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Old May 4th, 2011, 01:37 PM
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Question Celebrity Summit?

Anyone have hands on accounts of being on this ship within the last year or so? I know it was built in 2001. Updated in 2008... I have the stats.

But how did it look and function to you? (Did you spend a lot of time off the ship?)

This is in Spanish (which I can read), but this person is obviously not happy with the ship. YouTube - Celebrity Summit 2010

There is an Aug cruise I was considering on this ship.
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Old June 26th, 2011, 03:34 PM
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We were on a cruise to Bermuda at the end of May 2011 on the Summit. Truthfully we were surprised at how the ship is still in pretty good shape. We were on it in 2004 and loved it.
We have also been on the Equinox, and all the pictures show the new ships, which might disappoint you when you get on the Summit. Yes, the ship does need to be redone. The only problem I found was in my bathroom, it was smaller than the Equinox( I was spoiled with that) and it did need some upgrading. The rest of the ship was (We thought) in good condition, considering the age of the ship. And the food in the main dining room was great. We love the size of the ship, the other ships are too big, too many people.
In Bermuda, you have free range for three days, we did a lot off the ship in those three days, but I if spent the time on the ship, it would have been fine with me.
I know this is late, but hope it helps.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 06:17 PM
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BlueCruise,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Anyone have hands on accounts of being on this ship within the last year or so? I know it was built in 2001. Updated in 2008... I have the stats.

But how did it look and function to you? (Did you spend a lot of time off the ship?)

This is in Spanish (which I can read), but this person is obviously not happy with the ship. YouTube - Celebrity Summit 2010

There is an Aug cruise I was considering on this ship.
I was aboard GTS Celebrity Summit for the ten night Southern Caribbean cruise over Halloween last October-November. The ship was in excellent condition overall, and everything seemed to be in good working order. Most importantly, the trashy decor from the Cirque du Soleil "Bar at the Edge of the Earth" debacle, which exuded all the class of a freshly "toilet papered" college dorm room, was mostly gone from the disco/night club. There were still some white danglies in the overhead, but they were unobtrusive and thus did not detract from the appearance of the room.

There will always be malcontents who will post videos trashing a product on YouTube or similar sites in the hope of getting some compensation to silence them, no matter how good a product may be. I would not give such videos much weight unless you see a sudden rash of them from many different people.

That said, the more fundamental question is whether Celebrity is the right choice of cruise line for a particular passenger or family. Celebrity offers a "premium" product that is the most "upscale" of the major cruise lines, though not quite up to the standards of the luxury lines like Crystal and Silversea, and thus caters to substantially upper middle class to upper class passengers. The line retains the traditional "modified formal" standard of dress for its "formal" evenings and nearly all of the passengers conform (reportedly except on the four-night and five-night Caribbean cruises, which draw a very different crowd). The shops aboard Celebrity's ships generally offer quality merchandise at fair prices for the quality, but don't expect to find cheap merchandise at bargain basement prices. Obviously, this product is not a good match for everybody. For those who prefer "pretzels and beer" to "wine and cheese," it's a total misfit. At the other extreme, the "champagne and caviar" crowd may need to lower their expectations slightly unless they spring for premium (suite, concierge class, or AquaClass) accommodations.

Norm.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
BlueCruise,



I was aboard GTS Celebrity Summit for the ten night Southern Caribbean cruise over Halloween last October-November. The ship was in excellent condition overall, and everything seemed to be in good working order. Most importantly, the trashy decor from the Cirque du Soleil "Bar at the Edge of the Earth" debacle, which exuded all the class of a freshly "toilet papered" college dorm room, was mostly gone from the disco/night club. There were still some white danglies in the overhead, but they were unobtrusive and thus did not detract from the appearance of the room.

There will always be malcontents who will post videos trashing a product on YouTube or similar sites in the hope of getting some compensation to silence them, no matter how good a product may be. I would not give such videos much weight unless you see a sudden rash of them from many different people.

That said, the more fundamental question is whether Celebrity is the right choice of cruise line for a particular passenger or family. Celebrity offers a "premium" product that is the most "upscale" of the major cruise lines, though not quite up to the standards of the luxury lines like Crystal and Silversea, and thus caters to substantially upper middle class to upper class passengers. The line retains the traditional "modified formal" standard of dress for its "formal" evenings and nearly all of the passengers conform (reportedly except on the four-night and five-night Caribbean cruises, which draw a very different crowd). The shops aboard Celebrity's ships generally offer quality merchandise at fair prices for the quality, but don't expect to find cheap merchandise at bargain basement prices. Obviously, this product is not a good match for everybody. For those who prefer "pretzels and beer" to "wine and cheese," it's a total misfit. At the other extreme, the "champagne and caviar" crowd may need to lower their expectations slightly unless they spring for premium (suite, concierge class, or AquaClass) accommodations.

Norm.
Although Celebrity is an excellent cruise line, Norms description of the passengers on board and dress is about five years old.

Passengers are middle class with some upper income patrons with many families taking the cruise. They could not compete if families were not a large part of their clientele.

Food has definitely taken a downturn from when I started cruising Celebrity in the early 90s. It is still excellent but the Specialty restaurants provide pretty much the same experience that you got on Celebrity in the MDR in the early 90s.

I have been tracking very closely and monitored hundreds of posts on other boards about the dress situation. First, Celebrity does not enforce their own dress code. Second, passengers are doing everything they can to avoid the MDR on formal nights. They are either eating in the limited buffet, room service or using the Specialty restaurants which are smart casual every night. Third, those who are going to the MDR and wearing a tux or a suit are in the definite minority. On all cruises, Alaska, Europe, Caribbean, Bermuda etc. you are seeing less and less people in tuxes and men are either wearing a suit or a sport jacket with or without a tie. Doesn't matter the length of the cruise. To give you a real impression of where things are headed here are two facts, first, Celebrity a few months ago removed all bans on Jeans in the MDR. Second and finally, the only place on a Celebrity ship where passengers are asked to dress formally is the MDR on formal nights, no where else. Even at that they don't enforce the rules as people enter without jackets, ties, etc. at will.

I still enjoy Celebrity and will continue to sail with them. I don't really care what the dress code is as I will abide by it but reality tells me they are going to smart casual every night and very soon.

Also, I put this on another post, there was an Alaskan cruise a couple of weeks ago where the second formal night was optional. Never saw that before.
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Old July 1st, 2011, 06:07 PM
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Don,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Food has definitely taken a downturn from when I started cruising Celebrity in the early 90s. It is still excellent but the Specialty restaurants provide pretty much the same experience that you got on Celebrity in the MDR in the early 90s.
Celebrity's cuisine did take a turn for the worse when Michel Roux retired and the company retained Elizabeth Blau and Associates as cullinary consultants. Since Jacques van Staten took over, it seems to be back to where it was.

That said, styles of cuisine are very much a matter of personal preference. The heavily French style of Michel Roux has given way to a balance of styles that seems to work better for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I have been tracking very closely and monitored hundreds of posts on other boards about the dress situation. First, Celebrity does not enforce their own dress code.
Enforcement is admittedly inconsistent, but I noticed only a handful of passengers who did not comply during two cruises in the past year (a ten night Caribbean cruise and an eight night "Wine Cruise" along the Pacific Coast).

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Second, passengers are doing everything they can to avoid the MDR on formal nights. They are either eating in the limited buffet, room service or using the Specialty restaurants which are smart casual every night.
This could well be a very vocal minority. On the forementioned cruises, the attendance in the main dining room did not seem any sparser on the "formal" evenings than on other evenings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Third, those who are going to the MDR and wearing a tux or a suit are in the definite minority. On all cruises, Alaska, Europe, Caribbean, Bermuda etc. you are seeing less and less people in tuxes and men are either wearing a suit or a sport jacket with or without a tie.
To the contrary, over 95% of the men wore either "black tie" or business suits, with dress shirts and neckties, for the "formal" evenings on both of the forementioned cruises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
... but reality tells me they are going to smart casual every night and very soon.
That may well happen, but Celebrity is clearly the slowest of the major lines to move in that direction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Also, I put this on another post, there was an Alaskan cruise a couple of weeks ago where the second formal night was optional. Never saw that before.
What did the poster mean by "optional" -- did the ship officially say that the "modified formal" standard of dress was optional, or did they mean that there were alternatives to the main dining room where casual attire was acceptable so that one could "opt out" of participation therein?

If the poster meant the latter, all formal evenings are "optional" in that sense.

If the poster meant the former, I suspect a miscommunication.

Norm.
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Old July 3rd, 2011, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
Don,



Celebrity's cuisine did take a turn for the worse when Michel Roux retired and the company retained Elizabeth Blau and Associates as cullinary consultants. Since Jacques van Staten took over, it seems to be back to where it was.

That said, styles of cuisine are very much a matter of personal preference. The heavily French style of Michel Roux has given way to a balance of styles that seems to work better for me.



Enforcement is admittedly inconsistent, but I noticed only a handful of passengers who did not comply during two cruises in the past year (a ten night Caribbean cruise and an eight night "Wine Cruise" along the Pacific Coast).



This could well be a very vocal minority. On the forementioned cruises, the attendance in the main dining room did not seem any sparser on the "formal" evenings than on other evenings.



To the contrary, over 95% of the men wore either "black tie" or business suits, with dress shirts and neckties, for the "formal" evenings on both of the forementioned cruises.



That may well happen, but Celebrity is clearly the slowest of the major lines to move in that direction.



What did the poster mean by "optional" -- did the ship officially say that the "modified formal" standard of dress was optional, or did they mean that there were alternatives to the main dining room where casual attire was acceptable so that one could "opt out" of participation therein?

If the poster meant the latter, all formal evenings are "optional" in that sense.

If the poster meant the former, I suspect a miscommunication.

Norm.
Most people see what they want to see. I am going by comments on hundreds of posts on various boards and they included your cruise in which several people contradicted by a large margin your percentage of clothes worn which you stated in a previous thread. By the way, it was the Century on the cruise following yours that the 2nd formal night was made an option. You could go into the MDR on formal night dress as smart casual. It was officially done so by the ship. Celebrity does not recognize a modified formal dress, that is another one of your terms that confuses people, it is either Formal or Smart Casual. There are plenty of alternatives to the MDR if someone choses, the MDR is the only place on the ship where formal dress is requested, no where else on the ship.

I have also been on two Celebrity cruises in the last year as well as daily reading numerous posts on this and other boards. Your comments on Celebrity are just simple not based on reality any more.

Finally, my name is Don, not you, I really resent that and I know several others do.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 06:04 PM
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Don,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Celebrity does not recognize a modified formal dress, that is another one of your terms that confuses people, it is either Formal or Smart Casual.
If the dress code were "formal," gentmen would wear "black tie" (tuxedo or dinner jacket). There would be no option to wear a business suit with a shirt and tie.

The term "modified formal" is widely used in contemporary manuals of social etiquette to mean a modification of a true formal dress code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
Finally, my name is Don, not you, I really resent that and I know several others do.
If you look at the very first line of my replies to your post, you'll notice that I addressed the whole post to you by name. When referring to the person to whom one is speaking, the appropriate second person pronoun ("you" or "your" or "yours") is the customary way to do so.

So I guess that I really don't understand what it is that you resent. Could you explain this further?

Norm.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
Don,



If the dress code were "formal," gentmen would wear "black tie" (tuxedo or dinner jacket). There would be no option to wear a business suit with a shirt and tie.

The term "modified formal" is widely used in contemporary manuals of social etiquette to mean a modification of a true formal dress code.



If you look at the very first line of my replies to your post, you'll notice that I addressed the whole post to you by name. When referring to the person to whom one is speaking, the appropriate second person pronoun ("you" or "your" or "yours") is the customary way to do so.

So I guess that I really don't understand what it is that you resent. Could you explain this further?

Norm.
The dress on Celebrity is Smart Casual and Formal, why confuse people who are looking for information. Suppose someone comes on this board and reads your modified formal title and puts it in the web site. Nada.

I resent it because it shows a lack of respect for the posters who answer you.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 05:08 PM
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Don,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
The dress on Celebrity is Smart Casual and Formal...
That's not correct. On the "formal" evenings, the prescribed (or "requested") dress is correctly called "modified formal." If it were really "formal," as defined in any authoritative manual of social etiquette, a business suit would NOT be acceptable attire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I resent it because it shows a lack of respect for the posters who answer you.
Sorry, but I don't agree that the standard usage of the second person pronoun is in any way disrespectful to the person to whom one is speaking. Rather, it's the customary usage of the English language. If you are going to go through life taking offense at every person who addresses you as "you" when speaking to you, you will be needlessly upset at an awful lot of people, through no fault of any of them!

I will grant you that the formatting of quotations on this site ("Originally posted by [b]<poster></b>") is a bit clunky. It would be better if the site software formatted the line as "<poster> said:" instead. Unfortunately, I have no control whatsoever over that.

Norm.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 07:32 AM
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Fellas - this has wandered far from the original topic. Time to take it outside.

I cruise Summit in October and this sartorial discussion has not helped me.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
Don,



That's not correct. On the "formal" evenings, the prescribed (or "requested") dress is correctly called "modified formal." If it were really "formal," as defined in any authoritative manual of social etiquette, a business suit would NOT be acceptable attire.



Sorry, but I don't agree that the standard usage of the second person pronoun is in any way disrespectful to the person to whom one is speaking. Rather, it's the customary usage of the English language. If you are going to go through life taking offense at every person who addresses you as "you" when speaking to you, you will be needlessly upset at an awful lot of people, through no fault of any of them!

I will grant you that the formatting of quotations on this site ("Originally posted by [b]<poster></b>") is a bit clunky. It would be better if the site software formatted the line as "<poster> said:" instead. Unfortunately, I have no control whatsoever over that.

Norm.

Here is the dress code from Celebrity's web site:

Ladies: Skirt or pants (no holes, rips or tears) complemented by sweater or blouse.

Gentlemen: Pants (no holes, rips or tears) with sports shirt or sweater. Shirts must have sleeves.

Examples of "Formal" attire include:

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown, or dressy pantsuit.

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks

Modified formal does not appear anywhere in this definition, as I stated, it is what Celebrity calls it that is important, modified formal may be fine for other places but on Celebrity ships it just confuses those who are looking for information. Simple as that.

I am aware of the definitions of "you" etc. I am a retired Police Officer in the inner city, I have been called more names than you could every believe. I have spoken to people on this board in emails and they also find it disrespectful.
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Old July 7th, 2011, 05:01 PM
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Don,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Here is the dress code from Celebrity's web site:...

Examples of "Formal" attire include:

Ladies: Cocktail dress, gown, or dressy pantsuit.

Gentlemen: Tuxedo, suit or dinner jacket with slacks

Modified formal does not appear anywhere in this definition, as I stated, it is what Celebrity calls it that is important...
I disagree. Celebrity should adopt accepted terminology of social etiquette. This prescribed dress does NOT meet the standard definitoin of "formal" attire. If Celebrity, or any other cruise line, does otherwise, it is the cruise line who is introducing confusion into the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I have spoken to people on this board in emails and they also find it disrespectful.
I do wish that you would stop purporting to speak for others under the pretense that it represents some sort of consensus. There's an unfortunate human tendency to avoid disagreement with somebosy who asserts a particular position in order to avoid an argument or even a protracted discussion. In playing the game of Duplicate Bridge competitively, I often have to check that the right opposing pair has come to my table. I have learned to ask, "What is your pair number?" rather than "Are you pair seven?" (if pair seven is the pair that we are to play). Why? Because many people, desiring to be agreeable, instinctively answer the second question in the affirmative without thinking whether that answer is correct or not, even if they are not the right pair.

This is the same dynamic that's causes a phenomenon known as "group think" in which a group of individuals converge on some position, and then participants suppress contrary evidence either by failing to voice it or by trying to silence those who do through retribution or unfounded contradition. On whatever other discussion board you claim to see a large consensus expressing non-conformance with Celebrity's dress codes, there may well be a dynamic of "group think" at work in which those who hold a different view keep silent for the same reason. If you were not there, what you post is hearsay.

Norm.

Last edited by Rev22:17; July 7th, 2011 at 05:08 PM.
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Old July 8th, 2011, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
Don,



I disagree. Celebrity should adopt accepted terminology of social etiquette. This prescribed dress does NOT meet the standard definitoin of "formal" attire. If Celebrity, or any other cruise line, does otherwise, it is the cruise line who is introducing confusion into the matter.




Norm.
Let me get this straight, you are saying that Celebrity is wrong because they don't properly define formal as per the standard definition??? So Celebrity doesn't know how THEY want THEIR guests to dress because it doesn't match with what YOU perceive as the proper definition of formal. Therefore, everyone should conform to what YOU think is formal, not what Celebrity would like to see on their own ships.
Surley you jest.
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Old July 8th, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Let me get this straight, you are saying that Celebrity is wrong because they don't properly define formal as per the standard definition??? So Celebrity doesn't know how THEY want THEIR guests to dress because it doesn't match with what YOU perceive as the proper definition of formal. Therefore, everyone should conform to what YOU think is formal, not what Celebrity would like to see on their own ships.
Surley you jest.
Agree completely with you Rich, based on all the dress code threads around, its confusing enough especially since Celebrity for the most part doesn't enforce it. Why confuse it more. Surely he must be joking.

This is a cruise board not a court of law. Also it is not heresay if I talk to people first hand about it.
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Old July 8th, 2011, 04:54 PM
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richsea,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You View Post
Let me get this straight, you are saying that Celebrity is wrong because they don't properly define formal as per the standard definition??? So Celebrity doesn't know how THEY want THEIR guests to dress because it doesn't match with what YOU perceive as the proper definition of formal. Therefore, everyone should conform to what YOU think is formal, not what Celebrity would like to see on their own ships.
Surley you jest.
Okay, it's time to find a manual of social etiquette at your local library and look up the definition of "formal" attire therein.

This is NOT something that I am making up. Rather, this is long accepted social custom not only in North America, throughout the developed world.

It is much bigger than Celebrity Cruises.

So yes, I'm saying that Celebrity Cruises is wrong in not using terminology that has a long accepted meaning in the standard way.

Norm.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev22:17 View Post
richsea,



Okay, it's time to find a manual of social etiquette at your local library and look up the definition of "formal" attire therein.

This is NOT something that I am making up. Rather, this is long accepted social custom not only in North America, throughout the developed world.

It is much bigger than Celebrity Cruises.

So yes, I'm saying that Celebrity Cruises is wrong in not using terminology that has a long accepted meaning in the standard way.

Norm.
I really have better things to do than go to the library and get a book on social ettiquette. Celebrity is the host and they set the rules and the terminology. Nobody says your lying, its just not relevent. The bigger and more important question is, if Celebrity has rules they should follow them or lose them. The other point is your use of whatever terminology you wish to use is confusing. YOu have done that on a couple of other issues because you think your right and all it does is confuse those looking for information.
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Old July 9th, 2011, 11:54 AM
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O.K. guys-enough already. For all eternity, on every cruiseline, there will be people who do not adhere to the SUGGESTED dress code. That's life. But the majority of cruisers do follow the guidelines.If a few people show up on formal night without a tie, I find it no more offensive than someone showing up at a Halloween party without a costume. No laws have been broken!
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