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Old August 17th, 2006, 11:35 AM
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Default Thoughts on the JonBenet Ramsey case

Yes it is old news by now but I thought someone would of posted that a suspect was arrested, but here is the latest.

BANGKOK, Thailand - The suspect in the slaying of JonBenet Ramsey said he loved the 6-year-old beauty queen “very much? and is “very sorry for what happened.?

In an interview with The Associated Press, John Mark Karr said that he contacted JonBenet’s mother, Patsy, before she died of cancer in June to express his remorse for the killing.

“I conveyed to her many things, among them that I am so very sorry for what happened to JonBenet,? Karr said as U.S. and Thai authorities escorted him from his Bangkok hotel, where he spent over an hour packing his belongings.

Karr said it was his understanding that Patsy Ramsey read letters that he sent to her. He said JonBenet’s death was “an accident.?

“It’s very important for me that everyone knows that I love her very much and that her death was unintentional,? said Karr, who sweated and stuttered occasionally as he spoke in a quiet voice.

‘Painful for me to talk about’
Karr, 41, was arrested Wednesday, halfway around the world from Boulder, Colo., where JonBenet’s body was found beaten and strangled in her parent’s basement on Dec. 26, 1996.

He declined to disclose the nature of his supposed relationship to the Ramsey family, or how he may have known JonBenet. An attorney for the Ramsey family said Wednesday that Karr once lived near the family in Conyers, Ga.

Asked for details of how JonBenet died, Karr replied: “It would take several hours to describe — to describe that.?

“There’s no way I could be brief about it. It’s a very involved series of events,? said Karr, who speaks with a thick Southern accent. “It’s very painful for me to talk about.?

Earlier in the day, Karr spoke briefly to reporters after a news conference by American and Thai authorities.

“I was with JonBenet when she died,? he told reporters. Asked if he was innocent, he said: “No.?

Scheduled for extradition
Karr will be taken within the week to Colorado, where he will face charges of first-degree murder, kidnapping and child sexual assault, said Ann Hurst of the Department of Homeland Security, one of several officials who accompanied the suspect back to his hotel.

In the run-up to Karr’s arrest, U.S. authorities had rented rooms at The Blooms, the budget hotel where Karr was staying in a central Bangkok neighborhood of massage parlors and travel agencies catering to expatriates and sex tourists.

The hotel offers rooms for as little as three hours. Karr was staying in a small single room on the top floor of the nine-story hotel .

U.S. and Thai authorities wearing plastic gloves sorted through his possessions, which were wheeled away on a luggage rack, and included a laptop computer and two suitcases.

Dressed in a baggy turquoise polo shirt and khaki pants, Karr said that JonBenet’s death was “not what it seems to be,? though he declined to elaborate.

Suspect says kidnapping went awry
Karr confessed to the killing after his arrest Wednesday at his downtown Bangkok guesthouse by Thai and American authorities, said Lt. Gen. Suwat Tumrongsiskul, head of Thailand’s immigration police.

Suwat quoted Karr as saying he tried to kidnap JonBenet for a $118,000 ransom but that his plan went awry and he strangled her. Patsy Ramsey reported finding a ransom note in the house demanding $118,000 for her daughter.

“He said it was second-degree murder. He said it was unintentional,? Suwat said. He said Karr told Thai interrogators that he picked JonBenet up at her school and brought her to the family’s basement.

Wednesday’s arrest was a surprise development in one of America’s most lurid murder cases, which had left a cloud of suspicion over her family after years went by with no arrests. Some feared the case would never be solved.

Striking video images of the blonde-haired girl in child beauty pageants helped propel the case into one of the highest-profile mysteries in the United States.

Colorado professor tipped off police
A law enforcement source, speaking on condition of anonymity, told the AP that Karr had been communicating periodically with somebody in Boulder who had been following the case and cooperating with law enforcement officials.

A University of Colorado spokesman, Barrie Hartman, said journalism professor Michael Tracey communicated with Karr over several months and contacted police. The university spokesman said he didn’t know what prompted Tracey to become suspicious of Karr.

Tracey produced a documentary in 2004 called “Who Killed JonBenet?? A woman who answered the phone at a number under his name said he didn’t live there anymore; his office phone mailbox was full.

DNA was found beneath JonBenet’s fingernails and inside her underwear, but Lin Wood, the family’s longtime attorney, said two years ago that detectives were unable to match it to anyone in an FBI database.

The Ramseys learned that police were investigating Karr at least a month before the Patsy Ramsey's death, the family said. In a statement Wednesday, father John Ramsey said that if his wife had lived to see Karr’s arrest, she “would no doubt have been as pleased as I am with today’s development almost 10 years after our daughter’s murder.?
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Old August 17th, 2006, 11:36 AM
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I hope he gets what he deserves. I feel verry sorry for the family and all the accusations they have had to deal with.
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Old August 17th, 2006, 11:42 AM
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I was about to post as well. Poor Patsy. The good news is she is now holding her baby, once again.

Luanne
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Old August 17th, 2006, 09:13 PM
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I saw the interview on CNN they had with this character. Many parts of the puzzle just don't seem to fit. Just too many conflicting stories.

I hope that they caught the guilty one and they can lay the case to rest however, I don't think it will be that simple. I have a feeling there is a big story behind the story.

Bill
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Old August 17th, 2006, 09:16 PM
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Does anyone remember when Lee Harvey Oswald was prated like that on TV. Look at this guy and his mannerisms, and see if it doesn't remind you of Oswald.

Luanne
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Old August 17th, 2006, 11:59 PM
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Default Thoughts on the Ramsey case

Sure hope there is a dna match on this creep. They said he was a second grade school teacher and had left the country five years ago. The more I hear, though, there are a lot of holes in his story. Luanne, you hit the nail on the head, he does remind me of Oswald.

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Old August 18th, 2006, 12:51 AM
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This guy is a nutcase looking for 15 mins of fame. Yes he is probably a perv but did he kill JonBenet? He looked drugged and disorientated on CNN and didn't seem to know where he was or what was happening.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 07:23 AM
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Luanne:

Our local newspaper carried a photo of this character this morning. You are very observant, there is quite a resemblance. Scary!!!

Who knows, history has been known to repeats itself.

Bill
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Old August 18th, 2006, 09:32 AM
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Some people in here have just showed their age, Lee Harvey who I think we studied about him in acient history

No really one theory that came up is he wanted to escape from a ty jail. I guess if I was up there maybe I would confess to
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Old August 18th, 2006, 09:38 AM
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I was maybe 10 when I saw the Lee Harvey thing live, but since I love history, and live in Texas, I have seen pictures and news clips of him many times.

I think it was a little more than just wanting to escape. I was really interested in the fact that Patsy had heard from him before she died.

Whatever they do, I hope it is by the book, and they get the real killer this time.

Luanne
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Old August 18th, 2006, 09:46 AM
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I think he is a wannabe.
Even the law enforcement officials are taking a "wait and see" attitude.
The guy apparently was obsessed with JonBenet and has been for 10 years. I think it's his way of linking himself to her history ...

He does remind me [and I've heard others say it too] of Oswald.
His head seems strangely disproportional to his body!

It annoys me how much he is posing for photographers and how willing he is to speak to reporters. Even eager for the attention.

I would be thrilled if there is a DNA match showing he was with JonBenet, but I'm doubting it will happen.

Even his ex-wife [one of them] says he was with her on the day JonBenet was killed. I heard she is searching for family photos to prove that.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 09:47 AM
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Sorry ... double post ... slow board!
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Old August 18th, 2006, 11:38 AM
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I have no idea whether this guy killed the girl, but somehow I still believe in the presumption of innocence. And, for sure, I don't believe in guilt by physical resemblance to a known killer.

There are two very unfortunate aspects to the current situation:

1) We've again had to look at those repulsive, decade-old tapes of the girl prancing across stages dressed up like a pre-pubescent tart. If the parents were guilty of nothing else, they should have been convicted on multiple counts of poor judgment in allowing/encouraging/enabling that sort of sickening display. A rudimentary analysis by any sensible adult should lead to the conclusion that these moppet beauty pageants must be a very attractive stalking ground for gentlemen of a certain persuasion. And it tends to rob a kid of her childhood. If she'd just been left alone to be a six-year-old, the odds are good that she'd be a normal teenager today and that we'd never have heard of her.

2) Unless you read a credible newspaper, and especially if you only watch cable news, you would think that this is the only story in the world that matters. In fact, Iraq is still something of an issue, as are Lebanon, oil prices, Congress (or lack of it), the economy, Korea and a number of other things that impact our lives significantly. But for the next week at least, it's going to be "all extradition, all the time" unless we can cook up another war to knock it out of first place.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 11:49 AM
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Wooooo Slow down AR I didn't mean that he must be guilty because he looked like Lee Harvey, I said look how much he looks like him.

Beauty pageants have been going on for years. The heavy make up and clothes are part of the process. I don't think it is fair to say that this might not have happened if she had not been a pageant winner. That is very close to those who say that a short skirt on a woman causes rape.
Let's wait until we hear more of the evidence to make decisions about this man.

As far as news goes. These days everything has to be "Breaking News" It is a sign of the times. We either have to deal with it, or turn it off.

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Old August 18th, 2006, 01:16 PM
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Can anyone explain why the Department of Homeland Security had someone in Thailand dealing with this? I don't understand, in any way, why they would be involved. I also think it's interesting that the Boulder DA is asking everyone to avoid rushing to judgment and hinting that things aren't as they seem. Also, as of this a.m., he hadn't even been charged with anything regarding the Ramsey case. It's all very odd to me....
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Old August 18th, 2006, 04:39 PM
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As for a "presumption of innocence," the man reportedly confessed.

And as for the other things going on in this world, Iraq, oil prices, domestic spying, etc. etc. -- yeah, I find it very interesting that this alleged "breaking news" is coming right now.

I bet a lot of people missed the ruling on the NSA's wiretapping ...
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Old August 18th, 2006, 06:38 PM
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Fruitcake--

Yeah, instead of "Breaking News" I always refer to it as "Breaking Speculation."

According to this evening's reasonably credible news (it's all relative, after all), the guy's confession is being questioned seriously as possibly being false. Why anybody would confess to a murder he didn't commit is beyond my understanding, but apparently it wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

And, I'm no lawyer (lucky me), but as I understand it we're all innocent until proven guilty, and "guilty" means a verdict by a judge or a jury. A confession is not the same as a conviction.

Luanne--

You say that "heavy makeup and clothes are part of the process" of kiddie beauty pageants. Yup, that's my point. The fact that it happens doesn't make it a smart thing for parents to allow their kids to do.

I don't believe your analogy about short skirts and rape is apt. If a potential rapist walks down the street he might or might not find somebody in a short skirt. It's a random thing, and probably not particularly dispositive. In any event, the woman in the short skirt is living her real life that way, and is not engaged in a form of play-acting.

On the other hand, a beauty pageant promises an assortment of these dolled-up fantasy kids all at the same place at the same time, where an audience is not only permitted, but solicited. You do the math.

A closer analogy (although still not quite on the mark) for your hypothetical rapist would be a dance club in mid-Manhattan, where I'm sure the performers are far more likely to receive unwelcome advances than women not involved in such an occupation. Hopefully, they're better equipped to handle these situations than little kids are.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 06:53 PM
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Hopefully her killer will be caught soon, and her family can try to move on in life. Who ever this is, needs to be off the streets, so that other innocent children are not hurt.

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Old August 18th, 2006, 08:15 PM
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Default Thoughts on the Jon Benet Ramsey Case

This guy, whether he did it or not, is really a dangerous nut case and shouldn't be on the streets anywhere. If he did kill this little girl, he should be punished, but to just nail a pathetic creep to use as a scapegoat is wrong. That allows the real killer to go free.

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Old August 18th, 2006, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AR
And, I'm no lawyer (lucky me), but as I understand it we're all innocent until proven guilty, and "guilty" means a verdict by a judge or a jury. A confession is not the same as a conviction.
Well, my husband is a lawyer, and he tells me that is someone confesses to a crime, then he/she can plead guilty and is sentenced.
There is no verdict by a judge or jury.

As this case unravels we are seeing a lot of changes to what the guy allegedly told the Thai authorities, etc.
It gets curiouser and curiouser.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 10:25 PM
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Well, fruitcake, it looks like both your husband and I am correct. You quote me as saying that guilty means a verdict by a judge or jury. Your husband says that if someone confesses to a crime, then he/she can plead guilty and is sentenced.

There's no conflict there. Your husband will tell you that a confession is not a conviction, although it may lead to one and often does. But after the confession--especially a murder confession--one of your husband's brethren will be hired or appointed to represent the accused, and may well be counsel him to plead not guilty even though there was a confession. They may argue that the confession was coerced, or any of a zillion other legal points. And, as may well be the case here, there's always the "not guilty by reason of insanity" possibility.

My point is a simple one: a confession alone cannot remove the presumption of innocence. Only a verdict by a judge or jury can do that. When a judge accepts a gulity plea, that is effectively the same thing as a guilty verdict at a bench (judge) trial. Ask your lawyer husband whether he agrees or disagrees with that simple statement.

You seem to have had a bad day.
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Old August 18th, 2006, 10:47 PM
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It seems he was hired by a school in Thailand and some astute faculty member noticed his behavior toward young students and he was arrested after 10 days on the job. He was married first to a 13 year old who fled after a year fearing for her life. He then married a 16 old and they had children. He was supposedly out of the U.S. for the last five years.

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Old August 18th, 2006, 11:58 PM
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The Ramsey family has had a summer home in Charlevoix, Michigan, about 15 miles from here for many years. JonBenet was "Little Miss Charlevoix" some years ago. Therefore, the local newspapers and t.v. news have been all over this story.

John and Patsy Ramsey dined in the restaurant at the golf club I manage and were very gracious and with a group of great people. The last time I saw them was about 4 years ago - long after JonBenet's death and before Patsy became so very ill.

Tonight's paper headlines state that "Charlevoix is healing" with the arrest of Mr. Carr in Thailand and that small resort community is feeling that some "closure" (I HATE that term!) has taken place.

I'm not so sure they should be rejoicing so soon. John and Patsy Ramsey seem to have been very well liked and involved in their community up here and many people never doubted their innocence in this terrible crime. It is a terrible shame for all involved that Patsy Ramsey went to her grave without the truth being known.

John Carr COULD be guilty, John Carr COULD be looking for his 15 minutes, or John Carr COULD be trying to beat a Thai charge on something else. We will never know until ALL the facts are in, studied by the professional people who have those facts, and a jury that knows much more than we know now lets the story unfold and, hopefully, end.
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Old August 21st, 2006, 09:03 AM
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Jon Stewart did a really good job the other night pointing out that, with all of the other things going on in the world, the media fixates on stories like this (Natalie Holloway also). The mainstream media's obsession with these stories is obscene. They spend 24 hrs a day speculating. Hundreds of people are murdered in this country every day and they ignore those cases. A good friend of mine was kidnapped, stabbed and dumped along side of a road several years ago and the cops spent a few months investigating and told the family that, unless someone is arrested for another crime and wants to *deal*, this case will never be solved. I guess my friend didn't fit Nancy Grace's criteria
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