I just got back from a 5 day cruise on the Celebrity Century. One would have been embarrassed to arrive in the Grand Dining Room in formalwear. I would have been one of them, but was glued to the television in the casino watching the Jets-Steelers game. In the casino there was literally no clue that it was a formal night.
On other lines formal or semi-formal nights are alive and well. Seabourn is no longer that formal as it has "formal optional' nights, but you will find that on most every night when a jacket is not required more than 50% will wear a sport jacket at a minimum.
They should just set dress codes & stick to them or forget it!! if you say wear what you like nobody will wear formal (men) or even a jacket. To be honest I doubt I would.
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JTD 2010
I just got back from a 5 day cruise on the Celebrity Century.
Yes, the four night and five night Caribbean itineraries have acquired a reputation for being that way -- the complete antithesis of the longer cruises.
Quote:
Originally Posted by you
On other lines formal or semi-formal nights are alive and well.
The "formal" evenings are alive and well on Celebrity's cruises of a week or more, too. For some reason, the four night and five night cruises draw a very different crowd.
The shorter cruises over here are a different passenger base altogether, but most dress up & seem to enjoy it. I wish people would stay dressed for the evening though, the shows look so nice when the audience is "dressed".
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JTD 2010
The shorter cruises over here are a different passenger base altogether, but most dress up & seem to enjoy it. I wish people would stay dressed for the evening though, the shows look so nice when the audience is "dressed".
Strange comment JTD.
Based on all my visits to London West End theatre, I have only seen one formally dressed couple. Denim is almost de rigeur.
As long ago as 1995, having a drink in a Theatre Royal bar, some locals (Kent) if I remember correctly - that only tourists dress up.
Yes, the four night and five night Caribbean itineraries have acquired a reputation for being that way -- the complete antithesis of the longer cruises.
The "formal" evenings are alive and well on Celebrity's cruises of a week or more, too. For some reason, the four night and five night cruises draw a very different crowd.
Norm.
Norm... you keep saying it's formal on the longer Celebrity cruises, yet I haven't found any other Celebrity cruisers agreeing with you. Even the folks I know who cruise Celeb but don't post on the boards tell me they certainly don't see it on their cruises.
From my sources, they say perhaps more on Celeb than other lines, but still well less than 50% of men in tuxedos or dinner jackets.
I retired my tux 4-5 yrs ago. Though I may dust it off for my upcoming Crystal cruise.
On my recent cruise on the Allure of the Seas, I was impressed by how well people were dressed. There were many gentlemen wearing tuxedos or fine suits and many ladies wearing beautiful gowns.
TM
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From my sources, they say perhaps more on Celeb than other lines, but still well less than 50% of men in tuxedos or dinner jackets.
I'm not sure whether you misheard or I misspoke, but in either case, you obviously misunderstood what I meant.
All of the major cruise lines adopted a "modified formal" standard of dress for the "formal" evenings back in the 1970's, when most gentlemen owned business suits because it was expected business attire (there was no "business casual" in that day) and few gentlemen owned tuxedos. For ladies, the "modified formal" standard of dress also admitted fancy cocktail dresses as well as evening dresses. Well over 95% of what I have seen passenges wearing on the "formal" evenings on recent Celebrity cruises still conforms to that "modified formal" standard of dress, which is what Celebrity still prescribes for the "formal" evenings. This was the meaning that I intended to convey in my earlier post, but it's obvious from the portion of your post that I quoted that it's not what came through.
Having said that, I'll add that I usually book the second seating for dinner, where I have observed a fairly even mix (somewhere between 60%/40% and 40%/60%) between suits and "black tie" outfits on the "formal" evenings. I can't speak to the mix between suits and "black tie" is different at first seating from personal experience, but it occurs to me that it's likely to be different because the passengers who are more into the formal scene probably are accustomed to a later dinner even ashore and thus prefer second seating.
Having said that, I'll add that I usually book the second seating for dinner, where I have observed a fairly even mix (somewhere between 60%/40% and 40%/60%) between suits and "black tie" outfits on the "formal" evenings. I can't speak to the mix between suits and "black tie" is different at first seating from personal experience,
Norm... I appreciate the explanation, and I'll at least agree that your estimates could be at least closer to reality Even if you're correct, I don't expect it to last as times (and dress) are still changing. Even the luxury lines have begun to minimize dress expectations, with the exception of Cystal Cruises.
My blog tomorrow (appearing on the home page) is all about this topic.
Norm... I appreciate the explanation, and I'll at least agree that your estimates could be at least closer to reality Even if you're correct, I don't expect it to last as times (and dress) are still changing. Even the luxury lines have begun to minimize dress expectations, with the exception of Cystal Cruises.
My blog tomorrow (appearing on the home page) is all about this topic.
With all due respect to Norm, his observations are not even close for the typical Celebrity cruises. The numbers of men in tuxes is probably closer to 10% with the rest being in suits, sport jackets of just plain shirts. This doesn't even account for the large numbers of people who are avoiding formal nights completely by either going to the Specialty restaurants, the buffet or dining in their room. Check other boards and you will be shocked at the numbers of people avoiding formal nights. I base this on hundreds of posts on other boards and my two cruises in the last year on Celebrity. Also, many of these posts are from European cruisers and those on longer Celebrity cruises. Formal isn't what it was ten years ago, not even close...A lot of people wish it was but it is simply not the case.
Formal nights on cruises of seven nights or more are not alive and well on Celebrity cruises. They have one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel. They will be gone in the near future or totally optional..
Now I'm going to confuse things even more. As of yesterday, Celebrity has removed the definition of formal dress that was previously on their web site. They used to define formal as a Tux, dinner Jacket or a suit. That has now been removed and I am curious what if anything this means. They still refer to formal but the defninitions are gone.
Now I'm going to confuse things even more. As of yesterday, Celebrity has removed the definition of formal dress that was previously on their web site. They used to define formal as a Tux, dinner Jacket or a suit. That has now been removed and I am curious what if anything this means. They still refer to formal but the defninitions are gone.
I hope that the new web page is correct and that it really does mean that formal night is disappearing. However, if that is their intent, they really need to remove any reference to formal nights from that page.
I did check a few minutes ago, and RCCL has not changed their dress code description; still includes formal dress recommendations.
Maybe RCCL, Inc. is trying to move "X's" dress code closer to Oceania (and others), or just increase the differences between their two sister lines.
It will be interesting how this plays out. Hopefully, it just reduced my Infinity/Alaska packing requirements!
Don't see the problem, they either have formal nights, define what to wear & stick to it or just forget the whole thing. BUT if they are going to have any dress requirements onboard, they have to define it & not leave it to the judgement of a restaurant/bar/theatre/casino manager.
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JTD 2010
Now I'm going to confuse things even more. As of yesterday, Celebrity has removed the definition of formal dress that was previously on their web site. They used to define formal as a Tux, dinner Jacket or a suit. That has now been removed and I am curious what if anything this means. They still refer to formal but the defninitions are gone.
It is now Friday and the web site has the definition of formal on four different locations that I can find. On three of those, the definition of formal has been eliminated although the wording is very awkward. Only under the packing section does it remain unchanged. I am curious if they even know about it because if you read it, the wording of the whole paragraph does not make a lot of sense. I guess we will have to see what occurs.
Don't see the problem, they either have formal nights, define what to wear & stick to it or just forget the whole thing. BUT if they are going to have any dress requirements onboard, they have to define it & not leave it to the judgement of a restaurant/bar/theatre/casino manager.
You are so right, the perfect example is what if going on with Blu right now. The Celebrity web site defines Blu as a Specialty restaurant for AQ passengers. In another portion of the site they state that all specialty restaurants are smart casual every night. People read these two items and do not bring formal clothes. They then are asked to dress formal in Blu on formal nights. They need to correct these inconsistencies.
Get serious. Never going to happen. Sporadic at best
So.. if they don't wish to enforce rules why bother at all, like having a speed limit that is "suggested".
I personally couldn't care a less about dress codes, but just wear what they ask, I am as comfortable in a suit & tie as a shirt & trousers (well maybe not AS comfortable but fine...) I suppose tuxedos & such are regarded as a thing of the past & maybe they are, I don't know why cruise lines are about the only place that dinner dress is required, a jacket is about as far as posh places go, even the tie is not universally required. I expect that years ago people said that smoking would never be banned & now it virtually is, maybe dress codes will go the same way...people power?
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JTD 2010
We always take DH's tux and I take dress ups. I just feel there is too much of a me me world these days. As cruises have gotten more affordable there are more people sailing who have no idea what dress up really means.
We will continue to take our "dress up" clothes as it suits us.
Jeans in the dining room are unsightly and I don't care how much you paid for them. A dressy top doesn't change the fact you're wearing jeans.
I wish the cruiselines wouldn't be so cowardly about enforcing their own rules. It's gratuities of course. If they enforce their rules people will get mad and thereby reduce gratuities accordingly.
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What REALLY annoys me is people who don't dress as asked call those who do SNOBS, when really those that do adhere to the dress code would be completely justified in calling the non-dressers something appropriate....I wonder what?? any suggestions?
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Some answer questions...I also question answers
JTD 2010
I wish the cruiselines wouldn't be so cowardly about enforcing their own rules. It's gratuities of course. If they enforce their rules people will get mad and thereby reduce gratuities accordingly.
And by not enforcing the rules, they (1) allow those who don't follow the rules to torque off a lot more passengers than would be torqued off by enforcing the rules pretty strictly and (2) allow the environment to degenerate into a free for all in which the rules and the authority behind them become irrelevant.
The disregard of authority could get people killed, especially in a casualty situation.
What REALLY annoys me is people who don't dress as asked call those who do SNOBS, when really those that do adhere to the dress code would be completely justified in calling the non-dressers something appropriate....I wonder what?? any suggestions?
I'm not persuaded that it's just one group. I'm linquistically challenged, but, off the top of my head (and not in any particular order), there are slobs, boors, low lifes, trash (in the sense of "trailer park trash" or "white trash"), mal élevé(e)s, nouveaux richs (or nouvelles riches if it's all females), scum, sleezeballs, slum dwellers, sewer rats, and many more. And for adjectives, such individuals may be ignorant, arrogant, clueless, boorish, unrefined, tacky, ill-mannered, rude, sloppy, tasteless, etc. You also can combine the adjectives with the nouns for more possibilities.
Of course, the "politically correct" term for all of the above is "socially challenged," but some of us are not into political correctness. :-)
What REALLY annoys me is people who don't dress as asked call those who do SNOBS, when really those that do adhere to the dress code would be completely justified in calling the non-dressers something appropriate....I wonder what?? any suggestions?
I think snob is good in defining those who do not want to dress up-in the sense-they think the rules do not apply to them-that sounds like a snob to me-a snob thinks him/herself are "above the little people."
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A recent Alaska cruise on Celebrity had two formal nights, the second one was optional, first I had heard of that. Smart casual every night on Celebrity coming soon, bet on it.
The only place where formal dress is required is the MDR on the formal nights. No where else on the ship or at any other affairs. They don't even enforce that as evidence by the number of men in sports coats, no ties, etc.
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Even if you're correct, I don't expect it to last as times (and dress) are still changing. Even the luxury lines have begun to minimize dress expectations, with the exception of Cystal Cruises.
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