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Old November 20th, 2007, 12:41 AM
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Default Journalists LOVE to Bash Cruising, Part II

This weekend, the Canadian version of 60 Minutes, a show called W5, did an hour-long expose on cruise-ship crime.

And what an awful job they did.

The focus was on sexual harassment/rape perpetrated on unsuspecting passengers by crew members.

Part of the show involved an undercover (no pun intended) investigation. An attractive "passenger" was sent in and the cameras rolled...

Not once did the show point out that if you chat with ship personnel, they will chat back.

In the ship's nightclub, a waiter chatted with the "bait" for a while, then openly asked her if he could sleep with her. She replies with a BIG SMILE "won't you get into trouble for doing that?" Good objective journalist. You're not leading him on further, are you? A normal person would be shocked and offended at this point, and would be, um.... leaving. Certainly not continuing to laugh, giggle and not even blink at the come-on.

I bet the show's producers told her to play along to get something nice and juicy. Let's set up the cruise staff, for a nice, negative attack on the cruise industry.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 06:38 AM
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This is a perfect example of how each person can watch, read what ever some thing and have a differant take on it. I saw the same thing and did not feel it was bashing. It is stating a fact that there is a problem, and I am one to say admit the problem and do something about it. We have larger and larger ships, often alot of alcohol and I am sorry, one time I was on a cruise with alot of drinking and security did a terrible job, and people got way out of hand. Who's fault was that? Obviously the passengers who were drunk, BUT, the cruise line needs to have the staff on board to deal with that. Does it happen on every cruise, not for me, that was the only one, but once was quite enough.

As for using bait, bottom line, is the crew member is not supposed to ask under any circumstances to sleep with a passenger. Part of the problem is that cruise lines state their stafff will never and never do this. This segmant showed, not only do they ask, but they ask quite quickly.

In the states they often use bait on TV MSNBC NEWS to catch child pedeophiles. Is this wrong? Some would argue that it is, you lured him and encouraged the offender on, forgetting he should not have been talking on line with a supposed 12 year old in the first place. There is a differance between talking back and chatting, even flirting a little, and asking to go have sex with some one. I have been flirted with in the work place, hit on, out right asked to have sex with a person, but I dont do it, I am at work..............

They also pointed out in this show, that since people let their own personal guards down, since there is often alot of partying and alcohol involved, that passengers also need to watch their own behaviour and not get blasted and then wonder why they were assaulted by other passengers ( who are also often drunk). Would you leave your purse with cash in it or expensive items at a public pool and walk away ? No of course not, so why do it on a ship?

Maybe this is just a male female thing of seeing things differantly, but I didnt find the news paper artickle bashing and this report in MY EYES was a good report and hopefully leads to changes for the better . Bottom line is nothing is ever perfect, and can always be improved upon.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 12:47 PM
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Once again Delfthuis, you completely miss the point.

Yes, the piece does address a flaw in cruise line policy and enforcement.
Should you watch out? Hell yes. The crewmember broke the rules, and should have been reported immediately. However, lots of money paid and no story.....

Journalism, by definition, is impartiality. Stories must be balanced by presenting all points of view. Journalists have a responsibility to maintain detachment, and not influence the so-called story in any way.

I recorded and ran the piece four times, just to be certain.

W5 broke every rule in the book.

They targeted a story with the full intention of sensationalizing it.

- Why not use a regular-looking female cruise passenger? Did they really need to use a sexy 20-year-old intern in a miniskirt. She fits the profile of the so-called "sex tourist"... a single looking for some exotic fun.

- was she told to intentionally chat up the crew? I think so. this is shown by my example in the OP. She continues to play the game, when a regular passenger would be offended or insulted.

- The young woman goes to great lengths to make it obvious that she is cruising alone. Does she chat with other passengers? We don't see it. Just crew.

And finally, if you facilitate a story hard enough, IT WILL HAPPEN. If they had just gone on the cruise without bait, maybe they would have gotten the story, perhaps not. But then, that would have been responsible journalism.

This story smells.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 01:11 PM
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No my dear you missed my point, and I simply do not agree with your point. ( which is perfectly fine, differant points of view and all) The point is for me, as some one on the job, you dont ask some one to have sex with you. You think it is wrong that the person led the staff on? Didnt walk away offended? Well, I think its wrong that some one working would do this, whether the person is drop dead beautiful or not. Its call bait for a reason, to see what the person will do when confronted with a situation. I am not stunning , quite the contrary, and I got hit on in an inapropriate way. I walked away, he knew I was ticked, but what if I had a little to much to drink or was a little naive or vulnerable?

When you are on the job, you dont do that. I have had lots of chatty wonderful crew members, some even flirt with either myself or my fella, but there is a differance between that and sex and other goings on. That show demonstrated , that while cruise lines state that crew do not have sex with PAX, thats it is stricktly against the rules, that not ony do they, but the actively participate in it. Small number I do believe, but one is to many.

If your logic stands, then bait programs to catch people stealing, child sex predators, bait cars and so on are all wrong?

As I said, each persons eyes see's things differantly. My eyes say, good, I like bait programs, because bottom line is, even when tempted, if your morals are where they should be, if you do what is right, if you follow the rules, you dont get caught! One of the rules is, dont have sex with PAX, clear enough. Yes, they may say be chatty, talk and so on, but there is a differance between that and sex. Not only that, but I believe that if a PAX is inapropriate, drunk, etc and wanting to "give it away" as a staff persn, you are responsale to say "Look, you have had to much to drink, let me get you some help to go back to your cabin", you dont say, Oh well she is drunk, lets go for it. On land, that can get you in a whole lott of trouble. If that happens to a crew, they need to protect them self legally and file an incident report satying this PAX was inapropriate and what you did about it, to prevent problems for you as a crew.

There is a growing problem with crime on ships, in my view, JUST AS THERE IS EVERYWHERE. Does it stop me from going NO WAY! But with more and more people, from all walks of life, there will be issues, and passengers and crew and cruise lines have to adapt and act accordingly. There is also the problem of passengers getting out of hand amongst each other. Its just something that needs to be talked about and dealt with. Peopl have to understand just because you are on a cruise, you dont let down your gaurd, your common sence.

In the mean time, my DS's very pretty GF will not be out alone at night with out some one with her.............nor would she be wandering the streets here at night alone either, even if that means I have to get out of bed to get her at work.........
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Old November 20th, 2007, 01:19 PM
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I repeat: It is patently WRONG for journalists to behave in such a manner.

You equate "Bait" with policing, not journalism, and even then, there is the ugly issue of entrapment to deal with.

Journalists are not policemen. Policemen have to be biased. They enforce the law.
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Old November 20th, 2007, 01:25 PM
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I know you think it is wrong. I just personally dont think it is wrong. Just as the bait catching out child sex preditors on MSNBC to me was great, they really exposed a problem, and how serious the problem was and how prevalent. Entrapment, I always chuckle when I hear that word................

But the show was not only about that, and it raised alot of good points to work with in order to solve problems, More people travel this way than ever before, ships are carrying more people now a days then in small towns, and you are in international waters,there needs to be an update to deal with crime on the high sea's so to speak. So that a cruise remains a great way to travel and have fun with family and friends alike!
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Old November 20th, 2007, 07:18 PM
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I saw the same show, and you both have valid points. However, what scared me most was how easy it was for the actual victims of the crimes to be hit on, followed to their cabin because crew members knew their cabin #, and assaulted right in their rooms. I suspect alcohol was probably an issue as well, but still, one can't be too careful.
The "journalist" plant aside, real people were assaulted, and or disappeared, with no recourse for their families. The US senate committee investigation of cruise lines is trying to rectify this "problem" that cruise lines are still denying is actually a problem, but at least they are doing something to protect innocent US victims. What is really scary, is that Canadian and other foreign passengers are NOT protected, and something really needs to be done about that.

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Old November 20th, 2007, 09:02 PM
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It's great that the US congress is going to protect us while we are on cruise ships. Who knows maybe some day they will keep us safe in our cities and towns. They might even be as bold as to keep the kids and teachers in our schools safe. Someday even our capitol city(DC) will be safe for our citizens to walk in all it's neighborhoods.
Today however I feel safer in a cruiseship tan I feel in one of our cities/

Manuel
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Old November 20th, 2007, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rollerdonna
I saw the same show, and you both have valid points. However, what scared me most was how easy it was for the actual victims of the crimes to be hit on, followed to their cabin because crew members knew their cabin #, and assaulted right in their rooms. I suspect alcohol was probably an issue as well, but still, one can't be too careful.
The "journalist" plant aside, real people were assaulted, and or disappeared, with no recourse for their families. The US senate committee investigation of cruise lines is trying to rectify this "problem" that cruise lines are still denying is actually a problem, but at least they are doing something to protect innocent US victims. What is really scary, is that Canadian and other foreign passengers are NOT protected, and something really needs to be done about that.

donna
agree completely.
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