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Old June 9th, 2006, 12:37 PM
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Default Norovirus on Mercury

The Seattle Times is reporting that the Mercury returned to Seattle this morning with 115 passengers and 3 crew sick with the Norovirus.

Just thought you would want to know.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...rovirus09.html
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Old June 9th, 2006, 02:03 PM
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Although Europe is currently having the"bug", Alaska year after year after year seems to have so many of these"bugs" on many ships.

I wonder why this destination seems especially hard hit every summer?

I'm going in three weeks on the Regal Princess to Alaska....hope its not on that ship again.
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Old June 11th, 2006, 01:00 AM
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We just had a wonderul wk aboard Mercury and returned June2 to Seattle , with no evidence of any norovirus issues, so this news is a surprise. One of our friends just boarded this wk for the cruise on same ship. Alaska is beautiful , and the crew and cuisine aboard Mercury is Great !
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Old June 11th, 2006, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie1207
Although Europe is currently having the"bug", Alaska year after year after year seems to have so many of these"bugs" on many ships.

I wonder why this destination seems especially hard hit every summer?

I'm going in three weeks on the Regal Princess to Alaska....hope its not on that ship again.
I was on the infamous Mexican Bleach cruise on Mercury 27 March this year. That was the third Mexican cruise in succession to have norovirus on board. In England cruise ships are being kept in port and cruises cancelled to enable the vessels to be properly cleaned rather than gassing the passengers with chlorine bleach
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Old June 11th, 2006, 09:42 PM
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We are a group of 10 just returning from The Mercury and 6 of us got the norovirus. One sick enough the couple is still in Seattle because he was too sick to travel. The rest of us made it home but four of us are still sick. That said it was a great cruise and the service and food on Mercury are still top notch. It wasn't a great way to end the week but we'd sail the Mercury again.
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Old June 12th, 2006, 07:05 PM
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Default virus where?

The norovirus strikes everywhere! A couple of weeks ago several folks on river rafts on the Colorado River thru the Grand Canyon were sick with it.

So, it certainly isn't just a pain on the "big" boats.
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Old June 13th, 2006, 09:57 PM
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Folks,

I'm really tired of the whining about an occasional outbreak of Norovirus aboard a cruise ship. This disease is present in our society, but outbreaks on land seldom get detected only because the people who get infected in a restaurant or some other public place are likely to be elsewhere when the symptoms surface.

There is nothng whatsoever that a cruise line can do to prevent a person who is contagous from boarding a cruise ship because the disease is contageous in the period before it manefests symptoms. With normal sanitation (for example, washing hands after using the toilet), though, your chances of catching the disease aboard ship are pretty slim even if there's an outbreak.

Norm.
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Old June 16th, 2006, 09:42 PM
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Norm
If you spent 4 grand on your vacation and were sick as a dog, confined to your cabin and waisted your vacation time from work.....How mad would you be?(especially when the crew on board had 200 cases confirmed before you ever boarded the ship)

Been there....done that... its no laughing matter... maybe its not a big deal to you, but if you had been in my shoes and 400 other passengers when it happened you might understand how it ruined a week of my life not to mention the price for the cruise, airline tickets and hotels.
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Old June 17th, 2006, 04:17 PM
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What cookie says is quite true Norm. Sure Noro exists in other places, especially schools and offices, but when that happens it doesn't ruin a vacation you've saved for all year. Also despite better education and better sanitation, Noro seems to be a more frequent passenger on ships now than it was before! The cruise lines are going to have to come up with better ways to deal with it, or it's just a matter of time before it starts to take a financial toll on the entire industry. Hint, building mega ships is NOT the answer.
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Old June 19th, 2006, 06:16 PM
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cookie,

If you spent 4 grand on your vacation and were sick as a dog, confined to your cabin and waisted your vacation time from work.....How mad would you be?(especially when the crew on board had 200 cases confirmed before you ever boarded the ship)

I might be quite frustrated -- but I would also resist the temptation to blame the cruise line unless and until I had conclusive evidence that the cruise line was somehow negligent. I would not presume negligence based solely on the fact that there might have been some sick people aboard the ship during the previous week -- which seems to be what a LOT of people do. Factually, it's more likely that somebody would contact Norovirus on a plane traelling to the port of embarkation than aboard the ship.

Norm.
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Old June 19th, 2006, 06:25 PM
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richstacy,

Also despite better education and better sanitation, Noro seems to be a more frequent passenger on ships now than it was before! The cruise lines are going to have to come up with better ways to deal with it, or it's just a matter of time before it starts to take a financial toll on the entire industry. Hint, building mega ships is NOT the answer.

It also may be an issue of (1) passengers g98hg to the media in the hope that publicity surrounding sickness will bring them generous compensation and (2) media overly eager to publicize negative stroies about cruise ships and cruise lines in the hope of bringing down the industry. In the interest of staying on topic, I'll refrain from discussion of motivation for doing so.

That said, your point about building larger ships is well taken. There's no doubt (1) that larger ships provide an opportunity for Norovirus to infect more people than smaller ships, (2) that cruise lines will be a lot more reluctant to take a large ship out of service for a week to clean it up, and (3) that the clean-up of a large chip will be a llot more difficult than the clean-up of a small ship.

Norm.
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Old June 19th, 2006, 06:37 PM
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Norm, in your response to Cookie, you are really reaching. When sick people leave a ship in the morning and they load 2,000 or so unsuspecting passengers on that same ship the same afternoon, and they start getting sick about 15 hours later by the dozen, I really don't think there is much chance they brought it with them from the airplane.

We were in exactly that situation recently, and after they had us all aboard and we had sailed away, they made an announcement that she ship was infected and was in "code red," and what we should do to "protect ourselves." We all did what they said and the illness was thereby somewhat limited and within two weeks was pretty much a memory. But still cookie is exactly right.
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Old June 20th, 2006, 01:03 AM
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Default Norovirus on Mercury

I have been watching this thread with interest. We were on the Sun Princess to Hawaii a couple of years ago when the virus struck. Over 400 folks got it, and the cruise was terminated after 10 days of a 15 day voyage. It was apparently brought aboard by a sick passenger, and within 5 days was rampant throughout the ship. The crew did their best to disinfect without success. Part of the problem was that some folks who had it wouldn't go to sick bay for fear of being quarantined. So other folks who might not have got it were infected. We were lucky & were not affected. We made an effort to be extra clean and avoided the buffet, eating only in the dining room. Since that time on subsequent cruises we have been as careful. On Oct. 30th we will be sailing on the Mercury for the third time in the past 2 years. I have always found the ship clean, and the crew working hard to keep it that way. I agree that the virus is out there more & more these days and it's a problem that the cruise lines continue struggle with. Hopefully they will find a way to deal with it in the future.
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Old June 29th, 2006, 09:58 PM
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I find it curious that norovirus keeps reappearing on the Mercury. We were part of the "bleach cruises" in March and there was so much bleach left on every surface of this ship, you would think no germ would ever survive again!
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Old July 7th, 2006, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
It also may be an issue of (1) passengers g98hg to the media in the hope that publicity surrounding sickness will bring them generous compensation and (2) media overly eager to publicize negative stroies about cruise ships and cruise lines in the hope of bringing down the industry. In the interest of staying on topic, I'll refrain from discussion of motivation for doing so.
I'd be interested in hearing your rationale as to why the media have vested interest in singling out and bringing down the industry. People have short enough attention spans as it is, and there is no shortage of scandal to distract us from how badly we're being fleeced by any number of groups. The media's motivation is ratings, not to specifically bring down an industry. As someone who has worked in the news industry, the problem goes back to turning the news into a profit center rather than something truly in the public interest. Cruise ship illnesses, celebrity gossip, airplane crashes, and high speed chases are mental fast food that people are addicted to, and if it isn't a cruise ship, it will be the next presidential peccadillo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
That said, your point about building larger ships is well taken. There's no doubt (1) that larger ships provide an opportunity for Norovirus to infect more people than smaller ships, (2) that cruise lines will be a lot more reluctant to take a large ship out of service for a week to clean it up, and (3) that the clean-up of a large chip will be a llot more difficult than the clean-up of a small ship.

Norm.
Cruise lines are reluctant to take a ship out of service at all. I was crew on Merc for the Bleach Cruises, and it was mostly bureaucratic ineptitude (If you are a pessimist, greed) that led to the problem getting as bad as it did. You also have passengers (*cough* 'scuse me... GUESTS) who flat out refuse or don't care enough to wash their hands in line while basically on a closed environment similar to a 2800 person airplane. The point above abou biger ships is well taken. There will be a critical mass at which the sanitation requirements vs. the realities of human behavior will not compute.
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Old July 7th, 2006, 01:23 PM
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reddawnman,

The media's motivation is ratings...

Which is why ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN have done absolutely nothing to reverse the slide in their ratings while the ratings of Fox News Network continue to grow???

I'd be interested in hearing your rationale as to why the media have vested interest in singling out and bringing down the industry.

When the Communist Party (or sometimes the Socialist Party) sought to gain political power in the nations of Western Europe during the cold war, they first gained control of (1) the educational system (public schools and universities), (2) labor unions (with a work force that was nearly totally unionized), and (3) the significant media outlets (newspapers, radio and television broadcasting, etc.). This gave the party complete control over the flow of information to the general population and thus the ability to control public opinon by filtering the information that they actually passed along to the masses. The "filtering" may have come through selective reporting (omission of details -- or even suppression of whole news items -- that were adverse to their agenda) and slanted reporting.

There are some strange parallels with so-called "libaralism" in America, which seeks to advance the Socialist/Communist agenda. Note that "liberalism" dominates the major media, acadamia and public educational systems, and union leadership. Fortunately for us, a couple significant influences have thwarted the ability of this influence to control public opinion.

>> 1. Labor unions now represent less than ten percent of the American work force.

>> 2. Alternative media (conservative newspapers such as the Boston Herald, the New York Post, and the Washington Times, often denigrated as "rags" by those who disagree with them, radio talk shows that vet issues more thoroughly than traditional news outlets through popular discussion, where liberal hosts have failed to make inroads because their positions lack logical coherence, and the Internet, where blocks and discussion boards like these provide a substantially free interchange of ideas, for example) have become significant sources of information for many people.

The result is that many people hvae turned away from the propaganda spewn forth by traditional media and tuned into the alternative sources of information.

Incidentally, the traditional media has also undermined its own standing in the minds of many people in recent years, even resorting to fabrication of "news" when the truth did not meet its purpose. Consider, for example, story about the President's service record that CBS invented during the last presidential campaign, in which a few bloggers exposed the fact that the documents could not have been authentic....

When you consider that corporations (or at least corporations not controlled by "liberals" whose purpose is to advance the "liberal" agenda) are evil in the "liberal" view of the major media, it's not really surprising that the major media would blow a story about illness on a cruise ship way out of proportion in the hope of falling, or at least seriously injuring, the cruise line.

Norm.
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Old July 7th, 2006, 04:07 PM
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I for one watch several satellite stations when I want world news. I get bore with local news coverage, which gives you 30 seconds of REAL news and the rest of the time is devoted to the complete coverage of sports!

It feels a lot like the old Roman saying, "Give them bread and Circuses' that will keep the masses in check!
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Old July 7th, 2006, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
reddawnman,

The media's motivation is ratings...

Which is why ABC, CBS, NBC, and CNN have done absolutely nothing to reverse the slide in their ratings while the ratings of Fox News Network continue to grow???

I'd be interested in hearing your rationale as to why the media have vested interest in singling out and bringing down the industry.

When the Communist Party (or sometimes the Socialist Party) sought to gain political power in the nations of Western Europe during the cold war, they first gained control of (1) the educational system (public schools and universities), (2) labor unions (with a work force that was nearly totally unionized), and (3) the significant media outlets (newspapers, radio and television broadcasting, etc.). This gave the party complete control over the flow of information to the general population and thus the ability to control public opinon by filtering the information that they actually passed along to the masses. The "filtering" may have come through selective reporting (omission of details -- or even suppression of whole news items -- that were adverse to their agenda) and slanted reporting.

There are some strange parallels with so-called "libaralism" in America, which seeks to advance the Socialist/Communist agenda. Note that "liberalism" dominates the major media, acadamia and public educational systems, and union leadership. Fortunately for us, a couple significant influences have thwarted the ability of this influence to control public opinion.

>> 1. Labor unions now represent less than ten percent of the American work force.

>> 2. Alternative media (conservative newspapers such as the Boston Herald, the New York Post, and the Washington Times, often denigrated as "rags" by those who disagree with them, radio talk shows that vet issues more thoroughly than traditional news outlets through popular discussion, where liberal hosts have failed to make inroads because their positions lack logical coherence, and the Internet, where blocks and discussion boards like these provide a substantially free interchange of ideas, for example) have become significant sources of information for many people.

The result is that many people hvae turned away from the propaganda spewn forth by traditional media and tuned into the alternative sources of information.

Incidentally, the traditional media has also undermined its own standing in the minds of many people in recent years, even resorting to fabrication of "news" when the truth did not meet its purpose. Consider, for example, story about the President's service record that CBS invented during the last presidential campaign, in which a few bloggers exposed the fact that the documents could not have been authentic....

When you consider that corporations (or at least corporations not controlled by "liberals" whose purpose is to advance the "liberal" agenda) are evil in the "liberal" view of the major media, it's not really surprising that the major media would blow a story about illness on a cruise ship way out of proportion in the hope of falling, or at least seriously injuring, the cruise line.

Norm.
Wow. Quite vituperative.

First off, CNN, ABC, and the other outlets have done quite a bit to try to reverse the slide in their ratings. CNN, which I am sure you believe "hates america," Has allowed the corpulent Lou Dobbs off of his leash to imitate Bill O'Reilly's style of op-ed journalism that panders to one side.

As for fox's ratings, you should check your facts a little bit more. Fox's ratings have been in freefall for most of 2006, with them losing about 22% of their audience. Admittedly the industry has seen a drop as a whoile, but nothing on the order of nearly 1/4 of their viewers.

Sources can be found both by Googling "Fox News Ratings" and here:

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/

Note that one can say Fox still beats CNN, because they do. However, comparing this July 4 to the same time last year, Fox is not having a good time of it.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200606280009 (Liberal slant in opinion)

http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6346894.html (Industry Newsmagazine)


http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2005

(Though you might dismiss the above article as communist propaganda, as someone who has worked in the industry, it is a valid point that there is a big difference between cume and share, though I believe the editorial aspects of the analysis lean to the left. CNN would love to have Fox's share and Fox CNN's cume.)

Second, I would agree with your statement that people are distrustful of the mainstream media (Hence the ratings drop across the board) and seem to be going towards alternative sources for news. The trouble is, the alternative sources of news that you mention are all partisan in nature, and i is clear to me that where we get our news is becoming increasingly tuned to what we want to hear, which in my mind is a bad thing. When ClearChannel Communications owns both the Local Air America Affiliate AND the Conservative KOGO station in my neighborhood, I find something sinister about the fact that our news is funneled into bite size chunks that we don't want to question because it is exactly what the people those stations are marketed to want to hear.

Third, lets take a look at something:

http://www.opensecrets.org/industrie...2006&ind=C2300

http://www.opensecrets.org/industrie...2006&ind=C2200

http://www.opensecrets.org/industrie...2006&ind=C2100

http://www.opensecrets.org/industrie...e=2006&ind=B02

Each of these data present a different picture of which way a news organization's management and ownership "leans" when it comes to who they favor with their pocketbooks during a political campaign. I notice that aggregate in the industry (bottom most link) supports your point that the media is "Liberal Controlled." However, among Cable TV stations (link ending in 2200) one could say that it is about a 50/50 split. Of course, looking at the link ending in 2100 for TV/Radio stations, it appears that the money is going to republicans more than dems.

Which to believe? Well, if you are looking at fox news, they will tell you to believe that its a liberal media, and if I were to listen to air america, they will tell me that it's a right wing world. It is a matter of perception and fact checking that nobody seems to want to be bothered with so long as you feel vindicated in your asumptions.

The one thing I notice about your response to my last post is that it contains only opinion. That is fine, and I welcome it, but understand from a media literacy standpoint that when you hear something that you disagree with and dismiss out of hand without checking the facts or for different opinions on, or when you hear something that you tend to agree with and don't question its source, you are doing something that Jefferson, Madison, and Franklin strongly warned us of.

"A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both." -- James Madison

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Ask yourself these questions more often. In fact, I Invite you to ask these questions in response to my post. I certainly have to yours. The trouble is that 98% of the people watchign TV don't even know what questions to ask, and that is a damn dangerous thing.
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Old July 7th, 2006, 10:37 PM
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Dam, ask you guys what time it is and you tell us how to build a watch. If I want to read a book, I'll go to the library. Gosh guys lighten up.
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Old July 7th, 2006, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cruise Guy
Dam, ask you guys what time it is and you tell us how to build a watch. If I want to read a book, I'll go to the library. Gosh guys lighten up.
Sorry to have hijacked the thread. Should have PM'd with my first Q.

nothing more to see here..
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Old July 8th, 2006, 02:41 PM
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reddawnman,

Wow. Quite vituperative.

Really? I was trying to answer your question objectively....

As for fox's ratings, you should check your facts a little bit more. Fox's ratings have been in freefall for most of 2006, with them losing about 22% of their audience. Admittedly the industry has seen a drop as a whoile, but nothing on the order of nearly 1/4 of their viewers....

Thanks for passing along this information. I had not caught up with such changes yet. I'm curious as to what might have brought such a change in dynamics, if in fact it reflects something other than a difference in the region of survey.

Each of these data present a different picture of which way a news organization's management and ownership "leans" when it comes to who they favor with their pocketbooks during a political campaign. I notice that aggregate in the industry (bottom most link) supports your point that the media is "Liberal Controlled." However, among Cable TV stations (link ending in 2200) one could say that it is about a 50/50 split. Of course, looking at the link ending in 2100 for TV/Radio stations, it appears that the money is going to republicans more than dems.

Yes, and that's why I was careful to distinguish between the traditional major media and the other sources that have emerged in the last two decades or so. In the world of cable television, though, I dare say that Fox News is the only major non-liberal news channel.

The one thing I notice about your response to my last post is that it contains only opinion.

Very little of what I wrote is actually opinon. Most of it is analysis, which attempts to be objective even though I express it concisely. It's possible that the recent data in your links might change some of the analysis and the consquent conclusions.

Which to believe? Well, if you are looking at fox news, they will tell you to believe that its a liberal media, and if I were to listen to air america, they will tell me that it's a right wing world. It is a matter of perception and fact checking that nobody seems to want to be bothered with so long as you feel vindicated in your asumptions.

The claim that Fox News is conservative is seriously flawed. In fact, Fox News is the only network is the only network on which I consistently find liberal commentators and guests who present self-consistent rational arguments in support of liberal positions, in stark contrast to the slimy "feel-good" blather presented by the traditional major media that does not withstand critical analysis.

BTW, I should also point out that Air America is barely clinging to life. Most liberal talk shows seem to have hosts who present "feel-good" blather that conservative collers easily rip to shreds, if allowed on the air. The result is a lack of credibility among the majority of listeners, who soon go elsewhere, so the commentators end up "preaching to the choir."

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Yes, those are very tood questions to ask about everything -- including what we read in our newspapers and see in newscasts on television. They are the very sorts of questions that philosophers, theologians, and scientists all ask routinely as part of our training.

The trouble is that 98% of the people watchign TV don't even know what questions to ask, and that is a damn dangerous thing.\\

Yes. Unfortunately, one of the great failures of our school systems is to train students in this sort of critical thinking. The result is people who believe what they read in The Enquirer....

Anyway, I was trying to answer your original question as concisely as possible. I do lean toward the conservative side of many political issues, but not without asking a lot of tough questions in the process. The thing that stands out to me is that you did not take exception to the basic thrust of my points. Rather, I think that the basic tenet stands on pretty solid ground.

Norm.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 02:44 PM
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The Cruise Guy,

Dam, ask you guys what time it is and you tell us how to build a watch.

**

That really is a great line!

I honestly tried to answer the original question as concisely as possible, but it seemed necessary to provide some degree of explanation so the answer would make sense. Sorry if it was more verbose than you might have liked.

Norm.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
BTW, I should also point out that Air America is barely clinging to life. Most liberal talk shows seem to have hosts who present "feel-good" blather that conservative collers easily rip to shreds, if allowed on the air. The result is a lack of credibility among the majority of listeners, who soon go elsewhere, so the commentators end up "preaching to the choir."

Anyway, I was trying to answer your original question as concisely as possible. I do lean toward the conservative side of many political issues, but not without asking a lot of tough questions in the process. The thing that stands out to me is that you did not take exception to the basic thrust of my points. Rather, I think that the basic tenet stands on pretty solid ground.

Norm.
I disagree with your assertion that the mainstream media is liberal, but I can understand your point. It is, again, mostly in the eyes of the recipient. However, AA is not "Barely Clinging to life." In the SD Market, at least, it is consistently up in the top 2 of News/Talk Formats. I will agree that some of their more socialist-leaning commentators are too far left fo my taste, but calling it all "Feel good blather" is the same as me calling you a Right-Wing Fascist Whacko. :-) I could go as far as to point out that when you call in to a radio talk show, the slant of the host determines how you are recieved, and every time I hear a liberal call in to a conservative program, they are turned "down" in the volume and berated by the host without being given a chance to articulate their point. Again, on both sides, people preach to the choir oo much. BTW, your point about hannity and colmes is something I'll disagree with. Every liberal commentator that I see on FNC is someone I've never heard of before that is a punching bag to the Conservative argument. Put James Carville, Molly Ivins, or Greg Palast in place of the liberal punching bag that is Alan Colmes, and then we'll have a balanced debate :-)

Also keep in mind that when one screens calls or casts hosts, one can determine the perception the audience has of the intelligence level of the opposition. On both sides of the fence, I have heard uninformed Conservatives and Liberals put on the radio or on TV as cannon fodder, when most listeners with those dissenting views who take the time to do the research can make better points than what was put on the air.

I think my point was mostly that while you say the mainstream media is liberally biased (And I say Fox leans strongly to the right), I say it is becoming a moot point because the type of "news" that makes up 70% of the reports is unimportant, on both Fox and CNN. I don't really care about Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, nor do I want to see a high-speed chase that is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and I really don't care about cute cuddly kittens followed by a commercial for beer.

Thanks for giving me an intelligent response instead of a flame. I might disagree with your political views, but at least now you can say you've met a somewhat informed liberal, and I can say I've met a conservative who doesn't retort with "You want the terrorists to win, don't you!" :-)
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Old July 8th, 2006, 10:27 PM
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reddawnman,

BTW, your point about hannity and colmes is something I'll disagree with. Every liberal commentator that I see on FNC is someone I've never heard of before that is a punching bag to the Conservative argument.

That has been far from my experience. In fact, I have developed considerable respect for Alan Colmes because he puts forth rational and coherent explanations of his views that are intellectually honest. The same is true of NPR's Juan Williams and Maura Liaison (sp?), who often appear as panellists on Brit Hume's Special Report, Dick Morris, who often appears in discussions of elections and political polls, and many of the other liberal guests. I often agree with points that they make during the course of discussion.

Put James Carville, Molly Ivins, or Greg Palast in place of...

I could be wrong, but I think that James Carville has appeared on some of the Fox News segments on political strategy.

I think my point was mostly that while you say the mainstream media is liberally biased (And I say Fox leans strongly to the right), I say it is becoming a moot point because the type of "news" that makes up 70% of the reports is unimportant, on both Fox and CNN.

Then your perception of the center is pretty far to the left of mine. I would say that I am somewhat to the right of center, but I'm also far from the conservative hard core.

I don't really care about Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt, nor do I want to see a high-speed chase that is insignificant in the grand scheme of things, and I really don't care about cute cuddly kittens followed by a commercial for beer.

On that, I agree completely!

Thanks for giving me an intelligent response instead of a flame.

You're welcome.

I might disagree with your political views, but at least now you can say you've met a somewhat informed liberal, and I can say I've met a conservative who doesn't retort with "You want the terrorists to win, don't you!"

No. I reserve the "You want the terrorists to win, don't you!" response for those who earn it by their actions -- folks like John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pilosi, Harry Reed, John Murtha, and Barbara Boxer, who are trying to force us to leave Iraq in the middle of real inroads against the insurgents. You did not earn such a response.

Norm.
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Old July 8th, 2006, 10:44 PM
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WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ORIGINAL POST? Both you guys need to get over yourselves.
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Old July 9th, 2006, 06:05 PM
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There's a reason why there are so many over at the other boards these days!
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Old July 10th, 2006, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Cruise Guy
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ORIGINAL POST? Both you guys need to get over yourselves.
I say, we don't have to read their post if we don't want too...we can just skip it if we find the conversation boring, to detailed or ???...I mean, they seem to be having a nice time...so, WHY NOT just let them carry on? It's no biggie.
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Old July 10th, 2006, 11:02 PM
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Because this is not the place for it. You have been on this board long enough to know that.
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Old July 11th, 2006, 10:05 AM
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Ouch
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Old July 11th, 2006, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
I say, we don't have to read their post if we don't want too...we can just skip it if we find the conversation boring, to detailed or ???...I mean, they seem to be having a nice time...so, WHY NOT just let them carry on? It's no biggie.
I agree. And I do think that this is "cruise related" as it may or may not point out the media's "obsession" with digging for "bad news" about cruising (or anything else!).

Have at it, Norm and reddawnman !
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