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Old August 10th, 2006, 10:37 AM
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Default Military Dress Uniforms on Formal Night

On the Carnival board there is the latest in a long line of postings about formal night dress debate which of course draws out polarizing views

It dawn on me that alittle over a year ago when I took my son who is an aviator in the air force on a short cruise just before he was deployed overseas I understand clearly why all of our military branches have such sharp formal dress uniforms when he wore his on formal night :

"Babe Magnet"
"Free Drinks"

Next time you are on a cruise and you see a member of our armed forces in their dress uniform on formal night watch how other guest react around them and to them
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Old August 10th, 2006, 10:41 AM
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I saw a guy in his dress blues on formal night. He looked so handsome. He was very popular that night.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 10:47 AM
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Default Military Dress Uniforms on Formal Nights

All men look handsome in uniforms and tuxedos! Bad taste and bad fit are automatically done away with.

Judy
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Old August 10th, 2006, 10:48 AM
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Venice - take it one step further, go over to him/her look them squarely in the eye, shake their hand and say 'Thank-You.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 11:25 AM
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Amen, LisaK. Always my approach and always a heartwarming experience.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 12:30 PM
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You Ladies are right on target...many guest did make a point to come up and thank my son..many,many,many more ladies approach him when they saw his wings, but his wife held on to his arm closely (VBG)

There were several members of the army onboard who had just return from Iraq from being there over a year and were spending the weekend with their families, that people really went out of their way to say thank you and show their support of the troops..which was very different then from the late Vietnam war days..I give credit to the cruise lines for offering active military discounts so families can cruise together

In light of what happen today, our young people in uniform carry even a greater burden and are in harm's way
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Old August 10th, 2006, 01:11 PM
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venice,

It dawn on me that alittle over a year ago when I took my son who is an aviator in the air force on a short cruise just before he was deployed overseas I understand clearly why all of our military branches have such sharp formal dress uniforms when he wore his on formal night :

"Babe Magnet"
"Free Drinks"

Next time you are on a cruise and you see a member of our armed forces in their dress uniform on formal night watch how other guest react around them and to them


It is quite appropriate for members of armed forces who are on active duty to wear their uniforms for the "formal" evenings aboard ship. This topic seems to come up pretty often, and was the subject of a relatively recent thread on the "Cruise Dress and Packing" board. Nonetheless, I'll provide the basic information here to save digging.

In the United States, the uniform regulations of all services stipulate that the members are to wear the uniform that's equivalent to the attire prescribed for civilians for social functions of this type. The current uniform regulations of the respective services prescribe the following uniforms and substitutes. The Air Force regulations seem less clear than those of other services as to when various uniforms are worn, so I'm taking an educated guess as to the prescribed substitute.

>> U. S. Army: White Mess; substitutes (in order of precedence): Army White with Bow Tie, Army Blue with Bow Tie, Army Green with Bow Tie (enlisted only)

>> U. S. Navy and U. S. Coast Guard: Dinner Dress White Jacket; substitute: Dinner Dress White

>> U. S. Marine Corps: Officers -- Evening Dress B; substitute: Blue-White Dress A; Staff NCO's -- Evening Dress; NCO and below: Blue Dress A

>> U. S. Air Force: Mess Dress; apparent substitute: Semiformal Dress with Bow Tie

Uniform regulations in most other countries are similar.

Norm.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 07:58 PM
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This is a little bit of a deviation but hey, throw me overboard
On our Princess cruises there has always been a Veterans Gathering, usually on one of the sea days. My husband always looks forward to these. Last month there were two gentlemen who had survived the Bataan Death March. DH was late for supper because they all lost track of the time as these brave souls told their stories.

Wish all the cruise lines would do this. If they can devote time to friends of Bill and Dorothy, they can certainly find a corner for our heros to meet once per cruise. Maybe we could all make our thoughts known to the other lines.

Also, I've been through the Atlanta airport a good deal lately and each time I've travelled there has been a military member in the gate area (especially since I was travelling between Norfolk and Fort Polk). The airlines have always gotten on the PA and recognized the service member and thanked him for his service. People inevitably clap and stand. Quite touching.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 08:05 PM
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This is a little bit of a deviation but hey, throw me overboard
On our Princess cruises there has always been a Veterans Gathering, usually on one of the sea days. My husband always looks forward to these. Last month there were two gentlemen who had survived the Bataan Death March. DH was late for supper because they all lost track of the time as these brave souls told their stories.

Wish all the cruise lines would do this. If they can devote time to friends of Bill and Dorothy, they can certainly find a corner for our heros to meet once per cruise. Maybe we could all make our thoughts known to the other lines.

Also, I've been through the Atlanta airport a good deal lately and each time I've travelled there has been a military member in the gate area (especially since I was travelling between Norfolk and Fort Polk). The airlines have always gotten on the PA and recognized the service member and thanked him for his service. People inevitably clap and stand. Quite touching.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 08:06 PM
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Ms. Magnolia that's a great idea and maybe the powers to be at cruisemates might bring that to the cruise lines attention (that would be a great cruise theme)

My son once had the opportunity to attend a national convention for WW two Tuskegee Airmen. He was in awe of what their sacrifices were so that he could enjoy the opportunity to fly

I read somewhere that veterans from world war two are passing at a rate of over 100 a day (?) and we should honor them before they are all gone. In New Orleans we have the D-Day Museum which they have renamed the World War Two Museum to reflect all the services contribution to the war effort
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Old August 10th, 2006, 08:34 PM
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I traveled for work much in the past and now with new job, traveling even more. With both my father and brother being veterans, I always take a moment to thank those I see in uniform and more than once have purchased a meal for a military person when I see them in a restaruant. I call the manager over, tell them I want to pick up the tab, and for them not to disclose who did it. This is my way of thanking them for what they do for me (protect my freedoms) without making a big deal out of it. I stay to see the reactions, them looking around for who may have done it, but just hope they realize that they are very appreciated and to just accept a small token of our thankfullness for their courage.

Regardless of my views towards the war, I greatly appreciate those who have stepped up to the plate to protect us and those that have sacrificed so much more.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 09:15 PM
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My son (16) is in JROTC. This year instead of wearing a tux he has decided to wear his uniform because he is more comfortable in it. I must say he also looks very sharp in his uniform (he looks good in a tux too!)

As a retired military member I have worn my uniform in a formal setting many times. And I have seen a fair number on cruises.

I say if you are comfortable in your uniform, wear it and wear it with pride.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 02:24 AM
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And policemen. firemen and FBI guys wear their uniforms also. Don't forget the nurses and doctors and electricians and plumbers. Where does it stop? Thay all want to be heroes.... and get a handshake, free drinks and a chick or two also...

I want to shake the hand of the servicemen who doesn't wear his dress uniform everywhere. That's the common hero.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruise Cynic
And policemen. firemen and FBI guys wear their uniforms also. Don't forget the nurses and doctors and electricians and plumbers. Where does it stop? Thay all want to be heroes.... and get a handshake, free drinks and a chick or two also...

I want to shake the hand of the servicemen who doesn't wear his dress uniform everywhere. That's the common hero.
I must strenuously object to your post. To compare the military to plumbers and electricians is unfair and makes light of the sacrifices they all have made in both war and peace. I happen to be proud of the 21 years I spent in the US Air Force. I am looking forward to the day that I can fit back into my mess dress (getting pretty close) and wear it during a formal night. It is my right and I earned that right. For 21 years I went whereever I was told, whenever I was told to go. I went to great places and some places I never cared to know existed. I also resent the intimation that our only motivation to wear our uniforms is to get free drinks and score with the chicks.

God bless the service men and women around the world.

I remain quite proudly

Douglas M. Roberts, Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired)
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Old August 11th, 2006, 06:58 AM
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Doug..you may have misunderstood my original post !!! ..Master Sgt, I have the greatest amount of respect for your rank and committment..My son's father-in-law is also a retired master sgt. i the air force as is my son a graduated of USAFA

As you well know, fellow cruisers who want to show their thanks to our servicemen will often treat them to a cocktail without the servicemen ever knowing..every once in awhile when I go out for breakfast on sunday morning and notice an elderly person get out of a car with p.o.w. plates, I ask the waiter to put his coffee on my check.

Women love a man in uniform..it's something about the air force blue !!! My post was a compliment to the service and to my son
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Old August 11th, 2006, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
Doug..you may have misunderstood my original post !!! ..Master Sgt, I have the greatest amount of respect for your rank and committment..My son's father-in-law is also a retired master sgt. i the air force as is my son a graduated of USAFA

As you well know, fellow cruisers who want to show their thanks to our servicemen will often treat them to a cocktail without the servicemen ever knowing..every once in awhile when I go out for breakfast on sunday morning and notice an elderly person get out of a car with p.o.w. plates, I ask the waiter to put his coffee on my check.

Women love a man in uniform..it's something about the air force blue !!! My post was a compliment to the service and to my son
Venice- My ire was directed at Cynic's rather insulting post, not you. I have no problem with what you said. Cynic intimated that scoring with the chicks and trolling for free drinks was our only motivation for wearing the uniform.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 07:16 AM
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Doug..thanks, that's what I thought, but I wanted to be sure...I was not going to take cruise cynic's "bait"
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Old August 11th, 2006, 07:27 AM
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Doug R> I coudn't help but notice you drew the line at "plumbers and electricians", and not "policemen and fireman". Where IS this line drawn anyways?

I do not "make light" of servicemen by any means. My father served in WWII. He did, however, not EVER feel the need to exhibit his service to the world. I am proud of him, and his reluctance to be a hero. He never felt he should be called a hero, he killed too many people for that, kept his demons to himself, and took them to his grave. I respect that. And MY comments would echo HIS comments, were he alive today. He had some very choice, non-repeatable words for those that wore their dress unis for anything other than Rememberance Day, Military funerals, and parades. In fact, I never saw him wear it. His bullet scars, however, he showed to me every time I disrespected him as a mouthy teenager.

Venice> I'm glad you think I'm baiting you. Of course, there is only one side to this issue, after all.....

One final point: This would be all well and good, but last election IT MADE ME SICK how one candidate (a decorated serviceman worthy of the utmost respect) was utterly trashed by the opposing party. They spat (figuratively) on the uniform, and the sickest part of all was, America bought it. Not wanting this to get political, I still have to say that I lost a lot of respect for the USA on that day, not because of who won, but how it was done. If "that guy" can trash the uniform with impunity, then I can question "where to draw the line", so to speak.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:30 AM
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well to honor the "rules of the road" for this board we stay away from politics, race and sex (cruise cynic you manage to hit on all three (smile)

I am a huge fan of the history channel and also seeking out opportunities to speak with people who have lived thru the period when history was made. I often wonder how the history channel will in the future portray the times we are going thru now

Cruise Cynic, I understand when you speak of your father..Mine was the same way (he served in the segregated army during world world two in the pacific) and he never spoke about fighting" two enemies"..I only found out thru his old army buddies at his funeral about what they had to endure

To close on a cruising note (and I always try to do that)..the absolute greatest dinner conversation I have ever had was when I was on a cruise in Greece during the late 80's...One set of dinner companions were this couple in the 80's that never spoke a word the entire week..we thought they were just not social..the last night we shared a bottle of wine and they shared that they were raised in Germany during Hitler's reign, one was Jewish and the other Catholic and they had to flee to South African in the late 30's...they spoke about what it was like to be teenagers in love
during that period and then what it was like to live under apartheid in South Africa and live long enough to see Mandela free ...if it were not for cruising, I would have never been exposed to them
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:53 AM
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And to further lighten this thread a bit. . .
My husband started off as Air Force (although he wound up multi-service)
and those AF blues are reeeally handsome - my SIL is Navy and you just gotta' love those officer's whites!
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Old August 11th, 2006, 11:06 AM
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Why Ms Magnolia... I do declare :now which set of Navy Officers "Whites With Wings" did you like better (VBG)

Richard Gere in "An Officer And A Gentleman"
or
Tom Cruise in "Top Gun"

I'm an Air Force Blue kind of guy (for obvious reasons), but if I were to peek at a Navy dress white it would be

Demi Moore in "A Few Good Men"....(and one great looking woman in Navy whites ) (VBG)
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Old August 11th, 2006, 12:00 PM
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Thanks Doug...I am honored to get to know you on this Board. My nephew Sgt. Jonathan Hartman was killed in Diwaniyah, Iraq on April 17th, 2004...you can google his name and read about him...he was my sister's only son...sorry to go on and on!

But I truly admire and respect you even though we have never met. You have a lot to be proud of and so do we!

God Bless You and I so appreciate what you've done for us,


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Old August 11th, 2006, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruise Cynic
And policemen. firemen and FBI guys wear their uniforms also. Don't forget the nurses and doctors and electricians and plumbers. Where does it stop? Thay all want to be heroes.... and get a handshake, free drinks and a chick or two also...
I don't think the FBI really has any kind of dress uniform do they? Don't they all just wear suits?

After 16 years of proud service in the Fire Service, I wear my dress uniform on the formal night of our cruises. I don't do it for drinks, chicks or recognition from anyone. I believe I have earned the right to wear it proudly and my wife really looks forward to the formal night and my wearing of the FD dress uniform. I have never been given a free drink or anything, nor would I ask for one from anyone.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 05:35 PM
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Everyone has an opinion, so here is mine. If a person has a dress uniform, they should be able to wear it when the occasion calls for it. This includes formal nights on cruises. Whether the uniform is military, fire, police, whatever, these individuals have made a decision to associate themselves with some form of service or vocation that we all have come to rely upon and need, and they should be commended. These uniforms represent who they are. Bravo!
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Old August 11th, 2006, 06:54 PM
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Cruise Cynic,

I coudn't help but notice you drew the line at "plumbers and electricians", and not "policemen and fireman". Where IS this line drawn anyways?

The line is drawn between those who put their lives on the line to defend the rest of us when they report for duty (note that I did not say "work"...) and those who do not.

I want to shake the hand of the servicemen who doesn't wear his dress uniform everywhere.

Members of any country's armed forces on active duty are legitimately entitled, and sometimes required, to wear their uniforms even when they leave their units on leave or liberty. As a former naval officer, I am among those who like to see servicemen wearing their uniforms in public with pride. In view of the present global situation, however, the U. S. armed forces have directed servicemen NOT to wear uniforms ashore in foreign countries to avoid becoming targets of terrorist attacks. This would include going ashore during ports of call.

The present discussion, however, pertains to wearing the proper dress uniforms on formal evenings during a cruise. Many members of the armed forces do not own civilian formalwear. It's quite reasonable for them to wear their uniforms rather than spending their modest pay on rentals of tuxedos or civilian dinner jackets.

Norm.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 08:31 PM
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Anyone who thinks service members wear their service dress uniform (or any uniform for that matter) trying to get free stuff or pickup chicks is sadly mistaken (there may be a few exceptions but that applies to anything).

As has been said, service members may not have formal wear, sometimes are requried to wear their unform, etc.

Finally, it's about time people thank service members for their sacrifice and service. There was a time not to long aog when the military and those who served were spat upon and treated like dirt.

It doesn't matter what your personal or political view is, regardless service members serve to protect our country, our rights and our freedoms.

I too served and retired and never once did I do it for the "free stuff". I am proud of my service, I salute those who have served as well as those who still serve.

As for other service professions (like police and fire) they too can wear their service uniforms and I also thank them for their service in the same vain as military members.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 08:38 PM
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Today was the first time I have read this thread, except what Venice wrote the first day.

I see that it turned a bit nasty, which is what happens a lot these days. Maybe that is one reason I have not read it until now.

This is a difficult time for us, due to the fact that we are so close to a deployment, but I would like to tell you(with keeping with the cruise theme) what happened to us this last cruise.

Todd our cruise director said to a full theater that he was amazed at all the returning soldiers and those leaving. He asked those who were involved to please stand. You would not believe how many there were. He then asked for those teachers, fireman, police etc. who were also in the audience. He said that all professions were important, because while the soldiers were away, the others watched over there families.

Now as far as wearing a uniform on the cruise. My hubby has never worn his, and I don't think he ever will. I want to explain, but it is important that you keep an open mind.

We cruise to get away from it all. That is why we started cruising in the first place. It is a chance for all of us to be just a normal family. As Doug can agree, it is a life that is part of you 24/7 There is no getting away, except for cruising for 7 short days.

My hubby is my hero no matter what he has or doesn't have on. He is surrounded by many heroes. I still, after all these years get a flutter when I see a uniform.

I don't think CC meant any harm. He just doesn't understand the feeling we have. For the record, most military hate the politics part. What these guys do for their country has little to do with politics. Doug, remember what it was like when a new commander loved politics more than they loved the troops. Yuk, what a mess that always was. I sometimes wish my hubby was a plumber, they sure make a lot more. But, the support that is received is very important. It is important that all who see a soldier, no matter the rank or service, show that you care.

Right now I can hear my hubby fussing about the bad call on the Falcons game. A month from now, I will wish I could hear it.

So, say your prayers, keep good thoughts, and continue to support.

Sincerely,

Luanne Russo military wife
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Old August 11th, 2006, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by merryheart
Thanks Doug...I am honored to get to know you on this Board. My nephew Sgt. Jonathan Hartman was killed in Diwaniyah, Iraq on April 17th, 2004...you can google his name and read about him...he was my sister's only son...sorry to go on and on!

But I truly admire and respect you even though we have never met. You have a lot to be proud of and so do we!

God Bless You and I so appreciate what you've done for us,
Thank you Merry . While my career was hardly one that inspires heroic tales of bravery, I did manage to get shot at once during the invasion of Panama (the sniper was a real bad shot) and a platoon of Marines dispatched him and a couple of his friends with a couple of rocket propelled grenades.

My condolences at the loss of your nephew. You can be proud of him and his sacrifice.
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:22 PM
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I was going to say : "In defense of Cruise Cynic", but, I had second thought because old CC is more than capable of defending himself.

Having said that and since I'm probably one of the oldest on this board, I've travelled in every province in Canada, more than half of the US states, I would like to add my 2 cents worth.

There are many similarities in both countries but, there are still some cultural differences. The US demonstrate much more visual patriotism than we do. I think we are every much as patriotic, we just don`t demonstrate it as much. Once, out of service, Canadians just want to forget their military experiences and be on their way. I'm not saying one is better or the other is worse, it's just how it is.

In Canada, military people wear military garments when on duty, funerals, and in parades. On occasion, a military person will wear his uniform when getting married and that`s about it.

I hope this is not interpreted as being political. It's just an observance of mine.

Bill
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Old August 11th, 2006, 09:34 PM
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I with to thank all those who have posted on this thread. Everyone has their reasons as to why they feel the way they do. To each one of you, thank you for sharing and my thanks go to the family members you have mentioned. No one is wrong here. Luanne, I don't have any family members in active duty at this time, but I have a very long list of veterans in my family. My heart goes out to you and thoughts go with your husband.
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