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Kuki February 5th, 2004 02:50 PM

Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smokers
A tidbit of new from our Carnival Spirit cruise... in regard to smoking and non smoking. The article I wrote about this should be appearing on our home page in the next few days, but in the mean time......

It seems Carnival is attempting to come up with a reasonable solution to the smokers vs non smokers aruguement.

They are experimenting now (as they were on the Spirit) with having many of their lounges onboard, and most public areas, except for cabins and outside decks, designated TOTALLY non smoking, and other lounges with continued areas designated for both.

Now I'm sure the PC zealouts will complain that everywhere should be non smoking, but to me it seems someone is finally trying to come up with a reasonable solution.

Especially interesting since Carnival had recently announced they were abandoning their non smoking policy on the Paradise.

Perhaps some local governments should consider a similarily reasonable approach to the problem when dealing with an otherwise still legal activity.

KimJack February 5th, 2004 03:17 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
The major complaint we've had about smoking on board has related to the casinos. Do away with smoking in the casinos and maybe half of the bars/lounges, and many of us non-smokers would be happy. Unfortunately, while maybe only 20% of the overall population smoke tobacco products, it seems that the figure in casinos and bars (for some reason) rises to about 50%. But I'd say that CCL is taking a step in the right direction, although I regret their decision with regard to the Paradise.


cruisinKandJ February 5th, 2004 04:21 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
A totally non-smoking environment is best. I would think that such an approach would be simpler for Carnival and other cruise lines as well.


ToJo February 5th, 2004 06:03 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Kuki, surely with all the kerfuffle in Calgary about the smoking Bylaw, you don't expect local governments to take a reasonable approach on this subject! I can't remember how it affects your bar as I have tuned out the subject. As a reformed smoker (and you can't get more self-righteous than us ex-smokers) I now prefer a non-smoking atmosphere. As long as it is a legal substance, however, I think the anti-tobacco
gestapo have gone too far. Be allowed to advertise your establishment as smoking or non-smoking and the market will soon sort out if you have made the right choice. This is a no win situation for Carnival but at least they are addressing it and trying to come to a reasonable compromise.


Kuki February 5th, 2004 06:47 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Everyone will die eventually, so not much of a discussion there.

Kids certainly shouldn't be in lounges anyway, so not much of a discussion there.

Though smoking is undoubtedly bad for one's health, it's still a legal activity, and if the gov'ts weren't addicted to the tax revenue the industry generates they'd have the gumption to make it totally illegal.

Carnival tried a non smoking ship. Unfortunately the non smokers didn't support them enough with their vacation dollars to keep the ship profitable. Should they have kept the ship as a loosing venture, as non smokers called for while cruising elsewhere?

Folks can run on about banning the activity..... rather than be willing to compromise to find a reasonable solution. Doesn't seem to be too much of a stretch to see people like that blowing people up, or going to war, because someone doesn't know it's their way or no way.

rollerdonna February 5th, 2004 08:59 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Sounds lik eCarnival is willing to try a compromise. On the Legend, our biggest complaint was having to walk through the open "cigar lounge" when leaving the dining room to go anywhere else. It was disgusting, and I had to hold my breath or risk an asthma attack. A "smoking room" should be completely enclosed, with a CLOSED door, not an open thoroughfare.


suesue February 5th, 2004 09:59 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Kuki, Have you heard about possibly CCL having some 100% designated non smoking cabins? What do you think of this concept? Perhaps those people booking these cabins could sign a contract similar to the contract we sign for Paradise. This way there is some sort of accountibility. Otherwise, IF the cabins are merely designated non-smoking, folks will smoke in them. I might be able to dodge around the first hand smoke, residual smoke and smoke odor elsewhere, but, my biggest concern is where do I sleep for the 7 + days I am cruising? Certainly I would think that each ship with hundreds of cabins could have, oh, and I am guessing 50 or so 100% smoke free cabins. And possibly even, some 100% smoke free Balcony cabins?? How do you suggest I sent this idea to the top? This is my compromise Kuki, and if you don't already know, I am very vocal on Non-smoking issues. What do you think, fair or not? Sue Sue PS: Thanks for the update, at least there sounds like there is possibly some good news. I hope it isn't a tease......

richard February 5th, 2004 11:05 PM

Re: Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non

Thanks for putting in the reasonable post on a "hot" topic. Unfortunately there are those among us who only see it with "My way or the highway". Of course that can apply to lots of irritants...have you seen the Gripe boards recently!

The smoking issue can be a big problem, but as you and others have said, it IS still legal to smoke. And that's about all I will say on this issue.


BobbieE February 6th, 2004 06:56 AM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Sounds like a great idea. But I still have this thing about the balconies. I guess I expect smoke in a casino or bar, and if I do not want to deal with it, I stay away. But when I go out on my balcony to breath in the beautiful clear ocean air, that is what I really want. At least is half the ship is non-smoking there should be some non-smoking decks to enjoy. There has got to be some kind of reasonable solution to this.

Thomas February 6th, 2004 07:43 AM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
I think the ventilation systems on the ships are great but I think too they can be better. Some areas of the casino, lounges and bars can be non-smoking and ventilation systems can be designed to keep positive air pressure in the non-smoking area and negative air pressure in the smoking area.

What's so hard about this. It's a simple calculation.


Dorothy February 6th, 2004 08:28 AM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
It does seem pretty simple.

For the folks that are asking for totally non-smoking - it's been tried with the Paradise and unfortunately, not enough people felt the way you do and booked the ship. Don't expect any totally non-smoking ships in the future. I'm happy that Carnival is at least making an attempt to bridge the gap.

If you read the gripes board you might think we also need a non-blue jeans ship, a "skinny" ship, a kidless ship.....what's next?


Kuki February 6th, 2004 09:05 AM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Sue... Before this move by Carnival, I've posted in other smoking threads, that I didn't understand why ships didnt have offer both smoking and totally non smoking lounges.

I do think designating at least some cabins totally non smoking is a good idea. NCL tried offered it a few years back. One side of the ship was smoking the other side non. They found they weren't filling the non smoking cabins.

Possibly non smokers don't cruise as much as smokers. I have no idea on those statistics.

The cruise lines obviously try to make their decisions based on what will maximize their profits. If Paradise had done well as a non smoking ship, all the cruise lines would have non smoking ships.
It turned out the non smoking policy on Paradise hurt their revenues.

Unlike many land based businesses, they had no local governments telling them what they could and could not do to their privately owned businesses.

Personally, I think even on land consumers should dictate smoking policies. Restaurants and Bars do what they think is profitable as well. If these business owners see non smoking facilities are getting the business, they'd naturally go non smoking.
I don't believe we need govt micro managing our lives.

Thomas February 6th, 2004 09:15 AM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Another post well said by Antlerhead.


PEB February 6th, 2004 10:17 AM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
I think the compromise of having some smoking lounges and some non smoking lounges is a good one. Perhaps having part of the casino walled off for smoking and non smoking sections would also be a good idea. I am glad that Carnival is at least making the attempt to provide a few more smoke free areas while still allowing smoking for those that need to smoke.

Shipbound February 6th, 2004 11:01 AM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
I live in Ct the restaurants went non-smoking October 1,2003 and April 1,2004-bars,cafes and taverns will be non smoking.


Kuki February 6th, 2004 11:28 AM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Gary,... this is a common trend but there are many bars, restaurants, etc, who I'm sure didn't do it voluntarily, but the move was dictated by local governments

It's the further intrusion of gov't into the the decisions of business owners I object to. They're not a good partner to business... they want their share of the profits, in the way of taxes, and they want to tell businesses how to operate, but they aren't there to share the work load when real work needs to be done!

And they certainly aren't there to put cash back into the business when their decisions cause the businesses income to drop!!!

Set2cruz February 6th, 2004 01:13 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Well said Kuki.

Thomas February 6th, 2004 01:40 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
I agree with Kuki 100%.

The government didn't risk any money on me when I opened my first restaurant 8 years ago but they sure want to tell me how to run it now and share in the revenues.


Edited to include: I am signing over the construction and installation of the sewage system and lift station to the local utilities for $1.00 right now which gives them the right to allow anybody to tap into the lines for no charge. And I just spent $80,000 to have it installed last summer. Now they own it by law. Does this sound like Gestapo?

Post Edited (02-06-04 13:44)

Bob M February 6th, 2004 02:39 PM

Re: Coming Up.. a reasonable solution to the smokers/non smo
Smoker vs non-smokers is a subj you can beat to death. My wife and I are x smokers and usually request non-smoking sections, although to me I don't care. But no matter what the rules are for smoking there will be someone who will break the rules. If you say no smoking in a particular bar there will be someone who will ignore it, and will get indignant when you point this out. Case in point we stayed at the Riverside Hilton prior to sailing on the Conquest and booked a non smoking room and a sign on the door indicated no smoking and as soon as the door was opened it smelled of fresh cig smoke, even the bell boy made a comment and called to the main desk, they changed our room but the idea of someone booking a nonsmoking room and then choose to ignore it. Most of the time smokers will follow the rules but there are the ones who say kiss off and light up. If I smell smoke when I enter a no smoking area you better be on fire.
38 days till Miracle
Bob M.

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