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Old March 21st, 2005, 06:09 AM
salem5050
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Default Schiavo case...what do you think?

So what do you think of the Schiavo case? It truely is sad on all, her husband and parents.

I feel that this is should not become a politcal case. This scares me so much, to have the goverment interfear with my decision on such a horrible thing in peoples lives.

10 years ago I had to make a decision to stop life support on my wonderful mother. It was hard in some sense but easy in another way. I know my mother would not have wanted to stay in a vegetated state. I can not imagine if the government stepped in to make my decision worse.

So as you can see my opinion from my own experience is...goverment stay out!

And I truely hope if something happend to me they would let my husband make any life or death decisons on me, because after 32 years of marriage he surely knows my wishes. And also I have a living will.

Please do everyone a favor and draw up a living will for yourself. Its easy you can find a format on the internet for free and only takes a few minutes.

Mary Margaret
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Old March 21st, 2005, 08:02 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

I have seen what happens to caregivers when they live and breathe to support the life of a loved one in such a state. John's sister lived like that. Her son drowned at 5 years old. He was underwater (cold water in a pool) for over 20 minutes. They couldn't find him because they had clorinated the pool that morning and you could not see him at the bottom. The pool was fenced in and locked but Matthew climbed over when his mom was on the phone. She realized that she hadn't seen him in the house and told her friend she had to go. Despite the fact that this child was under the water (freshly and heavily clorinated) for over 20 minutes, the doctors fought to revive him. He lived as a vegetable with feeding tubes and diapers till he was 16. His father and mother went through bankcrupty because of the bills.....carol sue aged so fast. She was completely grey within two years, gained almost 100 pounds and tried to kill herself three times. The stress was intense. Matthew lived at home. Carol sue and her husband couldn't go anywhere or do anything unless they hired a nurse to be with Matthew. He just couldn't be left with a regular sitter. He also had a trach tube that had to be cleaned periodically.

I family believes that Matthew should NOT have been revived. The doctors knew he would be severely brain damaged and even told carol sue that he may not live long and would need constant care. He ingested all that clorine which damaged his lungs and of course brain damage begins within 4 minutes under normal circumstances.

After Matthews death they divorced. It was too much for them. Matthew had ZERO quality of life and his parents had the same.

The courts have no right to decide this woman's fate. It has already been reviewed by 19 judges over 5 years. What more is needed?

This is a good reason for a will at an early age. Then YOU can decide DNR or whatever you want. I know that I would not ever want to live like that and be an emotional and financial burden on anyone. I also just wouldn't want to be like that. Being fed by IV and living in diapers. Although my husband knows my wishes, everything is in a will.

Government needs to butt out of this and let the family deal with it. Her husband is her caregiver. He knows her wished too.

I have also seen people try to fight cremation when it is CLEARLY the persons wish for it. Why do we fight someone's wishes? In the case of a spouse having to live their life caring medically for someone in that state.....that spouse loses all quality of their life too.
Sad.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 08:22 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

I have mixed views on this case..sad and troubling either way you go.But,Im not too sure how long this couple was married,but it seems he moved on with his life.I think when he took another woman into his home and had 2 children with her,he should have given her up to her parents.If this was my child,I would certainly want every chance to save my child.I guess you never know until your in that position.My husband and I have totally different views on this subject.He does feel that the man should have given the care over to her parents,but then he thinks the parents should let her go.I could understand it if she was on a breathing machine too.One of the worst days in my life was when us 7 kids had to get together with my mother and make the decesion of turning off my dads machine.Thank goodness God spared us this and took him home,but the hours we agonized over it was a day I dont wish on anyone.May everyone in this situation find the strength and peace they need.Dot
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Old March 21st, 2005, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

Very well said MM and Carole, and with great compassion. I totally agree. Both Don and I long ago completed the Five Wishes Living Will. We have already covered each level, including the feeding tube issue.....so last night's government intervention is foiled in our case. This was necessary due to his/our fear that his children would hold on for dear life at all cost. Not something he wants. My girls share my thoughts and feelings, so I was not concerned, but we wanted to take the burden of a decision off of all of them.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 08:49 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

The fact that OUR government is interfering in the private lives of it's citizens scares me.. The courts had already ruled on this issue.. it has become a political item.. My husband and I have specific wishes as to the quality of our life/death if it comes to that point..I've worked in a hospital and every patient is asked to fill out a form. For myself I would not want to live the way the young lady in this case is living.. it's been 15 years.. Please let her die in peace. This case will effect us all.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

The government should not be involved in this matter. It is of a personal nature not political. Her husband made the decision he claims she would have wanted. Her parents should respect this decision. As a parent I would probably feel the same way as her parents do but would hope and pray that I could accept my child's wishes, no matter how painful. How healthy can it be for them to remove then reinsert her feeding tube so many times? If this was Terry's wish then it should be granted. We can only pray that any suffering she may experience, if any, is minimal.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 09:04 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

Terri has been suffering for these 15 years, even though she may not know it. She should be left to die and be out of missery.

I agree with all of the past statements. The Government should not be involved. It has become a political issue and the law was drawn up earmarked for an individual. That is wrong IMO.

Now lets hope the Federal Courts will agree with the State Courts and do not allow the tube to be reinserted.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

I do not think the government should be involved in this case. It is so sad for everyone. As a mother, what a tough call............ Something should have been done about this years ago. According to what I understand, Terri's husband didn't divorce Terri, but lives with a woman and has children with her.........Why doesn't he just divorce her and give her up to her parents to do what they want? I feel sorry for him too, he wants to move on but can't. Didn't he say that Terri told him she didn't want to live like that???

My daughters and I were talking about this yesterday.......what decision would they make, what decision would hubby and I make??? One daughter said, "Isn't it ironic that the reason she is in this shape is that she tried to starve herself through bulimia and anorexia and now the issue is........should she be starved???"" Sad in every way you look at it, but I don't think the U.S. government has any right to interfere in our personal lives this way.........
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Old March 21st, 2005, 09:18 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

Enough is enough and hopefully the supreme court will uphold ALL the lower courts rulings.

The federal government has a hard enough time running the politics of the nation, they need to stay out of personal matters. This has gone on long enough and the medical facts are there.

I can understand that the parents do not want to lose there child, but I believe they need to take a step back and take the emotional part of it out of the picture and see it from just the logical and factual points and I think they would see where all of these court decisions have come from. It's time for Terri Schiavo to rest.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 09:22 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

The government should not be involved, I hope this makes people get those living wills and power of attorney etc. DH and I have had these things for years and periodically update them so they are current and our wishes are upheld.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

Sad on all fronts, no doubt about it.

Do the living will, people. There's no other way to go. If you don't want others messing with your lives, you have to be proactive in preventing it. It's as simple as that.

As far as the "government" is concerned, let's face it, the "government" is involved as soon as the first court gets into the act (the judical branch of government). In this case, the Florida courts have looked at the matter long and hard and, in my opinion, with great senstitivity and compassion. They wound up where they wound up, with the complete understanding that there are really no "good" answers.

In this string, I think what most of you mean when you say "government" is the legislature, and specifically the federal legislature, aka Congress. And, boy, are you right about that. What really frosts me are the sanctimonious conservatives who on 364 days out of 365 favor "state's rights" and who want the national government out of people's lives. Until, of course, a state's decision goes against their beliefs. Then, we have Congressional sessions extending into the wee hours (and during what was supposed to be a recess, no less), in order to overturn the decision of the state. And throughout their arguments are material misstatements of fact, which are evident to anyone who has followed the case at all. The more those statements are challenged, the more they are restated, as though repeating them will make them true. Hypocrisy in the extreme.

Well, if you're a Creationist, you'll have to agree with Mark Twain that the problem is that the Lord didn't get around to making man until the end of the week's work. We'd probably be better off if he'd done us on Monday.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

Something else I found out recently, since we are talking about living wills, updating them, etc.........With the new law regarding privacy with doctors, hospitals, etc. HEPPA, I think it's called..........If you hold a Power of Attorney for someone, elderly friend, elderly parent, etc., you have to make sure that it specifically lists a provision to act for them in medical situations not relating to Living Will issues. I recently had to fill out forms to file with Social Security to act on behalf of an elderly lady friend whose Power I hold. She in in nursing home, dementia, etc. and I needed to appeal a Medicare decision for something they wouldn't pay. Medicare wouldn't accept my Power of Attorney (9 years old) because it didn't specifically list provisions for medical because of HEPPA law. Living will was formerly the only medical thing you needed, but HEPPA changed that.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

I can only reiterate what has been said above ,,, prepare a living will (and/or any other similar document) or be prepared to face the consequences. I'm furious with the Brothers Bush, (Jeb & George) for politicizing this unfortunate matter in the name of their "conservative compassion". The law should be followed, and apparently the courts have done just that! The Florida and U.S. legislatures and the Bush brothers should butt out.

While Terri Schiavo isn't being kept alive by mechanical means, nourishing her by means of feeding tube still seems to me a violation of her desires (as expressed by her husband). But who know what she really wanted for herself? A living will would have resolved this problem long ago.

Jack

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Old March 21st, 2005, 10:29 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?


http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...3/306hhsrh.asp

As in every case normally before the courts..........follow the money. You should read this article and research the money trail before you make your mind up in this case. However, having said that, I agree the government should not make the choice. How can we know what this woman truly hears and understands? Often people come out of a coma and repeat many things they have heard while comatous. I say this will open the door for euthanasia for older individuals whom would be a government liability. Hardly the liability that the prison system is today, nevertheless, a liability. JMO

http://www.weeklystandard.com/Conten...3/306hhsrh.asp
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Old March 21st, 2005, 10:52 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

My sons were born 15 weeks premature... one got very sick and my husband and I had to make the decision to keep him on life support or let him be. After spending time with him we told the doctors to remove life support. Our son was not fighting to stay alive so in his best interest we let him go. His Twin brother fought tooth and nail every time he had a life or death situation Chris fought so hard that we told the doctors to do what they must.

I would have lost it if the government told me to keep them both on support. My husband knows my wishes but my mom does not so a living will would be in my best interest.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 10:56 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

Talk about a meddling mother-in-law!
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Old March 21st, 2005, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

This is a very sad case but it shouldnt be on this board, people take cruises to relax and get away from the problems of the world if only for a short time.

Schiavo should be allowed to decide for herself whether to live or die, the problem here is that the person making the decision has an ulterior motive for wanting her dead. As long as she is alive he has to pay her medical bills. Based on press reports he is presently living with another woman who he wants to marry and with whom he had had children. He wants to get on with his life and have a new life, perhaps he should be allowed to do this but not at the expense of killing his wife.. Her parents and siblings love her and want her so she should be allowed to live.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 11:36 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

I personally think the answer is -Only God Knows.

I listened to the dad of the girl who contracted rabies here in WI on the radio this morning. He said when confronted with the decision in regards to his own daughter, his thoughts and feelings about the issue changed. When none of the doctors and specialist held out any hope for his daughter, he told them to just do all that they could. She is the only known person to survive from rabies. It's been a long road to recovery and she isn't done with it yet, but she is in school and maintaining an A average. I think the answer is we just don't really know what the mind is capable of. We don't know what we will do in a situation like that until we are put to the test. I believe we need to err on the side of life. I do believe in and have a living will. The question is not an easy one, and I believe the answers have to be case specific.

Phyll

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Old March 21st, 2005, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

I don't agree with the ulterior motive issue since most of the $$ from the malpractice award has been exhausted with this long term battle. I think he does still love her... but he has faced reality.

One thing about living wills which is very much in the media... there are a lot of do it yourself kits out there.... but just a word about that... if you do a living will yourself ... you might want to have it looked over by an attorney for acceptability in all states! If something were to happen and you are out of state... they may not accept your directive! Mine is written in NH and I found out through an attorney friend that mine was not valid 2 states away in RI... and I spend a lot of time there!... Just food for thought!

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Old March 21st, 2005, 12:21 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

Am I alone in seeing the supreme irony that those who most often rail loud and long about "federal court" interference in peoples lives are the very ones who railroaded this ill advised bill through Congress?

Having said that, I admit that I have very mixed feelings on the case. I could make a rational case for both sides in this tragic tale. I am hoping that God settles this matter by taking Terry home before either side of this debate makes political hay out of this tragedy.

Some may pray for the Parents and some for the Husband, personally I am praying for Terry.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 12:38 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

This issue is faced by hundreds of people every day. Why this one gets all the attention, I don't know. But I think it's the husband's choice and not the parent's. Once married you are considered one entity which involves both people.

Brothers Bush preach about less government in private lives and then jump right into the middle of this public one. Any way they can gain attention is a good cause for them.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

i am a 50 yr old man who loke mary margaret 10 yrs ago had to say goodbye to my one and only MOM, she suffered from COPD, the wife and i decided to have mom move in with us where she couldbe with her 2 grand babies, 9&6, she enjoyed that very much. tammy my wife stayed home with mom for almost a year before she died. when mom was is the hospital we had her sign a living will, they were not well known 10 yrs ago, she had nose and mask oxeygen, kept falling off, suffering could hardley breath, i made the call and signed a DNR that evening, 5 hrs later they called and said mom had passed. there are certain things in life that have to be done, it should be left up to the family and let them hash it out, it was very tough for me to sit here and write this, i have gotten over moms death, but on special occasions, and certain songs i hear i think about mom and tears come to my eyes, like now.



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Old March 21st, 2005, 12:54 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

The absolute LAST thing this entire case is about is the welfare of Terry Schiavo.

If it were my family, the last thing I would do is turn her into some kind of poster child for my beliefs... how sad the whole world has to see her in that state. Is there no dignity afforded anymore? Shame on everybody involved.

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Old March 21st, 2005, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

I think the Federal Gov't should stay out of it ! It's a personal matter. It has made me decide to write down my intentions.
My husband feels that if we put ourselves in the Doctor's hands, and we trust him, and he says there's no way that I could be or he could brought out of a vegetative state, or there's no hope for recovery, then we must go with his assessment and let the loved one go.Me, him, mother, sister, child,etc. He also believes that we can't leave it to God to decide. He believes that God works through people, so, if she lives or dies, it has been the people in the crux of all this misery, including the Drs, Judges, etc. who will make whatever will happen come to pass.(Let's hope it's not the Federal Gov't-Congress or President). I've also altered my feelings about Jeb Bush because of all of this. But even then, it's a State issue, and he has been overridden. It should not be going to Congress or the President!!!

I also agree with Thomas, that once married, you are another family and let go of the parents, and the parents should understand that, too! In this case, I don't think they like, or ever liked the husband and this has become a cause against him. The unfortunate thing is that Michael can't prove in writing what Terri told him-because-she didn't think she'd be in this situation so suddenly. Lynne

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Old March 21st, 2005, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

It should never have become a political battle or showcase. He is following his wife's wishes and taking a lot of abuse over it. He has even been offered millions of dollars to walk away but turned it down to fulfill his wifes wishes. All the Doctors that have examined this young lady have agreed that only the brain stem is viable. That means that Terry Schiavo is no longer there, she is dead or whatever her essence or what makes Terry Terry. Her ceriable cortex which controls all thought, emotion, voluntary movement etc, is not there and it is not possible for it to ever return. Let the body join the mind as being dead. It is morbid to do otherwise IMHO. She is dead, let the body join her in my opinion. The good thing about this if you can find one is that many people including my wife and I are having it written down now instead of allowing it to be verbal agreement as it has in the past.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

I agree with everyone else in saying that the government and the Bush brothers have no business being involved with this. My husband and I learned a lot about health care surrogates, POA, DNR's, HIPAA etc. with our experiences with our dads passing and will hopefully never be in such a situation.
I only hope that Teri can pass peacefully before another intervention.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

He could have had the marriage disolved years ago, he hasn't. Yes he moved on with his life, he knew there was no hope of recovery but he still hung in there with her. There comes a time when you have to let go. They can give her meds so there is no pain. We also had to let my mother go so I do know the pain of letting go. Bless them all.
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Old March 21st, 2005, 10:39 PM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

Another thing I might mention on a person note. A few years ago my Dad was diagnosed with cancer that had spread and it became noticable again because he could not swallow due to the cancer attacking that part of the brain. The only option was to insert a feeding tube and Dad might live as long as a couple months and probably in a good deal of pain or really doped up to make him confortable. The other option was to not put in a feeding tube in which case he would last about two weeks. We talked it over with Dad and at first he wanted the tube. After telling him what would happen and that the cancer was terminal and his life would not go beyond a couple more months at best he decieded that this would not only prolong the ineviatable but cause him pain. No feeding tube. As it was Dad died in less than a week and from the cancer and not from lack of food but still, had we put in the tube he would have suffered pain and discomfort for no reason at all. He also still had his mind with him, unlike Mrs Schavio. It is sad but usually for the best. Some cases it needs to be done but in some others...just wrong.
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Old March 22nd, 2005, 07:45 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

It is a very sad situation all around, but I feel that her parents just refuse to accept the reality of her condition, and won't give her the dignity of giving in to the inevitable. When my Mom was diagnosed with incurable colon cancer, we decided no more hospital visits, no more transfusions, and to let her go in peace. My husband and I were there when she passed away, and it was a very peaceful passing, no pain. I experienced my husband's uncle passing away from colon cancer, and it was not a pleasant experience at all.

I would pray for Terri to just have a heart attack or something and mercifully end this drama.

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Old March 22nd, 2005, 08:01 AM
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Default Re: Schiavo case...what do you think?

If anything, this should underline the importance to everyone - no matter which side of the debate you are on - the importance of a power of attorney and a living will.

You can get a great one called "Five Wishes" that is legally binding in most states at http://www.agingwithdignity.org/

Cheers,
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