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Old December 24th, 2006, 02:25 PM
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Default Difference between Celebrity and Holland

What are the difference between Celebrity and Holland?For a lot of person Holland is more upscale than Celebrity...why?The price of Holland is more expensive than Celebrity.If I'm not mistake the celebrity fleet have a better space ratio and crew ratio for passenger...Thanks for your answer..
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Old December 25th, 2006, 10:32 AM
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I've sailed both lines several times. In my own view Celebrity is a "notch above" Holland America.

Food is better, service comparable, and onboard entertainment is better on Celebrity.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 01:11 PM
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Default Re: Difference between Celebrity and Holland

NicolaFank,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
What are the difference between Celebrity and Holland?For a lot of person Holland is more upscale than Celebrity...why?The price of Holland is more expensive than Celebrity.If I'm not mistake the celebrity fleet have a better space ratio and crew ratio for passenger...Thanks for your answer..
Ah, last I checked, Holland was dry land even though much of it is below mean sea level. The map shows it on the European coast to the west of Germany. AFAIK, it does not move.

Holland is a great place to visit on a cruise, though!

Norm.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 07:47 PM
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Very funny, Norm !

Hi Nicola,

Welcome to Cruisemates!

My opinion may not be worth much since we've never sailed either of these lines, but from what I've read on the boards I agree with Kuki.

Celebrity is a "notch above" Holland America. I think the space ratio and the crew ratio would be about the same. Of course the space ratio would depend on which cabin you book (unless you're talking about the whole ship). To us the crew ratio doesn't make any difference as long as they're helpful and friendly .

IMO, Celebrity is more formal than Holland America if that makes a difference one way or the other to you.

Have a wonderful cruise, no matter which line you go on!

P.S. Our favorite line is Princess !
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Old December 25th, 2006, 10:56 PM
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Fern,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Celebrity is a "notch above" Holland America.
It's interestng to hear you and Kuki suggest that since both lines operate in the "premium" segment of the market. Holland America Lines has always had a solid reputation. Nonetheless, Carnival Corporation has marketed Holland America Lines as a traditional cruise line for older passengers since the acquisition in an effort to position that line and that marketing has influenced the line's demographics substantially. I hear that the median age of the passengers on a typical Holland America cruise is about eighty. Thus, I would not recommend the line to anybody under about sixty or so.

But the OP asked about "Holland" rather than "Holland America Lines" (or "Holland America" for short)....

Norm.
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Old December 25th, 2006, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
But the OP asked about "Holland" rather than "Holland America Lines"
The original poster also stated that English was not their first language... so it wasn't that "helpful" to try and "joke" at their expense.

As for Holland America's demographic..... though slightly higher than some other lines... on their Caribbean itineraries you're likely to find an average age for passengers to be the 40s.

Last year when I sailed the Westerdam in the Caribbean, on our particular sailing the average was actually considerably lower than that.

Norm.. sometimes I think you spend too much time tossing out "old reputations" rather than researching more current opinions and experiences.

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Old December 26th, 2006, 12:27 AM
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I agree with Kuki - the original poster is from Venice, Italy (beautiful city) and should not have been made fun of.

Then again when RCI was trying to buy Princess, Norm thought that was great being a stockholder of Princess, but when Carnival ended up doing it, Norm swore off all Carnival products ... and it shows up on all his posts. Norm is now a stockholder of RCI and pushes their products to the detriment of all Carnival lines.

He's entitled to his opinion - but really enough of the bad mouthing of the various Carnival products.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 09:47 AM
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I found Holland America service to be superior to my Celebrity cruises on my cruise on the Statendam.

In my opinion the food is far superior on Celebrity, with a wider variety of entrées and a greater depth in flavor and a superior presentation.

Entertainment on Celebrity wins hands down. Holland America's entertainment is lacking and there is usually little to do after 11:00 p.m. Even the casino shut down, on many nights at 11:30 p.m.

The passenger demographic on my 14 day Asian cruise was older but FAR from being in the eighties. I would say the average was in the early sixties.

Regardless, I would sail Holland America at the drop of a hat.

Holland America's demographic, especially in the Caribbean, has changed to a much younger crowd. While the, older HAL regulars, may be more vocal and want things to stay the same, the reality is that many more young people are sailing Holland's, larger class ships and even their smaller ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by norm
Ah, last I checked, Holland was dry land even though much of it is below mean sea level. The map shows it on the European coast to the west of Germany. AFAIK, it does not move.

Holland is a great place to visit on a cruise, though!
BTW=This is a cruise board, where the vast majority of people who will answer a question will know what "Holland" is and new posters, especially new posters, are welcome to ask questions even though they don't write the "full" name of a cruise line and not be answered with a joke or sarcasm.


Take care,
Mike
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Old December 26th, 2006, 11:05 AM
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Having sailed both lines, I pretty much agree with most of the above as well. Entertainment is much better on "Celebrity" in my opinion, and the food is much better as well. On our last cruise on "Oosterdam" they served a lot of "comfort food". If I wanted meat loaf I'd have stopped at Cracker Barrel on the way to the port. Bottom line, I'd pick "Celebrity" in a heart beat over "Holland".

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Old December 26th, 2006, 12:45 PM
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CruzNut,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I agree with Kuki - the original poster is from Venice, Italy (beautiful city) and should not have been made fun of.

Then again when RCI was trying to buy Princess, Norm thought that was great being a stockholder of Princess, but when Carnival ended up doing it, Norm swore off all Carnival products ... and it shows up on all his posts. Norm is now a stockholder of RCI and pushes their products to the detriment of all Carnival lines.

He's entitled to his opinion - but really enough of the bad mouthing of the various Carnival products.
Whoa! What in my post ("Holland America Lines has always had a solid reputation...") in any way "bad mouthed" the product???

The line's demographics are what they are. The demographics are neither good nor bad intrinsically, though they certainly may make the line a better match for some people and a poorer match for other people and thus should be made known. I'll grant that the common caricature ("a median age of about eighty") may be somewhat of an exaggeration, but it does make the point.

You should also be aware that there was "a whole lot else" going on when Carnival Corporation and P&O Princess Cruises Plc. merged operations, with the latter changing its name to Carnival Plc. At the time, Carnival Carnival Corporation had a then recent slew of fires, complete propulsion failures, and other major incidents that put ships and all aboard in serious danger across every line that the company owned except Seaborne. All of these incidents were of the type that one would expsect from neglect of routine maintenance and inattention to basic safety issues. As you might guess, this was neither the sort of company on whose ships I'm going to sail nor the sort of company that I want in my portfolio, so I responded accordingly when the change in ownership occurred. Carnival Corporation subsequently replaced the executive who was responsible for maintenance and operation of the company's vessels with three executives who divided those responsibilities. The company has had a lot fewer incidents over the past three years, so it appears that the change in its leadership has made a big difference. If the merger of operations were occurring now rather than three years ago, my response probably would be very different than my response then.

Norm.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 12:55 PM
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Kuki,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
As for Holland America's demographic..... though slightly higher than some other lines... on their Caribbean itineraries you're likely to find an average age for passengers to be the 40s.

Last year when I sailed the Westerdam in the Caribbean, on our particular sailing the average was actually considerably lower than that.

Norm.. sometimes I think you spend too much time tossing out "old reputations" rather than researching more current opinions and experiences.
Perhaps, but I tend to go with the most recent inputs that I have. I'm aware that Holland America Lines does get a somewhat younger crowd in the Caribbean and in Alaska than on global itineraries, but you are the first person I have ever heard say that the median age is as young as forty-something on that line. I'll be looking for additional recent inputs on this to ascertain whether your datum is an outlier (which sets of empirical observations invariably contain) or reflective of a major shift in the line's demographics.

Norm.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 01:04 PM
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Mike,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I found Holland America service to be superior to my Celebrity cruises on my cruise on the Statendam.

In my opinion the food is far superior on Celebrity, with a wider variety of entrées and a greater depth in flavor and a superior presentation.

Entertainment on Celebrity wins hands down. Holland America's entertainment is lacking and there is usually little to do after 11:00 p.m. Even the casino shut down, on many nights at 11:30 p.m.

The passenger demographic on my 14 day Asian cruise was older but FAR from being in the eighties. I would say the average was in the early sixties.

Regardless, I would sail Holland America at the drop of a hat.
Sounds like a pretty balanced comparison. Celebrity's menus are not exactly my favorites, either, though I usually manage to find something that I will enjoy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Holland America's demographic, especially in the Caribbean, has changed to a much younger crowd. While the, older HAL regulars, may be more vocal and want things to stay the same, the reality is that many more young people are sailing Holland's, larger class ships and even their smaller ships.
Thanks for the updated information.

Yes, I'm aware that the caricature of Celebrity's demographics ("median age of about eighty") probably is somewhat of an exaggeration, but it does make the point that the line historically has drawn an older crowd. If that's changing, as you and Kuki indicate, the broader appeal will make the line much stronger in the future.

Norm.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
I'll be looking for additional recent inputs on this to ascertain whether your datum is an outlier (which sets of empirical observations invariably contain) or reflective of a major shift in the line's demographics.
The original poster... and many others who visit the boards.. come looking for "first hand" experiences and opinions.... and that was clearly the case with the original post in this thread.

Norm.. in many cases your knowledge and opinions can be invaluble to answer people's questions. However, I think responding to specific questions about ships or lines you have no direct experience with can do a disservice to the questioner.

There's a reason sites like CruiseMates send out staff to review and write current articles on as many cruise lines and ships as possible. The cruise industry is constantly changing, and it's not easy to keep all the information current, and certainly it's difficult for the writers not to infuse at least some of their own tastes in their writings. However most are trained to keep their articles as objective as possible.

That's why researching and reading MANY of the "professional reviews" written, and combining that information with other's "first hand" experiences can generally be a very helpful means for a reader to get a pretty fair assesment of the ships they are researching.

I guess I find it odd seeing responses and opinions on questions regarding ships or cruise lines from people who have no personal experiences on the topic to relate.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
but you are the first person I have ever heard say that the median age is as young as forty-something on that line
As an aside.. you might also be surprised to hear that the average age passengers on Carnival (not Carnival Corp) ships is 45.
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Old December 26th, 2006, 01:39 PM
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Kuki,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
As an aside.. you might also be surprised to hear that the average age passengers on Carnival (not Carnival Corp) ships is 45.
Yes, that's actually about what I would expect and what I have heard from other sources. Of course, many of the "party hearty" crowd that Carnival Cruise Line solicited fairly aggressively twenty years ago with the "party boat" theme is well past that age now, and many of them undoubtedly continue to be loyal repeat passengers.

And, in reality, 45 probably is one of the youngest median ages in the industry. IIRC, the median age of passengers on Celebrity is about 55.

Norm.
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Old December 27th, 2006, 09:21 AM
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Hi,
I just got off the Millennium on Sunday 12/24/06. The food has dropped at least one star from since I sailed on the Infinity 5 years ago. The "New England" clam chowder really was a joke. Also the fish dishes were poor.
One thing about Holland America that seems better to me is that the ships are a little smaller which seems better for me.
Ed
PS. I would still sail with Celebrity again.
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Old December 27th, 2006, 12:36 PM
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Ed,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I just got off the Millennium on Sunday 12/24/06. The food has dropped at least one star from since I sailed on the Infinity 5 years ago. The "New England" clam chowder really was a joke. Also the fish dishes were poor.
I never order fish on a cruise, regardless of cruise line, though I will eat some shellfish..

Coming from coastal New England where no restaurant that wants to stay in business would even remotely consider serving any fish that isn't that day's catch, I'm accustomed to very fresh fish. If a fish smells at all, we throw it out. Cruise ships, unfortunately, are not configured to catch fish while they are at sea so what they serve is whatever they brought from the last port or, worse still, some port before it where the ship loaded provisions, and it's probably frozen rather than fresh. Thus, their fish can't measure up to my standards so I order something else rather than be disappointed by a meal with which I won't be stisfied. For some reason, shellfish does not seem to go bad if they store it for a few days.

Of course, YMMV!

Norm.
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Old December 27th, 2006, 02:53 PM
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Having sail both HAL and Celebrity (multiple times) there is a difference and it's not just passenger AGE.

Our experience:

We sailed a 10 day on the Oosterdam. The ship was beautiful and spotless on our sailing.

Service was above expected in every department.

Our cabin suite was larger than any of the suites we've had on Celebrity (not including of course the Penthouse)

The gym and spa area are exceptional, having current equipment and again spotlessly clean.

Passenger age range varied, but most over the age of 40+...there's lots to do on board ship...BUT events, shops, etc. do close down early! We found most closing up by 10pm.

There's a different movie in the Theatre every night, lots of available TV channels (if you're into that) we had a DVD player in our room with 11 pages of movie choices.

Food is subjective, having said that, we found the meals varied and excellent.

HAL is rated on the upper end of Premium and passengers sailing on HAL appreciate and expect quality of service.

On our recent 12 nights cruise on the Celebrity Infinity...

The ship was in good shape, but not as clean as before. Windows throughout the ship were very dirty and hard to see through. A vital issue since we were cruising Alaska.

Our suite was nice but on the small size...

General service excellent of course. No complaints at all.

Entertainment good to excellent.

Food...Celebrity does have good food!!!!

We did NOT have a DVD player or VHS player in our suite

Will we sail Celebrity again...most likely...

Will we sail Holland America.... Absolutely!
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Old December 28th, 2006, 02:13 AM
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Kuki,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I've sailed both lines several times. In my own view Celebrity is a "notch above" Holland America.

Food is better, service comparable, and onboard entertainment is better on Celebrity.
Douglas Ward and the other folks at Berlitz seem to agree with you. I just got the new rankings for 2007. Here they are, along with the median and upper and lower quartile values. It's possible that I missed a vessel of Holland America Lines or two in going through the book, so I'll be glad to add any missing vessels into the list and adjust the statistics if somebody can tell me their names.

Holland America Lines:
>> MS Amsterdam: 1545
>> MS Maasdam: 1537
>> MS Noordam: 1548
>> MS Oosterdam: 1546
>> MS Prinsendam: 1691
>> MS Rotterdam: 1545
>> MS Ryndam: 1537
>> MS Statendam: 1536
>> MS Veendam: 1537
>> MS Volendam: 1543
>> MS Westerdam: 1546
>> MS Zaandam: 1543
>> MS Zuiderdam: 1546

>> Upper Quartile: 1546
>> Median: 1545
>> Lower Quartile: 1543

Celebrity Cruises:
>> MY Celebrity Xpedition: 1404
>> MV Century[: 1648
>> GTS Constellation: 1680
>> MV Galaxy: 1590
>> GTS Infinity: 1684
>> MV Mercury: 1588
>> GTS Millennium: 1685
>> GTS Summit: 1683
>> MV Zenith: 1494

>> Upper Quartile: 1683
>> Median: 1648
>> Lower Quartile: 1588

Source of Rankings: Douglas Ward, Berlitz Complete Guide to Cruising & Cruise Ships 2007, Berlitz Publishing, London, 2006.

The closeness of the rankings for Holland America Lines reflect an amazing consistency of the product, but Celebrity scores consistently higher than Holland America except for two outliers -- a small yacht-like expedition vessel based permanently in the Galapagos Islands and an older vessel that will leave the fleet within a matter of months.

Norm.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 05:53 PM
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I have sailed with Holland America 3 times and Celebrity 1 time. I loved both cruise lines. On Holland America ages vary with the length of the cruse ie. the longer the cruise the older the guests. Any thing over 2 weeks has older people. I have not sailed Holland America since 2002. We sailed Celebrity and Princess last year. The entertainment was best on Celebrity. I liked the food better on Princess. Celebrity has let us down with dropping ports after you book a cruise. Last fall they dropped an island on our cruise to Hawaii and this fall we cruise transatlantic and they have changed ports since we booked.
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Old March 6th, 2007, 07:58 PM
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nonni57,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Celebrity has let us down with dropping ports after you book a cruise. Last fall they dropped an island on our cruise to Hawaii and this fall we cruise transatlantic and they have changed ports since we booked.
Actually, changes to itineraries can -- and sometimes do -- happen on every cruise line, often due to circumstances that are beyond the cruise line's control.

The cruise lines do everything in their power to avoid changing the ports where the ships turn around, as such changes would affect flights, hotel packages, connecting land tours, and other arrangements, but even changes of turnaround ports are sometimes necessary due to weather or other unforeseeable conditions.

Norm.
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Old March 16th, 2007, 03:21 PM
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What a debate this post has become.......

To reply to the initial question Nicola, my husband and I are in our early 30s and love both Holland and Celebrity. We would cruise either again. Overall we prefer a "classic" cruising experience and good food and service are very important to us. We have found this to be true on Holland and Celebrity. We did our research prior to our first sailing
and have not been disappointed with these lines. THere are other cruise lines out there that I would choose to avoid completely. We love Celebrity's food but the service on Holland is outstanding. Their crew is from Indonesia and the Phillipines and are so well trained.........so friendly and the best around. Celebrity has an International crew and does not have the cohesive feel that Holland's crew does.
As far as price goes, if you are patient, flexible, and have the time to look, there are many deals to be found on the internet for both Holland and Celebrity.
You will not go wrong with either of these cruise lines. We love them both! Bon Voyage!
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Old March 19th, 2007, 03:47 PM
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My husband and I have cruised on RC (Brilliance, Radiance, Mariner), Celebrity (Galaxy and Summit) and Holland America (Westerdam). It is personal, but we tear up HAL ads when they come. Will never cruise with them again (oh, well, barring the most fantastic bargain ever). They have this thing about serving each person in cafeteria personally. It takes an hour or so to have a simple lunch. Long lines. Celebrity does the carrying of tray to your table in cafeteria and is upscale, for sure, but you can serve yourself in cafeteria for breakfast and lunch. Helpful and friendly crew. More beautiful ships. Oh, and sorry to say, but younger retirees and families on Celebrity (generally, of course). Also, the Westerdam is not old but it surely was dreary. That's our take. You decide and enjoy! ........
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharonious
My husband and I have cruised on RC (Brilliance, Radiance, Mariner), Celebrity (Galaxy and Summit) and Holland America (Westerdam). It is personal, but we tear up HAL ads when they come. Will never cruise with them again (oh, well, barring the most fantastic bargain ever). They have this thing about serving each person in cafeteria personally. It takes an hour or so to have a simple lunch. Long lines. Celebrity does the carrying of tray to your table in cafeteria and is upscale, for sure, but you can serve yourself in cafeteria for breakfast and lunch. Helpful and friendly crew. More beautiful ships. Oh, and sorry to say, but younger retirees and families on Celebrity (generally, of course). Also, the Westerdam is not old but it surely was dreary. That's our take. You decide and enjoy! ........
We were on Holland America's Oosterdam and never experienced what you did. We served ourselves most of the time...except for the 'roasted' meats, etc.

But with all the 'virus' going around, people NOT washing their hands, etc. we are most happy to have 'gloved' attendants serve us. The Oo is a beautiful beautiful ship...and the service was OUTSTANDING in everyway. We never experienced long lines anywhere for any venue.

We believe it's

First: The training of the Captain, staff and crew. They MAKE the difference on a cruise ship. If they are warm, friendly and make you feel welcome. Your whole outlook is improved.

Second: The actual cruise ship...decor, on board entertainment, etc. If you have lousy service, even the most beautiful ship, and excellent food will leave a bad taste.

We were on RCCI Radiance of the Seas when she was new (in service only a year) We cruised to Alaska...the ship was Beautiful in everyway, and we reserved an expensive suite. Did we have a good time?..Yes...A great time? NO...The service and general attitude of the staff was lousy...the worst we'd ever had. The food was generally ok...(but that's a subjective opinion, because food preference is very personal)

Later, we cruised on RCCI's Monarch of the Seas...a much smaller older ship...we had a tiny cabin...no Veranda...BUT, enjoyed the food and service much more. For example, the service for our tiny outside cabin was superior...we found the staff upbeat and friendly, and we had a great time.

We've cruised Celebrity several times, and became very brand loyal for awhile...that is, until we sailed Holland America. Then within our personal experience we were able to compared the two cruise lines.

We found Celebrity's service IS generally good. The food is not bad...but on a longer cruise a little boring...(FOR US that is)

We've come to prefer the service and food on Holland America.
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Old March 23rd, 2007, 05:55 PM
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Have been on numerous Celebrity cruises all sizes and the same with Holland with 110 days Going all the way back to the old Niew Amsterdam.Both lines have their attributes and the following is only an opinion as I would choose either in a heartbeat.Celebrity:CHAMPAGNE upon boarding and escort to your room;cold towels at pool side and sorbet seved also;best pastries and desserts and a much better alternative restaurant with the Olympic on the Millinnium the top of my list.Entertainment in general somewhat better.Holland:Somewhat better service due to the two major nationalities of the waiters and cabin stewards;More friendly in general.Hot appetizers in all bars before dinner;chocolates in bar after dinner to die for;All in all I would pick Celebrity as ther appears to be some life after dinner where as on Holland most are in bed before 11;00 pm.For those who have not been on Princess lately try the caribbean princess for a cruise that offers much better entertainment with bert Stratton the number one entertainer on all cruise ships packing them in every nite in the piano bar.Also anytime dining a real plus and would suspect this will be the norm on all cruise lines shortly.
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Old March 31st, 2007, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Fern,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Celebrity is a "notch above" Holland America.


But the OP asked about "Holland" rather than "Holland America Lines" (or "Holland America" for short)....

Norm.
Norm,
You knew what he meant. You were just being snobby.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old April 2nd, 2007, 09:12 PM
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I have sailed Celebrity (Constellation) once and Holland America (Zuiderdam) once. (Once on Princess and once of NCL -- numerous times on RCCL - our favorite.) The choice of a cruise line is a personal thing -- each has some truly outstanding features. We wanted to try them all, but will stick with RCCL (usually). In our opinion Celebrity was superior to Holland America in most respects. The ship was in much better condition and Celebrity had far better entertainment. Holland America did have superior food, but the service was very slow in the dining room. For the majority of the buffets the staff served, which is much slower but cleaner for all. Holland America does seem almost obsessed with hygiene -- the hand sanitizers are EVERYWHERE and frequently the staff almost insists it be used. In contrast the room and public areas were certainly far from spotlessly clean, especially the glass; nooks and crannies were dusty. The doors on the Holland America ship were not automatic and very difficult to open. Handicapped individuals will probably need assistance getting about. Holland America did offer a really nice tour of the kitchen which has not been offered on other cruise lines. We felt the Zuiderdam was dated and dark and probably in need of refurbishment. We would need to have a really terrific bargain or itinerary in order to go back on Holland America.
Happy cruising!
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Old August 19th, 2007, 10:08 PM
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Fern,
I am going on my first Celebrity cruise in September so can not respond with knowledge of comparison of HAL vs. Celebrity.
However, I can tell you from experience that not ONE of my HAL cruises was the average age 80. I am currently 52 yrs. old and have been taking cruises on HAL since I was 18 yrs old. On the R and S class HAL ships the average ages go from 50 to 65 depending on length and time of year of cruise. On the Vista class the average age is less. Most of the Vista class cruises are of 7 day lengths. There are 4 of these ships and they are geared for multi-aged families.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Fern,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Celebrity is a "notch above" Holland America.
It's interestng to hear you and Kuki suggest that since both lines operate in the "premium" segment of the market.............. I hear that the median age of the passengers on a typical Holland America cruise is about eighty. Thus, I would not recommend the line to anybody under about sixty or so.



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  #29 (permalink)  
Old August 23rd, 2007, 04:23 PM
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Default Re: Difference between Celebrity and Holland

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicolaFank
What are the difference between Celebrity and Holland?For a lot of person Holland is more upscale than Celebrity...why?The price of Holland is more expensive than Celebrity.If I'm not mistake the celebrity fleet have a better space ratio and crew ratio for passenger...Thanks for your answer..
Hi NicolaFrank,

The answer would depend on which ships you are thinking of on Celebrity. The Infinity, Millennium and Infinity have a design defect that has led to many, many problems on some cruises in the past. Before you decide you might want to do a search on Mermaid Pods and you will see many problems that have no doubt not been mentioned to you by anybody.
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Old August 24th, 2007, 11:08 PM
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I'm not sure what it is about some 'cruisers' that causes them to express such disdain for mature travelers. I travel an average amount but have yet to book passage on a cruiseline because of the negativism toward senior citizens. You don't hear comments like 'take the red eye and you'll avoid all those pesty seniors - they can't stay up that late' in the airline industry. It just seems that ocean going travelers prefer ships with a very young population who can party til 3 in the morning. Norm's comments about the average age of Holland America Lines being 80 is only ONE example, it isn't true and it is exaggerated for effect from an inherent attitude against mature citizens. My only hope is that folks like Norm actually get to be 80 and experience first hand his current attitude from those that are learning from him. Not recommending Holland America to anyone under sixty is an insult. Most seniors I know enjoy a wide range of ages and not all of us go to bed at 8pm. Have you seen any posts from seniors that criticize those that sleep in because they partied too hard the night before? We are happy for them because it makes the breakfast lines shorter for us when the restaurant opens. I would hope the differences between carriers would be focused on things other than simply discriminatory remarks about the age of their clientele. A well trained crew, regardless of their ethnicity or age, makes for a good experience for customers in all businesses. Freshness of food, variety of menus, presentation in the dining rooms, plus all the other ammenities available should be the most important criteria for evaluation in a fair world. At least I hope this is a fair world. Nicola Frank's questions were fair and deserved a quality response, not something sarcastic and partially false. Thanks to those of you that tried to give a fair evaluation from personal current experiences. Although each of us has a somewhat different take on experiences, because of our life long referents, a large group of responses does offer helpful information and a guideline of what someone might expect given similar circumstances. Happy sailing to all (even Norm).
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