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Old November 17th, 2006, 08:59 PM
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Default Another Azipod Problem...

Everybody,

Looks like it's the "grand annual" for GTS Millennium. Celebrity has announced cancellation of the sailing of 10 December.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Linked Article
Celebrity Cruises is canceling one sailing on Millennium to replace the port thrust bearing in the ship's propulsion system. The ship must enter drydock to replace the bearing...
With a conventional propulsion system, the thrust bearings would be inside the hull where the crew could replace them underway....

Norm.
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Old November 17th, 2006, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: Another Azipod Problem...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Everybody,

Looks like it's the "grand annual" for GTS Millennium. Celebrity has announced cancellation of the sailing of 10 December.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Linked Article
Celebrity Cruises is canceling one sailing on Millennium to replace the port thrust bearing in the ship's propulsion system. The ship must enter drydock to replace the bearing...
With a conventional propulsion system, the thrust bearings would be inside the hull where the crew could replace them underway....

Norm.
Good evening,Norm.

....and on and on it goes....I'm still dumbfounded as to why they ( X ) simply don't program a regular preventive maintenance program around what has clearly become an almost annual and predictable event: the '' premature wearing of the port // starboard ( circle as applicable) thrust bearing ''for GTS SUMMIT,INFINITY and ( to a lesser extent) MILLENIUM.
I bet well over half of the disruptive reactionnary emergency drydockings would be avoided....and you can only imagine how much better the physical and mechanical plants would be maintained...

At least, THIS particular episode is not as convulated in its impact as previous events. Parts ordered for the yard ( presumably, Freeport), slow her down on tha TA ( cut out Naples and allegedly Livorno ), cabcel a standard 7 day Carribean cruise in low season, get it done, and voila !!!
Standard ( and quite generous) compensation....and jot another one in the books......

Cheers
Claude G
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Old November 18th, 2006, 07:02 AM
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ALOHA Norm !

Did the Hawaii cruise come up to expectations? Missed you on CCL forum!

Seems like azipods are a bit too prone to this sort of thing !

Regards Norm (UK)
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Old November 18th, 2006, 12:40 PM
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No real fixes from the pod makers for this problem.....hope the next Celebrity generation of ships goes with different type(brand) of propultion system. The Millie class of ships can't seem to be fixed.
As a shareholder as well as an avid Celebrity cruiser this is alarming that nothing so far seems to correct the bearing wear problem. This is the 17th time the repair has had to have beern done on the Millie class of ships. ( I no longer book this class becuase of the uncertainity of my cruise being cancelled.) Its already happened to me twice.
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Old November 19th, 2006, 01:08 PM
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We've been watching the boards, etc. regarding the various problems with the Milli class ships.

We've booked a great cabin on the Summit for 2007 for our wedding anniversary cruise to the Panama Canal...but for the first time ever, we are seriously considering cancelling and rebooking with another cruiseline. Too many problems with this class ship and the azipods!

There were no azipod problems on the Infinity when we cruised her the first of May to Alaska...but the cruise right after ours did experienced problems.

We've loved Celebrity, and don't mind being brand loyal...BUT maybe it's time to jump ship for awhile until Celebrity can work it out.
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Old November 19th, 2006, 01:13 PM
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suggest you look at Royal carib's Brilliance of the Seas--it only does a partial Canal trip but was excellent & seems not to have same problems as celeb M clas ships Why add stress to your wedding day--too important! Congrats...
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Old November 19th, 2006, 06:51 PM
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Claude,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I'm still dumbfounded as to why they ( X ) simply don't program a regular preventive maintenance program around what has clearly become an almost annual and predictable event..
Celebrity Cruises has brought suit against the manufacturer of the pods. The suit is still in process. While the suit remains open, any replacement of bearings before they fail would allow the manufacturer of the pods to claim, in court, that the replacement was not necessary and that Celebrity's claim lacks merit, opening the possibility to an adverse settlement.

But as it is, Celebrity Cruises should be able to recover (1) the cost of replacing the bearings, (2) the loss of revenue from the cancelled cruises, and (3) the compensation given to affected customers, all with interest, when the lawsuit settles.

Norm.
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Old November 19th, 2006, 06:56 PM
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cookie1207,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
The Millie class of ships can't seem to be fixed.
I'm not persuaded that this statement is accurate. I suspect that a shipyard can replace the Azipods with pods from a different manufacturer whose pods have proven to be more reliable. The problem is that replacing the pods before the court enters a judgement in the pending lawsuit between Celebrity Cruises and the manufacturer of the present units could have an adverse impact on the judgement in the suit. Further, the manufacturer of the current pods probably will have to pay the cost of buying and installing the replacements.

Norm.
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Old November 19th, 2006, 06:59 PM
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Norm (UK),

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yes
Did the Hawaii cruise come up to expectations?
Overall, yes. The only real disappointment was not being able to find a beach club with lockers where valuables would be secure. As a result, I did not get to go swimming at a beach in the islands.

Norm (US).
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Old November 20th, 2006, 02:26 PM
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Default REV;22:17

Good morning, Norm,

You make a very valid....and obvious point, re; the potential prejudice to the still pending action VS Rolls Royce ( other defendants having '' settled'' for $38 Mil...).
But the other side of that coin would be that such a preventive maintenance program might be used as a ''stick & carrot'' tool to elicit a settlement offer from RollsRoyce , part of a ''solution'' to the ongoing problem and an attempt from RCI to establish proper intent to the court and actually improve their stand. Telling the sued manufacturer that you're putting everything in place to maintain the product best way possible while avoiding unrepairable damage to your operations is actually a strong point, at least in the eye of the magistrate sitting on the bench.......as I'm sure that the defending party probably is using the same argument to try to shift a good portioin of the ''blame''on RCI for not doing its own share of preventive maintenance...
Just a tought...

Cheers
Claude G
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Old November 20th, 2006, 06:09 PM
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Claude,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
But the other side of that coin would be that such a preventive maintenance program might be used as a ''stick & carrot'' tool to elicit a settlement offer from RollsRoyce , part of a ''solution'' to the ongoing problem and an attempt from RCI to establish proper intent to the court and actually improve their stand. Telling the sued manufacturer that you're putting everything in place to maintain the product best way possible while avoiding unrepairable damage to your operations is actually a strong point, at least in the eye of the magistrate sitting on the bench.......as I'm sure that the defending party probably is using the same argument to try to shift a good portioin of the ''blame''on RCI for not doing its own share of preventive maintenance...
In this case, the manufacturer's position seems to be that there's nothing wrong with the pods that would subject them to premature failures. Thus, the cruise line has to follow the manufactuer's maintenance schedule on the pod units to prove otherwise. If the line were to replace the bearings early, the manufacturer's argument would be that they were not defective and thus that the replacement was an elective decision by the cruise line for which the manufacturer is not liable. When the cruise line follows the manufacturer's prescribed schedule of maintenance and the units fail, OTOH, it's impossible to dispute the fact of a defect for which the manufacturer is liable.

Now the manufacturer most assuredly could change the schedule of prescribed maintenance to cut potential liabilities....

Norm.


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Old November 21st, 2006, 03:08 PM
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But as it is, Celebrity Cruises should be able to recover (1) the cost of replacing the bearings, (2) the loss of revenue from the cancelled cruises, and (3) the compensation given to affected customers, all with interest, when the lawsuit settles.

The question is can Celebrity ever recover its lost credibility in the eyes of the traveling public? I think they have mishandled the entire affair, and turned it into an insulting debacle. I for one will never book another sailing on an "M" Class ship.

We have 2 more sailings booked on Century which apparently employs a different propulsion system so should be immune from these problems, and, for 2008, have a sailing booked on Zenith. It seems that since our booking in June of this year Zenith has been sold, yet Celebrity hasn't yet had the decency to inform us as to our status on a ship they no longer own, despite holding our $900.00 deposit. I just find that day by day this corporate entity finds a new way to lower their esteem in the eyes of the traveling public. Despite all the positives one could say about Celebrity, all the things that they do right, they come across as callow and crass. I am not favorably impressed
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Old November 21st, 2006, 03:38 PM
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sal7202,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
The question is can Celebrity ever recover its lost credibility in the eyes of the traveling public? I think they have mishandled the entire affair, and turned it into an insulting debacle. I for one will never book another sailing on an "M" Class ship.
Even when they resolve the suit and correct the problems?

In reality, it's very difficult to quibble with the compensation that Celebrity has given to the passengers who were booked on the sailings that Celebrity has cancelled due to pod problems. Celebrity has consistently provided a full refund plus a free cruise of equal duration. Last year, when Celebrity cancelled my scheduled cruise to Alaska in early June ("shoulder" season) aboard GTS Summit, I booked the same itinary at the end of July (peak season) -- for free. It cost me $50 to rebook my airline tickets for the revised dates. Of course, I did pay for the hotel stays that I subsequently booked at both ends of the cruise (in Vancouver and in Anchorage).

Would I book again on the ships of the 'Millennium class? You bet -- and I'll even hope that Celebrity has to cancel it to put the ship in drydock! It's hard to argue with FREE.

Norm.
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Old November 22nd, 2006, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Claude,




Now the manufacturer most assuredly could change the schedule of prescribed maintenance to cut potential liabilities....

Norm.


Norm.


Good evening, Norm,
NOW you're talking !!! Valid point !!!
Surprises me that X didnot '' suggest '' that to RollsRoyce before.
That might address a huge amount of the potential disruptions and their impact on the clientele good will...

Cheers
Claude
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Nest up: CENTURY June'08....B2B Norwegian Fjords/Artic/NorthCape & Scandinavia/Russia

TIME TO BOARD YET ??
CLAUDE G
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Old November 23rd, 2006, 02:55 PM
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Claude,

Quote:
Originally Posted by I
Now the manufacturer most assuredly could change the schedule of prescribed maintenance to cut potential liabilities....
Quote:
Originally Posted by You
NOW you're talking !!! Valid point !!!
Surprises me that X didnot '' suggest '' that to RollsRoyce before.
That might address a huge amount of the potential disruptions and their impact on the clientele good will...
Celebrity probably did make that recommendation to the manufacturer, but the manufacturer is undoubtedly also caught between a rock and a proverbial hard place. The problem here is that the bearings on a ship's propulsion shaft normally should not require replacement. They are like the bearings in the axles of your car -- basically designed to last forever. They do wear out occasionally, but not with such frequency that their replacement constitutes routine maintenance. Thus, the addition of "Replace Bearings on Main Shaft" to the list of prescribed routine maintenance would constitute a prima facie admission that the bearings are either defective or inadequate, and thus that the pods are deficient. That change alone would be sufficient grounds for the court to find in Celebrity's favor on the lawsuit and make an astronomical award for damages and replacement to the cruise line. The manufacturer's only hope of evading a huge judgement on this one is to convince the court that the pods were not defective, and that outcome becomes less likely every time one of these units fails.

Norm.
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Old December 7th, 2006, 12:40 PM
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I saw a great show on the QM2 which covered the issue of the pods in detail--they give a smoother ride but are prone to problems. the figure I believe was that 75% of ships with pods have had some type of problem...so maybe it is the technology itself & not the particular pods...anyhow hope the enginerers can get it fixed!
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Old December 7th, 2006, 09:58 PM
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hcat,

[quote"You"]I saw a great show on the QM2 which covered the issue of the pods in detail--they give a smoother ride but are prone to problems. the figure I believe was that 75% of ships with pods have had some type of problem...so maybe it is the technology itself & not the particular pods...anyhow hope the enginerers can get it fixed![/quote]

I'm not sure what you mean by "the technology itself," but I think that the fundamental problem is the concept of putting the motor and the thrust bearings -- components that can fail at unpredictable times in service -- in a place where they are not readily accessible. With a conventional shaft, these components are in the ship's engine room where the crew can repair them at sea if they ever fail. With a pod system -- even with static (non-rotating) pods -- the only way to service them is to put the ship in drydock.

JTOL, with a conventional shaft, the crew normally checks a sight glass on the main thrust bearings visually every few hours to ensure that the units have adequate lubricant. If the sight glass indicates that the lubricant is low, they add more oil on the spot. With a pod system, it's impossible to perform such routine checks because, again, the unit is not accessible. A slow loss of oil from the thrust bearings certainly would cause the failures that have occurred on all four ships of the Millennium.

Of course, there are other types of problems that could similar symptoms.

Norm.
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