One of the more interesting debates on these boards concerns the behaviors of kids on cruises and where are the parents. Many posters (who may or may not have kids)go to the point that they want to avoid cruises with alot of kids Of course the responses always indicate it' must be "other parent's" children that act up, never " ours", so it started me to think who are the "other parents and those other kids that their parents don't seem to be able to control".
It dawned on me that perhaps the "Eddie Haskell" syndrome is in effect, which means kids may be nice as pie while their parents are around but hell raisers when parents aren't present (and they don't think other cruisers or the ship's crew will not (or cannot) report their bad behavior to their parents (or parent's who would not believe them if they did)
The reverse syndrome might also come into play. Conventional wisdom would indicate that most parents with kids that they cannot "control" would not take them on a cruise in the first place. However, very often other people will tell a parent how well behaved their child is when in the presence of other peope .
Any parents who have managed to live thru the pre teens to 18 stage, can attest to they can never figure out why this group does what it does from one day to the next
What do you think ? The cruise lines seem to do a great job with structure for kids with their programs for kids up thru 13/14 but it seems to fall apart for the 14-17, which seems to be the group that posters say cause problems.
I never had that problem as a youth because I figured my parents had eyes in the back of their heads and knew everything
makes pefect sense to me, you know that phrase " When the cat's away the mice will play" that about covers it. It is a small minority, most of the kids we have encountered were well-behaved in public.
Consequences for your actions - as you said, worked for you!
That 15-17 year old age group is a really tough demographic. The maturity levels are so varied that its really hard to make a program that works. It seems that a teen center with video & computer games, soda , snacks and sports seems to work the best. Teens have away of seeking eachother out. When our little group cruised we had three teens (13,15,17) and they thought that the majority of the organized teen activites were "stupid and "lame" they much prefered the video/computer/arcade games, sports and just hanging out with eachother at the pool.
You are right about the "awkward teen" stage, it's hard to please such a diverse group of interests and maturity levels. My son has now been on 3 cruises through the ages of 14-16, and about to go on his 4th at 16 1/2 (yes, that 1/2 makes a difference!). The first time, I forced him and his friend to go to the first night "teen club" get together, to find out what activities were offered, and to meet other teens. They said everything was "lame" and proceeded to spend most of their time either in the arcade, or watching movies in their cabin. Since then, my son, on his own, has become an "adventurer" in that he explores the ship from top to bottom, figures out the best routes to whereever he wants to go, and also is pretty good at meeting other teens who just want to "hang out". He has never been a rowdy or disrespectful kid, and I am sure he is well behaved onboard. In fact HE has complained about how other older passengers are rude and intolerant of each other!
It is obvious you have never see a juvinile delinquent being picked up at the Police Station or talked to an Officer about these little demons. I have seen so many parents that cannot believe their little angel who is always polite and helpful could do any of those terrible things we said they did. In the meantime we have officers who have cuts and scracthes on them and have heard words come out of them that would turn a hookers face red. Heck, some of them were with hookers! <>
Jim, in my other life I worked for the New York State Division For Youth so I know how bad kids can be when they are picked up by the police and how parents think everyone else is wrong when told about their child. I think it's a sign of the times. We just had a recent shooting of a youth by the police here in New Orleans and the father of the youth that was shot was on tv indicating that the police had no right to kill his son just because his son drew a gun on the police (he said his son had a gun for protection because some kids had been bothering him)..my first gut reaction is what was his kid doing with a gun in the first place, and why didn't he take it away from his son)
However, back to my original post, many posters complain that the ship's crew does not enforce the rules when it comes to kids acting up on board, and I contend it's not the crew's job but the parents,
Maybe one of the new features on ships should be "kiddie lockup", where your parents have to "bail out " theif kids when they act up.Great source of revenue for the cruise lines. They could use the pictures that everyone takes when they first come on board, for a line up
Venice, I love that idea! Our first cruise, there were children piling into the elevators and just riding up and down during the evening hours, another incident, kids running up and down the hallway and threw a piece of cake at our door. We heard a thud, my DH went to investigate, and, of course, stepped right in it. We made many complaints, but it just did not seem to help.
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I'm an adut leader in boy scouts and can PROMISE you kids will behave differently when their parents are not around. Does that mean they all behave badly? Certainly not, but some do.
In boy scouts, we have parents that think that BSA (Boy Scouts of America) stands for "baby sitters of america." Those same parents are getting on board the ship and hoping some other adult will watch their children. For every caring, involved parent, there seems to be a parent who wants someone *else* to raise their children for them and entertain them in the process.
I've been lucky on my cruises and have never seen really bad behavior, but I believe it when I hear others tell their stories of misbehavior.
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Probably one of those situations where everybody is right, but I think Jim & Co. have the "preponderance of the evidence" on their side. I've known parents of truly awful kids who swore up and down--as the old saying goes--that "Everybody's out of step but my son John." Confronted with evidence of an evil deed these parents deny it, and seem congenitally unable to recognize any defects whatever in their offspring.
On cruises, the "natural tension" will always be present between those who want (and feel they deserve) a family vacation and those who want a peaceful, non-urchin-ridden vacation. Both points of view are reasonable. Just one of those things. Most people who think about it figure out ways to solve the dilemma. A good agent can help with this.
Jim, I really have no respect for the parents that always blame the other person for the trouble their child gets into.
I had no problems with my kids in school or anywhere else because we taught them well. We put the fear of God into them (that was a peach tree limb from about the age of two). We tolerated alot but the lines were drawn. If we promised them something we delivered. A whipping or a treat.
The principal at their high school once told me." If I had a school full of kids like yours I would have no problems." My kids are now productive citizens, a banker & a government worker.
The parents now will not back up the the authority in the schools & are far too willing to blame the teachers, when the parents are the ones failing.
I never had that problem as a youth because I figured my parents had eyes in the back of their heads and knew everything.
Venice...your parents (and mine too) DID have eyes in the back of their heads. They were the eyes of other parents/neighbors. Nowadays (uh oh...I'm sounding old) other parents/neighbors won't "tattle" on misbehaving kids.
Unfortunately WAY TOO MANY parents get on the ship, and think that's the signal for the kids to have total freedom, and they can be on vacation from parenthood as well.
It's plainly not enough for parents to insist their kids be at dinner, but allow them to run free the rest of the time.
I am so lucky. We've never had to "insist" on our daughters be at dinner or spend time with us while on a cruise. They enjoy the time we spend together on a cruise. They didn't have to spend all their time with us, but dinner time especially was the time we enjoyed being together the most. We still do, and they are now 19 & 24.
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