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-   -   Celebrity Reflection (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/celebrity/377193-celebrity-reflection.html)

Paul Motter September 29th, 2010 04:02 PM

Celebrity Reflection
 
Celebrity just named their new solstice ship Celebrity Reflection. what do you think?

dkjretired September 29th, 2010 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Motter (Post 1320180)
Celebrity just named their new solstice ship Celebrity Reflection. what do you think?

There's a couple of comments on the previous thread on this..I like the name, no "silly" nickname...

http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/cel...hip-named.html

Trip September 29th, 2010 08:48 PM

I actually think the name is quite beautiful...think of the sun, or the moon, reflecting off the still water...

Pootersdad September 30th, 2010 08:12 AM

Celebrity Reflection
 
Well, after reflecting on it, I guess it's not too bad........:wink:

AshleeBelle October 1st, 2010 07:36 PM

Paul,

Can you tell me who wrote the article that linked me to this thread? It's not listed on the article and I would like to comment on it but I would prefer to know who I'm addressing.

Thanks,
Ashlee

Paul Motter October 1st, 2010 07:48 PM

I did write the article. I keep forgetting it does not say my name on there.

Paul Motter October 1st, 2010 07:52 PM

The thing that bothers me the most is the breakdown in the theme they had. Solstice, Equinox, Eclipse... and then Silhouette and Reflection.

I don't mind "Reflection" as a name. I think "Reflections" would have been better. In fact, my wife & I made a lot of Royal Caribbean and Celebrity names plural and I like them a lot better...

Voyagers of the Seas, Mariners of the Seas, Adventures of the Seas.

I am VERY tired of the "of the Seas" business, though. Do you suppose they do any actual focus group testing by IMPARTIAL people on this stuff? I doubt it.

Trip October 1st, 2010 08:06 PM

I think there would be a distinct difference in a focus group of people who cruised, and, people who have never cruised. Even some cruisers, just follow who made the arrangemants..sometimes they don't' know where the heck they are going, and they have no idea what the name of ship is..[this drives me crazy:)]

To a non cruiser, I would bet,when asked they are okay with most names.

To an educated cruiser, I bet they hate the duplcate names, and, the "theme" names..no originality, and, I don't think the cruise lines care what we think about the names....:(

AshleeBelle October 1st, 2010 08:59 PM

OK thank you for letting me know.

There are a couple of things I would like to point out to you. The first is that although Holland America's names may be both unspellable and unpronounceable to you and I they are part of a tradition with HAL that stretches back over most of a century and possibly beyond. Quite frankly each of those names has significance for HAL and is part of a tradition in ocean travel that can only be matched today by the Cunard line. Asking them to depart from them for the sake of the English speaking world's inability to spell or pronounce the names currently in use would be no different then people in China requesting that the name of the Queen Mary 2 or Queen Victoria be changed to something that they better understand or were able to spell. In my opinion it would do immeasurable damage to the reputation of a line that takes pride in it's traditions and that caters to a clientele that cherishes and respects those same traditions.

Of the Seas started in the mid 80s with Sovereign of the Seas which as we all know was the first of the modern mega-ships. She was originally named for HMS Sovereign of the Seas a British warship built in the 15th century. If you don't mind I will cut and paste the relevant section of her wikipedia entry to show why RCCL chose this name.

[I]Sovereign of the Seas was ordered in August 1634 on personal initiative of Charles I of England, who desired a giant Great Ship to be built. The decision provoked much opposition from the Brethren of Trinity House, who pointed out that "There is no port in the Kingdome that can harbour this shipp.[I]

As you can see RCCL was making a point of celebrating the size and grandeur of this ship with their name choice. This tradition continued with the first two classes of mega-ships they built with names like Monarch of the Seas, Grandeur of the Seas and Splendor of the Seas. Given that this was taking place at a time when Carnival was coming up with such classy and memorable names as Sensation, Jubilee, and Celebration and NCL was starting to call every ship they built Norwegian something (as if they owned a copyright on Norwegian owned and operated cruise ships) I find it refreshing that RCCL reached for something that really imparted a sense of character and class to their ships. Maybe it has grown old now that we are in to the 5 or 6th generation of mega-ships from RCCL. But I still find their names among the more inspired and beautiful of the ships being operated today. One final note if Sovereign had not been named for HMS Sovereign of the Seas should could have just as easily be name for Donald McKay's Sovereign of the Seas. An equally grand and beautiful ship for her time.

I do agree that it was foolish for Celebrity to abandon their astronomy based names, but honestly it could have been far far worse then it is. At least the new names still impart a sense of class and style to their vessels and honestly in this day and age that's almost more then a traditionalist can hope for or expect.

sarahpinz October 1st, 2010 10:30 PM

i have no problem with the name reflection.
It will be the last of this class ship so it is reflecting on all the wonderful things her sister ships have offered.
A reflection shows the best of everything. I will expect this ship to do that plus add extra sparkle--just as a reflection does in the water. Makes all look so much brighter and better.

What will be next? Got to go some to top this class ship and still keep the style and class of celebrity.

We want celebrity to stay the class act it is and not become a crowded resort ship!

And i love the azamara journey. She is a true lady!

Paul Motter October 2nd, 2010 01:41 PM

Thank you everyone for your answers. I want to be clear that the problem is not that I don't like the name reflection, I just don't like the fact that they broke down the theme. There are many things I think they could have used: Solstice, Equinox, Eclipse, Solaris, Celestial.

The they did the same thing with the millennium class ships. I was honestly trying to remember all for ships yesterday and I could not remember them. They are Millennium, Infinity, Constellation and Summit. Once again the theme broke down. All of the words were time or space related, except for the last one. How about "Celebrity Eternity?"

When they came up with Oasis of the Seas, I was very disappointed and equally by the sister ship Allure of the Seas. I don't think you can say and name Allure of the Seas without looking like Dana Carvey doing the "Church Lady."

Foremost, ship names should never have terrestrial connotations: Summit (a mountain top) and Oasis, which the dictionary says is a small piece of land in the middle of a desert.

I cannot tell you how many times people have asked me, "what is the name of that really big ship that just came out?" Imagine if they had just named the ship Genesis? How much more memorable is that? It is like the name Titanic, a name which no one ever forgets.

My wife brought up the idea of making the names plural. I think this works very well. Take a look at the Voyager class: Voyager, Explorer, Mariner, Navigator and Adventure. Once again, the theme breaks down with the last ship. I would have liked the name Adventures of the Seas better. I also would like the name Celebrity Reflections.

How about other names like discoverer, or Wayfarer? There are more but I am not working on that right now.

And I really do not mean to pick on Royal Caribbean, although I have to admit that it has been their names that I have questioned the most.

I very much appreciate what you said about Holland America. However, at the time they started that naming convention the company was a Dutch company. Today it is an American company. While I very much appreciate the concept as a ship lover, as a realist and a business person I think it makes far more sense to give ships memorable names. The last two ships, Eurodam and New Amsterdam, are very memorable, just like Rotterdam and Amsterdam. I just think they need to work along those lines a little bit longer and avoid the names that are not so memorable.

There are many names that I love, as I mentioned Seabourn Sojourn, Odyssey, and Quest. But that is a different topic.

AshleeBelle October 2nd, 2010 04:53 PM

I would argue that HAL is still a Dutch company despite being American owned. Do they predominately cater to Americans? Yes of course they do but I don't think that should require them to dumb down their names for the American market (that is after all what we are talking about here). America as a country is absolutely littered with names that are difficult to pronounce and confusing to non natives of a given area. If we as tourist on the great American adventure can adapt to names like Chattahoochee, Monongahela, and Pascagoula certainly we can handle something like Oosterdam and Zuiderdam.

I don't think Adventure breaks the chain as much as you contend. Adventurer would have been better I grant you but it still keeps to the theme of exploration and discovering started with Voyager. The two newest ships are probably the worst of the lot IMO but they are still far better then a lot of the other lines IMO. I think it would be nice if they would go back to the Song theme that RCCL did in it's early years, with Song of America and Song of Norway. Even the public rooms where designed around the concept of music an musicals with names like the King and I dining room and the Guys and Dolls lounge. Additionally I always felt Nordic Prince, Nordic Empress and Sun Viking were equally classy and workable names. Of the Seas has become such an iconic part of their image at this point however I would imagine it is unlikely that they will move away from it. It is as much a part of RCCL's current image as the old IC and IA naming conventions of White Star and Cunard once were.

Honestly I'm far more concerned with the increasingly ugly box shaped ferries that so many of the shipyards are turning out today then I am with some of the naming concerns expressed here. That is something that RCCL at least tries to avoid as their ships still have a semblance of nautical design and beauty to them that is sorely lacking in the ships being produced by most of the other lines now.

Dave Beers October 2nd, 2010 06:49 PM

I preferred the RCI names of old, which were simpler and also gave character to the ships. Sun Viking. Nordic Empress. Song Of America.

I also don't like the trend of adding the cruise line name to the ship names, but given so many names are being duplicated across lines I guess it is necessary. It used to be if someone said "I just sailed on the Freedom", you knew they meant the Freedom Of The Seas (sigh).

dkjretired October 2nd, 2010 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Motter (Post 1320640)
Thank you everyone for your answers. I want to be clear that the problem is not that I don't like the name reflection, I just don't like the fact that they broke down the theme. There are many things I think they could have used: Solstice, Equinox, Eclipse, Solaris, Celestial.

The they did the same thing with the millennium class ships. I was honestly trying to remember all for ships yesterday and I could not remember them. They are Millennium, Infinity, Constellation and Summit. Once again the theme broke down. All of the words were time or space related, except for the last one. How about "Celebrity Eternity?"

When they came up with Oasis of the Seas, I was very disappointed and equally by the sister ship Allure of the Seas. I don't think you can say and name Allure of the Seas without looking like Dana Carvey doing the "Church Lady."

Foremost, ship names should never have terrestrial connotations: Summit (a mountain top) and Oasis, which the dictionary says is a small piece of land in the middle of a desert.

I cannot tell you how many times people have asked me, "what is the name of that really big ship that just came out?" Imagine if they had just named the ship Genesis? How much more memorable is that? It is like the name Titanic, a name which no one ever forgets.

My wife brought up the idea of making the names plural. I think this works very well. Take a look at the Voyager class: Voyager, Explorer, Mariner, Navigator and Adventure. Once again, the theme breaks down with the last ship. I would have liked the name Adventures of the Seas better. I also would like the name Celebrity Reflections.

How about other names like discoverer, or Wayfarer? There are more but I am not working on that right now.

And I really do not mean to pick on Royal Caribbean, although I have to admit that it has been their names that I have questioned the most.

I very much appreciate what you said about Holland America. However, at the time they started that naming convention the company was a Dutch company. Today it is an American company. While I very much appreciate the concept as a ship lover, as a realist and a business person I think it makes far more sense to give ships memorable names. The last two ships, Eurodam and New Amsterdam, are very memorable, just like Rotterdam and Amsterdam. I just think they need to work along those lines a little bit longer and avoid the names that are not so memorable.

There are many names that I love, as I mentioned Seabourn Sojourn, Odyssey, and Quest. But that is a different topic.

Paul:

They never named them after Celestial objects and they have continued the theme... They are all named after cars....

Rev22:17 October 5th, 2010 08:03 PM

Paul,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1320550)
The thing that bothers me the most is the breakdown in the theme they had. Solstice, Equinox, Eclipse... and then Silhouette and Reflection.

Actually, it follows through on the theme -- the play on light and shadow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
I don't mind "Reflection" as a name. I think "Reflections" would have been better. In fact, my wife & I made a lot of Royal Caribbean and Celebrity names plural and I like them a lot better...

But all of the names are singular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
I am VERY tired of the "of the Seas" business, though. Do you suppose they do any actual focus group testing by IMPARTIAL people on this stuff? I doubt it.

No, I think it just sort of evolved. But OTOH, it does give immediate brand recognition to the ships of Royal Caribbean's fleet, much as the -dam suffix gives immediate brand recognition to the ships of Holland America Lines. I really like that form of branding a lot better than prepending the actual name of the line to what most insiders call the ship, a la the new names from Carnival and Celebrity.

Norm.

Paul Motter October 6th, 2010 11:08 AM

Quote:

They never named them after Celestial objects and they have continued the theme... They are all named after cars....
http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/ima...c/progress.gif :)

Even carmakers realize "Oasis" is a bad name for a moving object.

Paul Motter October 6th, 2010 11:15 AM

Quote:

Actually, it follows through on the theme -- the play on light and shadow.
I don't think "light" right away when I hear the words Solstice and Equinox. I think about Celestial bodies and their juxtapositional relationships.

As I said (or maybe I didn't) the names "silhouette and reflection" sound like wrist watches.

A ship is supposed to represent majesty and adventure, man conquering the elements to arrive at new places. They should be named after ancient gods, real Kings & Queens, words of adventure or accomplishment, tributes to famous places, etc.

Even the government run Space Program was more adept at finding names than some cruise lines: until "Space Shuttle"

BUt we had Mercury (the first manned capsule named after the first planet and also a Roman god) then Gemini to represent two people in a pod, then Apollo for our mightiest rocket ever built.

dkjretired October 6th, 2010 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Motter (Post 1321437)
http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/ima...c/progress.gif :)

Even carmakers realize "Oasis" is a bad name for a moving object.

Especially when you've had too many and start seeing the Oasis...Hopefully not while your driving...

dkjretired October 6th, 2010 11:50 AM

Actually, I like Relection, never did like Silhouette though. Its almost as if they named after the previous S class ships dining room and we always attach nicknames to these ships. Millie, Connie, etc. Doesn't seem right to call the ship Silly...

Rev22:17 October 6th, 2010 05:24 PM

Paul,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You (Post 1321439)
I don't think "light" right away when I hear the words Solstice and Equinox. I think about Celestial bodies and their juxtapositional relationships.

Actually, my impression is that Celebrity was not planning a class of two vessels when they chose the names "Solstice" and "Equinox" -- the events which mark the turn of seasons -- and thus had to scramble to come up with additional names for the subsequent vessels. But in any case, the word "solstice" actually refers to the extrema of duration of sunlight while "equinox" actually refers to the equality of daylight and night that occur at the respective planetary alignments. Of course, the word "eclipse" also refers to a panetary alignment in which the shadow of the moon falls on the earth (solar eclipse) or vice versa (lunar eclipse).

I'll grant you that Silouette and Reflection do not preserve the theme of planetary alignments, but they do preserve the theme of play of light and shadow. And in any case, I do think that Silouette and Reflection are better choices than Conjunction and Opposition (which are planetary alignments)....

Norm.

Manuel November 5th, 2010 08:13 PM

I don't care what they call the ships. What I want is a great cruise and enjoying myself while on the ship.

TM


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