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Old June 1st, 2007, 11:17 AM
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Default Let's Talk About The Man Who Has TB

I was hearing the reports about the man who, knowing that he was infected, got on not one plane, but several to go get married in Europe. He was advised not to travel. When he was told he could not return to the US, he got on a foreign airline into Canada, and then drove back to the states.

In my mind this is so not right. He endangered his life, as well as what might be thousands of others.

Is this a sign of the times, where people will only think of themselves first, or do you think this man did not care?
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Old June 1st, 2007, 12:39 PM
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Both. He thought only of himself and did not care what the others suffered for.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 01:42 PM
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The whole thing is beyond me...I can't imagine wanting to get married while I was being treated for such a rare form of TB - let alone go to the lengths he went to. I guess Michael has it right - a truly selfish person
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Old June 1st, 2007, 01:49 PM
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from the reports I read; he got conflicting information from the start and didn't find out until he was overseas that it was the rare form that was immune to normal treatment; it seems that he may a call based on the information he had at the time; maybe not what we would do, but possibly under pressure due to the wedding and what not, and it turned out to be a bad call. What I don't agree with is sneaking back into the country after he found out it was the rare form of TB.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 02:02 PM
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Go to ABC news.com, Dians Sawyer had an exclusive interview with the man and his wife...read their side, then we can discuss more.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 02:42 PM
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Here's a link to the story on iwon.com :
http://apnews1.iwon.com/article/20070601/D8PG3JGG0.html

In it there are some quotes from Andrew Speaker and his father. They were together at a doctors and recorded the conversation. The one thing they point out is that he was not told definitely not to travle and that statements about not traveling were more to cover the doctors. He was advised that he was not contaigous or a danger to anyone else.

I'm not sure that I would have traveled in this case, but they felt they were save in traveling.

There is another good article about this case on iwon.com about the different types of lawsuits that could come about. He could sue for the quartenne (sp) and others could sue him if they end up with tb due to contact from him.

After reading the different articles I can understand that they were scared no to come back to the US, not thinking that they could get the right help in Europe. They realised he needed to get help from the hospital in Denver. So they did the only thing they could figure out to do.

I feel for not only them but anyone who came in contact.
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Old June 1st, 2007, 10:57 PM
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Putting on my flameproof suit!

Really, I mean really think about what you would do. If I was seriously ill I would do just about anything to get back to the US and our excellent medical care. If he'd been left in Italy he might have died.

As nlb1050 said, he was not told not to travel. He didn't have any symptoms, wasn't coughing and had no fever.

IMO, I think that a year from now there will be no one (wife and step-daughter included) who has gotten TB from him.

It is scary, but this could have happened anywhere; on a plane, on a cruise ship, in an office building, a school, etc., etc...

It's been reported that other people have this type of TB, but you never hear about it. Why? They were at home, not on a plane! Everyone around them has also been checked for this type of TB, but I've not heard of any "outbreaks".
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 12:39 AM
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The whole thing is exceptiponally odd. First of all, his new father in law is a TB specialist with the CDC. One would presume since he knew he has TB, he would get accurate info from him. He was given fatherly advice? Well either his father in law is a pretty crummy doctor, or he simple disregarded the advice not to fly..When I read between the lines, it does seem like maybe it was the FIL who reported he left ......

At the least, he was reckless and showed little regard for others. He admits that a mask was mentioned as a safety, should he travel, yet no one on the plane remembers seeing him wear one. ( if it is true they only recomended he didnt travel, but said a mask would help to be safe, why was he not wearing one??) Masks have become more common. In our hospitals, any one with regular cold and cough are asked to put on a mask to prevent spread to other patients. At the least he could have worn one and just said I dont want to give any one a cold. BTW, if you do have a bad cold or cough, or flu, wear a mask, people will appreciate you more for it.

This situation is also a negative coment on American homeland security. He was flagged with warnings, and photos, but the Amrican border control still let him in without stopping, apparently thinking it was not that serious. Stop, detain and isolate doesnt mean let him through. It would have been nice if the American GVT let the officials at Canada health know of this case, and any case as serious as this. It is a huge gapping hole. Apparently the border official has been placed on administrative duties......

No one was going to be left in Italy and to think so is unrealistic. He has travelled on two private planes from CDC and it was a matter of waiting for these arrangements. He is an American citizen and entitled to this. IF it is true they did not offer help , A quick call to the American news media, he would not be stranded for long not to mention Italy would have wanted him out as fast as they could say leave. No country wants a patient with this...........I dont believe for even a moment he would be stranded till his death. He had insurance and they have paid for air ambulance he has already taken............were not talking about some one who had no way home, come on........he just wanted to get home now................He admits now he could have raised the money to come home?? I think so as well..........he is a personal injury lawyer, the FIL is a doctor......he will be OK. He also had insurance although one can wonder if they would ( and it seems they would have despite all of this) cover this travelgiven he left even though he was advised not to. Advised not to means no. This is no time for legal speak. If it was not him, and he was the lawyer of the passenger.you can bet he would be in line to sue. By his own admission he felt fine and had no symptoms.........hello, but he is terrified he is going to die in Italy? You cannot have it both ways.......I travelled because I felt fine, and then I travelled cause I needed to go home so I wont die.

Hopefully a year from now no one will be affected, however if it is some one who is getting chemo, who is on steroids, who has HIV, all immune issues, then you better pray with the hope. TB is harder to spread, that is for sure, but Africa is having a real problem with this TB, and we will as well , it is only a matter of time. We need to be considerate of others and not only of our needs and our fears. If we dont, you will go back to the days of asylums for TB. Over here, TB patients have to take medications in front of some one to make sure they comply with treatment. it is that serious, It is a serious disease. Some patients after a few months who prove them selves reliant and complient no longer have to have daily supervision .

The whole things goes beyong strange, he may well be a great nice guy, but he is educated enough to know what he was doing, and he knew what he was doing was wrong, and I dont buy for a minute he needed to get back to America for care...........He can wait a couple of days so arrangments can be made safely.

I appreciate his tears and such, and I dont say he is a bad person, but that does not change that in my mind he did a reckless thing, and a selfish thing. Again were not talking about a dummy who does not know better.........the world goes beyond Me Myself and I.

No one will come back with positives tests now as a result of this. Tests should be done now to see what their statis is and then followed up with further skin testing. Some patients may have already been exposed ( but dont carry the illness, and of course have had vaccines .....but these skin tests are usually small)

We dont live in a world any more that we can rely on antibiotics.......

Thats my rant ..............its only my thoughts and opinions so please dont flame me.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 12:59 AM
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All very valid points Delfthuis.

Also, this guy is a personal injury attorney so he knows full well that he has left himself wide open for all sorts of litigation ... even if no one shows at this point in time that they're positive to this TB strain - they might later.

He certainly could have waited in Italy for the private charter to take him back home. He knew full well that he was wrong what with his sneaking back in the country through Canada.

One very selfish sob IMO.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 04:51 AM
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"Assault with a deadly weapon".

I never met my grandfather who died in the early 1900's because of an epidemic (after WWI).

I am really annoyed at this guy who put other peoples health at risk because he wanted, not needed to fly to europe to get married.

He should go to jail, in isolation of course?
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 02:36 PM
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Because of the ease of air travel, the world has really become a 'global village'. Exotic adventure and thrills within hours away! But also, some unwelcome surprises.

In the past, the transmitting of some viruses or diseases could be viewed as self-limiting due to the isolation or location of the outbreak. This is especially true of most airborne viruses. But now, because of air travel, contagious and deadly viruses have accessibility to hosts in limits previously unknown.

This little TB scare doesn’t evoke much fear, just mostly irritation at the situation’s stupidity.

I can’t help but wonder what the reaction would be if this guy would have had something even more exotic, like the Ebola virus…and he needed to board an AIRPLANE in order to get home to the USA for care. Some might not be so generous in their comments.
This young man is educated and traveled and really knew better.

Before most of us can work with the public or children we have to take a TB /x-ray screening. Doesn’t that ring alarm bells that the medical community still considers TB a serious threat?

A man named Charles Monet boarded a plane and flew from Kisumu, Africa to Nairobi with full-blown Ebola symptoms. (He needed to get to a better hospital in Nairobi.) He exposed everyone on the plane, the taxi driver, hospital nurses and doctors and everyone else that came in contact with him to this fatal disease. Later, nurses and a doctor who cared for Monet did die of Ebola. (a terrible death) Ebola also has been found to be an AIRBORNE virus.

1918 Spanish flu…airborne. Kills as many as 50 million people worldwide in less than 24 weeks. Spread…by human contact/air..

2003 SARS (airborne, but contained)

My point? This incident shows how easily it is to spread potentially deadly diseases from one country to another…becoming a virtual pandemic.

So…should we curl up and isolate ourselves? NO!! But sometimes it’s good to display a little knee-jerk reaction, just to let the ‘Power’s That Be’ know, that we, the public are paying attention.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 03:01 PM
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Another important point is that he was able to over ride the no fly list, by going to another airline, to travel. Also, that list should be at every boarder crossing.

I saw the interview with his wife last night. She said that she has not been able to kiss him, since the wedding, but yet we are to believe that all these people he was with were not in any danger? This man did not involve just one plane load of people, but many. Not to forget all the service people he dealt with along the way.

Anyone who has a computer can look up TB and can learn what it can do, and what you need to do to prevent the spread. This was an educated man, who should have thought of others before himself.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 03:08 PM
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Well said Fieldmouse, I always said the whole SARS issue was a eye opener on how easy things are spread to this day.

People don't take TB seriously. They think of it as a disease from the past. It is not, and many infections today that we thought of as nothing ten years ago is an issue now because of drug resistance.

Drug resistance is not a joke. It is real. With MRSA, that you only saw in hospitalized patients now making it's way into the communitty.....several big cities across Canada have a real problem with community aquired MRSA. VRE and a Pseudomonous that is also highly resistant and very often fatal especially when in the lungs. At first it was something confined to sick people, hospitalized people, only now that it has unleashed itself into the healthy community are people slowly realizing how serious infection is...........we dont only have to fear viral infections. We are back into an era that bacterial ones are a real issue some times now as well. This will I am afraid and according to the literature only get worse.

If you are prescribed antibiotics, take them as prescribed and the full dose, not just till you feel better, as then you kill the weaker germs and the stronger surrvive. Just because you may have a mionor bacterial infection doesnt mean you should run to the doctors . We have an immune system, it's there for a reason. You should always have an area cultured BEFORE starting antibiotics............to find out what the appropriate treatment is ( unless you are critical of course). That is why many doctors today will swab a throat before giving the drugs. Never share anti biotics or take some one elses ( who are supposed to be finished any ways !) when you get sick.......you would be amazed how often people do this. Wash your hands, wash your hand and wash them again...........and iof you are looking for a cruise line that insists on clean hands..........it's NCL. Some people find it irritating how they insist you use the sanitizers so much, but it is so well worth it. Dont visit your friend at the hospital when you are sick....and don't bring your germs to work either............Viral infectrions should not be treated with antibiotics. They wont help PERIOD. ( except in your head mentally) Stay in bed, drinks lots, have a warm bath, take tylenol or ibuprofin..........and get some one to make you a good pot of chicken soup, makes you feel as good as any drug!

Last but not least regarding TB, and now I will say something that a highly prominant infectious disease doctor wrote about in our paper, and that is spitting on the side walk. There was a time, In Canada ( I dont know about in the states) when spitting would have you arrested and heavely fined. People knew well enough that this could spread TB. This was in the height of TB and little treatment when people were forced in asylums for TB. I am completely amazed at how many grown indaviduals, clearly educated and well dressed and then you see them hock it up and spit on the street or side walk.........hello, does any one have any idea the bacetrerial spread in something like that? Besides being grosse to watch, it is a real danger..........I wish I had that writting handy, he wrote it so blunt, and any one reading it who ever spat in their life would feel mortified.......The description was enough for you to stop eating breakfrast when he described everything medically that came up with one act of spitting............It's kind of almost as bad as describing whats on your hands when you dont wash them properly...........

After reading that, you all may want to get a small bucket of hot water and soap and start cleaning the phone, key board, mouse etc etc etc..............
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luanne Russo
Another important point is that he was able to over ride the no fly list, by going to another airline, to travel. Also, that list should be at every boarder crossing.

.
I know Canadian health officials are pretty ticked off that American officials DID NOT share this information with them. If the shoe was on the other foot, there would be a congrsssional inquiry. As for border guards, He was on Alert, only to American border guards ( again info not shared with other countries including the country he was in!) the American border guard let him in..said in his view he didnt look that sick, so much for a detain, and place in isolation order and call CDC immedietly..........orders are only as good as the dummy who carries them out.he is apparently on desk duty now..........what are we going to have next Bin Laden walk through and some one says" well he didnt look that dangerous so I let him through??
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 03:27 PM
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I know what you mean. Now we have border guards, playing doctor. All of this would have been avoided if the man had stayed home, but hopefully real hard lessons have been learned so that it won't happen again.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 06:26 PM
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I've read the previous postings by my fellow CruiseMates and I agree with them all, but the bottom line is......this man has proven himself to be a very selfish, inconsiderate, spoiled and self-absorbed person. By his own accounting he refers to himself as "intelligent". I don't think so.
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inis46
I've read the previous postings by my fellow CruiseMates and I agree with them all, but the bottom line is......this man has proven himself to be a very selfish, inconsiderate, spoiled and self-absorbed person. By his own accounting he refers to himself as "intelligent". I don't think so.
Opps...that declaration may come back to haunt him!
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Old June 2nd, 2007, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inis46
I've read the previous postings by my fellow CruiseMates and I agree with them all, but the bottom line is......this man has proven himself to be a very selfish, inconsiderate, spoiled and self-absorbed person. By his own accounting he refers to himself as "intelligent". I don't think so.
Opps...that declaration may come back to haunt him!
Let the haunting begin........speaking of haunting.....anyone watch the live 7 hour special last night on "Most Haunted", broadcasted from Philly's Eastern State Penitentiary (former home of Al Capone)? Scarrryyyyyyyy!
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Old June 3rd, 2007, 03:10 AM
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in this age of 24 hour instant coverage and the internet this story has reached into a new life of it's own...I wonder when the real information will come out, there is more to this story then we are hearing
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Old June 3rd, 2007, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
in this age of 24 hour instant coverage and the internet this story has reached into a new life of it's own...I wonder when the real information will come out, there is more to this story then we are hearing
I agree there are things we dont know and this case is bizzare to say the least.

I would like to know medically speaking how and where he got it? As he asserts, by saying he didnt think he was a risk to others, and that it is hard to get, it is true also with regard to him. Yes he went to Peru and Vietnam, and these area's do have this TB especially in Vietnam. He must have been pretty close to some one really spewing out the bacterium. It just does not make sence at all, its not usually casual contact. I doubt he was caring for some one long term with this illness, it just makes me wonder who he had such close contact with in order to get it..........

Africa has the highest rate of this type of TB given their population with HIV, the more immune compromised you are the greater the risk, also patients on chemo, long terms steroids and a whole host of other immune dieases are at greater risk of easily getting ill.

Our local papers say his FIL denied in an interview that he got this form of TB from his lab. What a novel that would make!

Many years ago, there was a group of nurses caring for a patient with MS. She was origionally from Vietnam. She was in hospital near the end of her life and was there for about three months. There were no isolation precautions. Upon her death she had an autopsy. It was found out that she had active TB. This caused great concern for all the staff, cleaners, nurses, doctors and so on. All staff coming into a hopsital need a test prior to starting work. So all the staff had to go again and get re tested and there was a surprising amount of staff who converted positive on skin test who were with the patient on a regular basis. None of the doctors or cleaners were positive but there were several nurses that converted to positive. All their chest x rays were negative, but all the nurses who converted were placed on medications for one years time.
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Old June 3rd, 2007, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msblackjack
from the reports I read; he got conflicting information from the start and didn't find out until he was overseas that it was the rare form that was immune to normal treatment; it seems that he may a call based on the information he had at the time; maybe not what we would do, but possibly under pressure due to the wedding and what not, and it turned out to be a bad call. What I don't agree with is sneaking back into the country after he found out it was the rare form of TB.

This is also what I heard!
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Old June 3rd, 2007, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by msblackjack
from the reports I read; he got conflicting information from the start and didn't find out until he was overseas that it was the rare form that was immune to normal treatment; it seems that he may a call based on the information he had at the time; maybe not what we would do, but possibly under pressure due to the wedding and what not, and it turned out to be a bad call. What I don't agree with is sneaking back into the country after he found out it was the rare form of TB.

This is also what I heard!
If you watch the ABC news report with Diane Sawyer, He clearly knew he had TB when he left, and he knew it was a resistant TB two days before he left, it was when he was away that he found out how resistant it was, that it was the worste type of resistance. He clearly went into panic mode, and he did something deceptive and in my view criminal. He was told not to travel on a plane, period.

Saying he did it fearing for his life? I don't buy it. First of all, as I stated, they were not going to leave him there till the end of time, second of all Italy would not let him stay there one day longer than needed to get him home, they dont want this TB in their country either, and next, He wasnt according to him actively sick, and last but not least,
he knew about treatment at the Denver hospital......PRIOR to leaving, he says in the interview he was desperate to get to America and this hospital..........so he knew enough about TB, and he knew enough that he had a resistant form of it, granted he did not how resistant it actually was.

He says he has a tape recording that he was alloud to go. Strange this is. That means in his mind, deep down, he had his father tape the conversation in order to protect himself in case something happened. Normal people dont go into their doctors office and secretly tape a conversation. That is bizzare. Yes, maybe he has a bad memory, and I have actually had patients say, can I record my instructions as I dont remember things well. Sure that is fine, I have no problem with that, but secretly? There is a part of him who knew he was doing something not kosher. If in fact it was recorded as it has not been turned over. I am sure that his FIL parted the fact he should not leave , in the so called fatherly adivce ..............and it is widely known it was his FIL who reported he left the country and where they were, so that CDC could get in contact with him.

Also worth noting, America yes has excellent medical facilities, but do not presume that other medical facilities are second rate. They are not. Europe is not a third world country with no ability to treat a patient with TB and a patient with this type of TB.

Now, if you think your thanksgiving table has family problems, can you imagine being a TB specialist with CDC and your daughter married a guy who did all of this? That your daughter, also not an uneducated person did this? Oh wow, that would be a good wall to be on if one was a fly!
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Old June 3rd, 2007, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delfthuis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou 123
Quote:
Originally Posted by msblackjack
from the reports I read; he got conflicting information from the start and didn't find out until he was overseas that it was the rare form that was immune to normal treatment; it seems that he may a call based on the information he had at the time; maybe not what we would do, but possibly under pressure due to the wedding and what not, and it turned out to be a bad call. What I don't agree with is sneaking back into the country after he found out it was the rare form of TB.

This is also what I heard!
If you watch the ABC news report with Diane Sawyer, He clearly knew he had TB when he left, and he knew it was a resistant TB two days before he left, it was when he was away that he found out how resistant it was, that it was the worste type of resistance. He clearly went into panic mode, and he did something deceptive and in my view criminal. He was told not to travel on a plane, period.

Saying he did it fearing for his life? I don't buy it. First of all, as I stated, they were not going to leave him there till the end of time, second of all Italy would not let him stay there one day longer than needed to get him home, they dont want this TB in their country either, and next, He wasnt according to him actively sick, and last but not least,
he knew about treatment at the Denver hospital......PRIOR to leaving, he says in the interview he was desperate to get to America and this hospital..........so he knew enough about TB, and he knew enough that he had a resistant form of it, granted he did not how resistant it actually was.

He says he has a tape recording that he was alloud to go. Strange this is. That means in his mind, deep down, he had his father tape the conversation in order to protect himself in case something happened. Normal people dont go into their doctors office and secretly tape a conversation. That is bizzare. Yes, maybe he has a bad memory, and I have actually had patients say, can I record my instructions as I dont remember things well. Sure that is fine, I have no problem with that, but secretly? There is a part of him who knew he was doing something not kosher. If in fact it was recorded as it has not been turned over. I am sure that his FIL parted the fact he should not leave , in the so called fatherly adivce ..............and it is widely known it was his FIL who reported he left the country and where they were, so that CDC could get in contact with him.

Also worth noting, America yes has excellent medical facilities, but do not presume that other medical facilities are second rate. They are not. Europe is not a third world country with no ability to treat a patient with TB and a patient with this type of TB.

Now, if you think your thanksgiving table has family problems, can you imagine being a TB specialist with CDC and your daughter married a guy who did all of this? That your daughter, also not an uneducated person did this? Oh wow, that would be a good wall to be on if one was a fly!

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Old June 3rd, 2007, 10:13 PM
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"Selfish, ignorant, thoughtless, inconsiderate...."

Add "recently famous" to the list, with the book and movie deals, speaking appearances etc that the notoriety will certainly bring......

American Media creates the most worthless celebrities.

He should be handed a revolver and be told to play Russian Roulette 'till you lose..... (but wait... the guy who hands him the gun becomes Jack Kevorkian's successor....)
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Old June 4th, 2007, 03:35 AM
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I wonder if he signed on for his book deal yet ? As for Dianne Sawyer's interview, she is unwatchable. Her and Larry King are the softball champions of the world. Question - who is going to pay for finding all the people who shared his fouled up air on the flights, and the followup testing and medical procedures ?
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Old June 4th, 2007, 10:20 AM
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It seems to me that Diane Sawyer has been playing the advocatre for this couple in order to get exclusive interviews and her sympathy in her tone is evident. The interview with the family today just had me fall off the chair. The FIL was there for the wedding. He is under investigation. Speaker knew Since January he had TB. there was time to make other plans. Repeatedly you hear them say " we were told not to travel yes, but then when we asked if this was said because I was really a risk or to protect them selves, they say that they were told it was to cover them selves. OK if that is true, then while the risk of transmission is low, it is theorehetically possible............so why risk it? Can they not get married in the states? What part of dont travel, regardless of if being a real risk or not? And if I hear one more time the brides sobby tears that she has not kissed her love since the wedding, I really do feel the family is themselves some what deceptive. I dont say malicious, but they are with very poor judgment and they are in denial. There is no question in my mind that the CDC also has made mistakes and should have done things in writting, right away, but its all a lack of common sence. Bottom line, is he may have thought it was OK to go there, but he KNEW he was not to go home using a comercial plane. The family knows well how to seek out media now to plead their case, they coulkd have done the same when they needed to get him back home. Going was wrong, but mistakes were made on both sides, coming home was really wrong.
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Old June 4th, 2007, 11:30 AM
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after reading the newer reports and interviews, I have to say I am truly shocked and feel no sympathy for this man or his family; he should be made responsbile to pay for the costs of finding the passengers, the notification process, as well as their time and money to be tested and caree for; geesh.... what an - - -,

is it irony, coincidence or what? that the FIL works for the CDC - wonder what the "true" story is... something along the lines of a Robin Cook novel??
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Old June 4th, 2007, 01:56 PM
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I'm going to jump into the fray herewith the knowledge that I have. First, I am a medical technologist who works in a microbiology lab in a large medical center. One of the areas that I routinely work in(once or twice a week) is the TB(proper name -Mycobacteriology) lab. At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all, if anybody thinks this is the first time this has ever happened they are extremely naive. The media has blown this waaaayyyyy out of proportion. This is not to say that it isn't a dangerous situation because it is, but to act like something like this doesn't ever happen is disingenuous. From what I have read about this man and his illness, CDC stated that he was smear negative, which generally means that the patient isn't actively contagious. Obtaining smear negative, as opposed to smear positive specimens, is one of the means that doctors use to determine when a patient is ready to be taken out of isolation.What makes the situation so scary is the fact that it is an XDR TB, because CDC certainly doesn't want to see a large number of people come down with it, that would be a true public health nightmare. I'm not going to debate the man's supposed selfishness or lack of consideration, everyone has already done that. What this situation says to me is that our public health system and our border security leaves a lot to be desired. Public health funding is never done at the proper levels; there isn't really a mechanism in place to keep patients from traveling and sometimes follow-up, and getting them to take the proper meds for the proper length of time is very difficult. As for border security, I'm sure there are terrorists out there right now who are trying how to figure out how to exploit our border security(or lack thereof) with a disease that is spread much more easily than TB.
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Old June 4th, 2007, 02:01 PM
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Very well said!!!!! Thank you for your knowledge.

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Old June 4th, 2007, 02:32 PM
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Interesting two2cruise...thanks for the insight.

Knowledge is power, and this guy made an informed decision WITH intent!

He got in/on an airplane, (an enclosed container) with a crowd of innocents, in all kinds of physical health...and then proceeded to share with them his bounty of germs via the re-cycled air for hours!

Had we been given the choice, even knowing the details you have so clearly explained...we would have opted out...or had HIM asked to leave.

His fellow passengers were not given the opportunity to make an informed decision either way. HE made the decision for them.
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