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Old May 6th, 2007, 09:02 PM
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Default 4-day Pacific Coast cruise

It is only a 2 hour drive from Nanaimo to Victoria. What does the ship do all night, if departing from Nanaimo at 7PM and arriving in Victoria at 7AM? Also, does the casino operate during the full 4-day cruise? What is considered international waters?
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Old May 7th, 2007, 09:36 PM
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Default Re: 4-day Pacific Coast cruise

ladycanuck,

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It is only a 2 hour drive from Nanaimo to Victoria. What does the ship do all night, if departing from Nanaimo at 7PM and arriving in Victoria at 7AM?
She may proceed very slowly. she may go out into open waters and come back, or she may arrive well ahead of schedule. also, part of that time is piloting out of one harbor and into the other.

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Also, does the casino operate during the full 4-day cruise?
Yes. It usually opens about an hour after the ship leaves port or, if the ship is at sea, at 2:00 PM.

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What is considered international waters?
Under the current maritime treaties, "International Waters" are all waters that are more than twelve (12) nautical miles from land. The distance from land was the effective range of shore batteries when it was established. Waters located within twelve miles of land are territorial waters of the country that owns the closest land.

The maritime treaties also make special provisions for "International Straits" which are straits more than six nautical miles but less than twenty-four nautical miles across, and generally treat "International Straits" as international waters for navigational purposes. By way of example, a submarine can go though an international strait while submerged even though it normally has to surface to enter territorial waters demarked by the twelve mile limit.

Norm.
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Old May 8th, 2007, 03:46 PM
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Darn, I was hoping no casino, too tempting, but I guess the cruise lines count on it for revenue. Thanks for your great explanation.
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Old May 8th, 2007, 05:49 PM
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ladycanuck,

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Darn, I was hoping no casino, too tempting, but I guess the cruise lines count on it for revenue. Thanks for your great explanation.
Sorry to be the bearer of disappointing news.

Actually, there's more to the story of international and territorial waters. The original maritime treaties recognized territorial waters extending only three nautical miles from land, based upon the range of earlier shore batteries. When shore batteries improved, the maritime nations negotiated a new treaty that extended the territorial waters from three miles to twelve miles. During the negotiations that led to the current limt, however, there was significant concern about several key straits that were wider than six miles (and thus had a passageway of international waters under the three mile limit) but narrower than twenty-four miles (and thus would become territorial waters under the new twelve mile limit limit), most notably including the Strait of Gibraltar between Spain and Morocco and the Baltic Strait between Sweden and Denmark. The special stipulation governing "international straits" resolved that issue. The Turkish straits, known as the the Dardenelles connecting the Agean Sea to the Sea of Marmara and the Bosphorus connecting the Sea of Marmara to the Black Sea, were not at issue because they are less than six nautical miles wide, and thus continue to be territorial waterways. There is a universal right of "innocent passage" through territorial waters that allows ships of any nation to pass through the territorial waters of another, but that right has certain requirements -- for example, warships must have their guns stowed (aligned fore and aft in the normal steaming position) and submarines must be on the surface -- that thwarted covertness of the Soviet Black Sea Squadron during the Cold War.

But I digress. Here in the United States, our federal constitution states that the Congress cannot modify the territorial limits of any state without the consent of its legislature. The original three mile limit was recognized before the formation of the United States, but the twelve mile limit came later and was never submitted to the state legislatures for approval. Thus, the territorial waters of each state extend only three miles from its shore. Waters between three miles and twelve miles from the U. S. coastline are territorial waters of the United States but not of any state. Thus, state laws regulating or forbidding casino gambling do not apply to any waters more than three miles from shore and federal laws are pretty much silent on the matter. I don't know whether Canadian territorial waters between three nautical miles and twelve nautical miles are subject to provincial governance or not.

BTW, there was an effort to extend territorial waters to 200 nautical miles from shore back in the 1970's because many countries felt that they needed to stop overfishing and other excesses beyond twelve nautical miles from shore. The original proposal met with some reluctance, but led to a compromise amendment that allows any country to declare an "economic zone" extending from twelve nautical miles to two hundred nautical miles from its shores, in which it may regulate fishing, mining, and other economic activity without prejudice to the universal right to passage on the high seas.

Norm.
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