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-   -   British Hostages (http://www.cruisemates.com/forum/chit-chat-cruisers/330877-british-hostages.html)

mehawk March 30th, 2007 05:29 PM

British Hostages
 
You know, I remembered today, when the current president (and I use that term loosely here) was "elected" to serve in Iran, many Americans swore that he was one of the kidnappers of the group taken under Mr. Carter's watch. Governments, including our own, bent over backwards to try to prove that he wasn't there afterall. NOW!!!! These fine and brave sailors and marines are bing held hostage by Iran and who is the president??? Yes, go to the head of the class my friend. The same one who was alleged to have been on the other hostage taking. Our Allies and our leadership have got to open their eyes to what is going on in that region and take charge.

Arf, arf. :x

DavidBgood March 30th, 2007 05:42 PM

Mike, tempers and feeling are running VERY high here in my country right now on this subject.

They are pushing too far, but I will curtail my real thoughts as I have their lives to take into account

mehawk March 30th, 2007 05:51 PM

David, I agree. I shall ask, please send me a PM and tell me about the mood in your country please. I'll share the mood over here with you.

Luanne Russo March 30th, 2007 07:26 PM

I know prayers have been said for these fine men and woman. Hopefully it won't take 444 days to get them home.

Aidan March 30th, 2007 08:45 PM

Re: British Hostages
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mehawk
You know, I remembered today, when the current president (and I use that term loosely here) was "elected" to serve in Iran, many Americans swore that he was one of the kidnappers of the group taken under Mr. Carter's watch. Governments, including our own, bent over backwards to try to prove that he wasn't there afterall. NOW!!!! These fine and brave sailors and marines are bing held hostage by Iran and who is the president??? Yes, go to the head of the class my friend. The same one who was alleged to have been on the other hostage taking. Our Allies and our leadership have got to open their eyes to what is going on in that region and take charge.

Arf, arf. :x

No knowledgeable person believes Ahmadinejad was one of the kidnappers in the 70s. That's a myth propagated by the right-wing blogosphere conspiracy nuts.

There's really not a whole lot our leadership can do to "take charge" in the region. We are bogged down in the Iraq Civil War right now, you know -- well on its way to becoming the longest war in American history!

I wonder how history will record Mr. Bush's and Mr. Blair's watch?

Cheers, Aidan

AR March 30th, 2007 10:26 PM

Pretty unlikely that Ahmadinejad was the specific culprit way back then. But what's the difference? Hostage-taking is not some secret technique that's only known to those who've done it before. It's obviously a standard part of the Iranian playbook, and I personally think we're in for a long haul on this one. It's a paranoid regime, and the taking of the hostages was obviously a calculated move.

For our part, obviously we don't have enough troops or enough standing in the region or in the world to exert very much direct physical or moral influence. Have you noticed that the US government's silence is deafening on this issue?

I know that--governments and politics aside--our hearts are all with our Brit cousins and that we look forward to the hostages' safe return.

mehawk March 30th, 2007 10:47 PM

Aidan, I stated that he was reported to be one of the hostage takers, NOT that he actually was. I would have NOT lowered my emotions to begin the "name calling" of what the different sides of the political aisles are and I won't here. :x Even though I suuurrre want to but I am above that! :wink:

It is quite obvious which side of the aisle you are on my friend. :)

mehawk March 30th, 2007 10:49 PM

Pardon my outbursts friends, as this is close to my heart. My SIL in over there.

linuxpm March 30th, 2007 10:52 PM

Good excuse to go take out their reactor.

Brian

Luanne Russo March 30th, 2007 10:59 PM

One of the original hostages from the Carter time, was on the news the other day. He said that that man was indeed on of the interrogators. This is not new news, it is old news.

As far as debating the war. I have two days before my man gets home. The only info I have is from him. That is the true information. Adian when did you get back?

Luanne

Aidan March 31st, 2007 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mehawk
I would have NOT lowered my emotions to begin the "name calling" . . . . Even though I suuurrre want to but I am above that! :wink:

Why would you "want" to name call?

I have never felt the urge.

Cheers, Aidan

Aidan March 31st, 2007 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo
One of the original hostages from the Carter time, was on the news the other day. He said that that man was indeed on of the interrogators. This is not new news, it is old news.

As far as debating the war. I have two days before my man gets home. The only info I have is from him. That is the true information. Adian when did you get back?

Luanne

That fellow is mistaken. Ahmadinejad was not one of the interrogators.

Not quite following your second paragraph. Does not having been to Iraq in the current conflict have anything to do with debating the war?

Just wondering, Aidan

mehawk March 31st, 2007 12:54 AM

Aidan said: "That's a myth propagated by the right-wing blogosphere conspiracy nuts."

What, my friend, do you call the last five words of that sentence?

Aidan March 31st, 2007 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mehawk
Aidan said: "That's a myth propagated by the right-wing blogosphere conspiracy nuts."

What, my friend, do you call the last five words of that sentence?

They are the Rosie's of the right. There are crazies on both sides who just make stuff up. Calling them nutty is an accurate description.

That is different from saying someone who supports the war is a ---- or somebody against the war is a ----.

Do you agree?

Cheers, Aidan

mteague March 31st, 2007 01:33 AM

Anytime our people are over their laying their lives on the line....I get a LOT patriotic! I support our military and the military presence of those countries "who have our back", because not too many ever step up to the plate.

I may not be a big presidential decision maker, or top military brass. I may or may not agree with decisions being made regarding the entire war. However, I WILL support the men and women who are fighting for democracy, freedom, the American Way and ultimately, everyone's right to disagree with whomever or whatever they so choose.

Luanne's husband is coming home. Anyone who has had a family member over there (ours returned right after Katrina) can tell you there are a lot of things happening that are never reported, for whatever reason. Luanne is getting the facts from her husband, who obviously is telling her the truth.

Argue all you want about the right or wrong of the war, just support the people who are doing the dirty work!

Melody

Cruise Cynic March 31st, 2007 02:35 AM

They take hostages because it causes us to worry and fret. We value life and liberty. Tit for tat doesn't work, because they know a stadium full of THEIR citizens isn't worth a spit to their Govt.

heck, they'll probably get enough volunteers to fill the place before it goes kablooie, due to the 77 virgins in heaven thing.

Luanne Russo March 31st, 2007 02:38 AM

That fellow as you call him was there. He would know who was who, I would think.

My comment was about the fact that unless you have been deployed then your info most likely comes from the news. using the news as a source, is probably not the best source.

Aidan March 31st, 2007 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo
That fellow as you call him was there. He would know who was who, I would think.

As I said, he is mistaken. There are people who claim they were with Elvis and space aliens too. People are mistaken for many reasons, no matter how sincere they are. That does not mean they are bad, just mistaken.

Quote:

My comment was about the fact that unless you have been deployed then your info most likely comes from the news. using the news as a source, is probably not the best source.
My opionion comes only from my eyes, brain, and heart, not from the news! :)

Cheers, Aidan

Luanne Russo March 31st, 2007 02:58 AM

So you have been to the Middle East to see, and feel what is going on.

So did you have trouble with your TA50? What about the food, was it good, or just so so.

Aidan March 31st, 2007 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo
So you have been to the Middle East to see, and feel what is going on.

So did you have trouble with your TA50? What about the food, was it good, or just so so.

I'm not sure if you're arguing to bring our men home or keep them fighting the Iraq Civil War.

All I know is, there is no longer a military objective there.

Cheers, Aidan

Luanne Russo March 31st, 2007 03:28 AM

So now you are a commander!! Aidan, My point is that unless you have clear knowledge of what is going on, it is difficult to debate.

Yes, I would love to see them all come home. But, if they do, then the bad guys will come with them. This war is so much more than the Iraq people, and it's country. It is being in the middle of a huge terror organization. We keep them busy there, then they are less likely to show up in yours or my back yard.

As for your reference seeing Elvis and space people. How old were you in the late 70's? Do you know that these captives were held for 444 days.
I hope that you are never interrogated for anything, but if you were, do you not think that you would remember their faces. There was another man on TV tonight who was also held. They asked him the same thing, and he said that yes this man was one of the one's who tried to get answers from them.

Sweetie, I'll bet you are a very nice person, and you mean well, but the facts speak for themselves.

Aidan March 31st, 2007 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luanne Russo
So now you are a commander!! Aidan, My point is that unless you have clear knowledge of what is going on, it is difficult to debate.

Yes, I would love to see them all come home. But, if they do, then the bad guys will come with them. This war is so much more than the Iraq people, and it's country. It is being in the middle of a huge terror organization. We keep them busy there, then they are less likely to show up in yours or my back yard.

As for your reference seeing Elvis and space people. How old were you in the late 70's? Do you know that these captives were held for 444 days.
I hope that you are never interrogated for anything, but if you were, do you not think that you would remember their faces. There was another man on TV tonight who was also held. They asked him the same thing, and he said that yes this man was one of the one's who tried to get answers from them.

Sweetie, I'll bet you are a very nice person, and you mean well, but the facts speak for themselves.

I don't appreciate any hostility or condescension ("So now you are a commander!!" "Sweetie . . .")

If you truly value facts, then leave emotion out of it and argue facts. We are in a foreign civil war. We can't win. This is the longest conflict in America's history, other than Vietnam. It is not yet the most expensive (in real dollars), but probably will end up surpassing WWII, as President Bush is demanding billions and billions more to support the Shiites. Or is it the Sunnis? Well, whichever, it is gonna be long and expensive and is decreasing American security, not helping. I'm not willing to sacrifice more American's for another country's conflict AND weaken America at the same time.

Cheers, Aidan

Luanne Russo March 31st, 2007 03:45 AM

The commander part was a joke. The sweetie part was being nice. I am southern and that is what nice sounds like.

Your info is wrong. So, no debate.....

Take care

Rev22:17 March 31st, 2007 04:23 AM

DavidBgood,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
Mike, tempers and feeling are running VERY high here in my country right now on this subject.

Obviously not high enough. Her majesty's loyal government has not yet acted with sufficient force to resolve the matter.

I, and I hope the rest of my country, are with you in this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
They are pushing too far, but I will curtail my real thoughts as I have their lives to take into account

Time is of the essence. In the words Mr. Beamer, "Let's roll!"

Norm.

Rev22:17 March 31st, 2007 04:32 AM

mehawk,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
Pardon my outbursts friends, as this is close to my heart. My SIL in over there.

Rather, thank you for giving rational voice to the emotions that we all are feeling.

And were I to say what I'm really thinking, Aiden and his ilk would see how tempered your words really are!

Norm, who wore the uniform with pride and still serves our nation in a different capacity....

Rev22:17 March 31st, 2007 04:36 AM

Brian,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
Good excuse to go take out their reactor.

Never mind their bloody reactor. We need to take out the malicious malcontents who are in control of their government.

And that means ALL of the mullahs who hold the real power as well as the figureheads who hold the title of office and the peons who prop them up.

Norm.

Rev22:17 March 31st, 2007 04:43 AM

Aidan,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
That fellow is mistaken. Ahmadinejad was not one of the interrogators.

"Interrogation." Now that's a rather polite word of a barrage of ruthless beatings, isn't it?

Spoken by somebody who hasn't a clue what those "hostages" really endured....

And unless you can present clear and compelling evidence of mistaken identity, I'll take the word of somebody who was there during what you blythely call the "interrogation" over the word of somebody who was thousands of miles away when what you blythely call the "interrogation" occurred.

Norm.

Rev22:17 March 31st, 2007 04:51 AM

Aidan,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
I'm not sure if you're arguing to bring our men home or keep them fighting the Iraq Civil War.

All I know is, there is no longer a military objective there.

Unfortunately, Luann is almost right about the "bad guys" coming here. They technically would not come here "with" our troops, but the bad guys would be so close on our troops' tails that you would not be able to tell the differnence. Have you noticed that the organization that we are fighting in Iraq is Al Qaeda -- the same organization that struck us in the "9/11" attack? In fact, they already did, and there are two big holes in the ground in New York and the remnant of an airplane in a field in Pennsylvania that give witness to the fact.

Or do you really want Al Qaeda to come here in force???

Norm.

Aidan March 31st, 2007 04:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Aidan,

Quote:

Originally Posted by You
That fellow is mistaken. Ahmadinejad was not one of the interrogators.

"Interrogation." Now that's a rather polite word of a barrage of ruthless beatings, isn't it?

Spoken by somebody who hasn't a clue what those "hostages" really endured....

Sigh, for the arrogance. As if you know my relationship to any particular hostage.

Sigh, again, for apparent willful lack of reading. They were interrogated, mistreated, burned, froze, deprived, maybe even USA-approved torture like waterboarding.

Ahmadinejad still was not there.

Hard to imagine how anybody could miss the point, but there ya go.

Ay yi yi, Aidan

Aidan March 31st, 2007 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev22:17
Unfortunately, Luann is almost right about the "bad guys" coming here. They technically would not come here "with" our troops, but the bad guys would be so close on our troops' tails that you would not be able to tell the differnence. Have you noticed that the organization that we are fighting in Iraq is Al Qaeda -- the same organization that struck us in the "9/11" attack? In fact, they already did, and there are two big holes in the ground in New York and the remnant of an airplane in a field in Pennsylvania that give witness to the fact.

Or do you really want Al Qaeda to come here in force???

Norm.

You might not know these facts, but the 9/11 attack was carried out by mostly Saudi radicals, associated with Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban, and not related to Iraq. You might also not know that Saddam Hussein was a secular dictator, fond of alcohol, women, and pornography, and not allied with the fundamentalist Taliban.

Prior to the American intervention, Al Quada was not active in Iraq. Today, of course, it is a new fertile training ground. Instead of containing Al Quada in Afghanistan, Bush has moved them 1,000 miles west.

I understand you don't like these facts. But, facts they are.

Cheers, Aidan


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