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  #1 (permalink)  
Old May 25th, 2007, 10:39 AM
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Default "Cruise Victms" and Cruise bashing

I don't know about you guys, but I am just completely fed up with the cruise bashing I see happening in the media. Are they brain dead? They blindly believe these websites that keep citing the same people over and over as "cruise victims" and say it is proof of a wide-spread cover up by the cruise lines of a MAJOR crime problem.

Take a look at this RIDICULOUS article!
http://www.tripso.com/2007/05/nocruise.php

OK - I am very sorry for these victims (though the truth is, some of them were far more victimized than others - and some of them I think I are just along for the media attention or whatever their lawyers can get).

In any case, with apologies to true victims, of which there are a handful out of the 30,000,000+ people who have cruised in the last three years. The fact is there is NOT a crime problem on cruise ships. Yet there are these new web sites set up where everyone is portrayed as a "cruise victim" even if they got juiced on booze they snuck on board and jumped through a window into the drink (that's an amalgam of various cases, not a real person).

What about personal responsibility?

I can tell you, I have been on over 100 cruises, and I can't think of a single crime I ever experienced onboard. Furthermore, I took my family on a cruise back in the 90s and to this day it is one of the most significant events of their entire lives.

What do you think? Have you seen these reports and are you as upset with them as I am?
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Old May 25th, 2007, 02:31 PM
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What I'm most upset about from all these reports is the spin that gets put on them.
I lost track of how many times I got norovirus from school, yet we never hear about it taking out half the population of an elementary school in a week. We do hear when when even 25 cabin's worth of cruise passengers get it.
And you're right about most of the "crimes" involving too much booze, whether smuggled or bought. The rest are people doing things they'd never do on land (such as leaving a drink unattended, and trusting someone you don't know when you've had too much, or left said drink unattended are begin feeling whatever they've put in it).
As for the money thing mentioned in the article, I think 2 words can sum up my response to that: caveat emptor (and forgive my spelling if I'm off).

I will continue to rave about my cruises, and do my best to dispel myths as they're presented to me, but to all the people who swear they'll never cruise because of the "dangers" all I have to say to them is "more room for me."
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Old May 25th, 2007, 03:06 PM
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I agree with everything that's been said! I've been cruising since 1976 and have NEVER seen any kind of incident on any ship I've been on!

All you need is a lawyer who's willing to blow someone's "problem" up out of all proportion to reality.

I intend to continue cruising as long as I possibly can. My next one is set for March 2008.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 03:47 PM
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I would like to urge everyone to go to the website I linked to and leave a comment for the author. Mine is posted first. The whole thing is bogus.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 09:20 PM
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This so-called reporter is an alarmist. He stated that a sail and sign card can be as much as 5 times your fare. Let's look at that. If you book a 5 night cruise on Carnival for $499 you would have to run up a $2,500 tab in order to meet the "5 times" scenario. The only way you can do that is to spend all 5 days in the casino almost non-stop. A $1000 cruise would need to generate a $5,000 tab. Not likely.

As far as sexual assault, many victims of sexual assault on these ships start out as victims of their own poor choices and over-drinking. Personal responsibility. Enough said on that point.

This writer is ridiculous. Cruising is not for everyone but the people that like it, love it.

In just over 12 hours I am getting on my long awaited 8 day cruise on Carnival's Liberty. I wouldn't even know where to look for the problems he has illustrated. And I am an experienced cruiser.
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Old May 25th, 2007, 10:32 PM
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Most media are negative on everything.

I am sick of hearing the *****ing and moaning!

We have been on eight cruises and are booked on
our ninth this fall. (Crown Princess Oct. 20th Sailing from New York to
San Juan)

You have to really be a negative person to not love a cruise.

Negative people need to find another hobby other
than slamming the best vacation experience/value.

We have never experienced anything but great service and
a great experience on all cruises.

I really feel for these people!

KennyG

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Disney Magic '02
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Caribbean Princess '06
Crown Princess '07 (Oct.)
You see a trend developing!!!!!!
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Old May 26th, 2007, 01:56 AM
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This just gets me so damn mad!!!! I sent an email here is what I said!

Dear Joe,

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and I respect yours, however your article is littered with many inaccuracies. I am a travel agent and found it a bit upsetting to see you believe that agents "push" people to cruise because of commission. Not so! I am an agent that gets paid a salary not commission and our job and mission is to fit a person with the right type of vacation. Each cruise line is different and appeals to a certain sect of the traveling public. A good agent knows the differences and pairs the person with a cruise line or even a resort that fits their lifestyle. I always suggest a cruise because I go on them and like them and they have a 97% or so satisfactory rate over 85% or so for land resorts! And if you have ever dealt with the public you would understand that we want our clients happy. I don't want to here someome complaining!

Your claim that cruise ships are germ infested "tubs" is a tad inaccurate. Are there germs on board? Of course, just like there are germs in schools, on planes, in hospitals, at resorts. Any enclosed space has germs and the noro virus is the second common sickness, after the common cold. In fact, last year I had to visit a sick relative at Sloan Kettering Cancer center in NYC. Upon entering their floor I was asked to get into a hospital gown and mask. When I asked why the nurse said that they had an outbreak of a stomach virus. Later that day in the NY POST there was an article stating that Sloan Kettering had a massive (and they used that word) breakout of the NoroVirus. Actually ships that depart US ports are inspected by the CDC and are given a grade. 86 or higher is passing. Virtually all the ships that had a norovirus out brake had scores in the 90's and many scored 100! The CDC rates the ship on cleanliness especially in the galleys. Has food poisoning happened on ships? Yes. But you know how may people I personally know that have gotten ill at local restaurants and I have had clients come back from the Dominican Republic who had gotten some serious food poisoning including one that needed to be hospitalized.

As for the disappearances most of these people are drunk. People need to take responsibility and always be aware of their surroundings no matter where they are. Cruise ships are large and yes crime could and does happen. It ain't a perfect world. And the same crime, killings and sexual assaults happen at land based resorts. I remember reading an article in Travel Trade (a travel agents newspaper) about a couple in the Turks and Caicos Island who had their room broken into with them in it. A hotel employee raped the wife while the husband watched at gunpoint. The Turks and Caicos islands hurriedly shuttled them back home on a private jet. All hush hush.

The reason why the cruise ships get in the news is because they have to report sexual assaults, crime, food poisoning and a flue out brake land based resort do not have to report anything!

I think you need to be a bit more fair and cover travel problems not JUST on cruise ships but in all methods of travel. I for one (as 12 or 13 million people world wide) will still be cruising! In fact I have been on 21 cruises and going on my 22nd! By the way being on a cruise ship is not being stuck doing nothing as you allude to in your article. Ships today have mini golf, surfing, boxing ring, rock-climbing wall, fitness centers, ice skating, multistory theaters, shopping, lounges with music, cabaret shows, lectures, cooking classes, pools, billiards, bowling, basketball courts, dining, cinemas, libraries, internet facilities, casinos, spa, roller blading....list goes on and on. Beats a resort vacation any day - who wants to just sit there at resort for days in some poor part of a country were you can't even leave the resort ground!. Go on a cruise and try something new - you wont fall overboard!

Regards,
Justin
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Old May 26th, 2007, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBCRUZIN'
This so-called reporter is an alarmist. He stated that a sail and sign card can be as much as 5 times your fare. Let's look at that. If you book a 5 night cruise on Carnival for $499 you would have to run up a $2,500 tab in order to meet the "5 times" scenario. The only way you can do that is to spend all 5 days in the casino almost non-stop. A $1000 cruise would need to generate a $5,000 tab. Not likely.
.
He also says that tips can add as much as $40/day to your bill.

By the way, I understand he is now actually posting himself on Tripso forums.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter

He also says that tips can add as much as $40/day to your bill.
What would be the normal tips in a Suite on a Premium line for four passengers. Include Butler's tip but don't include bartender or Sommelier tips in the estimate.

thanks,
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Old May 26th, 2007, 06:08 AM
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[quote="Marc"]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter

What would be the normal tips in a Suite on a Premium line for four passengers. Include Butler's tip but don't include bartender or Sommelier tips in the estimate.
Well under $15 per person per day. Probably closer to $12.

Are you suggesting that his $40 statement is accurate when he didn't say "for a family of four?"

I thought you had a general mistrust of the media, Marc, are defending this one now?
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Old May 26th, 2007, 07:35 AM
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Paul, it is impossible to defend such a poorly written article. However, his points on money matters are not that far off.

Many people have posted about their shipboard account being much more than the initial cost. As for the tips, I really don't know. I know that $10 to $12 plus "half rate" for kids sharing room does add up close to $40; with a butler could take it over $40 per day.

It is amazing what passes for journalism today; of course, many "bloggers" are not journalists by any stretch of the imagination.

Thanks for this new board and the emphasis on cruise news.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 01:10 PM
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Thank YOU Marc.

The problem with the article is that he wrote your shipboard account can be four times higher than your original cruise fare.

I don't doubt it could exceed it.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 01:53 PM
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People need to actually experience the cruise life themselves and enjoy it. I can see where these writers take the negative experiences of people and of those who don't want to cruise and parlay it into a piece of sensationalism for their own platform.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 02:05 PM
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And that is exactly what kills me. My wife tried to organize a family cruise for her family and most of them said no (all who said no had never been on one).

All of the usual misperceptions cropped up - I don't want to be stuck on a boat. She was very disappointed because when you discover something in life as satisfying as a cruise is, you want to share it with your loved ones.

I took my own family on a cruise back in the 1990s, and they had similar misgivins, but I told them I would pay for it. So they (three of them) all went.

It was the experience of their lifetimes. It has been 13 years now and when I go to visit my sister I still see the original brochure and some of the menues sitting out on her coffee table. Same with my mother, she has things I would never save tucked away on bureau drawers, because for them their only cruise ever was the trip of a lifetime. Also my brother, who passed on, had kept similar things in around his house.

My point is there is such a diconnect between what people think before they go and how they feel afterwards, Every cruiser knows that, and every non-cruiser doesn't know it.

And so the frustration goes on, not only that you can't share this wonderfukl experience with people you love, but that they even think you are crazy for wanting to do what you do.

And even for frustrating is that no amount of talking, of testimony by people who have tried it, can convince the non-cruisers any differently.
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Old May 26th, 2007, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
My wife tried to organize a family cruise for her family and most of them said no (all who said no had never been on one).
Same here. Last week's family reunion was in Vegas, which cost more than my upcoming cruise. I suggested a family cruise next year and gathered cost, entertainment, and itinerary comparison information. Although the cruise is the better value with much more to do and see, and the family loves to travel, they aren't convinced because of all the negativity in the media about cruises. None of them have ever been on a cruise. It's ironic really because if people are so afraid of the possibility of crime, why on earth go to Vegas (a man recently jumped from the top of one of the casinos and later the same day the news reported that a man was killed when he got a bag from the top of his car and it exploded) or any big city in the US for that matter (and even Disneyland) where crime is constant but usually reported only locally. It's sad how intelligent people, who know the spin the media puts on everything, can be swayed to miss out on such a wonderful cruise vacation experience.
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Old May 27th, 2007, 07:50 PM
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Paul, I'm with you. These articles drive me crazy. I'm tired of
explaining the real picture of cruise life to my non-cruising friends.
One of them even expressed that they were concerned for me on
one of my last cruises. I feel totally safe, and also feel it is a safe
environment for older kids and teens. Of course, in any situation
whether in a city, small town, or cruise, or port, everyone should be
aware of your surroundings.

I'm SO sick of the honeymooner story, also. I'm sure RCI just
wanted the story to go away, and thus the settlement. Unfortunately,
to many, made them look guilty. What ever happened to personal
responsibility?

I'm going to send a reply to the offending author right now.

Lou
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Old May 27th, 2007, 09:33 PM
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I sometimes wonder how society managed to get everything so topsy turvey. Everyone is a victim these days, no one is ever at fault. Even Jennifer Hagal-Smith.

She kicked her new nusband in the texticles in front of the public in the casino that night and took off, disappearing with another man, for several hours (george Smith never saw her again as fas we know). He ended up so drunk he couldn't hold a cigarette, so he was escorted back to his cabin & put in bed.

Later. someone (it appears) came to his cabin & killed him, or else he just went into a rage (it does happen) and first hurt himself and eventually jumped off th balcony.

In the congressional testimony the distinguished congressman from Maryland, Elijah Cummings, said about the cruise line’s response, “"Here's a woman who has lost her husband and it seems like she is treated in a way that is simply incredible." The congressman from Connecticut, Christopher Shays said, “it sends shivers down my spine. I'm wrestling with how we can trust any statistic from any cruise line who can do what they did to a young bride."

Umm... what about what the dear sweet young bride did? She can't even remember what she did that night.
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Old May 29th, 2007, 06:58 AM
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How can we respond to testimony, opinions like the ones
you just mentioned?
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Old May 29th, 2007, 07:59 AM
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That is a good question. I find it is REALLY hard to "bash" the so called "cruise victims" because there are a very few (five or six) true victims. Some of the cases the media points out are truly bad, and some of them are like Jen Hagal-Smith, or another, Kimberly Dean, whose case is blown way out of proportion.

As pointed out above, the problem is the "spin!" of mass cover-up, hidden problem, etc. One congresswoman pointed out, "there hasn't been a single conviction for sexual assault or murder on a cruise ship in 40 years - that has to be evidence of a mass cover-up. What about the fact that the cruise lines have voluntarily reporting ALL CRIMES to the FBI since 1999, and still no convictions. In all of the cases the media poits to repeated as "the tip of the iceberg," the FBI investigated and determined there was not enough evidence. In a couple of cases, the cruise lines made mistakes in evidence preservation, but if you look at the details of how that happened you understand why. In the Smith cases, for example, the Turkish Gov't said they were done investigating and go ahead and clean it up.

I suppose we could start a web-site about "anti-cruise-bashing" or we could start a petition, or write directly to the congresspeople involved in these hearings.

Or you can always write the news media and just say - "We know these stories are bogus, and we don't want to see them." Might do more good than you think.

I will list some of the more egregious articles that have been put out lately (later today) and we will see what we can do.
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Old June 5th, 2007, 11:31 PM
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Default Re: "Cruise Victms" and Cruise bashing

Paul Motter,

Quote:
Originally Posted by You
I don't know about you guys, but I am just completely fed up with the cruise bashing I see happening in the media. Are they brain dead? They blindly believe these websites that keep citing the same people over and over as "cruise victims" and say it is proof of a wide-spread cover up by the cruise lines of a MAJOR crime problem.

Take a look at this RIDICULOUS article!
http://www.tripso.com/2007/05/nocruise.php

OK - I am very sorry for these victims (though the truth is, some of them were far more victimized than others - and some of them I think I are just along for the media attention or whatever their lawyers can get).

In any case, with apologies to true victims, of which there are a handful out of the 30,000,000+ people who have cruised in the last three years. The fact is there is NOT a crime problem on cruise ships. Yet there are these new web sites set up where everyone is portrayed as a "cruise victim" even if they got juiced on booze they snuck on board and jumped through a window into the drink (that's an amalgam of various cases, not a real person).

What about personal responsibility?

I can tell you, I have been on over 100 cruises, and I can't think of a single crime I ever experienced onboard. Furthermore, I took my family on a cruise back in the 90s and to this day it is one of the most significant events of their entire lives.

What do you think? Have you seen these reports and are you as upset with them as I am?
I think that the problem is even more insidious than most people can imagine.

Fundamentally, look at the pattern of socialist/communist takeovers in western Europe. The extreme elements first infiltrated and took over three elements of socieity: (1) the media (both news and entertainment), (2) the educational institutions (both public schools and colleges and universities), and (3) the labor unions. This gave them complete control over the flow of information to the general public, and thus the ability to control public opinion.

Here in the United States, the political left has followed substantially the same playbook. They now control the traditional media, the educational institutions, and the major labor unions, and they are rapidly advancing a collectivist/communist agenda of public health care, liberal welfare benfits, etc., while supporting trial lawyers and others who seek to undermine our economic foundations of commercial enterprise with excessive regulation designed to kill free enterprise, awards of extreme punitive damages for frivolous lawsuits (the McDonald's Hot Coffee case, for example... what was that about personal responsibility?), and other policies designed to undermine our economic foundation. Fortunately, their efforts to control the flow of information have been frustrated on our shores -- frustrated by radio talk shows (those that have been or are successful are generally conservative), the Internet and especially the "blogosphere," Rupert Murdoch's conservative newspapers, and Fox News Network that provide alternative sources of information.

But getting back to the liberal establishment that controls the major media and its anti-business agenda, is it any surprise that such an establishment would seek to destroy an industry that's enjoying phenomenal prosperity? Thus, they set their sights on the cruise industry, with steady growth of about 20% per year and no end in sight and spin every story that they can about the cruise industry in the most negative possible light.

I don't want to discourage anybody, but I realistically think that we have about two chances of changing the reporting on the cruise industry.

That's right, just two chances.

Let me introduce you to the Chance brothers, Fat and Slim....

The only unanswered question is whether the author of such trash is part of the inner circle with its hidden agenda or merely one of those ignorant pawns whom Lennin so accurately dubbed "useful idiots."

Norm.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: "Cruise Victms" and Cruise bashing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
I don't know about you guys, but I am just completely fed up with the cruise bashing I see happening in the media. Are they brain dead? They blindly believe these websites that keep citing the same people over and over as "cruise victims" and say it is proof of a wide-spread cover up by the cruise lines of a MAJOR crime problem.

Take a look at this RIDICULOUS article!
http://www.tripso.com/2007/05/nocruise.php

OK - I am very sorry for these victims (though the truth is, some of them were far more victimized than others - and some of them I think I are just along for the media attention or whatever their lawyers can get).

In any case, with apologies to true victims, of which there are a handful out of the 30,000,000+ people who have cruised in the last three years. The fact is there is NOT a crime problem on cruise ships. Yet there are these new web sites set up where everyone is portrayed as a "cruise victim" even if they got juiced on booze they snuck on board and jumped through a window into the drink (that's an amalgam of various cases, not a real person).

What about personal responsibility?

I can tell you, I have been on over 100 cruises, and I can't think of a single crime I ever experienced onboard. Furthermore, I took my family on a cruise back in the 90s and to this day it is one of the most significant events of their entire lives.

What do you think? Have you seen these reports and are you as upset with them as I am?
Ok Paul,

At the risk of offending anyone I have a question, why do we care? I mean look at it this way if the cruise lines get bashed they will try that much harder to please us and we win. If the ships don't fill up then the cruise lines lower prices and we win. If the ships don't fill up as much the cruise lines take us to more new and exciting places and we win.

I mean really, if the cruise lines have to work harder to overcome the negative publicity, we win!!!

Let people keep bashing cruising, it makes the cruise lines work harder and therefore we have a better kept secret.

Haven't you ever done something and then said oh no look at all the people here, our secret is out? I kind of like my cruising secret!

Bill 8)
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Old June 16th, 2007, 10:11 AM
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nvabill...

I like the way you think.

I guess my personal preoblem is that I am in the public eye a little more and I personally do not like the weird looks I get from some people when I tell them what I do.

But - you know what I have found out about many of these people, they aren't just "cruise victims" - in many cases they are "life victims" in the sense that they think everyone owes them something just because...

They are not the kind of people I would choose to associate myself with many times.

Once again - my usual disclaimer. This is not true if ALL of these victims. There are some tragic cases out there and I really di understand and regret what happened to these people.

What I dis a gree with is every person who ever got pickled on a cruise ships and tripped on his shoelaces referring to himslef as a "cruise victim." Could have happened anywhere, and was your own fault.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 10:22 AM
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I will say that I have quit trying to convince people why I like to cruise, with some you just can't explain it!
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Old June 16th, 2007, 11:41 AM
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another news article caught my eye and I was watching to see if the reporters were going to jump on it like they do with the news concerning illnesses on cruiseships

apparently two separate flights: one was from Mexico to Miami: 11 people were ill - about 10% of the passengers on the plan; did it get "over publicized" _ Nope - couldn't even find a follow up on it

another flight: not sure where the flight originated, but it too landed in Miami with ill passengers - again, very small news brief and no follow up.

now if this had been a cruise returning to Miami; the press would have been all over it.....

=============================================
the press is doing the same thing to cruise lines, as they did years ago to Vegas - I can remember being scared (rhymes with witless) about traveling to Vegas for fear of: being robbed of money and/or body parts, of having my personal information stolen and my assets wiped out before I returned home, of getting tainted mixed drinks, etc... but I refused to be a victim of over sensalization and went ahead and booked a trip to Vegas and can tell you nothing bad happened and I got hooked on going there as much as i got hooked on cruising.

to me any person traveling is a person of opportunity and that was taught to me very early on - my mom always said don't make yourself an obvious target: instead, be prepared, be careful and don't fumble about with your purse, your keys, etc. as that makes you a target for the opportunists; this can apply to any form of travel and basically even going to the grocery store etc...
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Old June 16th, 2007, 01:48 PM
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Well, as far as the CDC Norovirus stuff, I am at least noticing that the news stories are now confined to the local papers where the ships are docking. It used to be "national news" but the national media I actually think is tsrating to catch on that every outbreak on a ship isn't an avian flu crisis.

Come to think of it, if yu look at all the ways in which the media has been "wrong" in the last few years you tsrat to realize how much misinformation there is out there:

Remember: SARs? Avian Flu? - wasn't there another big disease we were all supposed to be afraid of as well? I can't remember it now.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 06:03 PM
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oh yeah I remember the SARS media blitz very well; at the time I worked in a large office building and there was a certain type of people that latched onto that and swore that all the office buildings downtown, including the one I was working in were also contaminated because of SARS, and the frequent fliers of fellow employees, etc --- gee it mysteriously went away without the need for the building to be disinfected...

I am not demeaning the fact that SARS did exist to some extent, but it was very overhyped.
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Old June 16th, 2007, 06:43 PM
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Oh my Norm, I can see where our government and some followers of certain politicians are rapidly leading us into the socialist trap. We need to stop this and retain our republic status, not refering to the republican party but we are a republic, not a democracy.
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Old June 19th, 2007, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Motter
I would like to urge everyone to go to the website I linked to and leave a comment for the author. Mine is posted first. The whole thing is bogus.
I posted Mine Paul! Thanks for This web site to do it, I agree with everyone here as well Ive been on 7 Cruises and the 8th. coming up and Ive never seen any kinds of problems as stated!
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Old October 24th, 2007, 03:36 AM
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Unbalivable! But you know what, I belive guy just wanted some attention (site traffic). I bet he doesn't belive his own words

But then again, if he doesn't want to have cruise let him be, it his right
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Old December 5th, 2007, 01:05 PM
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Lots of maritime lawyers bash the cruise industry trying to drum up business! Some of them make cruising sound like a stroll through Bagdahd.
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