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Old November 19th, 2005, 10:52 AM
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Default Finally spoke my mind to a Doctor!

So I take my Mom to a Doctor appointment a week ago. We wait for an hour and 15 minutes in the lobby. I go up to the girl and ask if it is going to be much longer. She says it will be at least 45 to an hour before I even get in a room. Then there will be 3 people ahead of us and no idea how long that will be. I tell her no, this is not going to work, I'll need to reschedule. I make a new appointment, (she never offers an apoligy), and when I'm done I say to her. "BTW, I understand that sometimes you have situations that causes these back ups, but it is not acceptable to have a patient wait for over 2 hours and assume it is ok with them. You should advice me of the wait and make that my choice." My voice was "matter of fact", but not rude. She just gave me a look and said, "well, thats the way it goes here sometimes".
"In the future, you should let me know, I do have other things to do then to wait here all day."

A week later I return with my Mom (about a 45 minute wait in lobby, 15 minutes in the room) and much to my surprise the Doctor comes in and starts with this, "let me explain something to you!" My staff tells me that you were irate and rude last week because you waited so long", he then goes into the speech, "I spend as much time with my patients as I have too, till I feel they fully understand...bla..bla...speech. You know the speech. He says his patients understand once they get to see him.... I listened carefully till he is done, then he goes right into, "OK, now about your Mom".

"Hold on!" "Please don't come in here, go into your very well rehearsed speech and then think that because you say that, it is ok. I'm sorry, its not. First of all, you have to know, that I was not irate and I am offended that your staff would write that on my mom's chart. I was not, as I am not now. Please understand that I do respect you, and understand that you are a Doctor that cares and very busy. But you have a lobby right now of 8 people out there and most have cancer and not feeling well, and you can't tell me they are happy about it because you spend 20 minutes with them in here once they see you." "Do you have a office manager?"
"Yes"
"Does she schedule your appointment and make sure your office runs well?"
"Yes"
"Fire her!" Surely there has to be a better way. So you can have the time with your patients and we don't have to wait 2/3 PLUS hours to see you. Now if you want to discuss this future, I'd be happy to, but call me, because I don't feel we should waiste anymore time backing you up more".

Man, that felt good!

He agreed and went onto his business. Although I know nothing will change. He is very good at his trade and I do trust him, but he never expected me to say anything back to him. The look on his face was priceless. I was more upset about the fact somebody wrote that and then he "had" to bring it up to me. I thought it was very unprofessional.

I have sat in a zillon Doc appointments, and have had more than my share of waiting rooms. Most of them no problem. Always bit my tongue on the others. Maybe I'm just getting tired of the ones that do this and think it is ok, because they are a Doctor. Even if the Doc's have an emergancy I think the staff should tell you. I don't think his time is more valuable then mine.

Am I wrong? How long will you wait before you say enough? What is acceptable?
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Old November 19th, 2005, 11:18 AM
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I agree with you......the staff was out of line & so was the doctor........we had a doctor that would schudle 3-4 patients for the same time......you always had to wait at least a hour if not 2......we no longer go to him......

I don't think you should have to wait more then 15 minutes......with Larry being in & out of the hospital so much in the last month & a half we've learned how to stick up for our rights.......you go right to the top......you'd be surprized how fast things are taken care of.


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Old November 19th, 2005, 01:01 PM
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I agree too. Most people fail to realize a doctor is a business. A self contained business who must make payroll, settle office disputes, pay mortgages, wrestle with insurance companies, pick up the kids after practice, mow the lawn, etc. etc.

Being the customer of the business, you have every right to expect your needs are met for the price you are paying.

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Old November 19th, 2005, 01:07 PM
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I went to a doctors office the other week to sort out a phone fault that they had.
Guess what? They made me wait!!
Twenty minutes later I was spitting tacks that I was there to help them and they had the nerve to make me wait.
What made it worse was that when I arrived, there was an older lady already waiting to see "any" doctor.
She queried the reception 4 times in twenty minutes and for 10 of those minutes she was cryng.
All the while practice staff were passing by with paper work under their arms looking very busy and basically ignoring her.
I cant say what her situation really was but still!!!!!!

I gave up and left my card on the reception desk without saying a word but left with an evil stare.
I went down to their other office to check on one other issue and I was back at the original office in 15 minutes.
Just as I arrived back my contact for the job had just picked up my card.
I had the problem sorted in less than 5 minutes.
Isn't my time just as valuable as anyone elses?
Thats 40 minutes to sort out a 5 minute problem.
Arrrgh!
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Old November 19th, 2005, 01:11 PM
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Good for you Tina. I hope this didn't upset your mother too much. It is terrible making these poor people wait for hours when they are sick themselves. Ellis and I learned a long time ago, its the squeaky wheel that gets taken care of, so if you have to squeak so be it!!
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Old November 19th, 2005, 01:13 PM
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I'm sorry for the overworked doctors out there, but I'm also sorry to tell you that I believe MY time is just as valuable as theirs!
The one good thing I can say about my mom's chemo treatments last year, was that they were almost always on time, the nurses were very attentive and caring, the doctor always showed up to check on things, and there was always coffee, juices or ginger ale available, along with a selection of home-baked goodies to snack on. The only time we had to wait was to see a lung specialist, who after a long wait, only proceeded to berate my mother for being a smoker, and refused to treat her because she was! We made a formal complaint about him!

donna
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Old November 19th, 2005, 01:23 PM
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Worst part about it is I don't think he will do anything to change. I think he thinks thats the price of doing business.

I'd leave and take her elsewhere but my Mom really likes him. Once we get in that is.

Wonder if there is anything else I can do. I was so P.O'd last night, I couldn't sleep.

Thanks for your input you guys, I was wondering what you all would think.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 01:51 PM
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Last time my dentist came into my restaurant I told him I thought it was about time he began bringing my money back to me! I told him he'd wait for his dinner as long as I wait in his reception area. He laughed and agreed.

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Old November 19th, 2005, 02:00 PM
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Tina, good for you. Doesn't sound like you acted inappropriate in any way to me. If nobody speaks up, nothing will ever change. At least now you have the hope that maybe something will happen. I have one doctor that is often late. The staff always lets me know how far behind she is, and give me the option of coming back later. I'm not happy about that, but at least it's better than just sitting there for 2 to 3 hours just waiting.

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Old November 19th, 2005, 02:56 PM
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Bravo for you speaking up to the arrogant fellow! I have only one suggestion which seems to help me in these situations. I ALWAYS ask for the first appointment of the day. Most of the time this helps because he hasn't yet started to be backed up. Of course I still wait sometimes when "Doctor is at the hospital" as the snippy receptionist says. But, most of the time being first in line gives me an edge.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 03:26 PM
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Stxer: THAT is a very good idea, and indeed the next month appointment is earlier. 10:15. However my Mom, like a lot of seniors who don't feel well, have a hard time moving early in the morning. Even 10:15 will be hard for her.

Thomas! I was hoping you would respond. With everything you'd been through lately I thought you'd understand. I value your opinion and was glad you didn't think I was being unreasonable. I like what you did to your dentist. (next time make him wait longer for me!)

The Doctor had said, nobody else seemed to mind. I began to think maybe this was the norm any more.

Tina
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Old November 19th, 2005, 10:18 PM
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My mother thought that doctors were God. Never question anything; that was that generation. She was in labor with me for 32 hours and always thought her doctor was wonderful. What doctor in his right mind would let a woman go thru that kind of agony. Yes, you can try to get an early appointment, but my husband did this with the eye doctor twice as first appt. of the day and twice walked out in disgust after two hours. The receptionist just shrugged and said he was often late getting in.

Betty
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Old November 19th, 2005, 10:35 PM
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Tbug, might I suggest you call your Better Business Bureau in regards to this doctor and the staff? It may not be the best thing to do, but it will get the office's looked at. This is just a thought of course. I don't know if it works the same as a standard business.

I had to wait for 2 hours at my last appointment, and I was the only one in the waiting room. Three doctors share the same office. I waited, patiently, only because One of the doctors had a patient in Labor.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 10:53 PM
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When I worked at a dentist office we would call if he was running behind. I wish mine would do that and that I had the nerve to say something like you did, Tina.
I have only one doctor who makes everyone wait up to two hours but my primary care doc says he is the best so I deal with it.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 08:41 AM
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My dentist asked me what the worst part of my visits to him was, and I replied it was waiting. I now meet him at 730AM on days I have an appointment and help him turn on the lights and equipment. I am the first in the chair, and it is great not to wait. Makes the dental visits less anxious.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 09:01 AM
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Karen, that was just my point. I never had the nerve to say anything before. This was the first time. I really respect Doctors. I also think that is what this guy and other Doctors bank on. That people think his is next best thing to God, so he thinks he can get away will it. I just grew tired of it. Plus he came in and towered over me, scolding me. I wasn't just going to sit there and take that.

I'm thinking maybe I'll write a letter to her primary Doctor and copy this guy. Telling her what happened, because she recommended him to us, ask her if she feels his pratice is acceptable.

What do you think of that idea?
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Old November 20th, 2005, 10:55 AM
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Hi Tina,
I think that is a great idea. If he gets the reputation for being inconsiderate, less doctors will refer patients and it will affect his business enough to incorporate change. It only sometimes takes a tiny pebble to create a landslide. Probably confronting the doctor and his front desk person didn't do anything but letting your primary know ,well, that just may start something. Actually, I have to restate that above statement about it not doing something. It actually made you feel better.
I like how you countered him when he explained his situation. Good for you ! I think I would have clammed up and became aloof.
To be honest, I think some doctors care more about what there peers think then the patient. I worked long enough for a dentist to see that.

On another note, I want to tell you how sorry I feel for you to be going through this with your mother. It is heartbreaking to see a parent in pain. I went through it with my Dad and getting him to a doctor was tough, very tough. It does take a long time to get them in the car.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 12:29 PM
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Thank you so much Karen for your warm words. Thankfully at this point we do not think we are dealing with cancer. But he is checking. She has something wrong with her bone marrow, that brought us to him in the first place. Hemotoligist I think you spell it? So most of his patients do have cancer. We are keeping our fingers crossed it turns out ok.

Thanks again.

See ya on the boards. Always enjoy your posts.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 03:06 PM
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Phew! That's good to read about your Mom that it is not cancer. I'll say a prayer for her. Thanks for the kind words too. I like to read your posts too and to see the happy ladybug.
I have to go right now and plant the computer desk Christmas present idea into DH's head.
Wishing you a great day!
Karen
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Old November 20th, 2005, 04:59 PM
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Tine, what might have been even better is agree with him and say you are sorry for being upset with his staff for making you wait. HE is the one that is responsible because he runs and is in charge of the place and HE is the one that needs to ensure that his patients are seen promptly unless a real emergency comes up in which case his staff needs to immediately take care of HIS patients that are being inconvienced. You might further inform him that based on his rates and the amount of time you spend with him he is being paid somewhere along the rate of $600-$1,000 plus an hour so maybe he needs to cut back and only try and see a max of four patients an hour instead of 10.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 05:04 PM
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Tbug, have you notified your primary insurance about this Doctor? Sometimes taht may help things as well.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 07:05 PM
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Hi Tbug and the rest of the posters,
I totally agree with all the posts, I don't mind a small wait, but the time you are talking about is unexceptable, we all have jobs, responsibilites too and for any person, doctor or not that thinks waiting like that is reasonable, they are wrong. The resceptionist should of let you know that there was a long wait as soon as you signed in and given you the oportunity to re-schedule, its just not right and IMO totally unexceptable to expect that from their patients. I think they tend to forget what we sometimes have to do, re-schedule, change work hours just to make an appointment that is going to be an hour or two later, thats not right.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 07:43 PM
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Tbug:

You did exactly what you should have done, in both instances, to the staff and with the doctor.

With today's medicine one thing to know is that in many instances and in fact the majority of them, the doctor is not in control of the office. They are an employee, a senior employee but nonetheless an employee, and are not in total control of their patient load or flow control of the office.

My friend, who is a physician, recently made a very hard decision and after 23 years is giving up practice and on December 22nd will be leaving her practice and will be going to work for a local company in the research area. It's the same company that Kuki's mom pace make is coming from.

The final straw was when she received a notice from corporation that handles the office she belongs to that her "face" time with patients was over the seven minute average for the month of August. It was nine minutes. She is an Internal Medicine specialist that deals primarily in geriatric medicine. Seven minutes is a ridiculous amount of time to give adequate care. She will no longer have a medical relationships with her patients, have the successes, the emotional highs the lows or gratifications but she will have greater financial security, no-malpractice insurance, regular hours and a new challenge. I give her two years before she's back in practice.

Take care,
Mike
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Old November 20th, 2005, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
With today's medicine one thing to know is that in many instances and in fact the majority of them, the doctor is not in control of the office.
Does that mean that there are less private practices? Interesting information Mike.

Karen
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Old November 21st, 2005, 07:50 AM
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Very interesting Mike, and Jim;

Mike I certainly feel for her. Sounds like a Doctor that cares. Just as my Mom's does. 7 minutes doesn't seem right or safe. I just feel there should be a happy medium. Maybe one day of extended hours till 8 pm. Maybe Saturday morning appointments. Or maybe it's time to say no new patients for awhile. Give the doctor the time they need and want. Just make the office run better where we are all happy.
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Old November 21st, 2005, 08:01 AM
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My dad went to see one of his doctors awhile back. After waiting in the waiting room for almost 2 hours, he told the receptionist he was leaving and would reschedule. She asked him "What about your co-pay?" My dad just turned and glared at her then laughed as we left. About 4 days later he got a bill in the mail for the co-pay. He works for Tufts Healthcare so he told them not to pay the bill if one was received. He had a new appointment two weeks later. He brought the bill they sent him with a note inside. The note stated that they owed him money. He figured his time waiting was worth $20.00 per hour (his pay at work), times 2 hours equals $40.00. The co-pay was $10.00, so the doctors office owed him $30.00. They receptionist almost hit the floor when she read the note. Let's just say, at this appointment and every appointment since, he is taken into an examination room within 15 minutes and is seen very quickly. Jus t love my dad.
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Old November 21st, 2005, 08:35 AM
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Morning ya'll! Yep, it's true, many docs do not own their private practices anymore. My daughter and son-in-law are docs and the stories they tell are so very enlightening and disheartening. The truth is that medicine is not run anymore by physicians, it's run by insurance companies. They tell you how long you can see a patient with a particular disease process. In order to bill for the longer appt. you have yo have a disease that merits that. Gone are the days of a doc spending time with you because HE thinks that is what's needed. They will not pay for certain tests or procedures if a certain criteria has not yet been met, etc. It is a sad, sad state of affairs.

But to the appt/wait situation, a previous poster is right that the first appt of the day is usually the most timely, although that can vary if the doc is a surgeon or does a lot of hospital work. The other pretty good one is the first slot after lunch. I finally told one of my doctors that I wanted the last appt of the day because at least I knew he would be trying to get OUT on time. This also gives me the satisfaction of keeping him there til I'M done with him. What goes around comes around.

I can take it when they make me wait. I'm young (52 is looking younger all the time!) and I can sit and read or do needlework all day long. I don't have children to pick up and I'm semi-retired, but it certainly is NOT okay when I take my 82 year old mother to the doctor. Fortunately, most of her docs are kind enough to call or advise you on check-in if they are running behind and give you the option of rescheduling.
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 04:14 AM
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Good for you, TBug! Two hours waiting is certainly NOT acceptable and doctors have to realize that....unless there is some true unforseen emergency (which I can appreciate!) this should not be SOP. They do have to learn how to schedule appoinments better, or often another doctor or PA if you wish....

ALSO, how many people know you do NOT have to sign those arbitration forms? Don't know if they do it elsewhere besides California, but it states that you will not SUE the doctor if there is a problem, it will be settled by arbitration only.

My opinion is, you don't hurt me, I won't hurt you. I've told other people they don't have to sign them, the doctor cannot refuse to see them, but they sign them anyway without thinking...

Sometimes the staff will tell me "Oh, you forgot to sign the arbitration form" and I just smile sweetly and say "No, I didn't"....

hee hee
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