they are not canceling sailings and disappointing customers. Unless, of course, they really do not care about customer satisfaction.

Yes, the company is well aware of the problem -- but, as is often the case, the situation is much more complicated than your ideal. Right now, the problem is caught up in a major lawsuit against the manufacturer of the propulsion pods and several other parties. The suit seeks to reclaim damages due to premature wear caused by defective design, and the only way to prove that premature wear is an ongoing problem is to let the units continue to fail. As a result, the company's options are limited until the lawsuit gets settled. The company is seeking reimbursement for all of the compensation that it has provided to passengers on cruises that have been disrupted as well as lost revenue and the cost of additional drydocking and actual repairs to the propulstion units over the life of the vessel.

Norm.
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