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  #31 (permalink)  
Old August 11th, 2007, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by venice
I just think baseball is very hypocritical and somehow has lost it's mantle as "America's Game"
Baseball has always had a disreputable image. The concept of "America's game" is marketing.

Cheers, Aidan
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 01:31 PM
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There is only Babe Ruth. No one else. No steroids, dead ball (compared to the "golf" balls used today), far out fences, better quality of pitchers (faced only seven teams during the season not the dilution of talent we have today), higher mound, heavy bat (42 oz, not the 28 splinters used today) all day games (no ac domes, night games), no DH, and less games. World class pitcher (35 complete games in one season) WS record stood for almost 40 years. Hit more HRs than any other TEAM in the league. Forget 1927 - 59 HRs in 1921 before the long ball was recognized as inportant stat in the game. As far as Whites only - what great Black pitcher would have gotten him out in the twenties ? Were they better than Walter Johnson ? GC Alexander ? Eddie Cicotte ? et al ? Check out his fielding % and base running stats. Bonds ? A-Rod ? Gimme a break !
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 01:40 PM
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Speaking of baseball's image, I read a book about Baseball's "Dark Side" (scandals, crimes, etc.) Half of the book involved Ty Cobb. I was amazed by the story of how he went into the stands and beat the hell out of a guy with no hands that was heckling him at the Polo Grounds in NY. When asked about it he supposedly said "he has two feet, don't he ?"
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 03:06 PM
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Subtropic..due to segregation we will never know but I do believe there was a very famous barnstorming exhibition game between the allstars from the then "Negro Leagues" and the allstars from the then "Major leagues" and Josh Gibson struck out "murder's row" in Chicago (I think) and that was the last year that the game was played
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Old August 12th, 2007, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan

Baseball has always had a disreputable image. The concept of "America's game" is marketing.

Cheers, Aidan
Baseball is NOT "disreputable". Baseball is a game played played by millions of people all over the world. T-Ball, Little League, Pony League, High School, College and the professional levels have always strived to promote baseball as good, character building game for youth and adult alike. On top of that, millions of people all over the world enjoy watching the game and cheering for their favorite players and teams. Why would you say the game of baseball has a "disreputable" image?
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Old August 12th, 2007, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subtropic
There is only Babe Ruth. No one else. No steroids, dead ball (compared to the "golf" balls used today), far out fences, better quality of pitchers (faced only seven teams during the season not the dilution of talent we have today), higher mound, heavy bat (42 oz, not the 28 splinters used today) all day games (no ac domes, night games), no DH, and less games. World class pitcher (35 complete games in one season) WS record stood for almost 40 years. Hit more HRs than any other TEAM in the league. Forget 1927 - 59 HRs in 1921 before the long ball was recognized as inportant stat in the game. As far as Whites only - what great Black pitcher would have gotten him out in the twenties ? Were they better than Walter Johnson ? GC Alexander ? Eddie Cicotte ? et al ? Check out his fielding % and base running stats. Bonds ? A-Rod ? Gimme a break !
This is the question that has befuddled sports fans in the past and will forever in the future when you try to compare players from different eras. There is no way to know how Babe Ruth would play today or how A-Rod would've played in the 1920's. It's apples to oranges.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 05:52 PM
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Bllueliner..I agree 100%..topic closed

Now, when I went on a cruise to Bermuda many moons ago I watched a cricket match..first time I have ever seen the sport and it is fascinating and it is almost the national sport of not only Bermuda but many of the caribbean islands

how come it has not caught on in the Us ?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueliner

Baseball is NOT "disreputable". Baseball is a game played played by millions of people all over the world. T-Ball, Little League, Pony League, High School, College and the professional levels have always strived to promote baseball as good, character building game for youth and adult alike. On top of that, millions of people all over the world enjoy watching the game and cheering for their favorite players and teams. Why would you say the game of baseball has a "disreputable" image?
Of course baseball is fun to play and watch. But the history of professional baseball is one of scandals and thuggish, immoral behavior.

Cheers, Aidan
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
But the history of professional baseball is one of scandals and thuggish, immoral behavior
As is the history of mankind, in just about everything we've ever done.

The truth is there are "instances" of that in baseball, and in just about everything human beings have ever done.
There are also instances of great leadership, philanthropy, heroism, etc.
I don't think it has dominated baseball any more than it is many other areas of our lives and our history.

As for "immoral behavior", morality is generally set by the standard of any particular community at the time, so morality changes with the times, and with the geographic. But then that's a whole other conversation
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 08:33 PM
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Aidan - If that is what you believe about baseball, than you obviously just don't like the game, or have not watched it or know it's history.

Venice - Cricket did kind of catch on in the US, it just evolved into baseball. I think Americans like games that are uniquely American in nature, like baseball, football, basketball and etc. However, those games are becoming more and more international now, and other sports that have not been considered American, like soccer and golf, have become more and more popular here in the US with the US population shift over the years. As long as baseball continues to be as wildly popular as it is, cricket probably won't become a big sport here in the US.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuki
Quote:
But the history of professional baseball is one of scandals and thuggish, immoral behavior
As is the history of mankind, in just about everything we've ever done.
OK, but the assertion was that baseball was special, above that, and I agree with you, it's not. Certainly nothing to be put on a pedestal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuki
As for "immoral behavior", morality is generally set by the standard of any particular community at the time, so morality changes with the times, and with the geographic.
Regarding baseball players, I was thinking along the lines of murder and sexual expolitation of children. You weren't specific, but if you are saying the morality of those crimes changes with the times, I respectfully disagree.

Cheers, Aidan
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old August 12th, 2007, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aidan
Regarding baseball players, I was thinking along the lines of murder and sexual expolitation of children. You weren't specific, but if you are saying the morality of those crimes changes with the times, I respectfully disagree.

Cheers, Aidan
What baseball players have you been watching? The California Penal League? (To steal a line from the movie "Major League")

I'm not aware of any modern ball players committing murder or sexual acts with children!
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old August 15th, 2007, 12:44 AM
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Speaking of cricket, I did play that game many years ago in Barbados. I got on a beach hotel team for a couple of days. It was fun but I had trouble getting the knack of bowling (pitching) the ball in on one bounce. I was the only White guy on the team and a picture made the local paper the next day. That was the highlight of my foreign sporting career.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old August 15th, 2007, 06:00 AM
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so pretty soon you'll be in the cricket hall of fame
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old August 19th, 2007, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueliner

I'm not aware of any modern ball players committing murder or sexual acts with children!
That is true. Morality in general is on an upswing at our point in history. Most baseball scandals these days involve drugs instead of violence or sexual misbehavior, as in the past.

I believe the last child sexual abuse incident in baseball was Ed Bouchee in the 1950s, and that sort of thing was illegal then, but not scandalous like today.

Cheers, Aidan
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