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Old July 17th, 2005, 03:52 PM
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Default Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

Did anyone notice the scientific study published yesterday in The Lancet, relating to the power of prayer in medical situations? According to the esteemed scientists, praying for someone who is ill and preparing to undergo a risky medical procedure appears to have no effect on the patient's future health.

One-half of 750 people undergoing heart-related procedures were prayed for by religious groups (Muslims, Jews, Christians and Buddhists), while the other half received no organized prayers. Researchers at Duke University found that "...the prayers had no effect on whether patients had post-procedure complications such as heart attack, death or readmission to the hospital."

So should we now stop offering prayers for friends and family members we consider to be in danger? I think you all know the answer to that. No way, Josť! I'm afraid that the next scientific study might look into the matter of praying for the deceased and its effect on their trip into the hereafter. Or has science already discredited our silly idea about life after death?

Jack

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Old July 17th, 2005, 04:33 PM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

take it from someone who had a heart attack, prayers are critical..I am firnly convinced I would not have made it thru that experience without prayer from my familiy and friends and my cardiologist validated that prayer is a powerful healing tool
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Old July 17th, 2005, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

I too personaly have had experiences where prayer has made a total difference in the outcome. I went thru open heart surgery right after i was married (even though i was essentially healthy to begin with --just to repair a birth defect which wasn't giving me any problems) they told me i'd be in hospital 10-days to 2 weeks and on the respirator (when i woke up )for at least 24 to 36 hrs. I was off the resp. in about 2-3 hrs (or i would have strangled someone! ) out of ICU in 2 days and home in 5-7 (can't remember that long ago) lol that is all thru the power of prayer! Several years later, i avoided a colostomy because of prayer! --No scientific evidence is going to convince me otherwise--however you also have to beleive and have faith as well. and that's something that science will NEVER prove.

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Old July 17th, 2005, 06:58 PM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

They obviously haven't heard about the power of Cruisemates!
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Old July 17th, 2005, 07:36 PM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

I guess we better pray for them too, they need it more than we do.
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Old July 17th, 2005, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

I agree...prayer doesn't help. Quality medical care, a will to survive, and great support is what matters.

I also don't like the term "good luck." I don't need good luck when going for a test or a stressful situation at work. I need proper preparation. Why do people say "good luck?"

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Old July 17th, 2005, 10:29 PM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

Perhaps if your belief system is strong, either personally praying or knowing others are praying for you can have an added psychological, perhaps even indirectly physiological benefit.

However: just having ad-hoc prayers made on one's behalf by unknown persons and expecting noticeable results is just plain silly. I'm glad a study confirms my suspicions.

I personally think the terms "Act of God" and "Random Chance" have an uncanny correlation statistically speaking. However, if the "Random Chance" factor spins in your favour, you are a believer for life. Those on the flipside tend to be "naturally selected". I also think God, or whatever name you prefer, is way too busy with important stuff to be forever granting wishes from those in need. But, heck, pray if it makes you feel better.



Post Edited (07-18-05 00:13)
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Old July 17th, 2005, 11:19 PM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

I have seen the power of prayer happen too many times, especially here on CruiseMates. Keith and his brother, Wendell, have benefited from these prayers, and I soppose, indirectly so have Wendell's wife and I. Keith and Wendell are alive today partly because of prayer. If you don't believe in it, why do you come on this thread?

Judy
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Old July 18th, 2005, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

I think that the study mentioned in the original post does NOT discount the power of prayer, it merely suggests no effect can be seen when an ill person is anonymously prayed for. The key concept is "awareness". The study needs to be continued to follow effects upon those aware of prayer vs. an unprayed-for control group. (even then who is to say someone is not praying for loved ones in the control group?)

my equation on this subject:
(certain religious beliefs) + (awareness of prayer) = (possible activation of innate survival impulses)

I also suggest that the after-effects of prayer are physiological, and not Divine in origin. That being said, who is to say that God is not physiological?

The human mind is an incredible and unfathomable thing of immense potential. God is in there.

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Old July 18th, 2005, 03:43 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

I am a "Karmarist" by choice and not a religious person at all.

I truly believe that for religious people a prayer is the same for them as a good thought sent, is for me.
They are one and the same.

Praying or sending good vibes helps the receiver as well as the sender.
But the receiver needs to know that they are recieving these good thoughts and prayers, otherwise it will not help at all.

I "personally" thank Lisa, Angela Z, Bill (BW), sue, rollerdonna, Luanne, Sharon, Phyll and Brenda in Canada for their Help with my friend Mike Bowden.

I did the same as RD and printed all your good wishes/prayers and gave it to his wife "Maria".

It made me feel better and I and sure it will make you feel better as well as the Bowden family.
Well done, all.

Cruise Cynic you still crack me up!

>>my equation on this subject:
>>(certain religious beliefs) + (awareness of prayer) = (possible activation of innate >>survival impulses)

So true.



Post Edited (07-18-05 03:57)
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Old July 18th, 2005, 07:33 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

Hereís my take on it. When people pray for something and donít get it, they automatically assume that prayer doesnít work. Personally, I think all prayers are answered, itís just that sometimes the answer is no. Sometimes what we want is not always whatís best for us.

Gail
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Old July 18th, 2005, 07:35 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

Although I am not a person who prays, I'm always glad to get prayers from those who do. I usually send my good wishes and kind thoughts with the hope that they too are of some value to the recipient.

Hope comes from all kinds of well wishers and supporters, religious and not-so-religious. When I had my accident and surgery, I was very glad to hear from all of the good cruisemates, regardless of their beliefs.

Thanks All!
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Old July 18th, 2005, 08:16 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

Prayers, good wishes, whatever... they're all the same, they just mean that someone CARES, and that's what's important. I too saw that study in the paper yesterday and was surprised at the results.

donna

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Old July 18th, 2005, 08:42 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

Lots of studies offer different results for all kinds of things. This particular one doesn't affect my belief in the power of prayer at all.

The sarcoma that I had left the doctors with little hope, but they made the best educated decision they could, and I got the chemo treatment. To the doctors surprise and mine, the tumor was gone after the second round of chemo. I was praying ,and so were many of you and a lot of others. Did the chemo work alone? Who really knows? I believe that it happened because of the power of prayer. For whatever reason Jesus loves me, inspite of all my short commings and whatever the outcome, I knew that He was with me.

I wonder also, if prayer doesn't help, why do most people call out for God in crises situations? It seems to be an almost inborn (God given) response to me.


Phyll

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Old July 18th, 2005, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

I do not know what i would do without prayer. My love of the Lord does not come out as a sermon, but with my actions. I say many a prayer everyday, and that sense of relief comes over me, and i can made it through. Prayer and Doctors have gone hand and hand for years now. In some cases, prayer is offered during rounds, and Doctors have asked for prayer during difficult cases.

I ask for your prayers for my husband, and I will always give you my prayer, because that's the way it should be.

Luanne
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Old July 18th, 2005, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

What a wonderful thread. I had no idea that some here shared concerns of the heart and well-being. I like you Luanne aim to keep a prayerful mindset throughout the day, seeking direction and right choices. My first prayer of the day is that His light shines through my actions so that others can see something that could help them as well. Small choices almost always have big consequences. I will be happy to offer a prayer for anyone's concerns here.

Gigi
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Old July 18th, 2005, 10:51 AM
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Default Re: Prayer doesn't help?!?!?!

As Gail (sea queen) states, sometimes the answer is no. Just knowing that others are praying/thinking of me always make me feel better. Our lives are already planned for us. I have posted a few times a poem about this and I have a framed copy in my living room. Whatever happens in our lives is a story already written. People just need to know that others are thinking of them in a positive way with prayers. Whether the outcome is good or bad, the recipient of the prayers and thoughts knows they were loved.

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