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-   -   Is the Tuxedo dead: Or at least on life support? (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/celebrity/372019-tuxedo-dead-least-life-support.html)

Mike M February 24th, 2010 01:09 PM

Is the Tuxedo dead: Or at least on life support?
 
On my cruises over the last few years I have seen fewer and fewer tuxedos. I quit wearing a tuxedo when I lost weight and my tuxedo no longer fit and I didn't see a truly valid reason to buy another one. I've never been someone who gets "great" pleasure in dressing up.

I'll admit that you will see a lot more tuxedos on Crystal, where it's the norm, or Cunard but on most mainstream lines I would guess that 20% of men wear one.

I now wear a very nice, tailored, dark suit and I'm very happy with it.

I also love CC casual lines like Azamara, Oceania and NCL where a tuxedo or even a jacket is not required or expected.

What do you think and how do you feel about tuxedos?

Take care,
Mike

felix_the_cat February 24th, 2010 02:46 PM

I'm glad DH continues to wear his. However he's put on a bit of beef and I'm not sure it's going to fit anymore unless he loses some weight.

I'm not sure he would buy a new one though. Over to suits will be fine.

Mind you, I really like formal nights so I don't want to see them done away with.

Parrot Mom February 24th, 2010 06:54 PM

Love formal nights and men in tuxedos, b ut unless you can drive to a port I dont think the extra weight justifies it.. A dark suit/sport jacket will work as well now. Women can get away with something dressy with appropriate jewery an accessories and it works.. If you had to pay the overage that we do you would definetely understand my side

Rev22:17 February 25th, 2010 06:26 PM

Mike,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1276418)
On my cruises over the last few years I have seen fewer and fewer tuxedos. I quit wearing a tuxedo when I lost weight and my tuxedo no longer fit and I didn't see a truly valid reason to buy another one. I've never been someone who gets "great" pleasure in dressing up.

I'll admit that you will see a lot more tuxedos on Crystal, where it's the norm, or Cunard but on most mainstream lines I would guess that 20% of men wear one.

I now wear a very nice, tailored, dark suit and I'm very happy with it.

I also love CC casual lines like Azamara, Oceania and NCL where a tuxedo or even a jacket is not required or expected.

What do you think and how do you feel about tuxedos?

It really depends a lot upon the cruise line and, on Celebrity, on the itinerary. In general, you'll see a lot more tuxedos on longer cruises than on shorter cruises.

That said, today, many professionally employed men simply do not own business suits because they don't wear suits in their work. This is especially true in the "high tech" fields and in science and engineering in general. In my office, for example, sports shirts or polo shirts and slacks are the norm. We do put on coats and ties when we have meetings with customers on the schedule, but a sport coat is quite adequate so no suit is required. For guys in such a situation, it's a lot cheaper to rent a tux than to buy a suit -- and by renting from the cruise line, one does not have to pack the tux. The result may be more tuxes among first timers on the more "upscale" lines like Celebrity.

Norm.

Rev22:17 February 25th, 2010 06:30 PM

Parrot Mom,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1276490)
Love formal nights and men in tuxedos, b ut unless you can drive to a port I dont think the extra weight justifies it..

From a packing standpoint, there's not much difference between a business suit and a tuxedo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
A dark suit/sport jacket will work as well now.

A sport jacket really is too casual for the "modified formal" standard of dress of the "formal" evenings. If one does not have a tuxedo or a dinner jacket, the substitute should be a dark -- and I do mean DARK -- business suit.

Norm.

dkjretired February 25th, 2010 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev22:17 (Post 1276726)
Parrot Mom,



From a packing standpoint, there's not much difference between a business suit and a tuxedo.



A sport jacket really is too casual for the "modified formal" standard of dress of the "formal" evenings. If one does not have a tuxedo or a dinner jacket, the substitute should be a dark -- and I do mean DARK -- business suit.

Norm.

Celebrity eliminated the dark from their suit definition about two years ago. They only request a Tuxedo, dinner jacket or suit...

Formal

Ladies:
Cocktail dress, gown or dressy pantsuit

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks

Don

Trip February 26th, 2010 08:22 PM

With the bagage regulations now, we would not pack it anymore...Aside from hubby growing out of it, my opinion is, for most crusiers nowadays, it's a thing of the past...A nice suit, works wonderfully, and makes more sense in todays world...

Rev22:17 March 1st, 2010 06:27 PM

Don,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1276787)
Celebrity eliminated the dark from their suit definition about two years ago. They only request a Tuxedo, dinner jacket or suit...

Formal

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown or dressy pantsuit

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks

Bear in mind that a "dinner jacket" is NOT the same as a sport coat. Rather, it's correctly worn only with black formal "slacks" (?) that have black satin inserts, a pleated (formal) shirt, a bow tie, and a vest or cummerbund. A "tuxedo" strictly means a specific style of dinner jacket first worn at a very exclusive private country club in New York named The Tuxedo Club, though many people wrongly use the term to refer to formal outfits with other styles of dinner jackets.

Norm.

dkjretired March 1st, 2010 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev22:17 (Post 1277540)
Don,



Bear in mind that a "dinner jacket" is NOT the same as a sport coat. Rather, it's correctly worn only with black formal "slacks" (?) that have black satin inserts, a pleated (formal) shirt, a bow tie, and a vest or cummerbund. A "tuxedo" strictly means a specific style of dinner jacket first worn at a very exclusive private country club in New York named The Tuxedo Club, though many people wrongly use the term to refer to formal outfits with other styles of dinner jackets.

Norm.


I know what a tux and a dinner jacket are, I was only pointing out that Celebrity removed the word dark from their suit description. I then quoted the relevent portion of their web site.

I agree that a sport jacket is not a suit.

Don

Mike L March 2nd, 2010 01:31 PM

I still belive a tux is the proper attaire on formal nights. It takes no more space to pack a tux than it does a suit. That being said, if the majority are going away from wearing a tux then the dress code for the evening should be changed by the cruise line to reflect the mindset of the customer.

Rev22:17 March 3rd, 2010 05:43 PM

Mike,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1277723)
I still belive a tux is the proper attaire on formal nights. It takes no more space to pack a tux than it does a suit.

The proper attire is whatever the host (that is, the Master) "requests" in the invitation to the event. Since the cruise line specifies a "Modified Black Tie" (or "Modified Formal") standard of dress rather than a strict "Black Tie" (or "Formal") standard of dress, dark business suits and dinner jacket outfits, including tuxedos, are equally acceptable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
That being said, if the majority are going away from wearing a tux then the dress code for the evening should be changed by the cruise line to reflect the mindset of the customer.

On most Celebrity cruises, one actually sees a lot more "black tie" outfits in the dining room now than twenty years ago -- and there is a very good reason for this. Historically, the major cruise lines adopted the "Modified Black Tie" standard of dress for the "formal" evenings in the 1970's because, at that time, very few gentlemen owned formalwear but most gentlemen did own business suits. As society got more and more casual in the 1980's and 1990's, however, more and more gentlemen who do not own business suits started cruising. These gentlemen typically rented tuxedos or other dinner jacket outfits for their first few cruises because it was less expensive than buying a suit that they did not expect to have another occasion to wear.

Also, a countertrend to hold "gala" evenings with true "Formal" attire as benefits for various charities took root in the 1990's, creating a situation in which many gents now have occasions that require true formalwear other than cruises. As a result, many gents have elected to buy formalwear in recent years.

That said, some of the major cruise lines actually have changed their standards of dress to reflect the tastes of their customers.

>> On Carnival, "Formal" evenings have given way to "Elegant" evenings where gents may wear a dress shirt and slacks with neither jacket nor tie.

>> NCL now advertises "Formal Optional" evenings, where some of the main restaurants and other evening venues do not require dressy clothing.

>> And in the "premium" tier, at least three smaller lines -- Azamara Club, Disney Cruises, and Oceania Cruises -- now offer "all casual" cruises that do not have dressy evenings at all.

But the folks who prefer the more traditional "Formal" evenings have gravitated toward Celebrity Cruises, and Celebrity has responded by maintaining those true "Formal" evenings.

Norm.

Cruiser1001 March 14th, 2010 06:34 AM

Many people today rarely wear suits to work so getting a suit for a cruise, especially a "nice" suit, is just as much bother as getting a tuxedo. There are a lot of places on the internet where you can get a tuxedo for very little money, although the accessories can add up a bit. Personally, I don't like rented shirts or shoes so I purchased my own but I like the convenience of having a freshly pressed tuxedo and dinner jacket hanging in my stateroom when I board. On a so-called formal evening I like to wear a dinner jacket to honour my wife by looking the best I can for her. I will wear a tuxedo when we go for dinner on our anniversary for the same reason.

paison March 15th, 2010 12:35 PM

Here's my Take!!
 
I must admit I go on mostly 10 day cruises but a tuxedo for me is the only way to go.You can buy them cheap such as at Penny's and it's the only suit I need for all 3 formal night. I have a red, gray, and black ties and cumberbunds and I use a different one for each formal night.No extra jackets or pants and shirts to worry about and more room in my suitcase.

Lakers Fan March 15th, 2010 08:34 PM

I posted this on another thread . Years ago it was the norm that men in business wear suits and ties everyday to work .I did this and liked the feeling of being dressed up. Approximately 15 years ago somebody came up with the idea of casual friday and casual friday became in many places casual wear monday to friday .Everyone that I worked with adapted to that and it became the norm.

Having said that ,I am not one to wear a tuxedo .I prefer a nice black dress suit but in actuality I would prefer no formal nights .I tather have business casual for dinner every night

Rev22:17 March 16th, 2010 06:32 PM

Henry43,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1280410)
I posted this on another thread . Years ago it was the norm that men in business wear suits and ties everyday to work .I did this and liked the feeling of being dressed up. Approximately 15 years ago somebody came up with the idea of casual friday and casual friday became in many places casual wear monday to friday .Everyone that I worked with adapted to that and it became the norm.

The trend to "business casual" actually started in southern California well over thirty years ago, as it was well established in the San Diego area when I arrived in Coronado for the first time in 1980. The dress codes at the Officers' Clubs on the bases in the San Diego area was quite simple: (1) shirts with collars, (2) no jeans, and (3) dress shoes -- the same as the dress code for "casual" evenings when I first started cruising. In business offices in that area, men were pretty much dressing the same way.

Factually, the "high tech" revolution of the 1970's and 1980's was very instrumental in spreading the "business casual" culture nationwide. Many of the "high tech" outfits started on the west coast, where "business casual" had become normative, and thus adopted it as their corporate culture nationwide. The rest, as they say, is history.

That said, "business casual" attire should look neat.

Norm.

jlauntz March 16th, 2010 11:40 PM

Before long sweat pants , T-shirt and flip flops will be acceptable. People just don't seem to give a d--n anymore.

Rev22:17 March 18th, 2010 05:52 PM

jlauntz,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1280601)
Before long sweat pants , T-shirt and flip flops will be acceptable. People just don't seem to give a d--n anymore.

Back in the 1980's, urban legend held that there was a clear distinction between "computer programmers" and "software engineers." The former wore suits and neckties, whereas the latter wore jeans and "T" shirts.

Seriously, a few companies actually do permit their employees to wear that sort of attire. Some years ago, a contact told me about a coworker at Apple Computer whom he described as a nudist who wore a speedo in the office to avoid offending the sensibilities of others.

That said, don't make assumptions if you visit a company once and see people dressed very casually. It may well be a special event. There are some companies who think that a "shorts day" in the middle of the summer and other occasions when they toss the normal dress code out the window are good for employee morale. There's always the possibility of some sort of special promotional event, too. A few years ago, our company encouraged all of us to come to work dressed according to our vision of retirement for a one-day promotion of the company's retirement plan, but it was strictly a one-day event. I can't help but wonder what a visitor who walked in on an office full of employees wearing bathing suits with either flipflops or masks, snorkels, and fins would have thought about that scene!

OTOH, there has also been a significant movement to restore standards of business dress especially in larger companies. Aside from wanting employees to look presentable when visitors tour the facility, some managers believe that employees who dress professionally are more apt to act professionally, and thus be more productive, in the workplace.

Norm.

johnthed0g March 23rd, 2010 06:37 PM

I think a Tux or Dinner jacket (essentially the same thing) looks nicest on a formal night.

Trackypup March 24th, 2010 07:00 PM

It's definitely on the way out for my Husband. For us vacations are not about formal nights so we just don't attend.

Rev22:17 March 25th, 2010 06:21 PM

Trackypup,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1282090)
It's definitely on the way out for my Husband. For us vacations are not about formal nights so we just don't attend.

If you don't want to dress for the "formal" evenings, why on earth would you choose a line like Celebrity Cruises over a line that does not have "formal" evenings? Azamara Club, Oceania Cruises, and Disney Cruises offer "all casual" cruises in the "premium" segment of the market, and I read a while ago something to the effect that Holland America Lines was also going less formal.

Norm.

Trackypup March 25th, 2010 06:30 PM

Why would I not?? they have options for people who don't want to participate. I can get room service, I can eat in a casual restaurant. We don't dine in the MDR or Specialty restaurant on formal night, we'd save those for Smart Casual. Just because we're done with lugging the tux around doesn't mean we should stay off Celebrity.

felix_the_cat March 25th, 2010 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trackypup (Post 1282090)
It's definitely on the way out for my Husband. For us vacations are not about formal nights so we just don't attend.


There is nothing wrong with your decision. You don't want to do formal so you go elsewhere. No reason to give up Celebrity.

johnthed0g March 25th, 2010 06:44 PM

Maybe it's me but my dinner suit or tux doen't weigh any more or take up any more room than an ordinary suit or jacket & trousers.

Trackypup March 25th, 2010 07:10 PM

We usually do a combo of cruise/land trip, so our last trip he did pack a sports jacket for dining in Paris and Monaco, but we wouldn't feel comfortable attending formal night just in a sports coat so it's easier to skip. We don't feel like we're missing anything in the MDR and have no issues eating room service on our deck watching the sunset with a great bottle of wine :)

felix_the_cat March 25th, 2010 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnthed0g (Post 1282244)
Maybe it's me but my dinner suit or tux doen't weigh any more or take up any more room than an ordinary suit or jacket & trousers.

It doesn't, I agree but it also depends on how your packing. If you are trying to just take a backpack and a rollerboard for instance, a suite or tux isn't going to fit. For a women, yes, we can get a really nice outfit in something like that because the material can be lightweight and mallable. A man's suit or tux definitely isn't. My DH does take his tux but he's in construction so dressing up is what he wants to do.

Everyone doesn't want to and that is also their choice.

matey March 26th, 2010 01:07 PM

Sorry. I really messed this up!

This is in reply to Rev. I forgot to quote you.

You are recommending cruiselines that are way more expensive. Please don't come back with Carnival or NCL! They are different than Celebrity in many ways. Most people, when choosing their cruiseline, don't even think of dress codes. They choose based on many other criteria.

johnthed0g March 26th, 2010 01:18 PM

On one hand I think how can anyone go on a cruise & not know about the dress codes.....BUT we did this exact thing some years back when we went to Jamaica...dress for dinner was long trousers, didn't think to pack any!!

matey March 26th, 2010 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnthed0g (Post 1282429)
On one hand I think how can anyone go on a cruise & not know about the dress codes.....BUT we did this exact thing some years back when we went to Jamaica...dress for dinner was long trousers, didn't think to pack any!!

Did you go to Cruise Jail?

dkjretired March 26th, 2010 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev22:17 (Post 1282240)
Trackypup,



If you don't want to dress for the "formal" evenings, why on earth would you choose a line like Celebrity Cruises over a line that does not have "formal" evenings? Azamara Club, Oceania Cruises, and Disney Cruises offer "all casual" cruises in the "premium" segment of the market, and I read a while ago something to the effect that Holland America Lines was also going less formal.

Norm.

Norm:

I hate to break it to you but Celebrity is not the formal line it used to be.

Don

johnthed0g March 26th, 2010 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matey (Post 1282433)
Did you go to Cruise Jail?

No but all I had was jogging bottoms!! we dined outside mostly...


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